Does anyone have advice for shooting with iron sights?

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 18:49:29 -0400

I am in the process of trying out for the sniper section within my unit and one of the requirements is shooting expert using iron sights. I have always shot expert with the 68 and acog but I'm really struggling to master iron sights .I was just wondering if the forum had any advice/wisdom that could assist me ?

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made May 6 at 2015 6:54 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Wed, 06 May 2015 18:54:37 -0400

Most of the fundamentals are the same. One of the problems I ran into was losing a proper sight picture. Put your nose in and for the love of God, don't move it. Once you get a good sight picture, don't lift, touch or otherwise shift your head unless you have to. I shot expert every time and that was a big part of it (I think, anyway!).

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 6 at 2015 6:59 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 06 May 2015 18:59:15 -0400

That is clearly an NCO question... likely a Drill Sergeant. Or perhaps an Army Marksmanship Unit Soldier. Or, and old Soldier, as many of us grew up without optics. Good luck!!!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 6 at 2015 7:01 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 06 May 2015 19:01:50 -0400

Focus on fundamentals. Develop consistency. If there is a local civilian range, use it. More time behind the gun, using good practice will just make you better.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 7:08 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 19:08:02 -0400

You have to be absolutely consistent with your sight picture using iron sights. Find your cheek weld and own it. Use the nose to charging handle or mark the butt stock with tape. A slight change in the sight picture can have a big effect on the longer range targets. I also recommend getting amber eye pro. I find that color works well to reduce contrast and makes the targets stand out better.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 7:13 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 19:13:44 -0400

funny, I have the exact opposite problem, can't shoot worth a darn with a 68, god's gift to marksmanship with irons. My advice is blink, your eye goes through a lot more stress with irons.

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 6 at 2015 7:15 PM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Wed, 06 May 2015 19:15:10 -0400

Spend as many rounds as they will let you: zeroing. Even if you think you are good, shoot more. If allowable, put whiteout on front sight post.

Response by SGT James Elphick made May 6 at 2015 7:23 PM

SGT James Elphick — Wed, 06 May 2015 19:23:04 -0400

Sight picture has been covered but I feel all of the fundamentals are important when it comes to iron sights. I feel like other optics are more forgiving of slight variations, iron sights, not so much. So make sure your trigger pull is good, watch your breathing, and as everyone else has said, watch that sight picture

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 7:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 19:39:25 -0400

Of course fundamentals. For steady position to keep the same sight picture, use your sling to help minimize muzzle movement. Kinda hard to explain but Google using your sling for steady position. This will only help if you prone unsupported which I am assuming you will be shooting. Also, greater distances use the 6 o'clock hold method. Again, Google this to see what I am talking about, can't explain it in a few words. Google the Army Marksmanship Unit webpage as well, they have a plethora of knowledge on there. Last advice, practice, practice, practice!!

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 8:14 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 20:14:18 -0400

Snap in time!!!! Shooting expert happens before you ever let a live round fly. Fundamentals yes, but get your snap in time. You would have to tell me why you aren't getting expert. Example where your shots are landing and what the groups look like, what's the distance, so many variables. What weapon are you shooting?

Response by Cpl Kristoffer Mischel made May 6 at 2015 9:01 PM

Cpl Kristoffer Mischel — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:01:51 -0400

I was a advanced combat marksmanship instructor. One of my duties was to train and coach Marines in static qualification ranges and we were only allowed to use irons. You want to keep your front site post in the center of your rear sight aperture both vertically and horizontally. Additionally you want to blur the target behind the sights, keeping your focus on the front sight post. Your front sight post should be aimed center mass of the intended target. Make sure, as with shooting with optics, to keep control of your breathing and have the shot break after you breath out, at your natural respiratory pause. Make sure, as with shooting with optics, use the tip of your finger on the trigger and slowly squeeze the trigger, do not pull it.

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made May 6 at 2015 9:28 PM

SSgt Dan Montague — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:28:50 -0400

Nothing against you Pfc, I wish you luck. But has the Army and Marines lost the concept of basic marksmanship to the point our younger troops don't know how to engage with basic iron sights?

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made May 6 at 2015 9:36 PM

GySgt Joe Strong — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:36:20 -0400

See especially chapters 4, 8, & 9
Marksmanship is repeating fundamentals perfectly and consistently.
http://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/TBS/MCRP%203-1A%20Rifle%CobbRing94.pdf

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made May 6 at 2015 9:59 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:59:36 -0400

I only ever shot with iron sights for qualification and fired expert 3 times in a row. It is all about the fundamentals. Sight picture, steady breathing, you have to really work on "snapping in" and get comfortable in your shooting positions.

You also need good dope on your rifle. There is no substitute for that either. Lots of little things add up to being in the black.

SSgt Dan Montague . My son is still in the Marines. They still use iron sights on known distance (table 1) firing (200, 3000 and 500 yards). They use optics on table 2 firing as I understand it.

Response by LTC Gavin Heater made May 6 at 2015 10:16 PM

LTC Gavin Heater — Wed, 06 May 2015 22:16:42 -0400

I learned to shoot a rifle with iron sites and a pistol with iron sites when I was 14. All the basics others mentioned were key to shooting squirrel sized targets at distance. When I applied my skills to an M16A1 at 20, sight picture, breathing and trigger squeeze helped me qualify Expert. I stayed with iron sights until age 40, when fielded with optics. I actually found them cumbersome at first, but learned to over-rely on them. So, bottom line, practice the basics and shoot as many rounds as you can. Good marksmanship is very perishable. By 49 I could still qualify expert with a pistol, but my rifle skills degraded to sharp shooter. Just too hard for me to see all the far targets anymore

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 10:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 22:23:16 -0400

PMI PMI PMI. Can't say that enough. Break out the book, get back to basics. Washer/dime drills. Breathing excersises (look for your natural pause). Good cheek weld. Trigger squeeze.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made May 7 at 2015 12:56 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Thu, 07 May 2015 12:56:59 -0400

Maintain a proper sight picture, breath control and trigger squeeze.

Response by Cpl Ron Ortiz made May 7 at 2015 5:21 PM

Cpl Ron Ortiz — Thu, 07 May 2015 17:21:13 -0400

It's all about Brass
Breathe
Relax
Aim
Stop
Squeeze
I am an Iron Sight Marine, currently I rotate between my BUIS and my optics. In a short range environment my Fixed sights are comfortable to me. I imagine the ACOG is your go to sight. As I transition from optics to iron I average about 500 rounds a month.
Create a regime, Running to contact, Barrier shooting, fixed position. Use both types of sights so the transition becomes normal.

Response by CSM Thomas Ray made Mar 12 at 2020 10:16 PM

CSM Thomas Ray — Thu, 12 Mar 2020 22:16:49 -0400

Good cheek weld, even mark with tape, concentrate on the front sight (most common mistake) trigger control, front sight centered.

Response by CSM Thomas Ray made Nov 22 at 2023 7:17 AM

CSM Thomas Ray — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 07:17:42 -0500

When I was teaching markmanship, some of the things that were problems were: proper sight picture, proper trigger control on respiratory pause, concentrating on the front sight rather than the target. You should be able to look at your target and see which fundamentals you are missing. Good advice from previous posts.