Do you think the police could use a escalation of force similar to the Army?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:58:47 -0400

I have friends and family that are police officers. I know the police force has some sort of sop for lethal Force. They're also outfitted with a non-lethal weapons. I think it would be beneficial for the police force to demonstrate to the public and their Rules of Engagement and standard operating procedures for lethal Force.

Response by SSG Roderick Smith made Jul 10 at 2016 3:00 PM

SSG Roderick Smith — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:00:37 -0400

Its called the Use of Force Continuum, and it already exists.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 3:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:01:29 -0400

They already do. The question is are they sufficient, are they followed, and are they understood by the public.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 3:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:20:26 -0400

Their use of force is sufficient in my opinion. It allows for more options in the escalation of force than the military does.

I don't know if additional demonstrations are needed. The less lethal options police use are already available for demonstration on line.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Jul 10 at 2016 3:27 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:27:39 -0400

Though there is not a "UNIVERSAL" guideline, the Use of Force of Continuum is like the Militaries escalation of force. I think the problem or issue is Cops find themselves in situations, sometimes quickly with no time to give it any thought and they do what they feel necessary, which is decided in an instant...sometimes, going back and looking at what happened, it's realized maybe not so much force was actually needed. Being a cop is not easy...they are always on their guard, and rightfully so...and like any other business...there will be some who should not be in this business...like people...there are bad apples...but most are not...

I think cops should have gun with rubber bullets...and they should try and use their Tasers or stun guns more often, then using their guns.

Response by SGT Brian Wall made Jul 10 at 2016 4:11 PM

SGT Brian Wall — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:11:35 -0400

The problem with the use of force continuum that a lot of the officers that I know say is that most situations go 0-100 in matter of a second and forces them to skip to the use of less then lethal or lethal force.

Response by 1SG Patrick Burke made Jul 10 at 2016 4:15 PM

1SG Patrick Burke — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:15:41 -0400

Most likely not. With all the street lawyers out there, they will attempt to push the limit during contact with a police officer. I base this on a simple fact, a larger number of officer involved deaths were due to not adhering or resisting instructions. There have been a few that appear to be down right wrongful deaths. It is not a law enforcement or race issue, it is a societal issue. We take what we see from a film clip and run with it, especially when different races are involved.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 4:23 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:23:12 -0400

Hopefully they're trained well enough the correct weapon whether it be lethal or non lethal. But if that cop feels like they're in danger I don't care which they grab as long as they protect themselves

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Jul 10 at 2016 6:31 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:31:51 -0400

I watched a video this morning. A woman was IN THE FACE of a Cop taunting him and calling him "pig" repeatedly while she was smirking.

The bitch deserved a healthy dose of pepper spray.

Response by SGT Dana Williams made Jul 10 at 2016 6:32 PM

SGT Dana Williams — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:32:30 -0400

The law enforcement agencies, like the military, must be capable of meeting any threat posed to the public ... and to them! They are not being paid to be murdered!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 6:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:48:42 -0400

Those pesky warning shots are often problematic and our rules of engagement are as clear as, and restrictive, as bobbing for apples in boiling pea soup.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jul 10 at 2016 7:07 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:07:00 -0400

Use of force for law enforcement is:
Presence
Verbal
Chemical weapons
Hands-on tactics
Electronic immobilization devices
Impact weapons or munitions
K9
Lethal force
The level of threat dictates the level of force used. The quote offender unquote determines the level of force used by law enforcement in incidents where the use of force is found to be justified.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jul 10 at 2016 7:59 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:59:28 -0400

See SSG Roderick Smith's statement. In reality the current military ROE actually came from Law Enforcement and not the other way around.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jul 10 at 2016 8:04 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 20:04:51 -0400

As far as police forces demonstrating this to the public, they do this all the time in most of their community policing programs; they do it at schools, community centers, libraries, and even churches when asked.

Response by TSgt William Meyer made Jul 10 at 2016 9:24 PM

TSgt William Meyer — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:24:19 -0400

every state is different for use of force. in some states you can shoot a fleeing felon or at a moving car, and than some departments have guidelines which are even more restrictive, where I worked you couldn't fire a warning shot (NYC) maybe in a more rural area you could. There's a saying in LE ... it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. We all want to go home to our family's at the end of our shift so during those 8 or 12 hr shifts you do what you have to do to do that, both you and your partner.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Jul 11 at 2016 7:01 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:01:45 -0400

The video that SGT Private RallyPoint Member posted is definitely something that could be useful.

The general public will likely never fully understand the ROEs of Use of Force. I have been a long time supported of Law Enforcement and when I went through Use of Force Training myself I was surprised at what I learned just with how many thing justify lethal force. That is something that hard headed people will never agree with though, even with those classes.

One of the main things we learned is when it comes to having to deal with someone you as an officer (or in my case a SF Augmentee) have to have the advantage. It's not supposed to be a fair fight, it's supposed to be unfair and in your favor as the person trying to regain control of the situation at hand. The problem is too many people in the public don't see it that way. I know my fair share of people that would say that cops should never use a higher level of force than the suspect is using but they don't understand how quickly things can go south and just how extreme they can as well. As seen in that video it goes from him just verbally arguing with a guy to the guy pulling a gun and shooting him.

Unless people see how quickly things can get bad they will never understand. Unfortunately even in videos on YouTube of cops getting injured or killed most of the people commenting are still swaying towards the side of the criminal because there's people out there who just have a hatred of the uniform and badge plain and simple.