Do you think the American Legion and the VFW need to adapt to the time?

2013-11-19T09:52:35-05:00

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</font><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">I am recently retired from the Army. I was looking forward
to joining the American Legion and the VFW, which I did. What I did not expect
to find is how closed minded and out of touch these organizations are with this
current generation of soldiers. I would like to know if others feel the same
way and how they might suggest a way for these Organizations to 'get in
touch"?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></font></font></font></p><font color="#000000" size="3" face="Times New Roman">

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Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2013 10:01 AM

2013-11-19T10:01:10-05:00

I have not had many dealings with these organizations. How are they out of touch? What would you do to keep them relevant with the new generation of Veterans?

Response by SGT Thomas Sullivan made Nov 19 at 2013 3:18 PM

2013-11-19T15:18:12-05:00

I can second this SGT Hiller, these are the very same reasons why I have been hesitant to join these organizations. Whenever I go to visit a station, I am treated as some young kid who does not belong.

Response by PO2 Robert Sturgis made Nov 19 at 2013 4:53 PM

2013-11-19T16:53:17-05:00

I understand your questions and concerns. I initially joined the VFW and Legion when I first got out of the navy and entered college. I visited the local posts and had bad experiences so didn't renew my membership until 8 years later. I got active in the VFW at the Post level and now I'm Sr. Vice Commander for the state of Maryland. That said, there are a lot of members that do not reach out or welcome our current generation of soldiers for various reasons (none are valid). There is movement in the VFW to change these situations but it takes time and involvement. I had some rough roads, but change can happen if you want it to. Feel free to contact me if you have any problems or need assistance, I'll do what I can.

Response by PFC Norman Hanley made Nov 19 at 2013 5:17 PM

2013-11-19T17:17:31-05:00

I have been to the VFW, DAV, AL, IOOB, etc. Basically the feeling I get is... Your to young to be here. Or Yours was not a "Real" War from the older veterans there.
Hence for now I am sticking with The Marine Corp League.

Response by CW2 David Theriault made Nov 20 at 2013 6:39 AM

2013-11-20T06:39:51-05:00

I went online and signed up with the VFW last year.. Then realized the "post" meetings are held in a conference room of a retirement community... I never went to a meeting and will let my one year membership expire...

Response by SGT Tj West made Nov 20 at 2013 4:10 PM

2013-11-20T16:10:08-05:00

I have never been a member of the American Legion, but did join the VFW shortly after moving back to Madison following my ETS in 2004. At some point I also joined DAV, but cannot recall how long ago that was. My experience with most veterans organizations is that, from a social standpoint, although their value to younger veterans varies widely on a case-by-case basis the majority appear to be largely organized, operated, and managed by members who are a bit older. Some of this has to do with factor such as that fraternal organizations were more popular during previous generations, older individuals tend to have more time and disposable income to devote to such activities, and there were simply less social options available during previous times. I am a member of other non-military organizations that are dealing with the same issue.

All that being said, I do a fair amount of VA benefits work in my law practice. Occasionally I am contacted by a potential client who wants help with a VA claim, but it's clear to me that he/she really doesn't need or want a lawyer. In those cases organizations such as AM, VFW, and DAV can prove to be invaluable as they each maintain staffs of individuals who are qualified and/or accredited to assist veterans with benefits issues. I have mixed feelings on the issue. On the one hand, I'm very much in favor of any organization that fills a legitimate need for veterans. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I don't mind keeping my membership with the VFW and DAV -- even if I'm not going to get any social benefit out of it at least my dues are being put to good use. That being said, I think its unfortunate that the social value -- which is a real and often missing value in society -- no longer seems to exist at the level it once did.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Nov 20 at 2013 4:58 PM

2013-11-20T16:58:17-05:00

There is no doubt that organizations like the VFW and American Legion are out of touch with Post 9/11 Veterans.  I'm deeply involved in the Veterans' Community out here in Pittsburgh because of this.  When I got out in 2008, I went to a Legion post to try and find some Veterans I could talk to and spend time with.  What I found was a group of guys smoking and drinking beer.  My first thought was that I didn't just get out of the service to pickle my liver and get lung cancer.  With that thought in mind, I started a Social Networking organization here in the area for Post 9/11 Veterans.  <div><br></div><div>I too felt that "You are too young" vibe and seen that they are ran by older Veterans who are out of touch with the "always connected" Veterans of today.  There are things like RallyPoint, my organization Steel City Vets and smartphone apps like POS-REP that are trying to bridge this gap.  </div><div><br></div><div>I guess my basic point to this rant is that yes these organizations are out of touch but thankfully, people are trying to change this but as we all know, change doesn't come fast.</div>

Response by LTC Monte Anderson made Nov 20 at 2013 5:39 PM

2013-11-20T17:39:17-05:00

I belong to VFW Post 901 in Elmira NY. My impression is that the VFW has a very real presence in Washington. At the Post level they are out of touch. They are not attracting the younger vets. The posts that have vets sitting around drinking and smoking are actually do exactly what their membership wants. They want a place they can go to with other vets and sit around and smoke. They play bingo too.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2013 6:43 PM

2013-11-20T18:43:50-05:00

Yeah I noticed that too. I think we need to place some recent Vets in charge of those posts and they need to get with the program.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Nov 20 at 2013 7:06 PM

2013-11-20T19:06:20-05:00

I was a member of the VFW, never really attended meetings, considering I didn't know what it was their for or what did they really do. How ever to my surprise one day a couple of members did come to my home and delivered me a nice turkey with everything that was needed to make a Thanksgiving dinner, something much appreciated at that time. So as I read every ones notes, I might consider renewing my membership with the intentions to see what they really do.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Nov 20 at 2013 7:25 PM

2013-11-20T19:25:44-05:00

My experiences with the VFW have been very positive. I assumed I would have the worst backlash because, well lets face it, Im a girl and many older veterans aren't comfortable with that. Or so I thought. I've been to three VFWs, two in Missouri and one in Kansas. It was shocking and humbling that these decorated WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm vets were honored to have ME as their guest. 

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Nov 20 at 2013 7:31 PM

2013-11-20T19:31:50-05:00

If we want the VFW and American Legion to adapt to the times, we have to get more involved and actually help the older generations of veterans with things like fundraising, organizing parades, deployment care packages etc.<div><br><div>FYI, these groups also fight, FIERCELY, for our benefits and well-being. </div></div>

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2013 7:39 PM

2013-11-20T19:39:36-05:00

Hello Retired SGT Hiller:<div><br></div><div>I do understand your situation because I joined the American Legion 9 years ago and when I first joined I was surrounded by a group of older Veterans from Vietnam, Korean, and Desert Storm War periods who was just use to being content with social gathering at their favorite club and really not doing much for the community.   They were very unorganized so once I started the post monthly newsletters to re engage the members an actively been the top recruiter for 6 years they became more open to change.  Thus we are more involved with the community than ever before and have the capabilities to host monthly meeting via video conferencing as well as phone for those member like myself that still moves around every year thanks to the United States Army, so once they see your heart and level of dedication they will change because the life of the post depends on the bloodline of new members with fresh ideas and energy to help them take it to the next level for whatever the need of the community might be. </div>

Response by SGT Richard Jacobs made Nov 21 at 2013 8:14 PM

2013-11-21T20:14:11-05:00

TIME FOR CHANGE! The rules. regulations, by-laws all need to be changed or omitted. One of the big reasons we don't get new membership is because of the archaic rituals/rites/traditions. The current military culture cannot adapt, nor does it need to, to all the "old order" stuff. We need to modernize and get out of the WWl/WWll mentality. We are NOT the Masons or Shriners! By the way, I'm a Vietnam War Combat Infantryman who is also a VFW District Commander.

Response by SGT Richard Jacobs made Nov 21 at 2013 8:15 PM

2013-11-21T20:15:18-05:00

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2013 6:36 PM

2013-11-22T18:36:51-05:00

It was like that when I ETS'd back in '96. I had joined the VFW back in '92 after a huge infusion of Desert Storm veterans. I continued my membership and finally joined a VFW post when I got out into the civilian world. Needless to say, I was just a mere "baby" compared to the old war vets. I believe I was the youngest on that post. After a few meetings and some functions, I still felt out of place. I understand if they didn't know what to do with a "youngster" like my self. I didn't renew my membership after that.

It really is a generational thing. Once the old soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines of our past conflicts, in those organizations, "fade away", the new generation from OIF and OEF will then become the main members. Who knows? in 20, 30 40 years from now, there may be new generation of combat vets who claim that our generation is "out of touch". We would just need to mindful about that in the future.

Response by 1LT Gerald O'Hare made Jul 29 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-07-29T12:51:28-04:00

Join American Legion Post 100
Commander O'Hare
iPhone [login to see]
We seek young veterans
[login to see]

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Jul 29 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-07-29T13:15:49-04:00

I am a member of VFW, American Legion, and AMVETS. All these organizations do tremendous work at the National level. At the local level, these posts are exactly what the active members make them. All my local posts have been trying and succeeding in bringing in new, younger members. The realization is hitting that without younger members, the local posts will die off (already happening), and without the local posts, the National programs will begin to die off as well.
If you want to be part of the solution, then join, and be active.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2014 3:34 PM

2014-07-29T15:34:13-04:00

I totally felt that way. The men wanted me to be in the Legion Auxiliary when I was a Vet. It was a good old boys club. This was a post in IL in the far west Chicago suburbs. The younger guys accepted me but not the older ones. I ended up quitting, because the men didn't seem to want me, and the women in the auxiliary definitely didn't want me either.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2014 4:40 PM

2014-07-29T16:40:56-04:00

The best way for them to get in touch is for new members to take active leadership roles in the organization. As I continue to PCS I find that most posts are actively looking for a younger crowd to keep them active and going. I find that many post commanders are on the 2nd or 3rd time as being the commander because so few people are willing to step up in leadership roles. Obviously each organization is made up of different people who have different visions and getting them to change from the norm can be a challenge. That however is what we as leaders do.

Response by SGT Paul Belk made Jul 29 at 2014 7:17 PM

2014-07-29T19:17:45-04:00

Sgt Hiller, I am a life member of my local VFW after I retired from the National Guard I was hesitant because I have been in several Legion and VFW post meetings doing ATM work. Sometimes I had to actually cut my way through the smoke. Members of these organizations are not bad, but there is a certain political culture that has been built over the years.
I am very active in my post and we are gaining newer generations of veterans because we are an outward organization that is very involved in our community. We have an Honor Guard that performs around 8 to 10 veteran funerals per month, including homeless veterans.
We care about veterans of all generations and it is almost like being in the military from a camaraderie perspective with the dog and pony show that exists in the military. I believe we are trained to serve others and that obligation does not necessarily end when we get out of the military. Veteran organizations are a great way to stay involved and I urge any veteran to participate for the greater good of our communities throughout the nation. Don't let bad apples deter you from joining go in with a servants heart and you will be amazed at how quickly you infiltrate the ranks.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Spencer made Jul 29 at 2014 9:26 PM

2014-07-29T21:26:20-04:00

I belonged to the American Legion. The attitude is "This is our group. Shut up and pay your dues, kid." It is mostly older veterans that hit the bar by 10am.

I tried making in-roads by talking about veteran issues and problems faced by veterans of my era. All fell on deaf ears.

My view is these clubs are doomed to die off with their members. Not willing to adapt.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2014 9:58 PM

2014-07-29T21:58:34-04:00

I am a life member of the VFW. I have never been to a meeting. I blame myself for that really...

Truth be told, any group be it the VFW, the Legion, an HOA or a Rotary can be good or bad as individual club experience is based largely on the local post membership. These clubs, like any aggregation of members will have its own social pecking order, peculiarities and friction.

I suppose the first exposure to one of these clubs is rather like one's first day at a new unit. On the one hand, I don't expect to find the unit's mission to cater to me on day one, but I would expect a sponsor to ease the transition and provide that welcoming effect, introducing the new fuzzy mammal to the old dinosaurs and at the same time helping to break the ice.

I liken it to visiting a new church. Suppose you were to arrive in a new town, and not feel entirely welcome at the first church you attended. Would you give up on church entirely or would you seek out a different congregation?

It is only in the best interests of these organizations to recruit AND retain younger veterans (VFW especially) as they are not making any new older veterans. Those clubs who embrace the yutes will grow, those that do not will wither and lose power and influence.

Perhaps Rally point could facilitate a listing of VFW/Am Legion posts that are actively interested in recruiting and retaining OEF/OIF/Desert Storm Veterans? Perhaps some of the members here who serve in VFW and Am Legion could carry this idea to their respective posts for transmission up the proverbial chain?

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Jul 29 at 2014 11:42 PM

2014-07-29T23:42:55-04:00

My service dates are outside those required for membership in both Legion and VFW. I'm 'welcome' to support with time, money, effort, and materials, but I don't have a voice and I can only be a 'wannabe' and nobody hesitated to say so. I know not all groups are like that, but in a rural area my options are limited. So I ride with the Patriot Guard, and through various members who are in those groups I can get access to info on things of interest.

Response by 1LT Gerald O'Hare made Jul 30 at 2014 12:18 AM

2014-07-30T00:18:06-04:00

[login to see]

This is our post but the legion does have a national website.

Response by Cpl Robert Hare made Jul 30 at 2014 8:52 AM

2014-07-30T08:52:44-04:00

I felt the same the same way when I joined Statham, Georgia Post 163. I became part of the solution and was nominated for office. I'm now the Post Adjutant and Legion Rider Assistant Director.

Response by SSG William Patton made Jul 30 at 2014 11:41 AM

2014-07-30T11:41:44-04:00

These organizations are led by older veterans and they are operating from a position comfortable for them. I would suggest to younger veterans to become poitically involved in your local chapter and once elected to an office in the Legion or VFW, begin to slowly initiate changes you want. If you look at the bios of the local, state and national leaders of both organizations, you will see many Korean, some WWII, and many Vietnam veterans. I am 65, served in Nam, but I know I may not hold an opinion like some younger veterans hold. The only way to change an organization is to become a leader in the organization.

Response by SGT Nathaniel Hiller made Jul 30 at 2014 11:54 AM

2014-07-30T11:54:18-04:00

Wonderful responses everyone. Another issue I have faced is these organizations do not seam to understand how important our families are. I can not speak for all of the Service Branches, but in the Army we stress family time. We are encouraged to inform our families of events and to include them in activities. The Legion and the VFW at my posts and surrounding areas simply want our families to know their place and hang out with the Auxiliaries. Our families have made bigger sacrifices to our service than we have. With that being said we need family activities and events. Not heavy drinking and whining about life.

Response by Sgt Paul Howe made Jul 30 at 2014 11:12 PM

2014-07-30T23:12:55-04:00

When I got out (1979) I went to follow in my fathers footsteps and join both vfw and American legion. I was refused entry into both. Both told me Vietnam was NOT a war, sorry, you're not allowed. But, I could join the auxiliary. Lets say I have a rather bitter opinion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2014 11:46 AM

2014-07-31T11:46:25-04:00

My Dad used to be very involved with the VFW near my home, during the Spring Semester I would stop there on my way home. I realized, the are out of touch, I'm not sure if it's the small town mentality or the old generation mentality. But yes, I do agree if they want their membership to grow they'll need to adapt.

Response by 1SG Brad Crosslin made Jul 31 at 2014 1:07 PM

2014-07-31T13:07:35-04:00

Boy howdy! Now here's a good topic!
My rant follows:
I have been a Life member of the VFW for several years, yet, I have not been an active member until last year. I have always seen the VFW as a bar where old Vets go the drink, smoke and tell war stories. I finally found a post with no canteen!
When I started attending our meetings, I brought up topics like children's activities and getting spouses involved. The post was receptive but there was never anything done. I talked about making the post more attractive to the new Vets, set up a Facebook page, and even started up a web site for us, the ladies aux, and worked on one for the Legion. It was like pulling teeth just to get information to keep the pages updated. I've done the Poppy Drive and had the opportunity to speak with a large number of potential members. The discussion ultimately addresses "I don't drink/smoke" or "I don't have time". Both of these arguments are valid simply because these new Vets have jobs and young families whereas the older vets are predominately retired with adult children. We are just not appealing to the new Vet.
Now, how do we fix it? The internet may be one approach, fewer meetings and more internet communication? How about fewer meetings and when you do have one, make it a big event…family cookout perhaps, or a flag ceremony? Community activities such as post sponsored easter egg hunts, or trunk or treats? Anything that gets the post a little media and involves the community will help.
Today’s young servicemen and women are our only hope for these organization’s futures. Without them, posts are going to shut down more and more and sooner than later, we will be a memory.

Brad

Response by 1SG David Niles made Jul 31 at 2014 8:32 PM

2014-07-31T20:32:10-04:00

I became a life time member in 2007, what I have learned is that it is what you make of it. I have helped add WI FI to one post and updated programs to help bring in young guys but adding computer work stations so they can do apps and stuff. The bottom line is that you have to get involved and run for the leadership position. Most post are looking for new and younger leadership, they want new blood, but they don't want to do the work. Change is hard, they want change but they don't want it to effect them.
My current post is very active, 10% runs everything in every organization. we have about 50 members and ten do everything.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Jul 31 at 2014 10:22 PM

2014-07-31T22:22:13-04:00

Yeah, they need to. At my local VFW, there's a bunch of great guys, but they are all Vietnam vets or older. The whole place centers on the bar, and about the only reason I ever go is to have a place to play pool.

I think the solution is for OIF/OEF veterans to join the VFW and the Legion in droves so that the organization has no choice BUT to adapt.

Response by SPC Richard White made Aug 1 at 2014 3:22 AM

2014-08-01T03:22:51-04:00

I would say yes. Unfortunately the American Legion has their membership dates set by the Government.The Cold War needs to be included in both the VFW and the American Legion.Both organizations have declining numbers.

Response by PO3 Steve Copeland made Aug 2 at 2014 2:06 PM

2014-08-02T14:06:45-04:00

It is very simple the younger Veterans need to step up and become the leaders of these organizations. But unfortunately they are geared for the retired person.

Response by SGT Abrahm Mccann made Aug 3 at 2014 5:02 PM

2014-08-03T17:02:39-04:00

Every VFW post I have ever been to has been great. The beer is cheap and nobody asks why you are the way you are. I can say however, that all of their fundraising seems to be centered older members that are in need. They are completely out of touch with the new veterans, but at the same time I dont see any of the younger vets doing much to reach out either. ITs a shame too because there is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom from each generation being wasted.

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Aug 3 at 2014 9:23 PM

2014-08-03T21:23:44-04:00

What keeps me away from the American Legion and VFW's are the smoke filled meetings they have. I want to be a part of these organizations but I do not want swim in smoke doing it.

Response by Sgt Moria Wolfinger made Aug 4 at 2014 12:09 AM

2014-08-04T00:09:05-04:00

I was told that if you served in theater, you can join the VFW... I never served in theater, so I never looked into them anymore.

Response by PO3 Marvin Carr made Aug 4 at 2014 11:58 AM

2014-08-04T11:58:40-04:00

I am currently an Adjutant at my local post, and have been there for 3 years. I am one of the youngest members there. If we want to get younger Veterans joining the VSO's, we need to be more active ourselves to start recruiting them.
At my post, the Veterans that I talk to say they want to join because they don't drink. That is what they see at most of the Legions. There are a lot of programs that The American Legion has to offer, and we need to start using that to our benefit. I am hoping to put an American Legion Baseball Team together for next year, and if all goes well, that will draw a lot of attention to the younger Veterans that wants to be more active at their post's.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2014 8:52 PM

2014-08-04T20:52:11-04:00

SGT Nathaniel Hiller Great question and also the comments all the way around. I've been a member of the local VFW, American Legion, and D.A.V. since retirement in 96, in VA, NC, OK, and now GA. We have all three organizations here in Hinesville (Ft. Stewart) and Savannah (Hunter Army Air Field), which is home to the 3ID, Ranger Bn, TF160 and other organizations. In all three organizations we continue to have the reign of the "Old Tiimers" in the organizational leadership. I find this unfortunate, as we are missing out by not having the voice of the new generation of Soldiers, Warriors, and Leaders who have carried on when we turned in our TA50 for the last time. Many of us recognize this and work hard to get the younger generation of Soldiers involved. The key problem that I see in all three organizations is that the current leadership continues to attempt to accommodate the older generation and not move forward to attract the next generation. In the long term, this is going to cause a void in what all three organizations do for "All Veterans" when it comes to representing us in Washington DC. If this does not begin to take place, All Veterans and especially Disabled-Veterans are going to start losing benefits that were promised to us a long time ago. Veterans serving in Congress is less than 5% throughout both Senate and House combined. Without these organizations representing us there and with our State Politicans when they are in town, we will lose more and more over time. It's past time for us "Older Soldiers" to reach out and work to pull in these new and younger generation of Soldiers. There is plenty of room at the bar for all of us. We need the new ideas and thoughts, as our generation has passed. In both our Am. Legion, smoking is still allowed in the bar area. At our VFW, last year, smoking was prohibited. It's a slow process, and it's time to stop digging in our heels and move over and allow the new generation of veterans to join us at the bar. We've yet to make them feel welcome! Shame on us!

Response by CPT David Dickerson made Aug 5 at 2014 1:02 PM

2014-08-05T13:02:39-04:00

The Legion and VFW do good work in certain areas but I agree they are a bit behind in others. I think that is just a function of the time they came into being and the majority of their membership not being Post 9/11 vets. There is definitely a generational divide.

Check into Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. That was the first veteran organization I joined. I think you will find them more of what you are looking for.

http://www.iava.org

Membership is free - you paid your dues when you served. There is no "Womens Auxiliary" because we recognize women in uniform fought along side men and are not auxiliary to anything.

IAVA is not one of the Congressionally "sponsored" VSO's that are authorized to assist with claims and have reps at VA Hospitals, etc. But IAVA is very effective at getting policies beneficial to our generation of vets through Congress. The Post 9/11 GI Bill is one of the best things IAVA has accomplished in our short history.

Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA)

We got your back.

Response by MSgt Joseph Capporelli made Aug 6 at 2014 2:57 PM

2014-08-06T14:57:31-04:00

I would imagine American Legions vary from post to post. Served as a commander for 2 terms. I couldn't lead the post away from the Bar... Everything seem to focus on the canteen. I haven't volunteered since then. Between having to purge members of those who shouldn't of been members to constant bickering, it wasn't worth my time. I have had a better experience with a Non Chartered Veterans group in Chicago called the Windy City Veterans. We got things done, less talk, more action, we got more done for the Veterans. The Legion on the National level appear to be focused on Veteran issues, but locally some posts get lost in the Bar....

Response by SPC Sean O'Sullivan made Aug 6 at 2014 11:40 PM

2014-08-06T23:40:20-04:00

This is the age old question with VSO's. I am in the American Legion, I am slightly active due to work and family obligations. Most of the members of my Post are Vietnam vets sprinkled with a few WW2 vets and some from Korea. If you ask the Nam vets, many will say the same things that our generation are saying, they weren't accepted, the concept didn't work for them at the time etc. Work to get more younger people involved with the group you are in. VSO's are invaluable.

Response by PO1 David Bird made Aug 7 at 2014 3:54 PM

2014-08-07T15:54:18-04:00

I read many of the responses to this post and I "hear" a lot of folks saying that we need to help the older members and bring a fresh perspective to the posts. Having served for many years on the board of directors at our local American Legion post, I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that "change" in any respect is not up for discussion. Myself and a few of the "younger" members (meaning "not 80+") made many changes to brighten the place up. We eliminated smoking indoors, refurbished the entire building (at a cost of roughly $1M), added satellite TV with several big screens (primarily for sports), tried different options for food service, etc. and the membership did not increase and, in fact, the "old timers" weren't really too happy with the changes. Now, I have the utmost respect for our "Greatest Generation" but I can see the writing on the wall; unless the posts attract new, younger members, the doors WILL close...and soon!

Response by PO1 Eric Corralejo made Aug 8 at 2014 10:02 AM

2014-08-08T10:02:40-04:00

I think a lot of this is a goes back to What SSG Woods said we as veterans need to get into these organizations and try to make them better. There are a lot of older generations holding it down in the VFW and American Legion but i think that's as much our fault for not being more active in these organizations as their apparent stagnation.

When I retired I looked into the local VFW, its cheap its literally 5 miles from my house and yet I have not attended a single meeting. I have been stuck in a long commute but it really is my failure that i have not tried to be more active.

Sounds campy and 80s but only WE can fix this problem and prevent forest fires. LOL

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 3:13 PM

2014-08-08T15:13:05-04:00

My local community does not have a VFW, however we do have an American Legion of which I am currently a member. I do feel that they are a bit 'out of touch' with today's soldiers, but that's because they do not have ACTIVE young solders directly involved with the organization! Here are a few things that I have brought to the attention of our leaders, which we are now working on;

1. Strongly encourage and recruit the soldiers of the now.
2. Get involved with social media
3. Elect a few young soldiers to various positions
4. Reach out to younger soldiers and get involved with their life

I strongly feel that both are great organizations, with great intentions, but if they cannot reach the younger generations, sadly these organizations will slowly disappear!

Response by SPC Darin Taylor made Aug 8 at 2014 3:16 PM

2014-08-08T15:16:17-04:00

As Commander of DAV Chapter 7 in Jackson, TN, I'm always trying to encourage members to get involved with the activities of the Chapter. A Veterans Service Organization is only as strong as it's actively involved members.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Aug 8 at 2014 4:23 PM

2014-08-08T16:23:10-04:00

It depends on the Post and area. My Post, VFW 9770 is all of 63 members and we have a young lady who is a quite capable Quartermaster. We also have several other young members involved.

https://www.facebook.com/VfwPost9770

We welcome all qualified members to our Post. We don't care on age or gender. Hell my 25 yr old son is a member of the Post...... In our District we have several active female members.

So again, it is based on each area!

VFW Post 9770

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Aug 8 at 2014 4:28 PM

2014-08-08T16:28:37-04:00

I believe it takes both sides to open up and except each other! Older VFW/Legion members and young veterans.

Also, when younger veterans have family. It is hard to have the time to take part in events and/or help out with their Posts. I know this from my own experience.

I have recently just got back involved with both only within the past couple of years. Between going on Disability permanently and my youngest of 4 graduated from High School in 2013. I have found to have more time to get involved.

Response by SGT Timothy Byrd made Aug 12 at 2014 9:29 PM

2014-08-12T21:29:12-04:00

I joined the VFW after my first deployment in 04. Luckily the post I joined already had a younger administration in place & was slowly making changes to entice the younger combat vets to join.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2014 6:49 PM

2014-09-04T18:49:24-04:00

I just joined the one in Panama City Beach and am looking forward to contributing and hopefully raising interest with the younger veterans in the area. So far most of the folks I have met are extremely nice, considerate and open minded.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 11 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-01-11T14:35:24-05:00

I'd say that RallyPoint is the digital version.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 10:17 PM

2015-03-26T22:17:39-04:00

They definitely need to reach out to younger veterans. However, I wouldn't compromise many of the patriotic traditions which I believe even younger soldier appreciate. I have seen some changes in the Legion. Ie the Riders groups didn't exist in the 50s or 60s (or at least not very well known) ; that put a very positive image on biking. Perhaps more social functions that are more appealing to younger people like dances with a DJ (even I lost it with most music after the 70/80s but if it brings it more younger vets so be it) However, it hard to get young people with jobs, family and children to join anything these days. If they do, it just on paper. I belong to Coast Guard Auxiliary and even though they do more to work with the active service people and do active things like boating patrol, their average age is lower to mid 60s. People dont seem to have time for these things until they retire and the kids are grown!

Response by SPC Christian Ziegler made Jun 20 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-06-20T23:08:44-04:00

I am the Jr. Vice Commander of Post 5578 of Madison WV. I have been for 2 years now. When I first joined they wanted me to some how get all the younger Veterans to join but by changing noting. Now we don't have a Canteen and we don't allow anyone to smoke inside the building, and no matter how much anyone complains it can never change because we got the building from the county commission for our use. After about 3 month I figured out during the meetings some things get said and all that, but after the meeting the guys that really do the stuff hang out in front of the building and decide what's going to happen and all that. Once you stay there and show up to help you will become a mover and a shaker. I have now got my Post to allow me to set up Facebook page, we have hunter safety course's, Handgun safety course's, 5k fun run's after hang out with Veterans and have free hotdog's , I invite the NG to show up and show off there stuff. The older guys now support me with this because the word has got around we are the post to go to. The community supports us 100%, and anytime a younger vet see's us out now we get a new member, just tonight at a rained out coal fest I signed up a new life member. Just stick with it and you will win these old guys over there just hard headed but they will come around. Scouts out

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2015 1:39 AM

2015-06-21T01:39:20-04:00

I am a 46 YO Former Marine, and every service "club house' seems to be filled with smoke from cigarettes, and people that are 65+. If these service organazations want to survive, they need to reach out to younger veterans. I am a member of the DAV, but have never looked up their "club house" or if there is even such a thing for the DAV.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Jun 21 at 2015 11:45 PM

2015-06-21T23:45:40-04:00

SGT Hiller. When I retired I joined the VFW. I did it because of their reputation of service to veterans (I haven’t been disappointed). I grew up in the 80s when Korea vets were starting to replace WW2 vets in leadership in the American Legion. I knew all about beer busts and Friday fish fries and I didn’t want anything to do with it (as a KFOR and OEF vet). My perspective changed here in Denver with VFW POST 1. They are the OLDEST VFW post and shifted from old-school to AMAZING. Check out the info below. No – not many posts are going to be this progressive. But it’s all about local leadership.
https://vfwpost1.org/
Right in the heart of Denver’s trendy art district.

Response by SFC Randall Beat made Jun 25 at 2015 1:45 PM

2015-06-25T13:45:27-04:00

Hello "Brothers and Sisters in Arms",

I apologize now this will likely be a long post.

VSOs in general have a uphill battle against the current culture of our nation. VSOs were largely founded on an all but gone community culture that many veterans of previous conflict/wars shared. This is the reason most VSOs need to make changes to accommodate younger veterans, the old ways need to change with the culture.

Before I joined my local VFW almost 2 years ago, I did some research on the current status of VSOs and how they were fairing in the current national culture. What I found very quickly is that most if not all VSOs were shrinking in overall membership and many post were closing due to low membership and low activity.

I’ll give you a brief background about me to show you my prospective. I served 18 years US Army – Medical Discharged for lower back injury in the line of duty, 30% disability rating from VA, BA in Business Admin. – Marketing, MA in Business and Organizational Security Management.
I moved from Southern California to North Idaho in April of 2013. During that long drive I made a decision to be part of the community I live in rather than just live in the community. I decided months later to join the VFW in my community. So I looked up the nearest post and found via the website when there post meeting were. So I show up and as soon as I walk in the door, everyone in the room turns and looks at me. One of the members asked “Are you a member?” I replied “not yet”. I quickly got a reply “you cannot come in; this is a members only meeting”. I turned and left the room, a membered followed me out and gave me quick explanation why I was not allowed to attend and that he did not have time to see to making me a member right now. There were only about 10 members in the room and only one of them was below the age of 50. I came back on another day and paid my dues and became a “card carrying member”. From there I attend most of the VFW functions and quickly became a “pain in the arse” to many of the older members, with my new ideas and spitfire attitude.
Looking back I understand that many posts will come off with the good ol’ boy attitude, but sticking with it will often times overcome that built in culture. I also found that when I gave an idea that I needed to back it up with action and reap the respect from its success. Over the last 19 months, I have been given enough rope to hang myself and instead used that rope to make a bridge between the post and our community. Here are some of the new things our post has done in the last 18 months and the out comes from those events:
Hosted a Game convention in alliance with our local Game store
60 people attended and the event made the front page of the paper.

The post made over $18,000 dollars in donations and donated over $18,000 to veterans in our community. There were no 30% costs or administration fees put on this money. Every dime we were donated went back to the veterans in our community.
We supported Women Warrior Retreat and recruited several female veterans.
We planned and will hold our first Veteran Family Retreat this weekend, in hopes of making it an annual event.
From these events and activities I have learned that activity breeds activity. The older the average age of a post is the more difficult it will be to stay activity in the community. So recruiting members is and will always be the life blood of VSOs. If you are not getting new “younger” members, your post is effectively dying a slow death. As you all know many posts have a bar that at one point in time with the “best watering hole in town”. That watering hole is now all dried up! The younger veterans that would be considered the market for VSOs are in the stage of their life that they have kids and jobs, alcohol though legal is not the preferred method of building loyalty with a veteran family. In my opinion the posts that perpetuation the stereo typical of veterans wasting their days away drinking and smoking at the “Watering hole” is doing more damage to VSOs than anything else. VSOs must be active in their community or they will waste away.
Some of the ways a post can be active in its community are: providing a Veteran Family Retreat, putting on a month Family movie night, have a weekly coffee and donut (free) where all veterans are welcome. This is just a few ways to move in the right direction, I’m sure there are many more. I would enjoy hearing about them.
Since joining the VFW, I have been placed/voted into several positions: Post Jr Vice, Post Sr Vice, District QM and District Chief Recruiter, I also attended the state conventions, I decided to focus on my community rather than focus on trying to move up the chairs in district. As many of you know VSOs are a bureaucracy and that means “Red Tape” and paper work. After holding the positions, I understand the need for the paper work. My goal is to change my community’s view of the VFW and provide for the veterans in my community. VSOs are a community based organization and that being said they add value to their community or they will go away.

Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy post and if you are in need of direction when it comes to a VSO please feel free to contact me.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jul 3 at 2015 4:22 AM

2015-07-03T04:22:49-04:00

It depends....the further one moves away from the cities, and into smaller towns, change comes real slow. Upper Midwest American small town culture can be biased. These organizations reflect their townie behaviors and can be observed as closed systems and in some cases nepotism is the norm. Outsiders beware...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2015 8:48 AM

2015-07-03T08:48:04-04:00

I recently joined the vfw in Copperas cove TX and while the advice I get there from former Soldier's is a huge plus there biggest events are bingo 3 nights and karaoke on Fridays not really gonna bring in the younger generation but the only way that is going to change is if the younger generation goes there and sets up different things currently I am working on getting new events there that will appeal to the younger generation as well as the older vets such as a bike night, classic car show ect change will only come when someone steps up to make the change

Response by 1SG Charles Hunter made Oct 20 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-10-20T16:07:59-04:00

Refer to responses by SSG V. Michelle Woods and MSG Wade Huffman. American Legion and VFW are "grassroots" organizations. If you want to see them adapt at the local level to the needs and aspirations of today's veterans, join and get active! Everything they do begins at the local level.

Response by PO3 Ellsworth Allen Westgate made Dec 19 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-12-19T12:16:28-05:00

Depends on what's being considered. I don't mind viewing some of thing they do as tradition. My dad was WWII Vet attached to the AM-Legion for years. Nice friendly group of buddy's - they clicked well together "why change that?" Years later it was those memories of my dads time in the AM-Legion that lead me to the Legion, this was quite a bit bigger post about 10 times the people, programs , things happing, but its not the same. So Now I'm going to try the DAV less money for life time membership and some said they're real good for getting claims done " hence the name" DAV.

My next life time membership will be the VFW way cheaper than the Legion. One guy was explaining the exclusiveness of the VFW and end with saying Once your in the VFW you belong to the Legion.... I liked that. ( This is the change Id like to see be made - )
I have a lot respect for the Legion but anyone qualifies and to me something is missing , plus the life time membership is like $900.00 .. not me nor did my dad payout like that ..he played music for the legion for years.

Time to move on, unfortunately the only way to experience this is to actually join and learn. The DAV and VFW is where I stop worst case scenario - I made an effort and hope the $$ helps out, best case I can have little fun make friend or two get my claimed bumped up a little eventually enjoy belonging " I get tired of chasing down my own paper work" that's my best answer I have all the same question you do ! ! ! Happy Holidays

Response by Cpl Tracey Chapman made Jan 12 at 2016 7:27 PM

2016-01-12T19:27:58-05:00

Of course today's soldiers are like no other before them the injuries memories are so destructive

Response by COL John McClellan made Jan 27 at 2016 5:03 PM

2016-01-27T17:03:21-05:00

Absolutely! And some are doing it.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Feb 24 at 2016 2:58 PM

2016-02-24T14:58:27-05:00

Yes. I think a big turn off for many Post 9/11 vets is the far right wing conservative and evangelical views that these groups are a platform for. The AL seems to get just as involved in the gun lobby, immigration and religious issues as it does real veteran issues. While I do not consider myself left or right, I am bothered that to fit in to these groups I have to conform to an ideology that goes beyond the common thread of being a military veteran

Response by Cpl Paul Riccio made Mar 20 at 2016 10:33 PM

2016-03-20T22:33:32-04:00

I personally think it is going to be Motorcycle clubs and associations that are going to get the younger veterans.

Response by 1LT Gerald O'Hare made Mar 24 at 2016 1:59 PM

2016-03-24T13:59:47-04:00

I'm a Vietnam vet and the Commander of our local AL post. We do work with the Veterans home and place flags on gravesite, work with the HS ROTC group and send kids to Boys State. I have given up trying to get young veterans into our post. I hear nothing but excuses and holier than thou statements from the younger vets. We don't smoke and we are not drunks but we do a lot of good for our community and I just want to tell these young guys to stop making excuses about being active in your community. I'm a combat veteran and I don't carry the chip on my shoulder like some of these younger veterans. Veteran organizations should be judged on the good they do in the community and not by some Hollywood image of Veterans. If you think that somehow you are morally superior to me then don't join us. We don't need you or want your holier than thou attitude.

The American Legion is the largest veterans group on earth. We have all the benefits of credit cards, insurance, travel, rentals as such a large group can posses. But we don't need some self righteous asshole coming up to us and demanding to know what we can do for you and then not being willing to engage in the local community. So it is time for you young vets to stop talking and step up to the plate. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and now decide to better the community and state and country for all of our people. Talk is cheap and I seen nothing but talk coming from young vets. So join or don't join and stop talking about how we and the world needs to change. That is a fucking excuse for being afraid of life. So engage life or shut the fuck up.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2016 12:57 PM

2016-07-29T12:57:20-04:00

I would love to join a local VFW but they are really defunct, drinking teams. I don't want to sit around a bar telling war stories. At least not SOLELY sitting around and swapping lies. There was a VFW in Colorado, I think, that was very sophisticated. Involved programs and families. The bar was not the focus of the post.

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Feb 18 at 2018 10:18 PM

2018-02-18T22:18:18-05:00

I hear these kinds of comments all the time. When I first got out I thought a lot of what people have said, that the VFW was out of touch with the times, that they don't get it. The truth is not that they don't get it, but that just as those that visit once might feel judged, so you are judging them, and the organization as a whole without giving them a chance.

Once I joined the VFW, started going to meetings, started communicating with the different levels I came to realize that the VFW is actually adaptable to fill the needs of the area and has adapted to the times, but as many of the members are older it is hard for them to make the changes locally without those that know how too. Because the VFW, American Legion and AMVets are adaptable is why there is not just one chapter, but many charters around the country. Though the needs of all veterans are basically the same, the needs of some veterans might change based on location, distance from services and availability of programs in the area. But also the VFW, the American Legion and AMVets can also provide special programs in their area based on interest. For example in my area there are a lot of veteran artists, as such the VFW and American Legion has become involved in the arts by running workshops, hosting and sponsoring events and supporting local art activities.

Believe it or not the VFW, American Legion and AMVets actually have a lot to offer veterans. While I can not speak for all areas, I know that in NY the VFW has programs to give computers and cars to veterans, supports the Veterans Homes, gives to Homeless Veterans, Sponsors Art for Veterans, helps the Student Veterans of America, sponsors Dogs for Veterans, gives scholarships to Middle School and High School Students, honors those that have passed from us, provides food pantries for veterans in need, sends care packages to veterans deployed, and many other programs that would go away without their support.

But the reasons for joining your local VFW, American Legion or AMVets go beyond just saving what seems to be a dying organization of guys and gals sitting around drinking. Besides being one of the oldest veteran organizations in the US. The VFW is responsible for the VA, the GI Bill, and the National Home for Children. The VFW, the American Legion and AMVets are also the only veteran organizations that have not only legislation groups in Washington, but also every state. These groups go to the State Legislation and to the Capital to fight for the rights and benefits of veterans. Right now both in New York and Washington we are fighting for Day Care extensions for veterans disabled in service, while many of the younger veterans don't have to worry about this now, there will come a time when they do, and we are working to introduce a bed hold policy for veterans in nursing homes that are paid for through VA benefits, as well as pushing for expansions to the Post 9-11 GI Bill and Patients Choice Programs. We are fighting to stop privatization of services and proposed reduction in veteran home loans. But if veterans today don't join and let these organizations dye then who will fight to keep these in the future?

Look these organizations are not perfect and can use help, and the only way that is going to happen is if you get involved. Understand that it may not be that the members of the local post don't want to help, it maybe that they don't understand the new systems in place, because they are not up on internet use, or running programs on the computer, and that is where you can come in and help them, so that you and them can help those in need.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Oct 8 at 2018 4:48 PM

2018-10-08T16:48:36-04:00

I belong to both the VFW, and AL, and I've transferred through several Posts as I've traveled, an moved. Once thing I can say is that each post has its own flavor and character. Much depends upon the era the current post leadership has served in. Most of the WWII era leadership has passed on and the batons have shifted, Even the Korean War Vets are fewer in number. What You have are mostly Vietnam Era, and Cold War Era Vets such as myself. One thing I've seen over the last 20 years is a realization that the status quo can not stand, and the VOs must change and adapt. It takes the younger more energetic members to really bring about the changes needed, and ironically it is the younger members who are still in the services, or who have family obligations that really don't have the time to participate and guide changes. The VFW and AL also suffer from the stereotype of old people who sit in the lounge getting drunk, yes, we have that image, and it is a difficult one to dispel. Even the time I have to give to the VFW and AL is limited by life events so pushing for changes becomes challenging.

For my current VFW post, we have corps members who support the VA Hospital's Community Living Center, and work programs to assist the at risk veterans' community, our sister VA post has eliminated smoking and is actively looking to engage Active Duty Service Members at a Training Bse with Air Force, Navy, And Marine Cadre and Trainees. The local American Legionhosts events for the wider community at large to include the County's Special Needs Organization (developmentally challenged). As for myself, I often perform missions with the VFW's Honor Guard at the National Cemetery in Biloxi Miss and regionally for Deceased Veterans and families. But as for how the VOs are currently, they are slowly changing to become more accommodating to the newer Veterans. But it takes the younger generation to be active for those changes to begin.

Older members may be the guardians of older traditions, but the younger members are the Pathfinders moving us forward.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 27 at 2021 8:15 AM

2021-08-27T08:15:08-04:00

Results vary from post to post which tends to indicate a failure of leadership. I haven't seen it in the VFW posts I joined but have heard the same complaint from others. I suppose it's simply payback
WWII vets fail to respect Korean vets who disrespect Vietnam vets who...

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Aug 27 at 2021 11:04 AM

2021-08-27T11:04:49-04:00

When I returned from Viet Nam an got out of the Army in 1971, My dad who was a ww2 vet signed me up for the VFW. I never felt very welcome there, It was alweys my dad's generation there, although I went anyway sometimes. Now it's the Afganistan, Iraq bunch. I'm a life member now and the VFW does a lot of good for vets and the community but I still don't feel welcome.

Response by SMSgt John Windham made May 26 at 2022 11:45 AM

2022-05-26T11:45:55-04:00

Ol boys abound and we don’t need your kind around here