Do you think the softer BMT is helping or hindering today's military?

2015-05-29T12:52:36-04:00

Shorter training, cell phones remain with trainees, "time out" type cards...helpful, hindering, or no change? What are some of your experiences and opinions?

Response by CMSgt Mike Esser made May 29 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-05-29T12:57:04-04:00

Hindering. Heat of the fire hardens the steel

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-05-29T12:59:44-04:00

I believe it hinders the "breaking down to rebuild" plan of attack that i feel is a big part of initial training

Response by Sgt Jay Jones made May 29 at 2015 1:12 PM

2015-05-29T13:12:17-04:00

I think it depends on the branch of service and that branches mission. It will absolutely not work to build Marines! If a person is in the Air Force, their mission is different and it may actually enhance their training, because of the extremely high technical end.

I remember watching on of my favorite movies "Glory" with Denzel Washington and Matthew Broderick. Andre Braugher played a character that was raised with Matthew Brodericks character. The Sergeant Major who was training them. Told the Colonel to let him train him. In other words, he felt that Andre's character was too soft to be a combatant and he needed to harded him up.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-05-29T13:17:57-04:00

Hinder. Absolutely and utterly hinders.

The purpose of Basic is to break away the civilian and build up the soldier/sailor/Marine/Airman. Also, to introduce one to the stressors of wartime, so there is no culture shock at the worst possible time.

I understand that "times, they are a'changing", but this is not one of those facets that needs change. I don't know many in my generation that arrived at Basic expecting to be coddled and cooed at. We expected to get our a$$es kicked. Every day. All day.

I went through Army Basic, c. 1991. They didn't quite understand my Jersey charm. I was lit up every day. Strengthened me in every possible way. I am who I am today because of it. (Not Popeye, btw)
:)

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made May 29 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-05-29T13:19:45-04:00

Has anyone actually personally SEEN these "time out" cards? When I went through in 1997, we HEARD about them, but no one I've talked to has ever seen or had one... it was always a rumor about the next group over...

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made May 29 at 2015 8:36 PM

2015-05-29T20:36:11-04:00

Okay, on the three things that you have mentioned:

1. Training is about the same length if not a little bit longer since they have introduced the new Cap Stone Week or whatever they are calling it. Basically they stay a week after graduation to transition between BMT and Tech School. From my understanding it's most of the same speeches that are giving during the first week at tech school however I could be wrong.

2. I have spoken with people that have been coming out of training since they have changed. Cell phones are definitely not staying with the trainees or if they are they are locked away in the lockers all day.

3. Time out cards are bogus. Not a single Airman that I have spoken to coming from BMT has said that they have those. There is critique forms where you can talk good or bad about your MTI anonymously but those have been around since before I got there back in 2012 at least.

Now that being said, one of the things that has changed is MTIs are being watched far more closely under the microscope as a result of the assaults back in 2011 and 2012. As a result they are not able to be as...not sure how to word this...intimidating? That's about the best way to put it. They are in some ways being forced to tone down how they train the newbies. This in my opinion is going to hinder things because I feel like Airmen should fear those that out rank them at least a little bit. Not in a way that they wouldn't go to their supervision with issues but in a way that they know if they screw up bad enough there will be consequences.

I know one thing I notice with some Airmen is they don't fear paperwork which is understand why to an extent. Who really cares about getting counseled and having an extra piece of paper go on file right? In BMT and Tech School 341s get pulled all the time but the amount of times that they actually receive any type of punishment is little to never. This already seeds a mindset that paperwork is irrelevant. Thing is they need to understand that stuff follows them their entire career depending on the circumstances and could hurt them for awards and promotion. Some still don't care which is kind of disheartening but you can't change someone's personality most of the time.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 8:54 PM

2015-05-29T20:54:29-04:00

Not to throw out the whole back in my day routine. But I feel this hinders more then helps and in the older days having a hard time in basic helps troops deal with the true brutality of what we do.

Now In some ways it's nice to have contact with family a little more so having a phone in that context would be a good thing for moral. But I think over all the shortening and easing of basic training and the allowing for phones over all weakens our force.

As a whole the military is not a nice or easy profession. So doing this I think lessens or mission effectiveness.

Response by TSgt David Holman made May 30 at 2015 12:45 AM

2015-05-30T00:45:06-04:00

If the airmen that I have been getting lately are any indication, it is hurting. Lack of discipline, lack of respect, inability to cope with stress, crying as soon as someone says something other than "you did a great job", whining about not getting a 5 when they did nothing above and beyond, forgetting that most NCOs have several years of experience in their field... yeah, it is hindering and ultimately destroying the military

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 1 at 2015 9:49 AM

2015-06-01T09:49:25-04:00

Been a problem since the early '90s as today's trainees are "smarter and more advanced" than those of us that came before....unfortunately a belief took hold that you couldn't be "mean" to the new trainees, they are not used to that and need to be led by the hand to get them from point A, being a civilian, to point B, being a service member. This combined with far too many individuals not knowing how to deal with stressful situations or being told NO when they were growing up led to a lower quality of trainees from the get go, but that is merely the opinion of a retired old fart that assisted in the training of some of the winners we have today.

Response by SrA Johnathan Kropke made Jun 1 at 2015 10:05 AM

2015-06-01T10:05:23-04:00

Hindering, 100% this is hindering at least for Air Force.

Let's go over just the changes they made in the last few years from when I was in BMT to now.

First it is shorter, the length of time matters because even though everything is still go, go, go, the MTI's get longer to develop trainees into Airmen with longer Basic Training. Shortening that hinders the MTI's from doing their jobs.

Second, stress cards, timeout cards. Okay this is so bizarre and unnecessary. BMT is made to be stressful to understand how a trainee will handle a stressor during their military career or in combat. If a trainee cannot handle simple stressors from BMT how can they be trusted to handle a firefight or active scenario in a deployed location.

Finally, the cell phones with trainees. This is a regressed technique due to one simple fact, if the trainee has contact with everything that was before BMT how can the MTI work with changing the mindset of a civilian who states me, me, me, to go to an Airmen who says Air Force, Air Force, Air Force. It's absurd to think this has all changed form even when I went to basic in 2013.

Response by SSgt Jae Johnson made Nov 27 at 2015 12:54 PM

2015-11-27T12:54:02-05:00

At the risk of sounding like a smart arse, why is this even a question? As training becomes "softer" so do the soldiers/airmen etc. We already have two generations of American young people who are feel entitled to anything and everything without working for it. Why are we encouraging this behavior in our war fighters?