Do you think some soldiers stay in service because of self-limiting beliefs like they wouldn't be good at anything else?

CPT Christopher Coker — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:03:09 -0400

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Oct 30 at 2017 10:21 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:21:19 -0400

Monday just like another Saturday for me !

Response by SGT Jim Arnold made Oct 30 at 2017 10:21 AM

SGT Jim Arnold — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:21:30 -0400

I found the opposite more than true. While in the Army I became extremely good at what I was supposed to know and do. I got a shock after getting out

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Oct 30 at 2017 10:33 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:33:11 -0400

Why would I want something else? Actually, after one injury the state did extensive aptitude testing and determined Soldier and Police Officer to be my bests fields. If I enjoy it why go sit behind a desk

Response by SSG James Behnke made Oct 30 at 2017 10:34 AM

SSG James Behnke — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:34:35 -0400

No. I think soldiers realize how much benefit there is to completing their service.

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made Oct 30 at 2017 10:52 AM

Col Rebecca Lorraine — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:52:30 -0400

Absolutely! The security of employment, healthcare, and their inability to qualify for occupations they have trained for in the military make it almost impossible for them to leave. The known for the unknown.

Response by SPC Robert Coventry made Oct 30 at 2017 10:56 AM

SPC Robert Coventry — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:56:06 -0400

I absolutely think there are some soldier, sailor and marines that stay in because they are afraid of making it outside of the military. I don't agree with this notion but i am sure there are military members that feel this way. They nee support from organizations and sites like Rally Point.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Oct 30 at 2017 11:20 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:20:15 -0400

I think it's a combination of self-limiting beliefs as well as what leaders and mentors may tell you. I hear constantly "what are you gonna do outside?", "hah, grass ain't greener on the other side", "you can lose your job", etc. Not really words of motivation in any way.

I was told similar before I separated as well. Now I make more than a Colonel.

Response by SPC Paul Brown made Oct 30 at 2017 11:25 AM

SPC Paul Brown — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:25:31 -0400

I really cant imagine that.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Oct 30 at 2017 11:45 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:45:39 -0400

Sure. Happens outside the service as well. People tend to want to stay in their comfort zone. You know the process, you know the players, and you know the usual outcomes. Problem is you'll hit a point when you can't do it anymore for some reason. Then what? My advice is to not dig a knowledge/perception hole that's hard to climb out of. At best, age will be what gets you first. But it will get you. To me, the notion of limiting myself is boring. Too many things to do. The real thing is to pick one and move out.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Oct 30 at 2017 11:47 AM

SFC Terry Murphy — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:47:26 -0400

I reupped not because I didn't think I could be good at other things, but because I didn't know what else I would enjoy doing as much as being a Paratrooper!

Response by SFC Andrew Miller made Oct 30 at 2017 11:50 AM

SFC Andrew Miller — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:50:04 -0400

Definitely so. I think this is more the exception than the rule, but there are definitely those that think this way. When I was at the 12-13 year mark, I had the option of re-enlisting indefinite and getting promoted to SFC or getting out.

I was in a very toxic command climate at the time and knew that I would be fine if I got out then. The issue I had at the time, was that my family and not just I would have been affected by that decision. I was in Iraq at the time, and since they still had stop loss in place, I would have finished the deployment and only been able to come home long enough to out process and be discharged if I chose to go that path.

I know of others who battled similar decisions as well. There is a difference between knowing you only have to take care of yourself and taking care of a family.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Oct 30 at 2017 11:52 AM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:52:24 -0400

yup....That is one of the greatest lies we service members tell ourselves. When we get out the truth is that we are more prepared than anyone else....period! We are more well rounded, able to deal with different personalities due to being in situations and experiencing different styles of leadership. We have had many levels of mentorship. We have been through the ringer on so many levels. Gotten up early, went to bed late. Been around the world and seen different kinds of people and cultures. Had tough times and the best of times. We are more prepared than anyone period...and we just have to take time and look back to see that truth. Everyone of us thanks to the military have lived many lives rolled up into one. That is actually all it takes...just sitting down and looking at all the thing you have done in the military. It will blow your mind when you do.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 30 at 2017 11:54 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:54:37 -0400

CPT Christopher Coker "Do you think *some* soldiers stay in service because of self-limiting beliefs like they wouldn't be good at anything else?"

Absolutely and many see it as a job with security as well, not a calling.
I can do it.
Im not set to be fired.
I get paid ok.
I don't know what I can do on the out side with those same points, think I'll stay here till they tell me to leave.

Response by SSG Buddy Kemper made Oct 30 at 2017 12:00 PM

SSG Buddy Kemper — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:00:27 -0400

I think that's a part of it, Sir, truly. We have to also factor that they become good at what they do and fall in love with the job and people around them. The best work I ever did was training and encouraging younger troops& NCOs ( and several young LTs near the end). And my career was 3 quarters over before I feel I hit my stride. Good question and look forward to other responses. Airborne!!!

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Oct 30 at 2017 12:07 PM

AA Joseph Moody — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:07:03 -0400

Imagine this: You have about 4 months of service left and nothing lined up outside , and unsure employment prospects at best and you see a homeless man that is still wearing some issue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2017 12:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:10:31 -0400

Yeah when I was a 13B a lot of them would say this was all they knew. It was sad really.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Oct 30 at 2017 12:31 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:31:51 -0400

I think that “some” have heard the horror stories of trying to get a job on the outside. It scares them.

Truthfully, there are “some” service members who are more successful in the military than they are on the outside.

But for most, the military gives them great skills that are very useful on the outside and allows them to be more competitive than their non military peers.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Oct 30 at 2017 12:55 PM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:55:49 -0400

I doubt soldiers have self-limiting beliefs; soldiers believe in themselves, yet they need to be challenged. There has to be a purpose; a compelling reason for change in a soldier's mind, heart and soul to take him away from his or her passion; a standard of pride, dignity, respect and self-esteem. (Sentence too long)

When performance appraisals were over-inflated in the Army and it seemed as though raters and senior raters had favorites who, without effort, saturated the top 5% of the profile, leaving the rest to share 'Center of Mass' or get kicked into the BCoM block. It left many feeling like outcasts and deprived. A few sensed prejudice. These are situations that lead soldiers to yarn for change in their lives. Another situation would be when soldiers are ignored or are constantly underrated.

Response by LCpl Donald Faucett made Oct 30 at 2017 12:59 PM

LCpl Donald Faucett — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:59:16 -0400

Some, other got a gravy train job and several year vested

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Oct 30 at 2017 1:11 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:11:16 -0400

Absolutely they do and the benefits too. I had several NCO's that occupied slots that I wanted and I retired because no one would budge.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2017 2:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:19:31 -0400

Yes and no. Do some soldiers stay in because they self-limit themselves, yes. Do some see their buddies get out and fail at life and constantly call them begging for money or to cosign on a loan because their plan(s) fall apart and when you say you can't help you out they stop talking to you and thus are convinced that the Army isn't a bad thing and decide to stay in.... absolutely.

There's a lot of reasons soldiers stay in, and yeah, some stay in because they sell themselves short. We would be here all day if we tried to list all the reasons why soldiers stay in.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2017 2:21 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:21:52 -0400

Yes!

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Oct 30 at 2017 3:47 PM

SGT Philip Roncari — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:47:43 -0400

I'd have to say in my case the opposite was true,my first job on getting out was a laborer digging ditches,I dug much better ditches in the Army,seriously though the Service gives you a much better understanding of how the World works and how to be successful no matter what the obstacles

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Oct 30 at 2017 4:09 PM

MSgt John Taylor — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:09:12 -0400

As a young Airman we would say that NCO stood for “No Chance on the Outside “

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2017 4:11 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:11:15 -0400

Idk what I would have done or be or do if I wasn't in. It actually gave me the start I needed. It's an exp I wouldn't give for the world until I hit 20years

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Oct 30 at 2017 4:30 PM

LTC Russ Smith — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:30:46 -0400

I am listed in the Marines in 1980. In 1983 when I got out I never thought I would go back to the military. I liked the guys I served with. I found it at the staff sergeant and gunnery Sergeant levelthe vast majority of them were just abusive pricks. At some point I decided I might try to go back into the Marines as an officer and see what that was like although I'm not quite sure why anymore. When I went to the officer recruiterI explained that I hadthree years of enlisted time, was a former in Seo, I had a GT score at that time of 137 I believe the max at that time was 140. And this asshole just kept telling me well we only take the best. I finally got up told him to shove it up his ass and told him he was the reason I got out of the Marine Corps to begin with and left the office. The kernel called me a few days later based on the forms I had filled out I told him what it happened and I hung up on him.I ended up joining the Army National Guard locally. There were no marine units in my hometown.I joined ROTC and eventuallywent from sergeant or as I like to say I was demoted from sergeant a second lieutenant 1986. In 1992 at an opportunity to go on active duty as a captain. I took it I never looked back. I stayed because I felt once I had 10 years inthat's what I really needed to make the decision. And I like the army at that point. Once I made major I came to hate it. The lack of integrity embedded in the politics of the field Great Lakes was nearly unbearable. First it stopped being fun but it was still rewarding. It eventually stopped being rewarding.I volunteered for Iraq in 2004and served over there completely and is far away from the National Guard as possible. That was actually rewarding even though my tour was cut short due to a TBI in a rocket attack.I commanded a battalion and that was rewarding and I especially enjoyed being the number three guy at Camp Roberts California.By the time I finished I had a little over 26 years of total service and a little over 21 of those active-duty. But assist 8 out of the last ten years was about the retirement and I counted down the days like a convict.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Oct 30 at 2017 5:01 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:01:04 -0400

I hate to say it, but yes! I know I did. I was unemployed, working as a temp, no education, living at mom's house at 24. Twenty-five years later, age 50, home-owner, some college, and unemployed...again! Since then, age 57, I now have a Master’s degree in Healthcare Informatics, left my last job after six years, and...unemployed...again!!

Response by CPL Jack Baker made Oct 30 at 2017 5:16 PM

CPL Jack Baker — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:16:10 -0400

Or they have a job where they get to shoot people and not go to jail...

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 30 at 2017 5:49 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:49:26 -0400

Institutionalization is a terrible thing....

Response by SGT Joyce Jones made Oct 30 at 2017 7:38 PM

SGT Joyce Jones — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:38:34 -0400

Most definitely. But, with the right mentoring they can make the right decision for them.

Response by SSG Marshall Paul made Oct 30 at 2017 7:45 PM

SSG Marshall Paul — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:45:40 -0400

"Too lazy to work, too chicken to steal." From the best SMAJ, the best soldier, JC Crist, WW2, Korea, RVN. Always 11B. Was my SFC at Bragg, in 72, had been courtmartialed, busted from E-8 to E-1, working his way back up.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 8:33 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 08:33:11 -0400

Yes, I’m literally at that point no. Made the decision to retire, but my lack of confidence in my ability to gain good employment outside of the military is surprising to me. Institutionalism i guess

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 12:53 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:53:42 -0400

I believe that this is very true. Many people limit themselves based upon erroneous beliefs and self-doubt though, not just people in the military. I, on the other hand, thought I would do great as a civilian when I got out of the Active Army in 1989. Didn't work out so well for me. I can't count the number of jobs I went through and I never found my niche or any success in civilian life. Finally made AGR after trying for 20+ years. I guess this is where I'm supposed to be.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Oct 31 at 2017 2:39 PM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 14:39:41 -0400

I will say that has been the case in more than a few service members. Another reason could be that they get a paycheck and a place to live, they think that this is much easier than getting out.

Response by CPO Ed Hoover made Jan 13 at 2018 6:41 PM

CPO Ed Hoover — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:41:14 -0500

I know 3 guys, that got out, and in 6 to 9 months, all 3 were back in. Since less than 1% of all military, stay in to retirement, I'd say most that get out, stay out.

Response by CPT Scott Sharon made Jan 15 at 2018 9:23 AM

CPT Scott Sharon — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 09:23:50 -0500

Unfortunately, that may be true for some but it should be the opposite. My time in the service was the most valuable training in my career.

Response by MCPO Mark Burns made Jan 15 at 2018 11:48 AM

MCPO Mark Burns — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:48:01 -0500

Some do it for god and country. Some do it because that's what they wanted to do , like father like son or daughter. Some do it for the guaranteed paycheck and not worried about getting fired for minimal effort applied.

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 15 at 2018 12:39 PM

SPC David Willis — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 12:39:10 -0500

I think us who got out sometimes think the same things. Im not a millionaire but I do alright for myself and I still catch myself thinking "man the Army was the only thing I was ever good at." I think for most of us we think that because we were in our prime mentally and physically. Not all of us mind you but if our bodies were machines many of us were basically operating at peak efficiency.

Response by CPO Michael Hatten made Jan 16 at 2018 11:30 AM

CPO Michael Hatten — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 11:30:42 -0500

I think change is scary for anyone and that leaving a job you're good at for a new career is difficult.
When I was in the service, career counselors used to use that fear when they "counseled" you to re-enlist. They would describe the benefits of the service while they told you how cold and cruel the civilian world was.

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Jan 18 at 2018 10:34 AM

SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:34:28 -0500

I stayed to retire, but often I am asked what I thought of that? Well, I usually say that "I am glad I stayed and retired but if I had it to do over again with what I know now, I'd have gotten out at the end of my first hitch". That being said, actually I think that where someone encounters reluctance in the civilian market is when "the boss" is actually intimidated by a military type, or if they are involved in less than totally ethical conduct, the military type person is seen as less likely to "go along with" whatever it is... Personally I saw both types in my civilian life after retirement from the Army.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Jan 18 at 2018 10:44 AM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:44:54 -0500

I stayed in the Army Reserves after completing my full military commitment as the employment prospects were less than certain. After obtaining a career position I chose to stay in the Reserves for the Retirement Benefits that it provided as well as the comradeship I experienced. Add also that the Federal Government was loosening the rules on 401K's and implementing a 407K program that HR could not comfortably explain to me. As for self limiting beliefs; I've gotten those more from perspective employers in the 1980's than from myself.

Response by SGT Lee Oien made Jan 22 at 2018 11:57 PM

SGT Lee Oien — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 23:57:22 -0500

Sure... but its seems like you are kind of implying that doesn't happen in the civilian world. It does to great extent. Many folks perform quite well, but far under their potential, because they are uncomfortable with change, lack the confidence, a role model, lack the drive to develop new skills, or just the dream of doing something more. Others, are perfectly happy and content life with punching in, meeting expectations, and punching out.

Response by SrA Andrew George made Jan 25 at 2018 3:35 PM

SrA Andrew George — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 15:35:48 -0500

As an Airman that's left the service for family reasons, I can tell you that the majority of the civilian work force issues, is a lack of options available and/or businesses claiming veteran preference and not actually following through. I'd LOVE to go back active duty, and plan to try my hardest to make it happen, although due to my age, financials and other factors, I have to accept that it probably won't happen. The civilian world is cut throat, and I've been struggling in it since 06. I can see that fear being a possibility, although I believe there is a larger concern pertaining to that lack of available options being the main worry. My hands on experience has been overlooked on more then one occasion, and a degree in a background of no relevance chosen instead.

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Jan 26 at 2018 7:21 PM

MAJ Norm Michaels — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:21:28 -0500

I know many employers that openly prefer veterans.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Jan 26 at 2018 10:25 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:25:40 -0500

I'm not really sure the belief that they wouldn't be good at anything else should be described as self-limiting. Even the most basic of MOS encompasses a wider scope of tasks than most comparable civilian jobs. (That particular discovery is hind sight for me.) Most people stay in a career field because they like it or feel it's something they're best suited for. I wouldn't call that 'limiting' per se. I found the civilian world to be far more restrictive in what I was allowed to do. I was astounded the first time I heard a civilian say "That's not my job!" when given an assignment. If you get buried with stuff late in the day, you seldom see any civilian colleague jump in to help out. I even had union members complain that I made them look bad because I was always looking for a better, easier, more effective way to do the job. As for looking out for your coworkers who are having a bad time for whatever reason, forget it. I now find some reassurance in the knowledge that if I'm ever broke and hungry, I can knock on the door of my worst enemy from my service days. He will most likely feed me, put me up for the night, and send me on my way the next morning with a couple of bucks in my pocket. Given a choice of working with a veteran I dislike or a civilian I do like, I will take the veteran every time. Would I make a career of the military if given a chance to "do over"? Probably not. I have a few personal characteristics that wouldn't have meshed well for too much longer. I'm a born smart-ass with some degree of contempt for useless PC rules. *grin* Sorry about the ramble, but it all seems to fit together in my head.

Response by LTC Robert Gray made Jan 27 at 2018 5:28 AM

LTC Robert Gray — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 05:28:40 -0500

I am having problems framing my response to this issue. Personally, when the decision was made for me to leave active duty, I started developing a plan. I identified a career that was 1. in demand. 2. Dovetailed with my military skills. 3. Identified a training program whose graduates where in demand. Those SMs who follow this process are generally successful in their transition. My Son and God son followed that same path. They are both highly successful in their second careers.

If you look at your soldiers you will see those who just float along without a plan. Many SSGs fall into that category. They become what I called duty NCOs. Had a neighbor who was one. He was in an MOS in which he should have retired as an SFC had he done the minimum. He asked me for advice, upon reviewing his record I found that he had not done any military education beyond the minimum. He had not worked on an advanced degree. He is the type who stayed because it was easier. Rather than doing what was necessary he always looked for an angle.

I think, except those with some disabilities, that soldiers who excelled in their service, will be successful in the civilian world. Those who where adaptable and innovative will perform in the same manner in what ever field of endeavor they pursue.

The one thing you must expect is that you will not step into a high paying position and will suffer some fiscal difficulty when you leave the service. Military pay and benefits are better than most civilian jobs.

Response by 1SG Mark Reed made Jan 27 at 2018 4:46 PM

1SG Mark Reed — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:46:18 -0500

Soldiers can out perform the average civilian any day of the week. I think 1st and 2nd term troops would be surprised with all the opportunities waiting for them. Just remember, it's hard to find a retirement program that can equal the military. If you decide to ETS, think it through.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Jan 27 at 2018 7:44 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 19:44:10 -0500

Yep...it kept me "employed" for 25 years. Before joining the military, I had been living with mom, a high school grad, and unemployed. Since leaving the military, seven years ago, I am now a college graduate, 33 years older,...and unemployed!

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Jan 28 at 2018 11:25 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Sun, 28 Jan 2018 23:25:45 -0500

Perhaps some do, but then again, most stay in because they are convinced that are called and making a difference. In reality though it is the same in civilian life. I have encountered many people in my life who could do better, but were limited by a lack of confidence in themselves, so it is not a military specific issue.

Response by SSgt Kurt Behnke made Feb 18 at 2018 6:34 AM

SSgt Kurt Behnke — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 06:34:23 -0500

i think one of the biggest lies recruiters tell civilians since Napoleon, China or Islam in marketing and movies is "for God and Country"...99% of recruits "go-in" and "do-time" because they had nothing else to do out of high school and could not pay for college or if a commitment to the military was based on after College; God or Country had little to do with it. (doing it for God then would be Hippocratic as Jihadist acting as if God could not do it alone if wanted it to be done) Most forget their pre-military mind and situation as soon as they hit BMT and get into their own envelope forever after. Times of War are TIMES of WAR, we haven't had A World WAR since WW2. We have only had politics as usual for financial benefit of Economic or political crisis's, regardless how you justify a yellow border Flag or Congressional approval for allocation of funds to bomb or shoot someone, even with a volunteer militia. The biggest flaw with recruits, thus later "lifers" is staying inside their own envelope during their first, second, third or more tours, those that are functional in the military and those that are functional outside of it in the civilian community concurrently are the Best of the Best, and do not have any problems once leaving the military back into the real world, reality of having to get meals each day as a civilian; it is a struggle having to conform to doing HR of your own without a career planner, EOT or housing office... USA Military training creates the best in the world, its not done for you once you "get out" unless you crutch on the taxpayers for support returning to Gov programs, grants, "your network" etc as you know how to do conditioned in active duty;(Pavlov) it is much more difficult in the civilian world without it. The Kudo is you have an EXPERIENCE step up ahead of those that only went to college/University, dont be afraid, you can do it, some of you during combat had the hell of duty, we thank you for doing your job you agreed to do, the rest had the easy life in active duty, without worry as we, the civilian business owners and Corporate taxpayers (the first money earners) paid your Treasury Department paycheck each month, now you can make your mission funded by yourself and start over mentally back at 18 to do it, but with the best training and experience possible to man or woman, YOU ARE THE BEST, dont waste it.