Do you think our final exit from Vietnam was a "breach of faith?"

2015-04-28T20:10:26-04:00

What do you remember about our final exit from Vietnam?

In 1975 I was 13, but I remember Vietnam was a daily headline on the news (then ABC, CBS, and NBC). I have studied Vietnam extensively, in effort to try and figure out the most powerful nation and military on earth ultimately failed to meet our war aims. I have read Stuart Herrington's books, and I kinda understand his perspective, as we too left Iraqis who we promised we would protect....

Clearly, COL(R) Herrington is speaking from a personal perspective, but on a national level their were/are many emotions as well.

What are your thoughts on his belief that our exit was a "breach of faith?"

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/apr/27/vietnam-saigon-40years-war-colonel/

Army colonel sees exit as a ‘breach of faith’

Stuart Herrington had promised nobody would be left behind. But this was a presidential order.

Response by SGT Nia Chiaraluce made Apr 28 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-04-28T20:17:14-04:00

I vote yes based on exactly what he was describing here. A breach of faith being in his own word to his men that he promised nobody would be left behind. I am not sure how I would resolve the profound guilt that I am sure he has had to deal with, answer for and heal from over the years since. When the value of a man is contingent on their words and you go against promises made to get soldiers through because of a lawful order the internal conflict is nothing less than profound.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 28 at 2015 8:22 PM

2015-04-28T20:22:09-04:00

I was a Tet baby (1968) and only 7 years old. I have to sit back and learn from this thread. All I know is what I read and we have too many vets with real knowledge. This is going to be a great discussion.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Apr 28 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-04-28T20:37:26-04:00

COL Charles Williams, The breach of faith with Vietnam demonstrated America's 'lack of will" as evidenced by Congress failing to appropriate additional funding.

Allowing peace protests created that 'lack of will'.

The current situation in Baltimore is another demonstrated lack of will!

The military requires that someone be in charge! Our Nation and all of our Nation's government agencies need someone to be in charge. Until leaders across the Nation accept the responsibilities of protecting citizens rights, life, liberty and property we have a problem.

I personally feel that while peoples 'rights' are mandatory; respect for the rights of others should be sacrosanct and that; any and all who demand "their rights" should forcibly be compelled to observe the rights of others.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Apr 29 at 2015 1:21 AM

2015-04-29T01:21:51-04:00

We were there to keep the South Vietnamese free, Nixon was all about "Peace with honor" something he failed to achieve on both counts. We bailed out on people we were trying to help, no honor there. Peace, well how long did it take for Saigon to be subjugated by the north? The war continued after we bailed out.

The war may have been lost, but it was not the fault of the soldiers who fought and died there defending the freedom of those oppressed. This was not only a slap in the face to not only the Vietnamese but to the Hmong and the Degar, aka the Montagnard as well.

I also was 13 when this happened, and I distinctly remember my father's reaction to this "withdrawal". He was absolutely livid. So many lives wasted both young draftees and older senior NCO's. Why? That is something we can only speculate about, the absolute truth may eventually come out, but I doubt it.

I know this is a touchy subject and may evoke strong feelings but I would like to invite some of my contacts in on this.

So how about it
SSgt Private RallyPoint Member, SSG William Patton.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Apr 29 at 2015 1:24 AM

2015-04-29T01:24:38-04:00

Personally I believe that America's soldiers were sold down the river right from the first day of "The Vietnam Affair".

It is rather difficult to justify supporting the re-imposition of an European, Catholic, colonial regime on an Asiatic, non-Catholic, country and to do so in the names of "Freedom", "Democracy" and "Liberty" - but the US government did it.

It is rather difficult to claim that cancelling an election which you had already agreed to - simply because you were well aware that the people you wanted to win were going to get their clocks cleaned is "Upholding International Law" - but the US government did it.

It is rather difficult to say that supporting a bunch of venal, corrupt, murderous, thugs is "Fighting For The Rights Of The People" - but the US government did it.

Of course, lying about being attacked and ignoring the findings of your own intelligence apparatus simply because telling the truth and taking the findings of the people you are paying to tell you the real facts wouldn't let you do what you wanted to do isn't likely to win you any friends either - but the US government did that too.

If the US government had accepted what its own experts were telling it back in 1945 there would never have been a Vietnam War and the Vietnamese (even though under a "Communist" government) would be conducting a thriving trading relationship with the United States of America right now. As it is, there was a Vietnam War and the Vietnamese (even though under a "Communist" government) is conducting a thriving trading relationship with the United States of America right now.

The difference - about 282,000 "Allied" military deaths, about 444,000 "Communist" military deaths, and about 587,000 "civilian" deaths.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Apr 29 at 2015 7:20 AM

2015-04-29T07:20:46-04:00

Not only did we leave the Iraqi people we promised to help, and now they are being butchered. The Government wasted the lives, health and youth of so many of us the day we pulled out of Iraq. And POTUS gave us our second lost war. Then when you hear someone say we went for oil (which the US never got a drop) or (no WMDs) which there were. Now we have troops back there, its to little to late anyone who has been there knows Muslims do not respect any sign weakness and the US has just been screwing up by the numbers. We are a Joke

Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 29 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-04-29T07:52:46-04:00

COL Charles Williams From the authors point of view and those we supported, yes, it was and still is a breach of faith. Our Nations politicians who commit us to action need to be understand than when we go to war, it should be with the full nations backing, the loss of life and treasure are meaningful and our promises must be carefully chosen to us and our allies.
I look forward to hearing from Vets from the era.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 29 at 2015 10:53 AM

2015-04-29T10:53:12-04:00

With respect to the people that are commenting about the US's lack of will.
What I saw over there was a bunch of GIs that were 110% in and a host country that was pretty happy to sit back and watch us (and take our money).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 5:06 PM

2015-04-29T17:06:54-04:00

Well, I can see how he could feel that way. Especially when he made a promise that, in the end, he couldn't keep. I guess he learned that he shouldn't probably do that again. He gave them something they couldn't see. I hope everything came out okay for the ones that were left behind. I wasn't born yet, teehee, so I don't have 1st hand experience regarding Vietnam. I do believe, though, that this war was a war the Gov wanted, along with a few others like Bell Helicopter (they made a ton of money). So, I think the answer in this particular situation is yes. But do I feel like he should feel that way? No.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Apr 29 at 2015 5:45 PM

2015-04-29T17:45:57-04:00

The breach of faith was from the US congress failing to honor the US commitment agreed upon at the Paris peace talks to replace one for one military equipment to the ARVN to maintain their fighting forces. Congresses failure insured a communist victory to a war we won.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 29 at 2015 8:54 PM

2015-04-29T20:54:47-04:00

Our MO is to establish a democrat government, train an army, set up and democratic society and raising our hands in triumph. Unlike Iraq they had an insurgency and peer army to fight. One of our paradoxes of war is we spend so much on war, that we have to play the end game.

Response by SPC Robert Reynolds made May 12 at 2015 8:00 AM

2015-05-12T08:00:27-04:00

Seems like with the recent wars in the Middle East, the politicians learned nothing from the disaster they created in Vietnam. Let the military conduct and lead our war efforts and stop putting limitations on our personnel. When you go to war, go to win!