Does a field grade article 15 automatically give me a general discharge?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 11:43:52 -0500

Does field grade article 15 automatically give me a general discharge? I am ETSing soon and have been worrying about what type of discharge I will get because my plan is to use my G.I. Bill and go back to school as soon as I get out. It’s my first article 15 and I was charged for dereliction of duty, lying to senior officer and falsifying official documents. Thank you!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2020 11:50 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 11:50:53 -0500

best bet is to talk to someone in legal. Since you are being allowed to ETS instead of being chaptered over your AR-15, I would not think that you would automatically get a general discharge. Though, I have to admit, based on your offenses I am slightly surprised that all you got was a FG article 15. I've seen people get court martialed for less. Consider yourself lucky and hope for the best on your discharge.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2020 11:58 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 11:58:06 -0500

Another Service Member concerned about punishment or type of discharge AFTER they have done something wrong, that in no way fits in with any of the Army Values. If only they would think of this stuff BEFORE you commit your acts, things would be so much better for everyone involved. IMO, you get whatever is coming your way. Talk to legal they may have some answers for you.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 5 at 2020 1:14 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 13:14:14 -0500

These are pretty hefty charges you have been convicted of, feel lucky that you did not get CM. As for your answer, speak to the selarationnn BMM office.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2020 1:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 13:19:02 -0500

Short answer is "no it doesn't downgrade your discharge"
Field grade is max reduction to E1, a months pay (1/2 for 2 months) 45 days extra duty and 45 days restriction.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Mar 5 at 2020 1:26 PM

MSG Gary Eckert — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 13:26:50 -0500

ETS like all separations are covered by a chapter in 635-200. ETS happens to be a Chapter 4. From 635-200, para 4-5, "A Soldier being separated upon expiration of enlistment or fulfillment of service obligation will be awarded a character of service of honorable, unless the Soldier is in entry-level status and service is uncharacterized."
So if you keep your nose clean from here on out and make it to ETS, you will received an Honorable Discharge.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Mar 5 at 2020 1:27 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 13:27:48 -0500

Caviet, I’ve been out for a quarter of a century so things may have changed (so the advice to talk to legal is good).

I managed to get two Article 15’s, (one I appealed and the battalion commander agreed that the 1SG was being a dick and overturned it).

Neither effected my honorable discharge, or even being awarded meritorious service medals.

Google “Joe R Hooper” there’s an old saying: “You haven’t had a full career until you’ve gotten an Article 15”

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2020 1:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 13:55:48 -0500

No, if you ETS you will receive an honorable discharge and all your benefits

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Mar 5 at 2020 2:33 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 14:33:49 -0500

No, at your rank, it doesn't even go on your permanent record or show up on your DD214. It will not effect the characterization of your discharge and shouldn't even effect your re-enlistment status, even though you are about to ETS.

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Mar 5 at 2020 5:46 PM

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 17:46:20 -0500

If you aren't given an Honorable Discharge when you ETS apply for an upgrade.

You can upgrade your discharge 3 times.

For the high and might Army values comment I read, stop. The Army has no values and as soon as you hold no value they will discard you.

LDRSHIP is a lie

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Mar 5 at 2020 6:38 PM

SGT Robert Wager — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 18:38:11 -0500

No it does not automatically reduce your discharge. If you have not received punishment yet for that field grade you may describe the why to your commander as matters of extenuating and mitigation of circumstances. It does not excuse the behavior but it could reduce the severity of the punishment.

Unless someone is initiating a chapter packet on you for a pattern of misconduct then you should ETS with an honorable discharge. Now if you have 20+ bad counseling statements and this Article 15 is the culmination of a career filled with bad decisions then you could be headed for a chapter instead of an ETS date. I would ask my NCO support channel directly whether I was going to be allowed to ETS or am I gong to be facing a chapter.

Response by SFC Marshal Gleason made Mar 5 at 2020 7:24 PM

SFC Marshal Gleason — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 19:24:12 -0500

Look, probably nothing will happen with your discharge if you allow to ETS. Now on to the important part, wth were you thinking. One comment I read said you could have been court martialed. But I guess their stuff on you wasn't that strong. A mentored told me once, "if you lie, you steal, you cheat! If you're willing to do one you can do them all". I say get your shit together, remember those three things and never do them! Never allow anyone to do those three things. And remember, if you're always right, you're never wrong!

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Mar 6 at 2020 12:56 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 00:56:22 -0500

Just so you know you were not singled out. In my years of service in the 1980's if you lied to the CO as a NCO (SGT or above) and got caught, FG Article 15 and loss of rank was the minimum punishment. Saw a SGT get reduced for lying to the CO about driving a car belonging to a SPC while that SPC was away on leave........even though he had the SPC permission to drive the car (Army had some hangup over the deal due to rank or something). CO asked him if he was driving the car, he said no .......got nailed in the act of actually driving the car. Reduced to SPC from SGT via FG Art 15. He thought he was treated unfairly and discriminated against due to his ethnicity but seriously it is just the offense of lying to your CO.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 6 at 2020 4:21 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 16:21:31 -0500

No it doesn't automatically cause a reduction in the characterization of service as long as you are not being chaptered as a result of the UCMJ action.
If you are ETS'ing at your normal date then you will most likely receive an honorable discharge. The purpose of Company and Field Grade level UCMJ action is to correct incidents of misconduct without permanent effect to the Soldier.
I remember Commanders denying good conduct medals for Soldiers with UCMJ action but never anyone recommending lower characterizations of service without an accompanying chapter.
I believe the Reg is still AR 635-200.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2020 10:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 22:59:05 -0500

The Article 15 in itself does not dictate the discharge that you will receive. As mentioned, the maximum punishment is: reduction to E1 (E4 and below) reduction of 1 grade for E5 & E6; 45 days of extra duty, 45 days of restriction, forfeiture of 1/2 months pay for two months, and a reprimand (oral or written). However, your entire service record is considered for the type of discharge you receive. I would recommend speaking to legal about your specific case.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2020 3:19 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Mar 2020 03:19:49 -0500

SPC Calma, you WILL receive a honorable discharge upon your ETS. An Article 15 has no bearing on your character of service. Rest easy and I apologize for some of the saints with stripes who gave you a hard time in this post. Good luck with your future young man!

Response by SGT Lenise Hamilton made Mar 8 at 2020 11:10 PM

SGT Lenise Hamilton — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 23:10:58 -0400

Hello SPC Donica, I retired back in the 90's from the military, I'm sure it has not changed dramatically when it comes to article 15 procedures. The worse that could possibly happen is reduction in rank and forfeiture in pay. You stated your ESTing soon. It maybe wise of you to stay out of sight out of mind right about now. Hopefully, when you falsified official documents, it was not of an upper level (TS) classification, if so that could be a major problem for you. Hopefully, your MOS was not within the Military Intelligence Division. If you are, consider your records to be flagged. But, from what I gathered the way your inquiry is reading, this does not fit this occasion. Any who/how, to settle your worries, why don't you find out through your PAC buddies if you have any record flags, then you will know where you stand right about now. Good Luck to You...

Response by PFC David Copeland made Mar 9 at 2020 11:59 PM

PFC David Copeland — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 23:59:27 -0400

An article 15 does not automatically result in a discharge of any type. It is, in legal terms, non-judicial punishment. You do not have to accept an article 15. Instead, you can ask for a court-martial. Better be sure you have evidence in order if you do that! Additionally, an article 15 usually never ends up creating a criminal record, so in most cases, particularly if you are guilty of the charge, suck it up and take your punishment! Colonel No

Response by SGT Bud Mullins made Mar 22 at 2020 5:46 PM

SGT Bud Mullins — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 17:46:44 -0400

I remember during my Military Police years at Fort Knox, KY working as a turn key at the stockade. We would work the 11 pm to 7 am shift and had to stay up all day many times for inspections, officials visiting, etc. I can see why not all men or women now days make it in the military.

Response by SGT Bud Mullins made Mar 22 at 2020 5:51 PM

SGT Bud Mullins — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 17:51:18 -0400

SPC Donica C., NO! An Article 15 is a unit punishment and not a command punishment. It's probably not even on your records and in case it it, it doesn't have anything to do with your discharge. Chances are, if you're still an SPC E-4, you will receive an Honorable Discharge and all entitlements that goes with it.

Response by Lt Col Jim Bemis made Mar 26 at 2020 2:09 PM

Lt Col Jim Bemis — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:09:39 -0400

No article 15, by itself, causes nor determines the type of discharge you get; that first determination may inform your discharge, but does not control it. Assuming the rules in each service are basically the same (which they might not be), if allowed to go to ETS with no further action, you'll get an honorable discharge. If you are a first term military member, and your service decided to discharge you prior to your ETS, they have the option of giving you a general discharge. If they try to give a Under Other Than Honorable Conditions discharge, you should have the right to a hearing. Otherwise, you'll get whichever form of discharge the service wants to give you. That calculation changes if you are in your second or later term; in that case, they might have to give you a hearing even for a general discharge, if you want it. Even in that instance, the service will be to bring in ALL of your "bad paper," including letters of counseling, letters of reprimand, etc. , not just your adjudicated Article 15.

On the other hand, if you have received (or receive) a general discharge, that is considered to be under honorable conditions, which will not affect your GI Bill or veteran's benefits. What it may affect is your ability to get a well-paying job, or even any job, period.

Good Luck.

Response by PFC Teiana Po made Apr 9 at 2020 12:33 PM

PFC Teiana Po — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 12:33:45 -0400

I agree consult legal. It should be an honorable discharge. But you will have a re-enlistment code. If you want to go back in you have to get references. I hope you have a plan before you get out. Be blessed.

Response by PO3 Andrew Kelly made Apr 15 at 2020 2:19 PM

PO3 Andrew Kelly — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:19:38 -0400

It depends on the sentence really. If your CO thinks your actions warranted it you could indeed find yourself looking at a general discharge. I have seen the first two charges be handled with the 45/45 and 1/2 pay route with no further penalty as long as you further kept your nose clean. i would think it matters a great deal as to how serious the final charge is as to what you are facing.

Response by SP5 James Johnson made Apr 16 at 2020 3:24 PM

SP5 James Johnson — Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:24:46 -0400

Short story: I was CQ in Nam one night. I was touring our section of the wire and saw a dark shape stand up in front of me. I dropped to one knee and pulled my 45. I said stop and be recognized. Turned out to be the CO and he was drunk to the max. He cursed me out for pulling on him. Next day he wanted to give me a field grade Art 15 and cut a stripe from me. He found out that because I was a Spec 5 he'd have to go to the battalion commander to do that. He dropped it to a company grade 15 and fined me a months pay. But my best friend was to co clerk and the papers got lost between the co and battalion. I have a honorable discharge and my ex co can GF his self.

Response by SGT Thomas Seward made May 17 at 2020 9:35 PM

SGT Thomas Seward — Sun, 17 May 2020 21:35:05 -0400

This may help answer your questions concerning benefits, but not character of service. If you’ve been reduced in grade and since been promoted your character of service should be eligible for honorable, but your re-enlistment code will probably be on the order of RE-3.
Best bet is to speak with your NCO’s and commander. Worst case scenario is you have to go through the VA to get your discharge status upgraded.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/benefits/character_of_discharge.asp

Discharge Requirements for Education Benefits To receive VA education benefits and services through the Montgomery GI Bill program or Post-9/11 GI Bill program, the Veteran’s character of discharge or service must be honorable.
To receive VA education benefits and services through any other VA educational benefits program, including the Survivors’ and Dependents’ Educational Assistance (DEA) program, the Veteran’s character of discharge or service must be under other than dishonorable conditions (e.g., honorable, under honorable conditions, general).

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

Response by SGT Doug Blanchard made May 17 at 2020 9:46 PM

SGT Doug Blanchard — Sun, 17 May 2020 21:46:40 -0400

You are damn lucky all you got was a FG Article 15. My brother was court marriages and was dd for alcohol abuse. He had already been put through a 30 day substance abuse several years earlier in the Army. He started drinking again, was put through a 30 day substance abuse program. He received a FG Article 15 and was confined to base for 30 days. He broke restriction and was picked up by civilian authorities for drunk driving. That is when he was court marriages and dishonorable discharged. He only had two years to go until retirement.
So as I already stated, you were damn lucky to not have been court marriages for what you did. Because of your actions, as far as I am concerned, you do not deserve the title of Veteran.

Response by CPT William Jones made Aug 22 at 2020 12:02 AM

CPT William Jones — Sat, 22 Aug 2020 00:02:28 -0400

I don’t think so but it doesn’t prevent it. Also with a general you don’t lose al benefits. I don’t know what discharge gets what though