Do you think Promotion Boards focus too much on regulations and now enough on actual Soldier skills?

SGT Drue Rockwell — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 12:24:52 -0500

I've been sitting on boards recently (mock boards at platoon) and am hearing/finding that leadership cares more about how many numbers you can memorize of regs and such, than content. More importantly, only one serviceman knew anything about weapons, and only book knowledge at that. No, I don't expect them to be infantry proficient with all things weapons. But they knew little to nothing about weapons, first aid (it was scary), land navigation, field sanitation, or other field skills. The one soldier who did know something about weapons knew the content of every regulation he was asked about, but not the number associated.
My opinion and belief is that the number of a regulation is irrelevant to leadership. A soldier who knows the material is way ahead in my books. Also, more importantly, a soldier who knows regulation but nothing of basic soldier skills or why we do what we do is not ready to lead. However, I'm hearing that 1SGs and SGM/CSMs are failing guys for not knowing reg numbers, and passing people who know reg numbers but don't know actual soldiers skills. Am I missing something? How do we change this? And how can I prepare my soldiers for something that is focusing on the wrong things/not requiring the general skills?

Response by SGT Drue Rockwell made Dec 3 at 2014 12:26 PM

SGT Drue Rockwell — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 12:26:23 -0500

I apologize for the lack or eloquence/writing finesse but I'm using my phone to type.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2017 12:29 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 12:29:14 -0400

I've seen different boards from different CSM's I have served with. Most like to focus on regulations and the soldier knowing them. I have also seen CSM's focus on a varying spectrum of being a leader, to include APFT (270 or above), weapons assembly and dissassembly, knowing your job and regulations. I think if the leadership (PSG's and 1SG's) put a word in CSM's ear, he/she typically listens to the recommendations. Being a soldier and knowing your job is becoming a lost art in the Army. They focus too much on classes and regulations, rather than sitting down with the soldiers and showing them basic warrior tasks and drills. It's up to the NCO's now to make sure that it doesn't continue to die.

Response by 1SG George Gaither made Jul 2 at 2017 12:45 PM

1SG George Gaither — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 12:45:41 -0400

When a trooper is recommended,for promotion by his chain of command, they are certifying he or she is proficient in their MOS. SQT scores is also used for that purpose. Can a NCO be effective if they do not know regulations?

Response by PFC Sheila Harrison made Jul 2 at 2017 2:23 PM

PFC Sheila Harrison — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 14:23:37 -0400

The one promotion board I went to was down range and it was for my E4 rank!!! I lost to the other SM because his rifle was cleaner than mine. I found out later the SM had actually contacted his senator and was issued a new weapon because his wasn't good enough before the board. I went to a second board and got my E4. There should not be a board for E4, it was just bullshit. My first Sargent was a douche bag that was responsible for another SM who committed suicide on suicide watch because her roommate didn't secure her weapon. Now she's dead, the 1st Sargent still got his Bronz star. Everyone hated him. He constantly took the TOC vehicle to go eat at liberty base with the birds and stars

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2017 3:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 03:28:09 -0400

I dont believe in boards at all. Soldiers who are good at them make rank while the soldiers who know their trade and actually show proficiency at leading soldiers are sidelined. Someday I hope the Army goes to a resume and interview system... below the CSL level.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 15 at 2019 10:14 AM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:14:06 -0400

Real world problems drifting backwards into the military. I never thought of it as a job per say, and that’s where I think there’s a bit of a disconnect. We try and make basic easier and more user friendly, why? If you join the Army you might have a fancy job title, but you still joined a branch that is first and foremost a direct combat entity. Every job is directly related to combat operations or supporting troops who have that ability. Even with that fancy MOS you might end up at a hot FOB. Which is why every one in the USA and Marines go right to AIT after basic, regardless of MOS. If every Marine a rifleman is true then they train their first year like it is and then you go off to your A school. Depending on MOS perhaps initial enlistments increase. Other than that I have no input on boards, armed services is what it is and join the Army for college tuition or join the Navy and see the world mottos set up unreasonable expectations imo.

Response by 1LT Benjamin Flasher made Sep 15 at 2019 1:09 PM

1LT Benjamin Flasher — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 13:09:28 -0400

This is quite an old thread, but seeing as it popped up on my feed, here are my two cents.

I personally sponsored an E4 during a promotion board just last month (extenuating circumstances called for it). From my observations, the focus for aspiring Soldiers to become NCOs is that they know how/where to find the answers. One of the senior enlisted provided insight to my Soldier that he will never memorize everything, but he should be able to know how to find the answer to just about anything. This starts with knowing what regs to look in. I wholly agree. As a leader, this shows potential for growth and speaks far more about a Soldier than their ability to memorize the verbatim contents of a reg that is likely to change. Obviously, there is a sweet spot between both extremes and that is why board members are allowed freedom to tailor their questions to the individual being evaluated.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2019 4:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 16:41:07 -0400

Look up sgt morales board. I think if there is a board, this is what it should be lkke

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 5:47 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 17:47:23 -0400

I agree with you! At the last boards that I ran, I asked the NCO to recite the NCO Creed and stoped them and asked them to relate something in their career that shows they understand and follow the Creed. Very few could answer it because the memorized it and had no idea of the meaning. I always liked giving the soldier in the hot seat a life line. Their first line leader should be there with them and I gave them one chance to get the answer from their “Sergeant”. Like they should in real life.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2019 10:32 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:32:33 -0400

Very much so. Despite stellar OERs (top 25% for the past 3) and volunteered for multiple TDY opportunities as a reservist, I was a non-select for O-3 because my undergraduate transcripts were uploaded to my board file a few days after it locked. Since I'll be considered for above zone promotion, by the time I pin on CPT, I'll have over 6 years of experience as a 1LT! I understand my deficiency and abiding by the regulation with timeliness and order, but the rigid bureaucracy of promotion boards is sometimes the reason why we promote the bad seeds and fail to promote the deserving.

Response by SPC John Decker made Jun 23 at 2020 6:34 AM

SPC John Decker — Tue, 23 Jun 2020 06:34:44 -0400

Maintain the way you train those under you. Inform them of what you are seeing at the Boards. Make sure they all have access to the regs. Identify and encourage those, that might wish to make a career of the military, to study the regs to make it more likely to pass the boards they will face.

Response by MAJ Geiter Dunn made Jun 23 at 2020 5:40 PM

MAJ Geiter Dunn — Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:40:58 -0400

Ahahaha. Man is this accurate. Isn't just the boards. Had an ADCM who, in the QTB would stop everything and ask Co Cdr's things like "What does the paragraph 8-14 cover in FM 5-(whatever). Of course there was usually no answer. Then he'd berate the CPT. saying stupid stuff like "How can you be effective in command if you don't even know what the FMs require of commanders?" Like we're supposed to memorize which paragraph said what.
Emphasis on memorization of completely unimportant stuff like that is worse than stupid; it impacts being able to do the unit's real mission.

Response by SPC James Cooke made Jul 7 at 2020 1:23 PM

SPC James Cooke — Tue, 07 Jul 2020 13:23:25 -0400

I've failed boards because I didn't know the regs by heart. I excelled at my job which should have been the highlight. The only time when I was in front of a board was when I was at a Cook of the Year competition at Fort Hood. I was asked Army regulation questions and Culinary Specialist (92G) questions. Still didn't pass, but I felt like I was heaven.