Does anyone have a counseling statement for lack of communication and INTENTION to go AWOL? Or should those be two different event oriented?

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 19:09:10 -0400

I have a Cadet that failed to properly utilize the CoC to ask me if he could be excused from Annual Training to attend a months-long internship across the country. He's known about the internship for months, but waited to tell the unit until today, two days after he had left.

Apparently he initially called our brand new training NCO to get his orders rescinded, and upon being told that wasn't possible at that NCO's level, attempted to call the Commander once before taking matters into his own hands and just deciding to go anyway. He knows as a "3rd LT" in our unit that all the Os including him report to me as I am the XO.

My CDR is understandably pissed, and wants me to counsel him so we can begin the process to get him moved to a different unit. Should I counsel him for failure to communicate with chain of command about his plans now, and then give him another for being AWOL once AT starts, or roll both the counselings into one? Anyone have a counseling example for failure to communicate/plan/set an example, so that I don't have to recreate the wheel?

Response by CPT Griff Tatum made Jun 4 at 2019 7:15 PM

CPT Griff Tatum — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 19:15:04 -0400

A counseling statement is just documention that a conversation was had. As soon as he leaves or commissions out of the unit he can rip. And if the training NCO works for you/ the CO, then counsel him on why he’s adjusting his orders in the first place. He shouldn’t have initiated an internship knowing that he had military obligations. No one held his hand while he signed....

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2019 7:18 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 19:18:11 -0400

The counseling will only go as far as you can throw it once he's out of cadet command. Have you initiated conversations with his cadet CoC?

Response by SFC Marc W. made Jun 4 at 2019 7:28 PM

SFC Marc W. — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 19:28:08 -0400

If this is how he/she acts as a cadet, I don't want them "leading" my platoon. This is how we get LT's that murder a village.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2019 8:52 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:52:53 -0400

If I'm reading this right, he had orders to report. I see not only AWOL charge but also Failure to go, failure to obey a lawful order, and conduct of unbecoming. So my question is, why mess around with a counseling? He is a grown adult and knows what is expected of him. Kick him out. You are then sending the message to others that this will not be tolerated.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 5 at 2019 3:40 AM

SSG Brian G. — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 03:40:50 -0400

If I understand your above correctly this cadet knew about this movement, knew about his pending internship, failed to make the proper adjustments in a timely manner and then missed movement to AT. You could roll this into one but that is a lot to put on one and honestly it is two separate instances even though they are linked. One is/has happened now and the other will occur when he misses movement, being AWOL. Break it up into two, heck you could break it into three to be perfectly honest. My question is was there an explicit order to him ie all the cadets as to the chain of command and how things flow?

#1
Cadet Blank knew about Annual Training, cite relevant memorandum with date given to cadets. Cadet Blank knew that he had a schedule conflict that would prevent him from attending AT and chose to not avail himself of the CoC in a timely manner to make the appropriate coordinations and necessary changes to orders.

#2
Cadet Blank on (insert date) was informed of Annual Training and date of departure. Cadet Blank missed AT commencement on (insert date) and did not have prior permission from command to be absent of and from training.

You could do a 3rd for failure to follow orders

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2019 12:01 PM

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 12:01:53 -0400

I've just gotten off the phone with the Cadet. I informed him that his orders would not be rescinded and that if he failed to show up for AT, the consequences for him would get much worse. As it is, he has several counseling statements coming down the line, as well as other consequences. I also called and left a message with his senior ROTC instructor asking him to call me. Maybe hearing it come from his Cadre will hold more weight then coming from me. He expressed confusion as to why simply calling the training NCO wasn't enough. Can't believe I had to explain to an MS4 how chain of command works.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2019 12:06 PM

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 12:06:53 -0400

For anyone who is curious,or who finds themself in this position as an XO or CDR, I was able to find a briefing that made the argument that a paid internship is covered under USERRA, which I sent to the Cadet as proof that his employer needs to let him return for AT. So he can't use that as an excuse if he decides not to show up. Sorry for the mangled thumbnail; it's a PDF.
https://cdn.ymaws.com/http://www.roa.org/resource/resmgr/LawReviews/2016/16020-LR.pdf

16020-LR.pdf

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Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2019 12:19 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 12:19:15 -0400

Turn and burn this Cadet. Failure to communicate. Circumventing the Chain of Command. Failure to Report. AWOL. Sounds like perfect grounds to be removed from the ROTC program.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2019 12:39 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 12:39:58 -0400

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member - good questions & post. Some people are just not leaders period, he's a cadet/university student & likely immature by the actions taken. He should receive a counseling on Form DA4856 and counseled as others have stated. He should be given a counseling & follow-up plan to keep the unit more informed of the schedule going forward. Weekly calls/check-ins could be recommended as a course of action/follow up plan. All can be documented on the DA4856.

Screwed up, yes it was! But the Cadet should and needs to be given the opportunity to improve performance & prove they have learned something by the mistake in missing movement/Annual Training. Even though it states on the order that not following orders is subject to UCMJ action. I've never seen an UCMJ at a Reserve or National Guard unit I have been in unless the Soldier is a "non-participant" and doesn't ever attend drill.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2019 8:45 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:45:14 -0400

So let me get this straight. The 3rd Lt. As you’ve stated didn’t show for AT and you want to start the process to move him to another unit? Help me to understand that philosophy. Where I come from, we deal with issues like this, counseling’s, reprimands etc... we don’t pass our problem children off to another unit.

Response by MAJ Geiter Dunn made Jun 11 at 2019 8:51 PM

MAJ Geiter Dunn — Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:51:01 -0400

It's not lack of communication. It's AWOL, disobeying orders, missing movement, and there's probably other charges that can be added, details dependent. I wouldn't counsel, I would at a minimum Article 15. This is conduct that has no place in the Army. Yes, they are Cadidiots, but you see describing a cadet that places personal comfort and decisions above "needs of the Army". There is no place in the Army for a soldier who does that. Even once.