Do you think there should be a change in how we conduct a court-martial or separation board in regards to sex based crimes under the UCMJ?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 18:36:41 -0500

This question stems from the recently publicized Air Force court-martial and administrative separation board for a Senior Master Sergeant (E-8) who was convicted of abusive sexual contact and dereliction of duty after he touched a female airman's genital area and pulled off her top in the presence of other airmen.

He was reduced to Master Sergeant (E-7) and was retained in his separation board.

A question that is being asked is can commanders and senior leaders in the same formation as a sex offender that they have worked with be trusted to be unbiased and give sound judgement.

A group of Soldiers and Marines I was speaking with suggested that in these cases a pool of JAG officers outside of the service members formation should be utilized in these cases, it was even suggested tapping JA's from other branches if necessary to fill any gaps since the JAG Corps is relatively small.

Do you think there are alternatives that should be explored to the system we have in place regarding sex based crimes?

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/jeremy-zier-air-force-sexual-assault/?fbclid=IwAR3yLjeXTpMX2fEAOC-eQf2LNwTbNMT39Sl1SdCp6a3HCPl3ZwKeVSZUdmk

The Air Force preaches 'zero tolerance' of sexual assault. So why is it retaining an airman...

The Air Force decided to retain Master Sgt. Jeremy M. Zier, a public affairs airman who was convicted of abusive sexual contact.

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made Mar 2 at 2021 7:31 PM

Cpl Vic Burk — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 19:31:26 -0500

One rank reduction was not enough in my opinion. It should have been a few ranks taken away. People do really stupid things sometimes but someone of that rank and age had to know better. Then they let him remain on active duty? Good grief! What is this going to do to future victims. Are they going to be afraid to come forward because this guy got a slap on the wrist? I can't even imagine the embarrassment this was to the victim.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 2 at 2021 7:38 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 19:38:23 -0500

I believe in the army a victim can ask for the unit to look into allegations. The other option is the CG gets visibility of the case. I recall a case at Ft Hood and it went to the CG level. The perpetrator was a MSG and they kicked him out like in 2 weeks.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2021 8:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 20:15:40 -0500

...why the hell was this guy retained?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2021 8:27 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 20:27:36 -0500

I have seen the opposite. Every case was looked into and punished to the full extent. If they couldn't prove anything they even gave the innocent a GOMAR.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2021 8:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Mar 2021 20:33:35 -0500

That's the point of the Military Justice Improvement Act - which actually is a bipartisan piece of legislation.

https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/news/press/release/gillibrand-grassley-cruz-offer-bipartisan-military-justice-improvement-act-as-amendment-to-defense-bill

"The Military Justice Improvement Act would professionalize how the military prosecutes serious crimes like sexual assault, which would help remove the systemic fear that survivors of military sexual assault describe in deciding whether to report the crimes committed against them. This legislation would remove the sole decision-making authority over whether serious crimes are prosecuted from the military chain-of-command and give it to independent, trained military prosecutors. Uniquely military crimes, compromising the majority of crimes under the UCMJ, and other non-judicial and administrative remedies would stay within the chain of command. "

She first introduced this (Gillibrand) in 2013. But it doesn't seem to get passed through. They tried to attach it to the NDAA. I can't find anything more about it.

I don't understand how anyone would want someone who is a known sexual predator in their ranks but generally, those who choose to retain in those cases, are the same as that predator.

Commanders have proven they can't handle this task so take it away from them.

Gillibrand, Grassley, Cruz Offer Bipartisan Military Justice Improvement Act As Amendment To...

The official website of U.S. Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. Proud to serve New York in the United States Senate.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 3 at 2021 2:05 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 03 Mar 2021 14:05:03 -0500

Absolutely there needs to be an independent panel not directly in the chain of command. If he has any good qualities (this guy obviously doesn't...he's a @$$ WIPE) the chain of command knows him and will look for a reason to Rehab him. I would almost guarantee an independent panel would reduce him to E-1 with, at a minimum, less than honorable discharge or maybe a dishonorable and jail time. If I was his commander and one of my Airmen came to me with this, I would remove the perpetrator from the workspace until a thorough investigation was completed and then I would prefer charges and bypass an Art 15 pushing for Courts Martial with reduction to the lowest rank and dismissal from the Air Force...we don't have the need or want to retain jackwagons like this...prejudicial to good order and discipline...period.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Mar 3 at 2021 3:40 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Wed, 03 Mar 2021 15:40:54 -0500

Certainly shouldn't be someone directly in the chain of command but can be personnel from other units on the same base IMO.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Mar 3 at 2021 7:01 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Wed, 03 Mar 2021 19:01:29 -0500

There is nothing wrong with the system. If we treat sex-crimes differently, then all crimes must be treated separately. Command bias can apply to any crime. There is an appeal process if one believes the court findings are flawed. Those senior to the court members are the check on careless or misconduct. Civil remedies are always available. As I've been told many times by military lawyers; "We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system."

Response by Wayne Soares made Mar 3 at 2021 9:32 PM

Wayne Soares — Wed, 03 Mar 2021 21:32:49 -0500

Thanks for the question Robert

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 4 at 2021 11:20 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 11:20:37 -0500

People keep asking this same basic question in new and interesting ways. And my answer is the same. If we cannot trust the Chain of Command with military justice decisions for sexual misconduct, then we cannot trust them with military justice decisions, period. Either Commanders are capable of - and responsible for - military justice, or they are not. Sexual misconduct is one of many aspects of military justice, but it is still part of military justice.
If Commanders are responsible for military justice, then they are also accountable. Commanders who screw it up should be corrected, reprimanded, and/or fired, depending on the severity of their fuck up. If Commanders are not responsible for military justice, then fine, let's find someone who is.
But the idea that one specific type of military justice is somehow too hard to administer when every OTHER type of military justice is no problem is just wrong. If Commanders can get murder charges right, and they can get disrespect to an NCO right, and they can get everything else in between right, then they CAN get sexual misconduct right. And they need to be held accountable for when they do not.

The last thing I will say is that we do not have the full story on that case. I am in NO WAY condoning or excusing the SMSgt's behavior. But neither am I jumping to the conclusion that the people who DID have the full facts made the wrong decision. It is entirely possible, even quite likely, that I would disagree with the decision to retain, even once I had the full facts of the case. But short of having the full facts, I cannot make a definitive declaration that this decision was made in error. Society has become VERY quick to rush to judgment, even without all the facts. This is why we see controlling the narrative and "getting your side out first" as being such a powerful tool and one that is seized upon by lawyers in prominent cases again and again. (Off the top of my head, CPO Gallagher, the capitol policeman who was struck by a fire extinguisher that never existed, and just about everything a politician says these days come to mind). I refuse to rush to judgment.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 8 at 2021 1:33 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 13:33:07 -0500

My limited experience with courts martial, shows the process is set up to ensure the "jury" is as impartial as possible. In the case I served on, a General Court Martial, the judge was from outside of the organization and installation. The defense counsel was from the Area Defense Counsel Office. Happened to be a Captain JAG stationed in the same area where the trial was held. The prosecutor was from the installation JAG office. All of the panel members, officers and enlisted, were from organizations outside of the accused's command. We were questioned carefully to establish our ability to render an impartial verdict. I'm assuming that Courts Martial are still conducted with this kind of fairness.

I'm not familiar with retention boards. I did several investigations of junior enlisted personnel who were being recommended for separation, but there was no panel of NCOs or Officers involved. Just the enlisted person, me, and the commander. I tried to be impartial in my investigation, report, and recommendation. Most cases were pretty clear cut with the subject having been busted multiple times for use of illicit drugs or alcohol. Also, nonresponsive to drug or alcohol rehabilitation. A majority of the enlisted people I investigated, simply told me they wanted out. I helped them leave.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 9 at 2021 11:27 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 09 Mar 2021 11:27:31 -0500

Yes, make it environmentally sound. Form a formation, and bring out the gallows and hang the fracker. Nothing tells servicemembers this won't be tolerated like a good old hanging. Why hanging, because rope is both reusable and renewable source. Sick and tired of hearing of this issue, and not enough is being done.