Do you think the Army denied a soldier the MOH because he was a prior service Marine?

Capt Lance Gallardo — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:19:31 -0400

Was this prior service (Marine) Soldier unjustly denied the Medal of Honor by the Army , despite apparently meeting the criteria for the MOH, and having the recommendation/endorsements for the MOH by his chain of command up through the Theater Commander, now currently serving Commandant of the Marine Corps (Incoming Chair of the Joint Chiefs) General Joseph Dunford. The Army downgraded his award to the Silver Star?

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/09/10/moh-downgrade/72019744/

COL Mikel Burroughs,CPT Chris Lautner ,MSG Brad Sand, SFC Keith Swanson, Gyn Sgt Wayne A. Ekblad, MAJ Yinon Weiss, Sgt Robert Jones

IG probes why soldier didn't get Medal of Honor

The Army's decision to deny a Medal of Honor for a Green Beret soldier is under investigation by the Pentagon's top watchdog, military documents show

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 11:24 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:24:00 -0400

I highly doubt it. There are a whole lot of politics that go into MOH decisions but ai severely doubt that the Army didn't award it because he was a prior Marine. If that does turn out to be the case it will probably be corrected, but I am more along the thinking that it didn't quite meet the cutoff, or was ambiguous, which happens a lot.

I don't think any of our services are opposed to any of our other services. We may joke at each other's expenses, but we are all in the fight together and I haven't experienced anything that would make me think this would happen.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Sep 11 at 2015 11:26 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:26:14 -0400

I don't think his service in the Marine Corps played any sort of role in the recommendation being downgraded. As LCDR Private RallyPoint Member stated, there are a lot of politics that go on behind the scenes. As we all know awards are downgraded all the time. It will be interesting to see what the Army comes back with as the reason for the downgrade but I highly doubt it will be related to his service as a member of the Corps.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 11 at 2015 11:26 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:26:21 -0400

Capt Lance Gallardo - No... at least, I hope not.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Sep 11 at 2015 11:30 AM

Capt Mark Strobl — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:30:16 -0400

The article introduces allegations of misconduct and paints SFC Plumee as brash... Irrelevant. The soldier met (possibly exceeded) the baseline requirements for the MOH. This downgrade serves only to dilute, not the man's actions under fire but, the Medal of Honor itself. Standing by for a CONGRINT and the IG's "official" response.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Sep 11 at 2015 11:58 AM

SN Greg Wright — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:58:27 -0400

Capt Lance Gallardo That'd be pretty asinine if so, Captain.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 12:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:07:27 -0400

The leading factors thus far do include his prior service as "a" factor. However, the larger two I have seen in reputable sources are the criminal investigation that was ongoing (he was cleared) and his blunt, outspoken manner.

That said, the award review process is broken and far too often we are seeing soldiers denied valor medals for actions that were not connected to their act of valor.

I would like to see this decision overturned.

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Sep 11 at 2015 12:13 PM

Capt Lance Gallardo — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:13:06 -0400

My take on this , while awaiting the IGs report is that Valor Awards, especially the Medal of Honor have been very stingily awarded during GWOT, and OEF (Afghanistan), and OIF (Iraq), in general and there have been numerous complaints and some studies that seem to back this complaint up. Only in the last couple years did it seem like MOHs for Navy Seals, Army and Marines, seem to loosen up a little bit, but there are still controversial cases where the MOH was supported by the Marine or Soldiers Chain of Command but later downgraded at the Pentagon, which as you might imagine, makes the Sailors, Soldiers and Marines who were there in combat with the candidate for the MOH go ballistic. Army Capt. Swenson's controversy with his MOH recommendation and ultimate award are particularly troubling: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/26/army-spied-will-swenson-medal-honor-recipient-over/

Army spied on Will Swenson, Medal of Honor recipient, over Amazon book review

The sixth living servicemember to be honored with the Medal of Honor was spied on by Army investigators over an Amazon book review that mentioned his name.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 12:22 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:22:09 -0400

Perhaps we are losing sight of the forest for the trees. Congratulations SFC Plumlee on earning the Silver Star!

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Sep 11 at 2015 12:27 PM

Capt Lance Gallardo — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:27:01 -0400

In addition to Capt. Swenson's ordeal, the family of and the Marines who served with Marine Sgt. Rafael Peralta were bitterly disappointed to see the Pentagon downgrade the Medal of Honor award to the Navy Cross for Sgt Peralta, after an eleven year ordeal where the Pentagon concluded his final act of covering a grenade with his body was not volitional, not an act of his conscious will.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/05/28/family-of-rafael-peralta-fallen-iraq-war-hero-to-accept-navy-cross-award-after-long-refusal/

Family of Rafael Peralta, fallen Iraq war hero, to accept Navy Cross award after long refusal

The Marine is credited with smothering a grenade to save his buddies -- but was denied the Medal of Honor.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 12:30 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:30:33 -0400

I think I read that it had something to do with this man selling a scope online (???), which seems absurd. MOH nominees should be awarded the medal based on their heroic actions in combat, not on some background check criteria.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 11 at 2015 12:53 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:53:21 -0400

Wow... This gets into some seriously complex issues.

First, what are the "lines in the sand" for the major valor awards. Specifically the MoH, the Crosses, and the Silver Star?

Second, should there be political factors introduced when awarding the major valor awards?

Third, in regards to "should there be," if no, is that the actual reality?

Let's try to tackle these one by one. I've always looked at the MoH as, to put it bluntly "grenade hoppers." When people blindly jump into the breach to save their comrades, without regard for their own safety. That doesn't mean they are sacrificing their life, but it does mean they were willing to. They were at a point where they didn't even think of it. They likely weren't even conscious of it. The best comparison I have ever come up with is the Greek Heroes. These are the men of Legends.

Now, as for the political factors... I don't think anyone, among us, believes there should be any political influence when it regards to the singular acts that earned these heroes the recognition these medals represent. However it's a bureaucratic process, which can quickly turn political, especially in larger organizations.

When we get into the "top 3" we temper what should, with what is. So when you have someone even nominated for these awards, the influence is going to get insane. I recall an article that was shared on Memorial Day, regarding Gen Kelly (USMC) and the truck bomb, and two of our men and the Navy Cross.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/29/nation/na-heroes29

He KNEW that to get them the proper recognition, he had to get his Stars involved. He had to get "politically involved."

So.. Do I think the soldier in question was denied the MoH because he was previously in the USMC? Hard question. Do I think it may have been a contributing factor... would not surprise me in the least, especially when you add in the other "factors" like blunt talk, and a CID investigation (cleared).

Like it or not, the political monster is at work, and the Awards Branch is more scared of getting this wrong, than getting it right.

A speeding truck bomb, and a shared act of courage

They had known each other only a few minutes, but they will be linked forever in what Marine brass say is one of the most extraordinary acts of courage and sacrifice in the Iraq war.Cpl. Jonathan...

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Sep 11 at 2015 8:28 PM

GySgt Moses Lozano — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:28:56 -0400

Figures!

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 5:24 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 17:24:31 -0400

I wouldn't question any decision , either way, about awarding "The Medal". It's the nature of the MOH. It's an elite group and always will be. How many wear it for the ones who deserved it, for the ones who never came back and how many said they don't deserve it. I'm not familiar with the individual but if he's an enlisted man, a Silver Star isn't that common. HAs anyone interviewed him and asked him his thoughts?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 11:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 11:32:28 -0400

Service members are not awarded the Medal of Honor for many reasons. If you can get to the decision maker about this Soldier's MOH, please do so. There are so many awards downgraded for bullshit reasons, I'm sure this Soldier's award may have been a casualty of the same cause.

Response by LCpl Domingo Ariza made Jun 22 at 2016 3:18 AM

LCpl Domingo Ariza — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 03:18:52 -0400

I am not touching this one

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 8 at 2018 7:01 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 08 Dec 2018 19:01:29 -0500

I get an Eror 404 with that link.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2018 9:06 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:06:04 -0500

No.