CPT Private RallyPoint Member 38060 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wanted to share this article because I thought it was interesting and really made me think about combat patches. <br /><a target="_blank" href="http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-combat-patch-binary-indicator-or-something-more">http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-combat-patch-binary-indicator-or-something-more</a><br /><br />Any thoughts or comments? 2014-01-14T22:56:32-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 38060

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wanted to share this article because I thought it was interesting and really made me think about combat patches. <br /><a target="_blank" href="http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-combat-patch-binary-indicator-or-something-more">http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-combat-patch-binary-indicator-or-something-more</a><br /><br />Any thoughts or comments?

2014-01-14T22:56:32-05:00 2014-01-14T22:56:32-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 38476

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;div&gt;Full disclosure I only read the first few paragraphs of the article.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;I for one look at someone differently if they have a slick sleeve. &amp;nbsp;Not because I think they are any better or worse for not having deployed, I&#39;m more interested in their story and maybe how they are &quot;getting over&quot;. &amp;nbsp;At least half the time I talk to someone with no patch (Field Grade and SR NCO, not you LT) they are &quot;too cool for School&quot; and don&#39;t wear it. &amp;nbsp;The other half It&#39;s a guy who is in a MOS that doesn&#39;t deploy much and they have spent a lot of time in Korea, &amp;nbsp;non patched deployments and / or lots of time in TDA jobs I wouldn&#39;t want.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;The funny thing is a deployment has doesn&#39;t make you more competent and very few Soldiers have any say if they will deploy or not.&lt;/div&gt;

2014-01-15T22:57:29-05:00 2014-01-15T22:57:29-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 38486

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 10pt;&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Calibri&quot;&gt;Another thing that I look at personally is for all of our<br />prior service soldiers that may have had previous deployments before switching<br />to the army, per AR 670-1 we are not allowed to wear a patch signifying that<br />service. I have numerous soldiers that are currently in my company that have prior<br />deployments. That is why I personally don’t read too much into the combat<br />patch. They are also given to the soldiers that never even the leave the base. I think that it is important to get to know them individually before we decide what their strengths and weaknesses are. That is our role as officers and SNCO’s.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/font&gt;

2014-01-15T23:04:56-05:00 2014-01-15T23:04:56-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 39322

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I do know that lots of soldiers choose not to wear a combat patch for a reason or another. I like to wear mine because I am proud of the things I accomplished during my service. So maybe those that do not wear them are either individuals that didn&#39;t earn one because they dodged a bullet or maybe they don&#39;t want the attention from others asking them &quot; hey where did you get this one?&quot; or something in that nature.

2014-01-17T19:56:22-05:00 2014-01-17T19:56:22-05:00 SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 39331

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&lt;p&gt;While the other respondents on this thread are correct in that a patch does not necessarily make any Soldier &quot;better&quot; than any other, there is one truth to this issue.&amp;nbsp; That is, if a leader has not deployed, how does s/he prepare his/her Soldiers for an upcoming deployment?&amp;nbsp; When your Soldier looks to you and asks you what to expect at any or each stage of a deployment, saying &quot;I don&#39;t know&quot; (after 13 years of this country being at war) seems to somehow not be the right answer.&amp;nbsp; I would certainly lose just a little bit of confidence in my leader if I were in that situation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I deployed twice (full year deployments) in four years.&amp;nbsp; Admittedly, I only went outside the wire once in all that time, but saw, felt, and experienced being mortared and rocketed too many times to count.&amp;nbsp; Does that make me a better or worse leader?&amp;nbsp; I don&#39;t know if I would say either way.&amp;nbsp; BUT I can tell a new Soldier what it is like to deploy and assist him/her through every stage of that deployment.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I get that not everyone is in a MOS/billet that can deploy.&amp;nbsp; However, if one truly WANTED to deploy, there are several methods available to make that happen.&amp;nbsp; The fact that DA had to institute a rule forbidding back-to-back non-deploying assignments (ie., doing recruiting and Drill Sergeant back to back) tells me that too many people were &quot;hiding out&quot; in TRADOC while everyone else left home and family to do the dirty work halfway around the world.&amp;nbsp; So part of that argument is invalid.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Did I WANT to deploy twice?&amp;nbsp; Yes and no.&amp;nbsp; I wanted to do my part, see what it was all about, and certainly get that &quot;combat patch&quot; on my uniform.&amp;nbsp; I didn&#39;t want to leave home and family at all.&amp;nbsp; But, especially after my first deployment, I felt that only deploying once somehow wasn&#39;t fair to those who had already deployed several times.&amp;nbsp; So my second deployment was more a dedication to duty sort of mindset for me.&amp;nbsp; I reasoned that by deploying again, someone else could take that year off to be with family and enjoy being stateside.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So I guess after being at war for 13 years, the real question should be, &quot;how many times have you deployed?&quot;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

2014-01-17T20:08:39-05:00 2014-01-17T20:08:39-05:00 COL Private RallyPoint Member 115439

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Depends on if they are junior or senior. Junior officers and enlisted...no. Seniors...depends on their story. As time goes on we will see less and less combat patches. Our job now is one of readiness, responsiveness and training. I joined in 1995, when there were much fewer combat patches in the ranks. The 1st Gulf War was over and there were some patches rolling around, but not like today. The bottom line to me is that the job of leaders is to prepare their units for the next war. That war may make the last 13 years of COIN look like a joke. That&#39;s not taking anything away from those of us that have been to war 3-5 times. If we took veterans from the Civil War, WWI and WWII and brought them forward in time and told them stories about &quot;our war&quot;, they&#39;d likely laugh at us. God forbid, but the next war could be something like that. It&#39;s our job to build people up, not look at them differently because they don&#39;t have a patch, a CAB or a tab. That&#39;s a sign of weakness and insecurity on the part of a leader. My patch doesn&#39;t make me better than anyone. It is a burden, which compels me to pass the knowledge I have gained to others.

2014-04-30T12:10:21-04:00 2014-04-30T12:10:21-04:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 115456

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I can&#39;t help but consider someone with a combat patch differently than slick sleevers. 0.1% of Americans have deployed into a combat zone. When you see the patch, you know that you have something in common. I can easily have a 30 minute conversation with anyone who has deployed because we all shared some of the same experiences.

2014-04-30T12:21:40-04:00 2014-04-30T12:21:40-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 115473

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think it is really more of a situation that may arrive with certain military occupations. If I went to my S-1 and the NCOIC didn&#39;t have a combat patch I wouldn&#39;t really care. That job whether it be stateside or deployed doesn&#39;t change much. I am sure there would be additional responsibilities that one would undertake while deployed in such a role but it is not a deal breaker. <br /><br />Within combat arms it is a deal breaker. I am such an example. When I commissioned I went to my company as the only PL with deployments and a CIB. I was treated notable different from the other PL&#39;s. This was expected. As soldiers want their leadership to be fully capable of leading them and the presence of a combat patch/CIB would signify that I have been in combat at least once. For this reason I make my soldiers wear their awards.<br /><br />This gets even worse from Infantry officers with the &quot;Tab Check.&quot; Infantry officers will often greet another and while shaking hands they will look as the officers left shoulder for a Ranger Tab. If their is not one there they will be viewed as somewhat inferior. A Infantry officer without a Tab will often find themselves in a staff position.

2014-04-30T12:31:58-04:00 2014-04-30T12:31:58-04:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 116059

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I only look at senior leadership differently if they don&#39;t have one. The reason is how did they think that they can maintain good knowledge and understanding that you can&#39;t get from a book or FM. I did at first get very pissed but I realize some contributed differently. I only draw the line when they tell me how things are suppose to be yet they have never done it in combat real time.

2014-05-01T00:39:46-04:00 2014-05-01T00:39:46-04:00 SSgt Private RallyPoint Member 116096

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think the patch is not a sign of superiority but one that denotes the grave nature of frontline combat. This does NOT diminish the roles of others who serve this country. An acrimonious distinction is corrosive and counterproductive.

2014-05-01T02:24:13-04:00 2014-05-01T02:24:13-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 116132

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If your new to the army then no, but if you been in since the war started then i kinda have to believe you should have gone on atleast one deployment by now. Unless you are on a true non-deployable profile

2014-05-01T06:21:45-04:00 2014-05-01T06:21:45-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 117043

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you have been in the Army since 2000 and you dont have a combat patch. What the hell were you doing? Where were you at? We have 2 wars for 10 years and you couldnt hit ONE deployment. Yeah im looking at you differently.

2014-05-02T10:35:38-04:00 2014-05-02T10:35:38-04:00 COL Private RallyPoint Member 117084

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It really only matters when they start talking shit. I had a general once who's one deployment was Kosovo who went on a rant to a room full of field grades who had fought in Iraq and Afghanistan and we are looking at each other like "who the hell is this guy to tell us what is what?". He had no credibility because he lost his temper and started lecturing on things he had no personal experience on to guys who did. If he had not lost his temper and gone on a rant, it probably would not have been an issue. But no combat patch? No slack given by those who had one.

2014-05-02T11:41:55-04:00 2014-05-02T11:41:55-04:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 117486

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is going to change here in a bit when the wars stop. At my last job I had a LT working for me who had three years in the unit with no deployments because there was no opportunities. Normally if a see a senior CPT or SFC or above with no combat patch my first reaction is someone who shammed out. I know from experience there are case by case basis that they couldn&#39;t deploy. I have no respect for the people who avoided the deployments while I have Soldiers who spent 4 or more years deployed to pickup the slack.

2014-05-02T23:41:32-04:00 2014-05-02T23:41:32-04:00 SSG (ret) William Martin 117513

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I do not view SMs differently who are without a combat patch. I don't like to judge.

2014-05-03T00:20:48-04:00 2014-05-03T00:20:48-04:00 SSG Michael Garner 118004

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yup

2014-05-03T19:13:14-04:00 2014-05-03T19:13:14-04:00 LTC Richard Wasserman 118773

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I first joined, after Viet Nam; I was l guy without a combat patch.

2014-05-04T21:52:20-04:00 2014-05-04T21:52:20-04:00 SFC Jay Gordon 119342

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Before I retired I had enough to wear a different one every day of the week, and that&#39;s not too uncommon now. I usually wore the one that mattered most to me on my Greens. When we went from BDUs to ACUs it didn&#39;t matter at much to me who wore what when. When we transfer back to a garrison Army it will be similar to when I joined in 91, combat patches will be the exceptions and not the rule.

2014-05-05T15:30:03-04:00 2014-05-05T15:30:03-04:00 SFC Michael Hasbun 121539

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I generally use the &quot;fighter pilot&quot; analogy. <br /><br />I view NCO&#39;s and Officers without combat patches as being fully trained pilots, but who only have simulator time. Those with patches are those who&#39;ve actually got behind the stick and flown. One isn&#39;t necessarily better than the other, but there is a clear difference in the level of experience.

2014-05-08T09:13:37-04:00 2014-05-08T09:13:37-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 121638

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Honestly? It depends on the rank. If I see a SSG or above with out a patch I think less of them. If I know that they have been in for over 6years I think this...We have been at war for almost 13 yrs. your lame excuse that. &quot;I kept on trying to volunteer&quot; is dumb and dishonest. Because of you people have had to deploy more than once, some of them have died. All because you are a coward. It is only because people are too polite to call you out on this, that you still live in a world of make believe. Got it some people choose not to wear a patch (I was one for a while) got it this is not aimed at you. Some have an MOS that doesn&#39;t deploy.. RECLASS or shut up

2014-05-08T11:01:15-04:00 2014-05-08T11:01:15-04:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 121658

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I personally try not to jump to conclusions, because as it has been said on here, everyone has a story. It is certainly somewhat jarring to see a senior officer, NCO, or Warrant officer without a combat patch and for many of the same reasons indicated on this thread. Mostly, I look at combat patches, the same way I look at someone's experiences, they are potential commonalities. The same as if I ran into someone who went to my school, is a QM branch, a loggie, or was at the same unit or station I was- similar experiences that allows for a relationship to be built.

2014-05-08T11:27:06-04:00 2014-05-08T11:27:06-04:00 SFC Stephen Carden 121853

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I know guys who, through no fault of their own, have not had the chance to deploy. I also know, however, people that have manipulated the system (extending over and over again to stay in Korea for example)in order not to deploy. I know a 1SG who did a COT from Korea to Japan in order not to deploy. In that case, you are a scumbag. I dare you to tell me how to train for war. I have been there and you haven&#39;t. I have friends who are on their 8th, 9th, or 10th deployment, so I have no sympathy for those who have avoided deploying. I have only been on three deployments myself due to schools and such, and I feel that I haven&#39;t done enough! My son JUST graduated AIT and he is already in Kuwait! He was 8 years old when the war started and he has managed to deploy. Why can&#39;t you again?

2014-05-08T15:04:49-04:00 2014-05-08T15:04:49-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 121882

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I appreciate everyone&#39;s input on this matter. Personally, I have gained some great insight that will help me grow as a leader and I thank you all for your responses.

2014-05-08T15:48:16-04:00 2014-05-08T15:48:16-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 193215

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I don&#39;t view them any different. It&#39;s a shame the Army culture is so caught up on what you have on your uniform. When will people learn that just because someone wears all that stuff it doesnt make them the best Soldier. Some people&#39;s jobs and duty locations allowed them multiple deploymenst and some others didnt.

2014-08-03T12:11:08-04:00 2014-08-03T12:11:08-04:00 SPC Stephen Bobchin 203486

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I'll be honest, I do view people without a combat patch differently, but mainly when it comes to training. Having a slick sleeve commo guy teach a class on reacting to contact, and tell a group of previously deployed medic that this is what it'll be like if they go downrange is mildly humorous, and kind of annoying, especially when they teach the class wrong. <br /><br />That said, on a day to day basis, I care far more about competency shown than whether or not they have a deployment patch, and would much rather have someone who hasn't deployed that knows their job rather than someone who has who can't even put on a tourniquet.

2014-08-14T03:21:33-04:00 2014-08-14T03:21:33-04:00 SGT Kristin Wiley 246731

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>LT, <br /><br />Although I try to view &#39;slick sleeves&#39; without bias it is very difficult for me when I spent most of my career in Fort Bragg where the norm in my unit was 12 months deployment/18 months dwell. There are many individuals out there who have valid reasons not to wear a deployment patch (ie. family crisises, medical issues, etc), but my experience is that these individuals were the minority and would end up on the next deployment or out of the military. Young soldiers may not have had the opportunity to deploy, and that is no fault of their own. <br /><br />My issue, especially in Hawaii, is seeing E-7s, E-8s, E-9s, O-4s and O-5s walking around with no deployment patches when we have been at &#39;war&#39; for over 12 years. How can leaders who have never been through a deployment truly understand their troops who have? And what have these leaders been doing that has kept them away from combat zones? Everytime I ask anyone in Hawaii if they have deployed, their answer is always I&#39;ve been to Japan, Korea, Guam, etc. Yeah, I have too, but those aren&#39;t combat deployments and saying you&#39;ve &#39;deployed&#39; to a combat veteran takes away from the sacrifice&#39;s we have made, and the losses we have incurred. <br /><br />I haven&#39;t been through nearly as much as many combat soldiers, but there are no words to describe having to deal with rockets raining down in the middle of the night, seeing blood and knowing it belongs to a friend, wondering who is going to be standing next to you and how many of them are still in one piece when you finally make it back home. Physical injuries are easier for others to understand then the psychological ones. It bothers me that some senior leaders have never deployed, and yet they claim to know how much we&#39;ve sacrified and what we&#39;ve been through. I look at these leaders with the burning question in my mind &#39;why haven&#39;t you deployed?&#39; and &#39;what was so much more important in your life that younger soldiers had to make that sacrifice on your behalf?&#39; Looking at how many young soldiers we have psychologically scarred from these experiences, it makes me angry that an older more experienced leader who should be able to handle these experiences didn&#39;t have to make that sacrifice.

2014-09-18T19:41:28-04:00 2014-09-18T19:41:28-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 366595

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Grate topic

2014-12-11T20:33:02-05:00 2014-12-11T20:33:02-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 366609

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I wanna have a deployment patch. the military is the mucho environment and what Have on your uniform...is what you are

2014-12-11T20:39:31-05:00 2014-12-11T20:39:31-05:00 LTC Paul Heinlein 366620

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If I&#39;m in danger and need someone to watch my six, I could care less what you are wearing on your right sleeve; You are part of the team...everyone&#39;s time eventually comes.

2014-12-11T20:52:32-05:00 2014-12-11T20:52:32-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 366628

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I will say that I do look at people differently when it comes to slick sleeves, I think all of us do that have been in the military for awhile. Over the past decade or more we have been at war, and it is hard to believe that if you have been in the military since 2001 you would have not deployed. Now I will say that I know that there are some soldiers in some MOS&#39;s that can not help not being deployed, but those jobs are few. If you have been in a combat support MOS then you should have deployed somewhere over you&#39;re career at least once. I will say that I also know soldiers that refuse to wear their combat patch, because they just don&#39;t care to wear it.

2014-12-11T20:56:37-05:00 2014-12-11T20:56:37-05:00 SGT Robert Turner 1053462

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Speaking from a perspective in the Army Intelligence community, those with no deployment patches were usually seen as the ones who hadn&#39;t done there actual job yet. Being a 35F (or former 96B like me) you don&#39;t really get to do your war time job until you deploy. All the exercises in the world will not prepare you fully for doing your job in the real world scenario where real lives on the battlefield depend on your intel. I have nothing against guys with no deployments, but it helps to know that someone beside you has experienced at least some of what I have.

2015-10-20T15:42:06-04:00 2015-10-20T15:42:06-04:00 MSG Douglas Tolliver 1054914

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The simple answer is yes. The reason is that they don&#39;t have a shared experience. Many try to tell you how something needs to be done in a combat zone but they don&#39;t have the patch to show they&#39;ve been there. Some choose not to where one, and that&#39;s fine because it&#39;s optional, but their records reflect their deployment. People who deployed with other branches will typically have some type of ribbon or medal that shows a deployment but, obviously, it&#39;s only visible in the dress uniform.

2015-10-21T10:49:06-04:00 2015-10-21T10:49:06-04:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1346641

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I see a LTC or COL with a slick sleeve it does make me wonder how they managed to be in the Army for 15-20 years and never deploy. I am a guard/reservist and I have deployed 3 times in the past 10 years.

2016-03-02T08:52:29-05:00 2016-03-02T08:52:29-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1605202

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Depends on how old I think they are and what their rank is. The older and the higher with a slick sleeve, the less forgiving I am. I deployed twice, while others I know (one of which was a BG) actively avoided deployment yet think they deserve my personal respect.

2016-06-07T13:16:32-04:00 2016-06-07T13:16:32-04:00 SSG Edward Tilton 2744379

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>That Combat Patch tells me that he/she did their duty under fire. That may not be true but it is an assumption. Without a patch you are an unknown factor.

2017-07-18T22:26:48-04:00 2017-07-18T22:26:48-04:00 MAJ Raymond Haynes 2744586

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Makes me wonder about the Drone Pilot stationed in Arizona, who has killed numerous high value targets. Is a combat patch only if you got sand in your teeth? Granted the guy in Arizona did not get shot at but neither did a great many people who wear the patch. Maybe we should change it to a &quot;I killed the enemy&quot; patch.

2017-07-18T23:49:24-04:00 2017-07-18T23:49:24-04:00 CH (LTC) Robert Leroe 2745306

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Few soldiers have a choice in combat participation. The rest served honorably and are due our respect.

2017-07-19T09:36:28-04:00 2017-07-19T09:36:28-04:00 1SG Harold Piet 2930564

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes, I respect them for being available.

2017-09-19T16:53:47-04:00 2017-09-19T16:53:47-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 4183612

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a junior enlisted, I had spent my days turning to NCOs with combat patches. Not that the &quot;slick sleeve&quot; NCOs were any less competent, but the previously deployed took more time, were more patient, and very focused on ensuring their soldiers were well trained for the tasks at hand. Because they knew what we may or may not be facing down the road.

2018-12-05T06:48:47-05:00 2018-12-05T06:48:47-05:00 2014-01-14T22:56:32-05:00