Do you think that we will see more UCMJ for Contempt Towards Officials (Article 88) in today's divided country under a Trump administration?

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 09:12:13 -0500

A while back, a fellow Warrant Officer posted a question asking if we should hold people accountable in cases of disrespect towards the President. We saw very few cases of this during the last 8 years.
In my last 4 duty stations covering Pres. Obama's time in office I have noticed a right-leaning Army and wonder if we will see more Article 88 prosecutions under our new CIC.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Nov 10 at 2016 9:17 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 09:17:25 -0500

Likely more of an "informal" issue than anything formal. This is more of a behind closed doors issue than anything anyone wants escalated to CM. Even standard "disrespect" is normally dealt with personally rather than creating a paper-trail.

Response by PO2 Robert Aitchison made Nov 10 at 2016 9:20 AM

PO2 Robert Aitchison — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 09:20:40 -0500

Honestly I think simple disrespect towards the President will be the least of our worries. If Trump follows through on his campaign promises I think you'll see service members (both officers and enlisted) refusing orders (they view as unlawful) at an alarming rate and it could even get to the point where we see an attempted coup or even a second civil war.

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 10 at 2016 9:29 AM

SFC George Smith — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 09:29:01 -0500

this time ... yes...
because the troops are not the same as they were when Jimmy "Peanut" Carter and Bill Clinton was in office
They have little to No trust in the "CIC" based on the information being circulated... and they are not willing to give him a chance to prove him self...

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Nov 10 at 2016 10:08 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:08:39 -0500

In 28 years I never saw or heard first hand a charge of, nor conviction for Art 88

Response by PO1 Steven Kuhn made Nov 10 at 2016 10:09 AM

PO1 Steven Kuhn — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:09:10 -0500

/We live in a time where our freedom of speech and expression has been misrepresented into "freedom to live in the world of our choosing". That being said, while I disagreed with the actions of the current CIC, I did respect the office. Freedom of speech is important, but as active duty military we have a responsibility to follow orders and preserve the chain of command.

Response by PO3 Leroy Leftwich made Nov 10 at 2016 11:19 AM

PO3 Leroy Leftwich — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 11:19:51 -0500

When I was active duty the UCMJ was to be adhered to period. My opinion was not important to the mission. Following orders was. It amazes me that this is a question on this site. now to qualify, if ask my opinion. I gave it with the understanding my orders were paramount. And when off duty, the UCMJ wasn't.

Response by PO3 Leroy Leftwich made Nov 10 at 2016 11:19 AM

PO3 Leroy Leftwich — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 11:19:51 -0500

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2016 12:53 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:53:47 -0500

I certainly hope not. I think there may have been more issues with comments about Obama but who knows.

Response by MSgt Richard Randall made Nov 10 at 2016 12:58 PM

MSgt Richard Randall — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:58:21 -0500

The question made me chuckle. I heard quite a few folks of the commissioned persuasion speak rather ill of “Jimmah” in the late 70s… especially after the Desert One debacle.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Nov 11 at 2016 8:15 AM

SFC Marcus Belt — Fri, 11 Nov 2016 08:15:30 -0500

Most of the situations I have personally witnessed regarding disrespect towards President Obama mostly had to do with omitting the "President" before his surname, which, if I'm not going to allow a junior Soldier to address me by last name only, I have to correct addressing the President in that way.

Regarding actual disrespect, I believe that leaders have done a good job of parsing the difference between disrespect and protected speech under the First Amendment. Oh yes, Constitutional protections still apply to service members.

It is my right as a citizen (and a voter!) to say: "I disagree with the President's policy on X." That is reasonable and protected.

I cannot say: "The President is [insert perjorative]!" Disrespect.

President-Elect Trump will be the fifth Commander-in-Chief under whom I've served, and generally, professionals remain professional.

Response by SGT John Wesley made Nov 11 at 2016 10:48 PM

SGT John Wesley — Fri, 11 Nov 2016 22:48:08 -0500

I have to chuckle here... I've read the comments and have to remind some that only a short while ago you were condemning President Obama. In fact, you only called him Obama. So let's not point fingers at our liberal members.

I served under 2 Conservatives and a liberal, and never did I question the validity of any of them. I took an oath, and like most of us, stuck to it on good faith. I hope that these fine service members of this generation will do the same.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Dec 21 at 2016 4:20 PM

SFC Stephen King — Wed, 21 Dec 2016 16:20:23 -0500

Great question time will determine.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Aug 16 at 2017 9:12 AM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:12:56 -0400

A military that has relinquished discipline is nothing more than an armed mob. UCMJ must be upheld and prosecuted when violations occur.