Does a soldier remain flagged for ABCP if they PCS'd and his last unit did not upload the supporting documents?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 06:06:37 -0400

Was also wondering if the soldier is not taped by someone who was trained by an MFT / not on a memo stating they were trained (IAW AR 600-9) , is that H/W valid? My unit's ABCP program is all messed up, just trying to make sure the soldiers are getting a fair shot.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2019 6:15 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 06:15:21 -0400

So, it is in the regulation that it needs to be done a certain way, all that soldier has to do is walk over to IG and say something. That is part of IGs job; to ensure that units are following guidance provided in the regs, if they are not then that is when they will get involved and fix it.

For his last unit stuff, I would get with that chain of command to see if they have the supporting documents, which they should still have his packet. They didn't upload it so that is on them for not doing their job correctly.

If they do not have the documents, I would start over and give the soldier another shot. That is just me though, 1SG can always say otherwise.

Other than that, him being flagged without documentation to support it and then him getting H/W the way he did, all he has to do is go to IG about it.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2019 12:42 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 12:42:43 -0400

I'm all for the Soldier getting a fair shot, but do you have any reason to believe that he would have passed that tape test if it was conducted by an MFT or someone similarly trained at the TMC?

The point here is that your or he should go to the IG if you are concerned that a unit was not following a reg and getting it wrong for the Soldiers as a result, and you want to fix the unit, but it still won't help his own case if he can't pass tape, and trying to get the flag lifted on a technicality should not be the reason for submitting an IG complaint. IG will burn a couple hundred hours on this, and probably determine that while not trained by an MFT or appointed by memo, the Soldiers conducting the tape tests performed the tests within the guidelines of AR 600-9 and produced accurate results, and they will provide the unit commander with a set of recommendations on how to remain in compliance with proper training, appointment memos and uploading a copy of the DA 5500/5501 with the DA 268. And they will probably remain in compliance until the next CO shows up and they miss a few of the 50-60 required appointment memos for everything.

That said, the flag is transferable, and the gaining unit will see it, and will want to do a new HT-WT as soon as possible, and when they see that supporting docs are missing, they will upload the new ones if he still fails tape.
In short, the next test at the gaining unit, if done correctly, is the fair shot.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2019 1:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 13:24:44 -0400

There are no supporting documents to upload and nowhere to upload them to. Those documents you're referring to are only used to process an ABCP separation. As you said, your unit's program is all messed up and so are many other unit's programs. The person can be flagged and not have the correct documentation, but they can't be separated without the correct documentation, if you understand what I'm saying. As for uploading, there is no place to upload the documents for a current flag. Emilpo only creates the flag, it doesn't store data. OMPF/Iperms won't accept those documents unless it's part of an approved separation file. No JAG at the gaining unit command is going to accept a separation without the supporting documents from the previous command, and those documents being in correct accordance with the regulations.
So, while the SM will remain flagged, it would be almost impossible for the next unit to use that as a grounds for separation.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Oct 7 at 2019 10:46 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 10:46:55 -0400

According to regulation concerning FLAG's, an overweight FLAG is transferable. The SM is also required to take an APFT/Height and weight within 90 days of reporting to their new unit. usually, the Battalion Aid Station has qualified personnel to administer the "Tape test", and the Company should also have an NCO qualified as well (Additional duty). You can also attempt to contact his last unit, and ask them to forward the documentation. I would speak to the 1SG regarding this discrepancy in your ABCP program, as I am fairly certain that your Battalion level tracks PT and Height and weight failures (It is a reportable item to higher during Command and Staff meetings), and getting this program correct is a very important thing.

Another aspect you have brought up is giving your SM a "Fair shot". If this SM had a 268 submitted for being overweight, and then PCS'ed, you could ask the 1SG to inquire with S-1 as to when the 268 was submitted, It is unfortunate, but not unheard of, for a flag to not be lifted by accident. I assume it doesn't need to be stated that if it seems the SM is borderline, that you counsel the SM in regards to this.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Oct 7 at 2019 2:31 PM

CSM William Everroad — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 14:31:38 -0400

The easiest way to fix this is have the Soldier get taped. If they are compliant submit a 268 to have the flag removed, since PCSing they are probably not already enrolled in the unit's ABCP and thus will not be hurt by not making progress if they are not compliant.