Does any other combat vet find it hard working in the civilian world?

2016-05-03T13:16:22-04:00

Response by SFC(P) John McLaughlin made May 3 at 2016 1:18 PM

2016-05-03T13:18:59-04:00

I transitioned to state corrections officer. It was the easiest way for me.

Response by SFC Andrew Miller made May 3 at 2016 1:25 PM

2016-05-03T13:25:07-04:00

My first job after retirement was as a contractor in Afghanistan. I don't recommend for everyone, but it was a good stepping stone for me. I also spent a lot of time in my last year of service preparing for civilian life.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made May 3 at 2016 1:35 PM

2016-05-03T13:35:38-04:00

I took a job in auto manufacturing. I put in earplugs, thanks to military I have some great ones, and I don't have to talk to anyone if I don't want to. The job itself is not very difficult or intensive. However, working with civilians is an adjustment. Especially when they ask about my service with sometimes very probing questions. Thankfully the company is very veteran friendly and I am not the only veteran there.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made May 3 at 2016 1:41 PM

2016-05-03T13:41:23-04:00

I work for the Army as a combat safety and now for the navy as a safety specialist

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 2:04 PM

2016-05-03T14:04:02-04:00

That is why I went in the security field. It is still semi military and there are many vets that I work with.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 2:32 PM

2016-05-03T14:32:03-04:00

SFC Andrew Dowell I was discharged in June 1972, when there was no love lost between the military and civilians. I worked in the civilian world, but I was not a civilian. Once a Marine, Always a Marine. I have a real problem putting up with petty B.S., so I have to sometimes restrain myself from saying anything. I worked on the Space Shuttle program, but I never was like everyone else, and felt a lot more comfortable around active duty personnel and veterans.

Response by MAJ David Potter made May 3 at 2016 3:04 PM

2016-05-03T15:04:03-04:00

I left the civilian career world to mobilize for combat three separate times. It was fascinating to go from a senior manager in financial services with MBA from BC to combat then back. What did I learn? That contrary to what people say the civilian world really does not support mobilizations. At the end of the day of you are not there you will be passed over. I also learned that you will never be looked at the same way. Regardless of how you interact you are the person who chose to go to combat and most in white collar world will look at you as defective. Lots of misconceptions on the civilian side. Overall I regret nothing as my tours were a profound learning experience. I also changed industries and focus. It has been a fascinating journey. I was lucky to have college and grad school done as well as years of work experience. I have no idea how many of you start all over and make the transition. Much respect for being able to do that.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made May 3 at 2016 3:49 PM

2016-05-03T15:49:23-04:00

SFC Andrew Dowell To me my biggest hurdle was expecting the same from civilians as i did from military.

Response by SGT William Howell made May 3 at 2016 4:10 PM

2016-05-03T16:10:10-04:00

For me it is a little bit of both. Taking direction from those above me is easy. My bosses know when they give me marching orders that the job will get done and it will get done right. Because of this I have moved quickly up the food chain.

Not calling bullshit is hard. Because I am a combat vet I get certain lead way that others in the same position do not get. I get to express my opinions and give alternate ideas much more openly. They understand I am a get'er done guy, not the guy you take to the board meeting.

I can honestly say I am the only sales guy that you will ever see in golf slacks working a milling machine because the order has to go out today.

My bosses recognize that my loyalty to the company is real and honest. Customers recognize that I have their best interest at heart and I am there for them.

Those things were all learned from my time in the Army and in combat.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 4:43 PM

2016-05-03T16:43:04-04:00

Not typically. The hardest difficulty veterans like myself have come across are finding the area where people stand. We are brought up with the mentality of, "stay in your lane." Well, the difficulty in the civilian world is that there is no structure. There are only supervisors and "seniority". It is really difficult to keep someone in their place without stepping on someone's emotions or speaking down to them like a child because they haven't been exposed to our lifestyle.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made May 3 at 2016 7:15 PM

2016-05-03T19:15:54-04:00

My answer is "at first". I slowly got acclimated to the "take your time" attitude. It is also hard to get used to NOT being in charge.

However, I have found it can be just as difficult working with other vets who are not submariners. I left the nuke world to get back to my first love ... computers. So I'm typically working with people who have no clue about the life of submariners much less the nukes. And then of course I just spent a week with a bunch of sailors who have never been to sea at all. This included a couple of chiefs. One was talking about getting out because the Navy was so hard. WHAT????? I had to call her on that one. "You have never been to sea and probably will NEVER go to sea and yet you say the Navy is hard????? Dang. If I had that in front of me I would have stayed in until they carried me out."

After time you get used to the way the people who have never been in uniform act. They really don't get the sacrifice that service members who have been deployed in any branch have made. I've even had a civ tell me I should be ashamed of my service. Flash back to Viet Nam era.

Hang in there.

Response by MCPO Katrina Hutcherson made May 3 at 2016 9:00 PM

2016-05-03T21:00:25-04:00

After 4 years of active duty, I affiliated with the reserves. I have always found working with civilians difficult. They rarely have the same type of work ethic as the military and they often think following work rules is an option. Unions are something I've learned to hate. It seems like their main purpose is to protect members who are being legitimately disciplined. I didn't join the union but union dues were deducted from my pay because the union had won a "fair share" clause that claimed that all employees benefited from the unions pay contract. The union also grieved management on my behalf twice when I was given an assignment that I had no problem doing but they claimed should have been done by someone called in for overtime!
As a state employee, I was lucky to receive 22 days of paid military leave a year. I went on two Title 10 deployments to combat zones but I was in rear areas and didn't see combat. When I returned to my job as a Lieutenant with the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Corrections my prison held a pot luck party for me my first day back to work. In 2005, the Director of the Department also held a reception in the state Capital for all the Departments Reservists that had deployed for OEF and OIF and we were presented with engraved Ohio state flag boxes that inmates had made. After receiving so much support, you can imagine my surprise when I was called to my Warden's office where he told me he would like to promote me to Captain but only if I could decide who I wanted to work for. He said he needed his supervisors present and I already had enough time to retire. I told him that the military experience I brought to the table benefited the prison. I also told him having reservists available to meet military contingencies was cost effective and saved everyone from paying more taxes. Then he told me he understood that completely because he was a volunteer member of the ESGR (Employer Support of the Guard and Reserves). And there I was with no witness. I was flabbergasted to say the least.

Response by Capt Michael Greene made May 3 at 2016 9:16 PM

2016-05-03T21:16:29-04:00

It's not just combat. I was an Army brat, Navy E, and Air Force O who spent most of my career overseas or at sea. I came to the US twenty years ago. I find it impossible to fit into a working population that isn't dedicated, motivated, qualified, and credentialed.

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made May 3 at 2016 9:38 PM

2016-05-03T21:38:54-04:00

Just takes time to readjust your perspective. It is wicked different, but you carry a bag of resilience and ability to adapt.

Response by SPC Kenneth Koerperich made May 4 at 2016 12:48 AM

2016-05-04T00:48:37-04:00

Very hard. From my time in, you learned how to lead and to speak your mind. In the civilian world, way to may people don't like it when you speak your mind, specially if it contradicts them, or if they are management. Way to many times I've "Crushed" toes/feelings w/ my ability to NOT be a PC person. IMO most are to "pussified" in the civilian world, and run to higher ups to get you reprimanded/fired. That's why I chose Security after my second year out. Got tired of being PC & having to bite my tongue around STUPID PEOPLE!

Now I just work on my own. Give my 2 cents, & 99% of the time it effects nobody as a lot of my Company is Ex Military. Since we know how to take things in stride I can speak up & not be un PC.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2016 5:40 AM

2016-05-04T05:40:52-04:00

Add to the fact that some of us are seniors and they do not say it, but they DO think it. SFC Andrew Dowell

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made May 6 at 2016 12:28 PM

2016-05-06T12:28:24-04:00

I notice I have to slow my work down because I don't socialize enough and tend to get called anti social...I'm sorry I'm here to work.

Response by PFC Dalton Rupert made May 25 at 2016 10:05 AM

2016-05-25T10:05:46-04:00

I do find it difficult to work in the civilian world, I once did retail and there were so many times I wanted to change or adapt something for the better of production, store morale, etc. but I was blocked by high management due to me trying to bring my co-workers spirits up on a slow or hard day at work.

Response by PO3 Sandra Gomke made May 25 at 2016 11:08 AM

2016-05-25T11:08:57-04:00

My husband has been out of the Marines for quite some time and is still frustrated by the way the civilian world works. If I had a penny for everytime he started with "when I was in the Marines we would have.....". It seems that being in the military, especially combat, can be very black and white. Do what you're told, do what you must do and have your brother's six. In the shades of grey civilian world you have to watch your own back because no one else will. The boss says "Do this!", then "I didn't tell you to do that!". And when you try to do the right thing, there's no appreciation.
As I'm reading the above comments, my suggestion to anyone leaving to go work in the civilian world should look hard for a position that offers the structure he came to know in the military. Businesses run by vets is a good place to start. Law enforcement, DOC, security. Hang in there!!!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 2:31 PM

2016-06-01T14:31:45-04:00

No, I was able to find and keep a job that I enjoy and provides lots of ability to progress and learn.

Response by SFC Josh Weatherbie made Nov 2 at 2016 6:04 AM

2016-11-02T06:04:50-04:00

Yes....how do civilians make it through the day, hahha? I think to myself often because if I spoke my thoughts more, I'm sure I'd be "still actively seeking employment". It's tough to watch and witness a 20 year old not know their numbers to their house, only know the street name. It's tough seeing how inattentive most people are about their surroundings or about our Great Nation. But then there are those who are now civilians who were in the military who are the best, and those folks make my day!

Response by PO1 Darren Martin made Jul 10 at 2021 3:06 AM

2021-07-10T03:06:48-04:00

Yes I work at a long/short hedge fund and I have been retired for a good amount of time now but I will say some of the crap I put up with from coworkers if this was 15 years ago I would beat the &$&$!!!! out of them. I deal with “intellectuals” who have attitudes especially for anyone who did not go the conventional route: Phillips Academy, Princeton, investment Bank 2 yrs, then a stint at Harvard Business School.

I’ve had multiple run ins with coworkers warning them they sound like jagoffs or are burning relationships and are short sighted.

I very rarely ever meet other OIF & OEF vets if I do it’s a little walk down memory lane even for a few minutes. I do try and set a good example for civilians to show that veterans especially on the enlisted side are highly quantitative.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 10 at 2021 12:31 PM

2021-07-10T12:31:27-04:00

I was not looking forward to corporate America. Ethics and values are paramount. Fortunately, when I retired from the army, I was able to stay retired.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Jul 10 at 2021 3:14 PM

2021-07-10T15:14:38-04:00

Generally speaking, I simply "don't play well" with civilians. What I hate more than anything is what they frequesntly say - "I wanted to join, BUT ...." or, "I was going to join, BUT!"
Aside from that, it's the near constant back-biting among them. When I first became head of security, severl security personnel would come to me, or stop me somewhere in the (steel) mill to tattle on their peers. Typically, I would respond with, "Write me a statement, and SIGN YOUR NAME." I'd get a shocked look with a comment like, "Oh, I don't want him to know I told you anything," to which I'd reply, "IT's YOUR JOB!" Most of it was petty BS, and only once was it to turn-in a peer for some serious pilferage, and that person only did it to save his own hide, but he too was canned within a week (borrowing money from other, non-security employees).