Does God exist? Or, is there a God?

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:01:34 -0400

What are the best arguments for or against the existence of God?

I mean an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent Supreme Being -- the eternally and necessarily extant Creator of the universe.

Atheists, Theists, Agnostics, Polytheists, Pantheists and anyone else are all welcome to weigh in!
I'm not asking what you believe, I'm asking about the best arguments for or against the existence of God.

To clarify omnibenevolence, I mean simply 'perfect goodness,' not "the quality of being kind and generous towards everyone and everything." CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 12 at 2015 2:10 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:10:17 -0400

I'm not an expert but there were times I should have been dead. Gets you thinking. Take a look at kids. They do stupid stuff every day that can get them killed, but for the most part it doesn't happen. Something is affecting the equation.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 2:13 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:13:06 -0400

I believe God does exist. And I think the best proof is inside our bodies and in nature. Believing that a big bang resulted in the complex "thing" such as the human body is kind of "out there" for me. We are created in His image. Same for nature: animals, trees, ecosystems, air we can all breathe, etc., etc., etc., and on and on. I don't see that happening without God.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 2:16 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:16:06 -0400

1) Everything that began to exist had a cause.
2) The universe began to exist.
3) Therefore, the universe had a cause.
The most controversial premise is clearly premise 2. With the current paradigm of Big Bang cosmology, it is looking pretty good. Note that the argument does not yield the deity of most major religions. Further arguments would be required to augment that perspective. I personally believe in an impersonal deity, synonymous with the Logos/Fate/Providence of the ancient Stoics. Nevertheless, I believe careful philosophical reasoning makes metaphysical materialism untenable for many reasons.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 2:20 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:20:55 -0400

For me I come from a background with varied beliefs. I will say for me personally, I think God exists. For me it's not in the same form as others believe. I know that when I have prayed and asked for strength, protection, faith, and courage, I've not been let down. I believe it is my strong faith that has blessed me in areas of my life when I thought all was lost. I'm truly grateful for the blessings I've received. I'm not perfect, but I try to do good every day and not hurt anyone. I would say don't get hung up on stereotypes, if you believe in your heart and walk a good path, you are halfway there my friend.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 2:29 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:29:29 -0400

Before you can believe that God does not exist you must first believe he does.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 2:44 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:44:25 -0400

Both of my parents are missionaries and I got to grow up overseas in missions for basically my entire life. I would say that I have seen to much to not believe in God, but that's my own take on the events of my life.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 3:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:04:09 -0400

I absolutely believe he exists. I have a very personal relationship with him. I believe that religion has aided the nonbeliever. It boils down to faith. I ask an atheist if they had faith and their answer is no until I prove to them that they actually do in doctors, family, friends... I have faith on someone that can not be seen but definitely can be felt. There are too many things that have happened in my life to discount a higher being. God and science can coexist. I believe Einstein even stated something to that effect.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 3:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:11:57 -0400

I have to ask one question . If you have been shot and stabbed and run over by a truck left for dead and poisoned and run over again . Do you really think God did not have a hand in keeping you alive? How many times do you think that God has to prove to you of his existence ?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 12 at 2015 3:17 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:17:04 -0400

We have tried these threads and quickly see things deteriorate. Make nice, no personal attacks, no recruiting others to gang up and attack members, etc. High School was a long time ago. If you get called out on your behavior or actions by an admin and continue, expect hurt feelings.

Matthew 22:36-40 - "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 3:20 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:20:12 -0400

YES

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Apr 12 at 2015 3:25 PM

SFC Walter Mack — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:25:23 -0400

I have seen the hand of God in my own life. It's hard for me to communicate those experiences and answers to prayer, as well as the influence of the Holy Spirit within my life.

My best argument is that if concrete proof exists, what then is the value of faith? If you want to see proof, then try faith. I believe that God will reveal himself to anyone that truly wishes for him to be within their life. The Holy Spirit is undeniable once felt.

To quote Yo Gabba Gabba, "Try it, you'll like it!"

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 3:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:37:18 -0400

This is one of those things that always turns sour.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Apr 12 at 2015 3:53 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:53:57 -0400

Every now and then I will find someone or they will find me and want to exploit my beliefs because they have some strange mission to morally destroy mainly Christians. I will tell you that God exist and whether or not you believe is not of my concern nor will I go out of my way to convince you. I will not debate it or argue the fine points of a theological lecture. I will say that one should look around one's self and the world. How can we be on accident? A car or air craft is an amazing invention. Someone had to make that. The human body is infinitely more amazing than any invention man as ever made. How can we be on accident?

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Apr 12 at 2015 4:04 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:04:01 -0400

Yes I believe in the God revealed in the Bible - Father, eternal Son, Holy Spirit - one in unity, which is completely beyond our understanding; which makes perfect sense for a being that created and upholds all that exists, has or will exist.
There are no real arguments which will prove the existence of God to an unbeliever. Until He opens our eyes so that we have eyes to see, our ears so that we have ears to see, and our "hearts" so that we are sensitive to the Holy Spirit we each are generally clueless and rebellious. Thank God that He condescends to have a relationship with each one of us and knows and loves us more perfectly than we will know this side of eternity.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Apr 12 at 2015 4:13 PM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:13:19 -0400

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 4:21 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:21:41 -0400

GOD exists.. Read the Bible. Enough said

Response by Cpl David Aldrich made Apr 12 at 2015 4:22 PM

Cpl David Aldrich — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:22:13 -0400

I just see no reason for us to be here if there is no higher power, no hope of life after death. And regardless of what Richard Dawkins says, I just don't see how we came here by accident. Some say natural selection. The equivalent of chance, in my mind. To me, there just seems to be too much order and design in the world for there not to be a God. All the chaos and evil that happens...I believe God has a reason for allowing it.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 4:30 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:30:41 -0400

I do not believe there are any gods.
As for proof, if you believe in gods, what is your proof for the countless other gods other than the one(s) you believe in? I just apply that to yours as well.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 12 at 2015 4:33 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:33:00 -0400

I've commented on this elsewhere with more eloquence but from smartphone a BLUF: the Trilemma.
Is God omnipotent/omniscient?
Is God omnibenevolent?
Is there evil?

One of these cannot be true.

EDITED after arrival at computer. "Trichotomy" Changed to Trilemma for accuracy.

Below is the simplified summary by David Hume:

If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.
If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good.
If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This concept is often credited to Epicurus initially, though there isn't any writen example of it from him. It was probably one of the early skeptics.

A lot of the worlds best philosophers have gone back and forth over this issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil#By_philosophers

But I will be happy to do some back and forth with the commenters who would like to below.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 12 at 2015 5:36 PM

MSG David Chappell — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:36:54 -0400

I like the argument of if there is no God then the life you lead and your death won't matter but if there is a God will he accept your argument I did not know? Imagine you get a speeding ticket and you tell the judge I did not know I was going so fast or there was a limit. I am sure your argument will be met with an understanding judge. As for me I do believe and will not flip a coin for eternity.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 6:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:30:59 -0400

Yes, I not only believe in my God, I know for a fact that he exists and has helped us to get through tragedies that we couldn't have gotten through without Him.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 6:33 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:33:55 -0400

personally, I believe in God. But I don't see a point in arguing, my best response when someone says they don't believe is, "you're right, you DON'T believe that."

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Apr 12 at 2015 6:58 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:58:52 -0400

Is there a God/s? That question has been at the core of human existence from the dawn of self consciousness to now.

i answered this before in another post but always toss my 2 cents in. I agree with some of the other people who posted on this issue.

I believe in God.
I believe God is omnipotent (The Alpha and the Omega).
I believe that God is everything. (God Sees all time as one thing. Good and Evil are both from God)
I do not believe God can be understood by humans as it is beyond our scope of knowledge and will always be.
I believe that Faith is powerful and God does have an effect in every ones lives. Do I understand Why? No.

Why I may not know why of a lot of things, it doesn't stop them from happening.

Response by PO3 Tanis Huston made Apr 12 at 2015 7:13 PM

PO3 Tanis Huston — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:13:37 -0400

Interesting discussion I once had. It began with a bunch of us that are religious but from different faiths. An atheist as an EMT. If you don't believe in a God (what every one calls their high power) can or should you really try and play the hand of God and try saving lives?

Personally I believe in God because I have seen many times his acts in changing my life fo better. But with that strong belief he has also given me the ability and strength to accept those that don't believe in him and to be tolerant to their beliefs.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Apr 12 at 2015 7:14 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:14:09 -0400

There is no god.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 12 at 2015 8:10 PM

LTC John Shaw — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:10:14 -0400

I will start with one of the early Christian Church thinkers Thomas Aquinas:
Note this is not arguing for a 'Christian' God, just the existence of any God.
Five arguments for the existence of God.

the unmoved mover;
the first cause;
the argument from contingency;
the argument from degree;
the teleological argument ("argument from design").

I can start a thread on each argument if this helps...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae

Quinque viae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Quinque viæ (Latin, usually translated as "Five Ways" or "Five Proofs") are five logical arguments regarding the existence of God summarized by the 13th-century Catholic philosopher and theologian St. Thomas Aquinas in his book Summa Theologica.[1] They are:

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Apr 12 at 2015 8:32 PM

TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:32:32 -0400

Miracles every day, the Earth, and the Heavens!!! Oh and the most important part my heart.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 12 at 2015 8:51 PM

LTC John Shaw — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:51:19 -0400

TO ALL Atheists and Agnostics - DISPROVE GOD by disproving this argument, if you don't; therefore God Exists!

Thomas Aquinas:
1 of 5 arguments for the existence of God.
(my summary, forgive any errors, they are my own)

As a proof the God exists, God is the first mover or "The unmoved mover"

Summary:
The argument of the unmoved mover, argues that God must be the first cause of motion in the universe.
1) Some things are in motion.
2) A thing cannot, in the same respect and in the same way, move itself: it requires a mover.
3) An infinite regress of movers is impossible.
4) Therefore, there is an unmoved mover from whom all motion proceeds.
Conclusion: This mover, everyone calls God.

Can you disprove it or break this logic?

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Apr 12 at 2015 8:56 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:56:53 -0400

Why even ask this question? This is a matter of FAITH. Either you believe in GOD, a power greater then you or you do not. I have seen things happen that are unexplainable using logic and science, and i believe in science. I have a personal belief and do not have to explain or defend it in any way, it works for me.

In University when I returned in 2002 I have to take a few electives to finish out my degree (Psychology) and one was Philosophy. It seemed strange to me that many of the same arguments used in the 18 and 19th centuries to prove that God existed were used in the 21st century to prove that God did not exist, check it out for yourself.

Does God exist? If you have FAITH, God (in his/her many names) exists and you need no proof. If you have no faith then God does not exist for you and NO proof will make you believe.

BTW - go out on the deck of a DARK USN ship in the middle of the ocean and look at the sky.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 12 at 2015 8:58 PM

LTC John Shaw — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:58:32 -0400

TO ALL Atheists and Agnostics - DISPROVE GOD by disproving this argument, if you don't; therefore God Exists!

Thomas Aquinas:
2 of 5 arguments for the existence of God.
(my summary, forgive any errors, they are my own)

As a proof the God exists, God is the "first cause"

Summary:
1) Some things are caused.
2) Everything that is caused is caused by something else.
3) An infinite regress of causation is impossible.
4) Therefore, there must be an uncaused cause of all that is caused.
Conclusion: This cause, everyone calls God.

Can you disprove it or break this logic?

Response by SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS made Apr 12 at 2015 10:48 PM

SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:48:17 -0400

SPC Elijah Henry, in the world of science physical empirical evidence is the rule for proving life. What is the proof of the proof of how life started? We have to take a theory based off the physical evidence that can be identified. If the belief in an abstract idea can exist science has yet unproven or explained explanations describing certain physical realities.

What can explain how certain chemicals cause certain behaviors? On the question of behavior. Behavior is a physical result of an unseen chemical interaction due to explainable reasons. For example, excess testosterone my cause aggressive behaviors. Or how a mortar exploding within 25 meters can be startling. Or take stress. Stress is one of things that an outside stimulant will cause our sensory reflexes to react.

The God I believe exists is the one that created all for the purpose to be worshiped. It is easy to deny the existence of something we cannot see, but not something we cannot feel. How does one knows he feels God? The Bible is clear on this. We must believe in the Bible and what it says. The Bible is inspired by God. Faith is the tool to gauge the reality of Him. If we do not accept God's Word as the truth we will never believe in Him as absolute.

Guess what I am trying to say is I explain the existence of the God of the Bible through my ability to act on my faith in his promises found in His world. Not everyone will believe in the Bible or what it says about God. But, that is okay. He still exists anyway, we just can't understand or explain His reality in our limited vocabulary.

Response by SGT James Beach made Apr 12 at 2015 10:56 PM

SGT James Beach — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:56:35 -0400

All are welcome to there believe structure, but science has determined a point of creation of the universe. Thus a creator would be necessary. Science olso points out how the sedimentary rock presurverd castings of dinosaurs. Proving a great flood came over the earth as sedimentary rock first develops underwater

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 12 at 2015 11:03 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 23:03:13 -0400

Yes and yes.

As I personally sought the answer to your question, I found the evidence that there is a God much more compelling than if there was not a God. As close as one can come to proving God does exist, there is always a point where one must make a step of faith...and I think this is by design too.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 13 at 2015 12:35 AM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 00:35:22 -0400

Yes, I believe he does. But ultimately this is why we call it faith. You have to believe, and take a leap of faith.

Response by SPC Dave Jacobs made Apr 13 at 2015 5:54 AM

SPC Dave Jacobs — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 05:54:28 -0400

Most people have heard the statement, "There are no atheists in foxholes". There has been great debate over the years about who the original "orator" was. There is an organization that is working on dispelling that notion however. The Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers has managed to round up 200 members worldwide of the current population of 7.4 Billion. The Hagel plan last year stated, "the active-duty Army would shrink from its current 522,000 soldiers to between 440,000 and 450,000. That would make it the smallest since just before the US entered World War II after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941." If they do shrink to around 450,000, the prospects of MAAF picking up new recruits doesn't look good. Psalm 14:1, Psalm 53:1(KJV)

Response by PO1 Richard Garcia made Apr 13 at 2015 6:20 AM

PO1 Richard Garcia — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 06:20:28 -0400

GOD exist if not you wouldn't be alive today enjoying the works of his hand. I suggest you look around your environment or change your environment. God Bless.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 7:26 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:26:18 -0400

So this is a loaded qiestion, as usual, when this question gets put out to the masses it devolves into something so personal that the original question is forgotten. This is in part due to the poor choice of words for the question. If your going to ask this question, you need to set some ground rules or each person will inevitably read into it. IMHO here are a few pointers to get this thing to where it should be instead of HS part 2.

1. Clearly defined operational definitions- what do you mean by "God" "existence" "proof" these words mean completely different things to believers and non believers.

2. Deny absolutist ideology- Any post that makes a claim being "the truth" or "the way" is shutting down any possible conversation because it does not allow for differing opinions.

3. Don't use the word Argument- Words have meanings, argument has a negative conotation and for some reason people take that as an okay to get personal. Try "thoughts on" or "best discussion points"

Just my two cents.

Response by 1SG Scott MacGregor made Apr 13 at 2015 8:01 AM

1SG Scott MacGregor — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:01:07 -0400

Respond to original question…Absolutly. Having a personal relationship puts boundries on my life which adds values, ethics and other positive influences. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning...nothing else matters.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 10:57 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:57:19 -0400

I think the strongest evidence of the existence of God (outside of your own personal faith) is that almost every society in history has worshiped one (or many). It seems the majority of humanity knows that God exists, without having to prove it.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Apr 13 at 2015 11:01 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:01:10 -0400

Yes and Yes. Just because you cannot see him doesn't mean he is not real. You can't see air yet you know it's there.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 13 at 2015 1:02 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:02:42 -0400

In my past military experiences I have known what it feels like to loose conscience due to injuries and to awaken by a soft light floating above my body then lead by the light to stand before two beings surrounded by light then told it was not my time but to go back and Teach Love and Show Love or to stay. I choose to return but also choosed not to Teach Love nor Show Love. Ten years later I had a similar and once again received the same message which lead me to start to change my behavior however not fully change, but in the meantime I managed to survive earthquakes, race riots and in my last deployment in 2008 survived a night time motor rocket attack, I saw the rocket motor light coming directly at me, I dove to the left side hit a wall and knew I was about to die, but instead time slowed down the rocket motor turned into a halo which illuminated a being dressed in a all black floating gown it was an Angel dressed in black and just at the rocket was to hit my location it made a sharp vertical turn up and went over my head. I lost conscience but woke up and staggered away, in 2009 I was diagnosed with the side effects of a mild TBI and lost 10 years of memories and knowledge. Then in 2013, while by my two year old grandson was dying from brain cancer I made a joke that we need more people praying for my grandson 5 minutes later I received a a texts from my unit Chaplains Christian and Jewish, then emails from representatives of the Rotary Club who informed me that Muslims in Jalalalabad Afghanistan were praying for my grandson. Days later as my grandson was dying he was visited by all Christians denominations , Catholics, Buddhist, Jehovah Witness, Jews, Muslims, Gays, Lesbians, Straights, all came to pray by his bedside. So to answer you yes There is a God, that Loves all of us and does not discriminate and most importantly I have learned to Show Love and Teach Love.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 13 at 2015 1:21 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:21:11 -0400

Here is a song for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOw7EuiFz0k

Joan Osborne - One of us HD

Эту песню написал Эрик Базилиан, композитор, певец, мультиинструменталист и продюсер. Он писал песни к первому альбому Джоан Осборн (Relish, 1995) и продюсир...

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Apr 13 at 2015 2:23 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:23:37 -0400

In my opinion God does exist. I grew up Catholic, not strict and not going to Catholic schools, but for me its a lifelong learned experience.
When I was active some people used to joke me about how can I curse, drink and chase after women in all the foreign ports and still say I am religious. I told them that God knows we are not perfect and He only wants us to live and learn and to lead overall good lives. God knows we will make mistakes, its what we learn from those mistakes and how it shapes our lives that is most important.
I had a DIVO and MCPO who made snide remarks when I told them I was going to the 0900 church service during our deployment right after 9/11. It was kind of disturbing that a CWO3 and MCPO felt the need to belittle my belief in God, but I realized that its their way of thinking so that's on them.
But I did find it almost amusing that once we deployed right after 9/11, it was our normal deployment schedule, that instead of 30 - 40 people attending service quite often there was over 100 people in attendance. Guess people find God in their own time and needs.
I attend church most every Sunday and Christmas eve and Easter masses. Its hard to explain but I feel good after being in church.
I know a lot of people don't believe in God, but its up to them to believe or not, I will never force anyone to believe in something they don't see the need to believe in.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Apr 13 at 2015 2:39 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:39:19 -0400

Yes, I am happy to say he does exist. I could get all Heisenburg on you in an attempt to explain that science has convinced me there is a god, but it's a long discussion and I'm not a great typist. If we seek HIS truth, we get closer to understanding. But we never fully understand.
There is. Be happy about it.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 13 at 2015 2:48 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:48:20 -0400

Well I was brung up as a Christian. According to the Bible and Gods word he is the only way to heaven. So this I believe to be true, by faith in his word. And that all things that is written in the book to be a true manifestation of the powers that are described in the book to be real and true.

Response by PO1 Henry Sherrill made Apr 13 at 2015 2:58 PM

PO1 Henry Sherrill — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:58:45 -0400

I am with SMSgt Thomas on this one. Besides read the BIBLE. It will scare the hell out of you. Literally. Also Know God, Know Peace. No God No Peace.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Apr 13 at 2015 3:08 PM

CMC Robert Young — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:08:00 -0400

I was reared in a Christian family by phenomenal parents so I have from birth been taught to believe. Sometimes it was easy; sometimes it was hard. But now, as somebody who has spent a lifetime in law enforcement and seen things for which there is no material rhyme or reason; for which logic and probability don't account, I am assured that there is an all knowing, all seeing, all powerful God. I have been touched repeatedly by circumstances which but for the grace of God would have ended very much differently, and have likewise seen others experience similar events.

The career unfortunately also has given me the opportunity to have more than a passing relationship with death. Death is the pivotal moment when this life passes away and something else starts. To be present in that short time with another person who is experiencing death in its fullness offers a look into something that cannot and will not be explained by science or mathematical probability. Some of the people I have seen die were clearly good, and as many were clearly bad, but each offered a chance to see something not of this world.

The most poignant of these occurred during the death of my own father. It was just the two of us in the hallway of the house where I grew up. He had been sick for almost two years, and we both knew that he wouldn't recover. At the moment of his death I was holding him in my arms. In an instant, there was another presence with us. I cannot explain it. I have not before or since experienced such a feeling. It was plain to me that something other worldly had settled on him. It was more than an understanding that he would be released from his pain. It was more than resolution to his suffering. It was fuller and deeper than anything I have ever experienced in my life. It has to be God.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Apr 13 at 2015 3:51 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:51:28 -0400

I will put up another response later, however just a real quick short one that no one can argue with. we have a Holy Bible that has been around in existence since the beginning of time for approximately 7000 + years. how many more witnesses does a person need? I mean, we can fix people in our court system with less witnesses. the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were signed by less witnesses and we hold them trues to be self-evident even though we were not there to see the signing. we take it by faith and teachings that these things did happen in American history. same way with the Holy Bible on world history

Response by SPC Jesse Bruno made Apr 13 at 2015 4:02 PM

SPC Jesse Bruno — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:02:48 -0400

YES.... that is all....out copy

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 13 at 2015 4:26 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:26:59 -0400

I for one, still have a hard time understanding why we get into such topics here. For the most part these discussions turn ugly and become full of more hate and anger than anything else. I'm not saying this thread has of that going on, I'm just saying in general.

I feel that when it comes to faith and the ideas of a higher power, we as people ruin the idea. We as people shut people out or turn a cold shoulder to those that believe as we do. We as people will use the words of our faith to fight against others but at the same time ignore some of the same lessons written in our faith.

Personally, I have love/hate relationship with faith. I have my faith and feel that others should maintain their faith as they see fit. I just don't feel this is exactly the right venue to express such heartfelt and personal views.

Response by PO2 Michael Stinar made Apr 13 at 2015 4:55 PM

PO2 Michael Stinar — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:55:01 -0400

Well, I can only offer this photo taken by me while we were updating our family board, I will let you see the picture and judge for yourself, any explanations are welcome, and we have NO picture in our house like that where it could have been a reflection of. My Wife & I have taken the picture to a Photo Specialist, and they have said that it is NO Overlap of another picture, that the picture taken is real and everything on it is legit, they covered every pixel on that picture and could not find any pixel out of place. We since have decided to take this as a Blessing, and have given thanks for the honor of this spiritual visit by the King, our Lord Jesus Christ on the most Holiest of nights, Christmas Eve.....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 5:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:03:56 -0400

I do not believe that any gods exist. That being drastically different from me believing that gods do not exist which, like the theist position, is a positive claim. Merely I have not seen sufficient evidence to convince me of any supernatural event or entity.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 5:16 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:16:46 -0400

I am living proof that there is a God. By all probability, I shouldn't be alive. I was run over twice before I was two, "fatally" poisoned twice before I was 4, shocked by electrical currents sufficient to stop my heart numerous times, survived numerous car accidents, falls, broken bones, close calls, and returned home safely from numerous combat deployments totaling over 51 months. Every breath I take is a testament and witness that God lives. I know this without any doubt. He has preserved my life, for what purpose only he knows, but I am here because of Him.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 5:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:44:10 -0400

Yes and no. It is up to the individual to answer that question. For me, yes. For the guy next to me - probably not. Is there a higher power - there has to be for I would hate for the most intelligent beings on earth to be us very flawed humans.

I once got into a debate with my father about religion and told him that Christianity was no different than ancient mythology. Of course he hit the roof until he heard me out. Every faith to include mythology all had a supreme being - all had lesser gods and demi gods - and all had tales to explain how nature and life came to be. These tales are laid out in the books of the Bible, the Koran, etc. Ancient man had to come up with an explanation for thunder and so on.

I digress - yes there is a higher power.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 6:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 18:04:37 -0400

1. We are programed to believe in a higher power(s). We don’t necessarily understand or agree on the nature of that/those higher power(s) however it’s in our nature to believe.
2. We know almost nothing of all the knowledge that we could know. The more we learn, the more we perceive we don’t know. At this stage in our understanding, it would be ridiculous to assume we knew enough to disprove any sentient higher power.
3. Our inherent intuition that there is/are higher powers in bolstered by personal revelations and religious experiences, which have a huge impact on who and how we are. They can be explained away as delusions and the product of deep psychological needs… however who is to say something doesn’t have the hand of a higher power in it… just because it may be natural. If we worship a God who is present in Nature, why would we require a supernatural explanation?
4. Belief in some form of Higher Power(s) tends to make us happier and healthier. Why would evolution choose to provide this advantage to people for no reason?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 6:07 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 18:07:33 -0400

There are multiple arguments for and against the existence of BIG-G "God." The most famous of these, or the most widely accepted can be found easily on any webpage around. Thomas Aquinas (a theologian...obviously) came up with one of the best arguments against the existence of God. If any 3 of the following things are true, the 4th cannot be and thus God does not exist. 1) Evil exists, 2) God is omnipotent, 3) God is omniscient, 4) God is omnibenevolent. This take the literal description of God from the new and old testament without any modern interpretation. Thomas Aquinas then goes on to make arguments both from the physical world (the external) and the perceived world (the internal) for the existence of God. One of the most "logical ones," is a modern one which Aquinas hints at but does not use, and I don't think he'd like it very much...Pascal's Wager. Look it up. Basically, it says that it is more logical to believe in God because there is everything to win if you do and everything to lose if you don't. There are 20 solid arguments for God in the physical world and 20 solid arguments for God in the non-physical sense. Some are better than others. One weak on is: "If most people in history believe it...then the chances are better than not that everyone is right versus everyone being wrong." That's a weak argument, but it's like saying Turkey is good and 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. A much stronger argument and the one that I prefer is the argument from Causality....or what has been referred to as the "Aristotalian Prime Mover." For something to be moved there must be a cause. Not only must there be a cause, but that cause must be slightly greater than the thing being moved. It must have a prerequisite amount of "stuff" (call is mass or momentum or power...whatever) in order to move something. A flea can't move a Mac Truck...you get the point. Now...the Big Bang. A Big Bang requires a "Big Banger," so to speak. Something cannot be caused by nothing in the universe we live in...this would also require something that created the universe to be external to the universe as we understand it, especially since if it were a portion of the universe or contained within it, it would thus require something which caused it. If it is external, in a space we cannot understand, it is not bound by the rules which govern this universe and thus, may not require causality to exist...even though our tiny brains cannot fathom this level of existence. This is just one of many arguments. I suggest you take the time to pick up some of the philosophers in the ages and start reading about the questions that matter.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 6:31 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 18:31:01 -0400

No.

I guess I should edit this to make it into a real comment.
There is no God, god, gods, any sort of deity or creator. None of those things are possible, none of them exist. The questions that Man has always tried to answer, and has answered for himself in the form of fairy tales, are, "Where did my consciousness come from?" and, "What happens to it when I die? What is that experience?"

Quite frankly, we're incapable of imagining what nothingness is like; it's not black and silent, because those are experiences of consciousness. Are animals as sentient as we are, even if not as intelligent? Do they simply mirror feelings without the capacity for thought? (It can be argued that thought is the child of language; without the language necessary to fully form thoughts, we're left to our most basic feelings, like small children.)

The simple answer is that animals clearly have some level of consciousness, though which ones do or don't is a difficult line to draw. Cats? Sure. Flies? Who knows?
What happens to our consciousness when we die? It disappears, and we'll never understand what that's like. How did we become conscious? The same way other animals did, but there's no way to figure out what that threshold is; maybe we'll stumble across it some time.

Religion exists because people refuse to say, "I don't know." People in power want to have answers, or else the led will refuse to follow at some point. That's how religions spring up. There's a fear and uncertainty in admitting we don't know. There is a deep existential fear in knowing that this short and imperfect life is all there is, but that's just the truth.

No, there is no God. Religion is a lie, created for the comfort and control of the masses.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Apr 13 at 2015 8:07 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:07:13 -0400

Article 1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Article 11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Excerpts from, The Articles of Faith, The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints (often called the Mormons)

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 8:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:14:53 -0400

Not even a question to debate. He exist and is the best thing to keep you whole!

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 13 at 2015 8:21 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:21:25 -0400

I went an entire career never being asked what my religion was and never asking that of any of my soldiers. I bowed my head out of respect for military custom and courtesy before I found God. I did not feel the obligation to pitch a fit or try to make everyone else bend to my side. Bullets don't have religious preference and I still have yet to meet an athiest under fire. I don't want to add to the bank accounts of these special interest groups who sue the sueable to win monetarty awards and continue to make mountains out of mole hills as they "champion" the rights of the individual. I didn't join the military to be an individual! I joined to serve my country and to protect ALL (I say again) ALL Americans. Go ahead and be an individual. "That's not my bag, baby." Let's continue to alienate ourselves until we have the "perfect military." OR......OR.....OR.................we continue kicking butt as a cohesive organization accepting everyone who protects our flanks! Someone touched a nerve, and I'm just getting started............

Try to see this from the EO (Equal Opportunity) perspective and more importantly, Uncle Mark's key to survival and victory due to superior numbers on the battlefield......Let's say I am going to drop your butt off on some crap mountain top in Iraqistan and you will be on your own. We have 10,000 people at our command, but YOU have it in your head that you are only taking the ones that fit your "perfect fighting force." Let your own discrimination and bias direct your decision making. I don't want ANY women in MY perfect world! I don't want ANY athiests, Jews, or Muslims in MY perfect world! I don't want any POG's (person other-than grunt) watching MY back! You better be native born and speak english as a first language in MY perfect world! I hate young-a$$ punks, so no one under 21 in MY perfect world! I F!@##$ing HATE college boys!!!! No college boys in MY perfect world! Every squad MUST have a Ranger in MY perfect world! Etc, etc.

I have now offended, dismissed, and disregarded over 98% (Merino math) of my available assets to create MY perfect world of hard corp fire pissers. There are now 200 available for combat. I hate to break it to you, but nobody is coming home alive. Your mission is a failure; and you can point all the fingers you want. Your perfect world is still in ashes.

Think BIG picture. The military is trying to strengthen your numbers, not weaken them. If you can't handle the change, get out. You served honorably. But it is you who needs to adapt and overcome. Your quest for individuality is not conducive to the military. Start a militia of good old boys and run things your way. One Team, One Fight!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 11:31 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 23:31:58 -0400

Before I answe can I ask why? Why do you want to know? If it is to strengthen your belief in God I'm all for it but if it is to cause a descussion of which two parties do not hold the same absolute then why even talk about it?

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Apr 14 at 2015 12:27 AM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 00:27:17 -0400

I am an Agnostic, and to first clarify, my understanding of the word, which many folks don't seem to grasp, is that I neither believe in any higher power, nor disbelieve in any higher power, and that I am relatively unconcerned about it, and that a big part of that unconcern lies in the confidence that IF I shall be judged one day, it would be upon my actions and merit, and it has already been the observation of others that I tend to align myself with Christian values and do more "walk the walk" than most who bother to state they are Christian do.

That said, this topic is not strictly an Atheist vs Christianity thread. There are many worldwide religions.

I believe once upon a time there were Cavemen and Cavewomen living their lives without religion at all. And one day someone asked the questions about Why are we here, How did we get here, and What is our purpose?

If Christianity is true, and God gave Humans free will, then it is my parents who are my creator. I am usually happy to leave it at that, knowing I was planned.

However I refuse to stick any round peg of religion into a square hole just to soothe some need to have an answer. I question that very need.

I am also an "Observationalist." Seemed to me that at some point in history, there were Christians, separate from those who were not, who were all just very collectively Christians. But here is my observation. People bend and twist what they perceive by reading from a book what they WANT to perceive. Fundamentally, people are just simply going to go do whatever it is they want to do, and they will find a religion, and/or book, and/or fellowship, that will allow themselves to continue to do whatever it was they were already doing anyway. And when they cannot find one, they will MAKE a new one, and this is what has led to all of these many subgroups...Baptists, Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Evangelicals, Catholics, etc.

To put it out there that you are a member of any of these "Xs or Ys" is supposed to mean something. You are speaking about your beliefs, and expecting the listener to believe you follow a certain set of rules. And most then turn around and wonder why they would then question you when it becomes clear that you are not. It would seem to me that a real God-fearing person wouldn't have much trouble walking the walk of their own self-imposed rulesets. We might not even need the World of Law if people would stop being hypocrites in that sense.

I believe people should be smart enough to figure out how they should conduct themselves without having to read an instruction manual...or at least should they in fact need that reading material, that they should then be able to retain and apply what they have read.

There is one thing most non-believers struggle with. Its the notion of "Well I wasn't religious until my life plummeted into the gutter, and then I suddenly "found God". I have to wonder Where was God yesterday, or all of those months prior? I don't find anything wrong with people having a struggle, needing a vice, finding a book as a stepping stone to climb back up, and all of that. If you need the structure and guidance of a book and its related fellowship, then by all means go get it. This however does not mean there is anything wrong with those who do not have the same need. Some of us can keep healthy relationships, avoid criminality, and not choose the escapism of addiction problems just fine. And while we're at it, we tend to earn a much better general reputation among our peers along the way.

Most people view Clergy as those who have spent the most time in a Bible. When every major religion has its Clergy Pedophiles discovered, I cannot help but think "Well---if HE cant even follow his own rules, then I guess the rest of us are doomed." To that, most Christians might say "Blame the man, not the Book", and if it was a 1-time case, yeah maybe...but this has been rampant enough to suggest the Book is flawed.

I don't expect anyone to be perfect, but I do expect they are at least trying to instill their own Walk The Walk within their lives. But you don't just stumble and fall and accidentally ram your equipment into some young child.

Please consider this an offering, or at least a glimpse of, "The Argument Against".

They used to say There are no Atheists in Foxholes. If that is true, then it pleases me to be the first. (those I am Agnostic, not Atheist, and there is a big difference).

Response by CPO Levoy Morring made Apr 14 at 2015 8:38 AM

CPO Levoy Morring — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:38:27 -0400

I am not quite as eloquent as most on here so to try and answer the question posed by SPC Henry would be, well, downright funny. Here I sit thinking of it this way, I will not even try to argue the existence of God because you cannot argue faith. Salvation is from God and comes by grace through faith. His grace, my Fatih!

Think about this ... why would so many highly intelligent people spend their entire lives trying to prove something doesn't exist? That really makes no sense to me.

Response by SSG Buddy Kemper made Apr 14 at 2015 8:39 AM

SSG Buddy Kemper — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:39:30 -0400

Nothin' plus nuthin' equals EVERYTHING is just too much for me to swallow, warriors. I can observe creation. I see order in many things I see (birds, bees, trees, family, etc). I see friendship and love and family and also feel that sense of family when i'm with other vets. I've got a great life. While I observe creation and take part in it, I have that sense that there MUST be a Creator. That's just a ground-pounder/GED type opinion tho. Cool topic and enjoy many of your comments. Hope you are all having a great week. -Kemp

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 9:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:07:52 -0400

I am skeptical, yet do not consider myself atheistic.

I believe in Karma, and I believe that you should be a good person. However, I am not living my life in fear of a proverbial "spanking" from an omnipotent parent-figure. I believe in leaving the world in a better state then when I found it, and that is really it.

Even if some supreme being did exist, I don't think they would turn me away because I didn't chant praise to his name. I highly doubt a deity is that self-absorbed. But, if I am wrong, so be it. At least my children will have better lives on Earth.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 14 at 2015 10:06 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:06:22 -0400

I may not believe in organized religion, however, a rational explanation for our existence and the creation of the universe is by a higher power.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 11:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:34:09 -0400

Not really sure what I believe to be honest. I grew up in a baptist household; I actually used to be very devout myself. But as I grew older, I grew wiser and to me, things just didn't add up with religion. So, I stopped believing. Do I believe in God and Jesus within Christanity? Absolutely not. Do I believe in the Big Bang theory? Absolutely not. But ask me if I believe that the possibility exists that there could be a higher power somewhere out there; I might be inclined to agree. The main reason I fell out of religion is because I fell in love with physical cosmology and all that the stars and universe have to offer. All religions were created by man and therefor only explain mankind here on earth. The reality is that you have to be incredibly naive to think that out of every planet in the entire observable universe (about 46.5 billion light years to the edge), we are the only planet capable of sustaining intelligent life.
In any regards, I don't need religion to live my life. I have my own morals that I live by that still fit in with the rest of societies morals. Some people need religion because they have no other compass to guide them. For that, I believe religion is necessary. Just don't go shoving it in everyone's faces

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Apr 14 at 2015 1:59 PM

LCpl Steve Wininger — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:59:53 -0400

There is too much order in the universe for things to have just happened by accident. It is easier for me to believe that there is an intelligent design than to believe that things just fell into place from an explosion.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Apr 14 at 2015 3:30 PM

SFC Stephen King — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:30:36 -0400

I look at this philosophically. The argument of the exsistence of "God" has been debated for a long time. I take this in to consideration the name god represents all beliefs.

One argument by Descartes, in his Fifth Meditation, wrote that the conception of a perfect being who lacks existence is like imagining a triangle whose interior angles don't sum to 180 degrees (he was big on the notion of innate ideas and the doctrine of clear and distinct perception). So, because we have the idea of a supremely perfect being, we have to conclude that a supremely perfect being exists; to Descarte, God's existence was just as obvious, logical, and self-evident as the most basic mathematical truths.

I am drawn to this defintion as to the exsistence of god or God.

Finally, by "God" or "god," we're not talking about any specific religious deity.

Freedom of Religion is free

Response by MSgt Chris Adams made Apr 14 at 2015 4:28 PM

MSgt Chris Adams — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:28:13 -0400

Yes God exists. How else can an opposing group deny him so vehemently? If you are truly a non-believer and hold to your convictions, why try and force your choice upon others? This is the stance I have never understood about atheists. If you do not believe, why do you care? Just my thoughts.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Apr 14 at 2015 4:33 PM

CMSgt Mark Schubert — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:33:05 -0400

I believe it's not hard to see God - when you think about the design of the universe or even the human body, or the miracle of birth, there are just too many to list - there is just no other explanation for me.

Then there is the word of God himself (the Bible) which was written by men who actually walked and talked w/Jesus - who exists not only in the Bible but other historical documents - and when I read the Bible and do what it says, I am filled with a peace and joy that cannot be explained by present day culture.

So to me - it's pretty clear God exists in my heart and I'd like nothing more than for Him to exist in yours too.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 7:13 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 19:13:50 -0400

I refuse to acknowledge that I evolved from a single cell amoeba that crawled out of a large body of water and eventually became a Warrior, and now a healer.

I have dissected cadavers, taking apart men and women piece by piece, we are highly organized and very complicated...order rarely comes from Chaos.

The amazing ability for the body to heal...the innate...is god-like, and cannot be replicated in any science laboratory.

Scientists have been quoted as saying we are worth about $6 in Carbon and water...I'd like to give those scientists every bone, every cell, every organ, of a human in a box...and tell them to make it work...put it together and build a human...all the parts are there, go for it. I would consume billions of dollars and it would never happen...so how much is the human body worth?

My eyes have seen miracles, tragedies, death, life, birth, murder, heroic acts, kindness, bullying, our eyes are windows to the soul. We cannot be god-like if we didn't have a soul.

My ability to love and/or hate you with such strong passion is what makes me believe that there is a superior being, and I just choose to call him GOD, ABBA my father.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 9:15 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:15:21 -0400

Okay, so my answer to this question. I fully understand that this will be posted against, and I welcome it. I allow for a differing point of view, but please don't tell me that you have a relationship with god, therefore he exists. That's not even trying to respond intelligently.

I do not believe there is a god. To argue against this creator I invoke the past 500 years of human history. Since the age of modern man began with Newton every day has seen the darkness that surrounds the campfire and the mysticism and mythology that lay beyond recede. The spotlight of critical thinking grows stronger with each day. I stand in a grave yard of gods that have come before and all perished the same way the dodo bird did. I cannot understand how a modern day human can believe so wholeheartedly in a divine beings when all of the prior divine beings have been slain and rest in shallow graves.

Yes, we as a species only understand about 5% of the universe and that's a BARELY 5%. Gravity is a problem. But it EXPLAINS 5% of the universe and with each passing moment the spotlight grows brighter. Each generation that has come has had to defend the creators absence by arguing that science doesn't know, therefore god. that's not an argument, that a cop out.

I don't actually have to prove that god exists, all I have to do is make one person look up and ask themselves if what they believe is backed up by anything other than emotion.

All of recorded human history is at our fingertips, we have the internet, learn people, LEARN. Blind faith does not allow for freedom of thought.

Think for yourself. Disregard everything I have said and everything you think you know and go out and read some books. But get some peer reviewed scientific journals, they have better internal and external validity, just a tip to save some tip.

All wrapped up with this. Every. Single. Miracle, magic trick and absolutist claim ever espoused by the mouths of mankind have been proven to be categorically, undeniably, irrefutably false. There are no absolutes, not a single claim of absolutes given by man holds sway in reality. The unstoppable march of man and science is not complete and does not explain everything YET!

-Chief

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Apr 14 at 2015 9:26 PM

SSgt Christopher Brose — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:26:40 -0400

I believe there is a Creator, simply because attempts at explaining the universe without one are far less credible.

Let's get one things straight -- atheists are religious. One of Webster's definitions of religion is "an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group," which does not necessitate believing in a god.

Atheists believe in the non-existence of any sort of God which, in spite of their arguments to the contrary, is an affirmative belief. They also believe in supernatural events, they just don't like calling them that. The Big Bang is an article of faith, a god replacement. Evolution is another one. Atheists like to frame the debate as science vs. religion, but it's really philosophy of origins vs. philosophy of origins.

In order to believe in either the Big Bang or evolution, people have to either suspend their belief in science at critical points, or simply ignore scientific contraindications. I find it amusing that people who are vociferous in their denial of god attribute many of the same god characteristics to evolution. They love to make fun of Creationists or Intelligent Design advocates, but they can't even describe how anything works in biology without using the language of intelligent design -- words like job, purpose, system, function.

Life, any form of it, is far too complex to have just accidentally happened.

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made Apr 15 at 2015 12:05 AM

CW4 Larry Curtis — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:05:18 -0400

I have not scrolled down to read any responses to this question...yet. So I will ask, is this question real? Is it even pertinent in this forum? From a mere traditional standpoint, God MUST exist because the military has historically always had it's Chaplain Corps. We find an enormous amount of references to God throughout the ages of recorded secular history. One of the absolute oldest books in the world, which references God quite extensively, is still in print and world-wide publication even to this day, despite the increasing numbers of nay-sayers. In spite of their best efforts, countries who have attempted to deny the existence of God and the opportunity for people to worship God, have failed miserably in their efforts to do so. Otherwise they would have run out of people to persecute and put to death for their faith in God...but they didn't, did they? God may not be real to you personally, but God is most definitely real to people all around the world, even in those places where it is considered illegal to believe in God.

Response by SPC Bernie Davies made Apr 15 at 2015 1:33 AM

SPC Bernie Davies — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:33:17 -0400

At this time there is no "proof" of God, or should I say of a god. Arguments lack evidence and substance. However, as a believing Christian, are two things. First, personal experience. Secondly, the written foundation of the Judeo-Christian belief system.

First, personal experience. In the West Texas town of Marfa there is a phenomena called the Marfa Lights. These have been recorded as occurring since at least the early 1900's. At night, off in the distance, these glowing lights rise, change color and move around. Yet, there has never been scientific proof as to the cause of them or the source. Some people say they exist and others say they do not, sort of like believers and unbelievers in religious matters. Well, we have gone out there more than once and I have seen them for myself. Seeing is believing whether or not there is proof of their existence. Same holds true for God. I have experienced Him in an objective manner. Therefore, for me, God does exist.

Secondly, the written word, commonly called the Bible. What I would offer is the completeness that it offers along with the complexity. Research a Russian mathematician name Panin who found that throughout the Bible is a complex mathematical pattern found in no other literature.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:44 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:44:05 -0400

I believe God does exist and rather than argument about it you will just have to accept that for what it is worth.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:12 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:12:35 -0400

The structure of the DNA molecule has the complexity, and apparent design of a computer program. You can't have a computer program, without a "programer." The basic cell, cannot be broken down (is irreducible) in any developmental form minus any of it's inherent, and apparently engineered subcomponents, You cannot have irreducible technical structures, without an "engineer."

Response by SFC (CA) Roland Dell made Apr 15 at 2015 9:15 AM

SFC (CA) Roland Dell — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:15:59 -0400

You can't teach people faith...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:41:15 -0400

To elaborate further, just as the DNA molecule has the complexity, and technical attributes of a computer program (You cannot logically have a computer program in the absence of a "programer").

The basic cell cannot function, or maintain it's own existence in any developmental form, minus any of it's apparently engineered subcomponents (it's irreducibility).

Cellular subcomponents among other things, generate and conserve their own energy, and in certain cases have "installed" self contained nano motors, for propulsion. [http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.biochem.72 [login to see] 37]

Thus once again, as stated previously, one cannot have engineered structure without an "engineer."

No "designer," no design, etc...

These are just a few of the numerous salient points made by those who would adhere to the "intelligent Design" theory of origins. This line of reasoning has also been referred to philosophically as the "cosmological argument."

Also, let's not forget a term absent from your original list of divine attributes, namely His being "transcendent!"

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:58 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:58:22 -0400

There is a creator, everyone has their own opinions of religion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 10:10 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:10:38 -0400

Funny thing, gods are. You can almost define them any way you like. The more limits you impose, the more likely or unlikely you make its existence seem. When, in reality, there's no good reason to believe magic exists at all.

Supernatural entities are better describe as unreal entities. Is that an argument? probably not. I completely dismiss the idea for the same reason i dismiss all of the other types of gods and supernatural beings humans have ever thought up. So should you.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Apr 15 at 2015 11:02 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 11:02:53 -0400

The fundamental problem with the question is faith and religion itself. There are so many different religions each with their own concepts of god, gods, goddesses, or other divine existence. So what constitutes an argument for from one belief system could constitute an argument against in another belief system.
So the best argument for and against the existence of the divine is us. All of us. Regardless of belief human beings are small, frail, hairless, apes that have risen to become the dominant species on the planet. We have the capacity for great acts of compassion, and terrible acts of cruelty. We have the technology to completely decimate this planet, and the technology to heal.
On the for side, only a divine being with a love for this creature would allow such an inferior specimen to rise to this level of domination.
On the against side, how could a divine being choose such an inferior creature to become the dominant species on the planet.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 12:35 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:35:08 -0400

Lol!

I believe. I believe privately and daily. :)

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 12:48 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:48:58 -0400

I believe the best argument for a God would be for one that is view more as a grand designer and not one that the bible discribes. I can believe that some being could have set in motion the way earth panned out, but evolution is supported by science and very hard to argue against.

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Apr 15 at 2015 1:33 PM

Cpl Peter Martuneac — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:33:51 -0400

There was probably a God who created the universe, or at the very least got it started. It may even be that the Christian Old Testament got it all right. But I don't see God in the world today. Maybe He decided to just lean back and relax until Judgement Day, I don't know, but I don't exactly see Him having a hand in our modern world.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:43 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:43:58 -0400

Truly, this can only be answered by each individual as they believe. Otherwise, all this particular question does is open up a storm where rarely can anyone keep their military composure when entering in these types of discussions.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Apr 15 at 2015 2:26 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:26:42 -0400

I don't have a clue nor do I believe that anyone has any evidence one way or the other. Belief is an article of faith alone. Anyone who needs proof can't have faith.

Personally, I believe out of necessity. I would go crazy as I witness pain and suffering and injustice without at least the hope that divine justice exists. Thus, I choose to believe. Isn't life about choices?

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Apr 15 at 2015 2:40 PM

SSG Mike Angelo — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:40:08 -0400

I believe that God exist. We all come from different backgrounds, ethnicities, social and cultural constructs; we all unique. We come into the military via contract and take that oath...:so help me God. The military acknowledges the existance of God, yet respects those differences of agnostic and/or athiestic beliefs.

In my lifetime, a true test of Gods existance is to take one out of their comfort zone, and into a chaotic environment and observe a change in behavior. In both war and peace, each of us has a level understanding of what it is that we are asked to do...action...And we all have limits and boundaries of appropriate and inappropriate behavior. To some, our breaking point can be visible and yet invisible. It is at that point where God shows Himself to humanity more frequently. The journey with God is a good path for me. To other people it may be a different story.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 3:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 15:15:08 -0400

IF and this is a big IF, If this was a trolling attempt...good on you! Religon is always a firey topic. But to answer your question does God exist? or Is there a God. In all honesty thats noone's buisness but my own.

Response by CPT(P) David Thorp made Apr 15 at 2015 3:59 PM

CPT(P) David Thorp — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 15:59:52 -0400

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully

It's a horrible idea that God, this paragon of wisdom and knowledge, power, couldn't think of a better way to forgive us our sins than to come down to Earth in his alter ego as his son and have himself hideously tortured and executed so that he could forgive himself."

Dawkins

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 15 at 2015 6:22 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 18:22:07 -0400

I hope someday you have a chance to see your child born. You will be convinced there is a God.

Response by Cpl Ron Ortiz made Apr 15 at 2015 6:48 PM

Cpl Ron Ortiz — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 18:48:42 -0400

Truly this is a question for the ages, in my heart I know the answer. The question could be considered rhetorical due to the variables between beliefs and existence. Just because you have not seen, experienced or validated something does not define it's existence.
Look at it this way, if you are adamant that something means the world to you does it need to exist?
For me I believe Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, for those that don't to include my own child. I pray for their spirituality, that they keep light in their heart and not darkness.

Response by SPC D W made Apr 15 at 2015 9:54 PM

SPC D W — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:54:39 -0400

The strongest argument I have seen for the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent Supreme Being is the historical and factual resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Such an act, as recorded historically, can only have come about because God raised Him from the dead, which verifies the divinity of Jesus as being that very omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent God.

Then, followed closely by the ontological argument, the kalam cosmological argument, the argument from morality, the teleological argument.... And a host of others, not the list of which is personal and collective experience.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Apr 16 at 2015 12:30 AM

SA Harold Hansmann — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 00:30:10 -0400

At this point the whole "religious" thing is getting to be "who cares anymore" it is becoming like the O.J. Simpson trial. Long and drawn out with a heaping of tiresome.
BELIEVE WHAT EWE WANT TO BELIEVE AND KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.
It's that easy.

Response by TSgt Terry Hudson made Apr 16 at 2015 12:54 AM

TSgt Terry Hudson — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 00:54:22 -0400

I don't think this is an appropriate question for this site. Even though it's not the workplace it's a place where a bunch of military personnel talk and discuss topics, just like in the workplace. There's a reason why politics and religion are not to be discussed in the work place and those same reasons should apply here. That's just my opinion.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Apr 16 at 2015 10:32 AM

SSG Gerhard S. — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:32:10 -0400

I spent many years as a Christian, and many identifying as an Atheist. As I have matured, I look at the wonder that is a human being, that is the interaction of flora and fauna on this amazingly beautiful earth. I look at the incomprehensible expansiveness of the universe. A look into the night sky illustrates this, and the images we receive from space only serve to reinforce this sense of infinite expansiveness.

There is little doubt that organized "religion" of most stripes have been, at times, and to varying degrees, co-opted by humans acting in "ungodly" ways. My thought is that if there IS a god, He/She/It wouldn't approve of such actions in His/Her/It's name.

Today I identify as one who chooses to believe in a Creator. That is, in an entity that created this amazingly intricate, and incomprehensibly, seemingly infinite universe. Perhaps this reflects a lack of comprehension regarding the nature of the universe on my part. I have come to realize, and accept my inability to grasp it's seemingly infinite expanse, and find that the acceptance of the idea of a Creator means I don't have to ponder, or try to explain these things I've come to recognize as beyond my grasp.

That being said, I am not a Religionist. History has shown us the many religions of man, have served to organize this same inability to understand the nature of the world and universe around us, and to focus, and utilize, accumulated resources for good, or sometimes for evil, or even as a means of control.

Like government today, we have Judges, politicians, and pundits who feel obligated to tell us what THEY think WE should think about our Constitution, and our rights, when the information is right there for us to read and understand. The words are in our Constitution, our Declaration of Independence, our Constitutional convention notes, the Federalist papers, and in the writings of our Framers. Likewise, the institution of Religion operates the same way. Instead of focusing on understanding what God, or his Son, Prophets, or Emissaries require of us, through the respective Holy Books, organized religion is more focused on following the leadership of those claiming to have special knowledge, or understanding somehow always culminating in the gathering of resources from believers.

So, while I do believe in a Creator, I don't believe in a religion. What I do believe in (Morally speaking) is individual rights. This means we each possess inherent rights that stem from our existence. We are living, thinking beings, and have the inherent right to live unmolested by others and to protect our lives, and our property. We have the right to freely associate with those willing to associate with us. Also conversely, this means we don't have the right to force others to associate, or to initiate force against the lives or property of others. (self defense is always warranted.) We institute governments among men to enforce these individual rights, and if we can keep government in check, they will not violate those rights, (though history has often shown otherwise in this regard.) Thomas Paine illustrated this concept brilliantly in "Common Sense" and Ayn Rand made well reasoned arguments in "The Virtue of Selfishness" on the nature of ethics and morality as the result of human nature and our environment, and not as a product of religion.

Lastly, I would make clear that as one who believes in individual rights, I respect the right of every individual to believe in whichever brand of Religion they choose, so long as that right doesn't infringe on my right to not be a Religionist.

Respectful Regards to all on both sides. Uncharacteristically, I find myself in the middle on this one! Who would have thought?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 10:53 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:53:42 -0400

Well, i posted a few times in reply, so I suppose i should actually respond to OP:

I don't believe there are any gods. I don't know there aren't any. I can't argue for the non-existence of something that is not only poorly defined, but whose attributes are like-wise nebulous.

I will say most arguments for the "necessarily extant Creator of the universe" are so illogical and impractical that they are easily extinguished by anyone who applies a little bit of logic and empiricism. Having heard no argument and seen no evidence of creators (or gods) that i find credible, let alone convincing, i necessarily don't believe they exist for the exact same reason i don't believe there's a sewing machine in orbit around alpha centauri.

Response by TSgt Liza Kazee made Apr 16 at 2015 11:31 AM

TSgt Liza Kazee — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:31:50 -0400

Typically I would avoid conversations like this simply because they quickly disintegrate in to arguments and finger pointing. However, this question hits something deep within me. I do believe in God and that he exists within me. He saved me from deaths door and from myself. He gave me four beautiful children, and if you've ever seen a child being born, you know there is a God. He gives me strength to get up each day and put one foot in front of the other, despite my wanting to stay curled up in the safety of my own room. I see him in the smiles of my children, in the laughter of our lives and in the fact that despite the devil's best efforts I am alive today. I may not be the same person I was before 2012, but I am still here. I am still fighting and I am still moving forward. Without God none of those things would be possible. I know that every individual has their own opinions and beliefs and I respect that. However, the God I believe in has given me life and has held me in his arms in the worst moments of my life. I can only share my own experiences and beliefs, so yes there is a God and my faith in Him will never waiver.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 11:32 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:32:07 -0400

Reading the posts here, those who truly say that they believe in God, and even say they know that God exists as a fact... it seems like many, if not most of them draw this conclusion through personal experience. Their life was saved "miraculously". They had after-death experiences that science cannot explain. These individual experiences, I believe, provide a glimpse of how God operates. I believe that God exists, and that we are here for a purpose. As his children/heirs/etc., we need to progress. I believe that this life on earth is our time to grow, to learn, to experience, and to be tried. I believe that God is all-powerful, and will not allow Himself to be proven scientifically. "By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive". Very poetic, but I believe that this passage, and similar ones, provide insight into God's patterns: Knowledge of God is given solely on an individual basis.

And how is this knowledge given? Simply: Through the holy ghost. Did we think that the holy ghost was included in the Godhead because 3's a catchy number? His role is vital, and putting it into scientific terms: The holy ghost is the medium by which God communicates to us, or more specifically, to our spirits. People will have different feelings/experiences because people are different. Most will have trouble explaining that they just know a thing.

Why does God allow so much evidence against Him? If part of our purpose in this life is to chose Him, how can we chose Him if He is the only choice? How are we expected to choose good when we know not evil? Will we choose "science" or the "still small voice"? Everything must have its opposite, or no true choice can be made.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Apr 16 at 2015 11:44 AM

SSG Gerhard S. — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:44:38 -0400

A bit of humor that fits in to the Creator aspect I wrote on earlier.

The World's finest Scientists called a meeting with God.
The Scientists proceeded to lecture the Creator on how he is irrelevant. That they, as Scientists could combine the correct ingredients and create life in a test-tube.

The Creator said, "Show me".

So, the scientist says, first we go to a swamp and take this mucky dirt......

The Creator interrupts and says......"Hold on there a minute"........... "Get your OWN dirt!"

Response by SrA Kelly Richard made Apr 16 at 2015 12:19 PM

SrA Kelly Richard — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:19:20 -0400

There is no such thing as an atheist in a combat zone. When people are being shot at, everyone is praying to someone.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Apr 16 at 2015 12:53 PM

COL Ted Mc — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:53:07 -0400

There are NO good answers as to why there IS a God.

Equally, there are NO good answers as to why there is NOT a God.

Based on 99 [login to see] 9999999% of all reasonably relevant religious writings, you will get the answer to whether there is, or is not, a God after it is too late for you to do anything about it.

You either "believe" or you don't "believe".

That's why religions are called "faiths" because you have to take what they tell you on faith WITHOUT factual backups.

I don't fault anyone for believing and I don't fault anyone for not believing.

I do fault people for attempting to force me to believe what they believe because they believe that their belief gives them the right to dictate everyone else's beliefs regardless of what those other people believe their own belief gives them the right to do.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 2:20 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:20:28 -0400

If there wasn't a God then this life would be pointless, but there is a God and we are all trying to return unto him.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 2:25 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:25:37 -0400

Absolutely! I have raised my family under the understanding that just because you cannot see something does not make it any less real.

Conversations with my family, "God is like the wind, you can't see it but you can feel it. Faith is knowing that just because you cannot feel the wind blowing right then you still know it exists. Like the wind, you cannot see it but you can see how the leaves rattle and tremble in the breeze and feel the caress on your face, God is like this too. Unseen but affecting everything and reminding you that he is always there." When asked, "Can you PROVE God exists?" my response is, "Can you PROVE he doesn't?"

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, "...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." - Joshua 24:15

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 3:31 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:31:19 -0400

Man, you are busting open a can of worms with this one. Not what I initially expected to see on a military networking site, but I'm quickly realizing everything is free game here.

I'm an atheist, which means the best arguments I have found are atheist ones. If the best arguments I'd found were theist, then I wouldn't be an atheist, naturally. For context's sake, I was raised Catholic and believed in its doctrine till my mid-teens. A period of irreligious theism followed until I was 21, when I converted to Islam. After two years I discarded those beliefs and have been an atheist ever since: the result of insatiable curiosity and constant questioning throughout my life.

I don't want to type too much, but the best (and most polite?) arguments I've found against the existence of a deity are from Bertrand Russell's book, "Why I am not a Christian". It is very interesting regardless of one's opinion, and he wrote it at a level that should be easily understood by anyone who's graduated high school. I mention that last bit because I've tried reading some really dense, unbearable stuff which could have absolutely been "dumbed down" without losing any meaning.

As for some arguments off the top of my head, I'll at least put forth my favorite argument for why the very concept of omnipotence is an oxymoron: Can an all-powerful being create an object which it cannot move/manipulate/insert-verb-of-choice-here? If it can create an object that it cannot move, then the being is not all-powerful because it does not have the ability to move the object. If it cannot create such an object, then it is not all-powerful because there is something which it cannot create. Therefore, omnipotence is self-contradictory, and there can be no such thing as an omnipotent being. I would extend that to argue that any person or group proclaiming the existence of an explicitly omnipotent god has just admitted the falsehood of their particular faith.

I'm going on longer than intended....oh well, I'm deployed and therefore bored stupid.

Regarding an omniscient being: If an omniscient being exists, that means it knows everything: past, present, future...your thoughts, thoughts you haven't had yet, the position of a comet that will slam into Earth and when...everything. If something can know everything, then there is no free will, no chance, no coincidences: everything is predetermined. Every wonderful thing that has and will happen, and every disgusting evil thing is predetermined. If it's somehow not predetermined, then it cannot be known. Knowledge can only be of reality, otherwise it wouldn't be knowledge. If there's an omniscient being, then we all have a fate, and nothing is within our control. To have control would require free will and the ability to do something not predetermined, impossible with an omniscient being. If nothing is within in our control, which naturally includes our beliefs: there is no point in believing one thing vs another thing. It doesn't matter whether I'm an atheist and so-and-so is a Buddhist and this other person is an evangelical, because we all have our fates, whatever they are. There may or may not be a heaven and hell in this hypothetical scenario of an omniscient being, and this being may or may not be an eternal creator. And if it IS an eternal creator, it already knew if/when it would create our universe, and our fates, and everything. And therefore, this supreme being/eternal creator ALSO HAS NO FREE WILL OR CONTROL, because by the nature of knowledge, it too has a fate. With an omniscient being EVERYTHING is pre-determined, INFINITELY predetermined, with no exceptions. If there's an omniscient being, it's just as much a pawn as we are. And given no evidence of predetermination, and in light of evidence that there is no such thing as predetermination (e.g. it's impossible to know where a quantum particle is or will be at any given time, one can only calculate the probability it will be in a given area), I would argue that there is no omniscient being in existence.

Regarding omnipresence: I honestly don't know what to do with that concept. I don't even know what would constitute evidence for the existence of an omnipresent being. To me, existence and space-time are more or less interchangeable, and we are very confident that space-time is not infinite. So I think someone would be hard-pressed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there exists something which transcends space-time. And if it transcends it, could it ever be observed? To those who say they know there's something because they "experience" it or feel it or whatever, I must remind you that the human brain is a remarkable and powerful organ. The voices and sensations of presence that a schizophrenic experiences are very real to him/her, but that does not mean they exist outside the space between his/her ears. I'm not saying people that have "felt god's presence" are schizophrenic, but I am saying that the biological mechanism for such experiences is very real and does not serve as evidence of an omnipresent being. And if there is an omnipresent being, we've already demonstrated that it cannot be omnipotent, so who knows if such a being would have any power over us anyway? Or whether or not it created us? Or whether or not it does anything but simply exist without interacting with the universe? It's a pointless pursuit in my opinion.

Regarding an omnibenevolent being: If such a being exists, then why is there suffering? If you wanna add the heaven/hell thing into the mix, then an omnibenevolent being means you'll never go to hell forever! Some apologists I've read and spoken to use the "parent argument" to claim their god can be both all-loving and yet condemn you to eternal, unrelenting, incomprehensible, pure suffering. It essentially boils down to this: just because your parents punish you for your wrong-doings does not mean they don't love you (unconditionally). They do it because it's what's best for you. How does eternal damnation to incomprehensible suffering qualify as being in one's best interest, in any circumstance? It's not like you're going to learn a lesson and move one, because it's eternal. The purpose is not rehab, it's retributive punishment. I could see how a scenario with an omnibenevolent god who sends people to either heaven or hell would be plausible if people were only sent to hell temporarily, commensurate with their deeds. But then it still doesn't matter what you do or believe, because ultimately, with an all-loving god and a heaven and hell, everyone goes to heaven. And need there exist a heaven and hell along with this omnibenevolent being? No. Just because I exist, doesn't mean some other arbitrary construct has to. So if we have an omnibenevolent being, does that even make for anything? It doesn't necessarily have power over us, since it can't be omnipotent. But back to my very first point: if there's an omnibenevolent being, why is there suffering? If it has the power to eliminate our suffering and it doesn't, then it's cruel and not omnibenevolent. And if it doesn't have that power, then what's the point of it existing? To send us to heaven (which need not exist either)? If it can't cure our suffering now, then does it even have that ability, if heaven exists? It's pointless.

And finally, I noticed your inclusion of "necessarily extant Creator" in your description of a deity. I'm going to assume that you're referring to the "first cause" or "uncaused cause" argument? This argument is very thoroughly refuted in the book I recommended at the beginning. My attempts to recall and transcribe the refutation accurately would not be futile, but they would be poor. I'll put forth a little something anyway. If a theist posits that a god created the universe, that begs the question of who/what created that god? The theist may reply that god was uncaused, it just always was. But that argument is so easily applied to the universe (multiverse?) itself. I can posit that the universe and or existence was uncaused, it just is what it is. (Lawrence Krauss actually demonstrates how this is mathematically/physically possible in his book, "A Universe from Nothing", but we'll keep it strictly hypothetical/philosophical here). It is arbitrary for the theist to dismiss any causes prior to their creator god. Why not go back 3 stages from the creator god? Why not 100? By that extension, why even bring a creator god into the mix? Why can't the universe itself be that uncaused cause? Any attempt to argue that the universe can't be that uncaused cause is to rely upon a cause arbitrarily prior to the universe's existence. To bring science into the mix now, given our understanding that it is physically possible for the universe to have arose from "nothing" (Krauss demonstrates that it is actually impossible for true nothingness to exist, suggesting existence may be infinite, in one form or another), it is redundant and unnecessary to add a previous cause (i.e. a creator god). So if an eternal creator god is unnecessary and redundant, and there is no evidence for such a being, what's the point of believing in one? And regarding my mention of the possibility of existence being eternal, a creator god then makes even less sense. Existence already exists and always has in that scenario, therefore it was not created. A god is not necessary for that scenario, and so there is still no point believing in one.

I will conclude with this, because I saw some posts about faith and how it's a good concept. I think it is an utterly evil concept. It is antithetical to knowledge and reason. By definition, it is the belief in something without evidence. How is this a good thing? One can say that faith in some things is good, while faith in other things is bad, and that faith is not the problem, the things are the problem. No. It does not matter what it is used for, the underlying principal is the same. Faith in a kind god that will send everyone to heaven is in the same intellectual ballpark as faith that killing a group of people will get you into heaven. Reason is our mechanism of survival, and faith is abandonment and/or rejection of that mechanism. It has demonstrated itself to be a slippery slope to violence countless times over human history. To those that argue you have faith in your friends, or that I have faith that my country will come try to save me if I am shot down over hostile terrain: it's not faith, it's trust. Trust is based on evidence, and on promises and contracts between people. It's based on reasons based in reality. I trust my friends because they are reliable. I trust the gov't to come get me if I get shot down because they've done it before when feasible. I trust that I can walk down the street and not get mugged because it's statistically unlikely (and because I carry concealed, look out robbers), etc. Faith is irrational and therefore evil. Trust is based in reality.

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Apr 16 at 2015 4:26 PM

PFC Eric Minchey — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:26:47 -0400

I say this: I BELIEVE! I can never find a way to argue down you that don’t believe, but I believe in the Lord God Almighty, all knowing and all forgiving. And I believe that Good shall be triumphant in the end and that evil shall be vanquished. I believe in a hereafter. I figure a man’s got to believe in those things, does he want to believe in the good things about man? about his very own self? The real good things like courage, honesty and love.

Response by SFC Adam Miller made Apr 16 at 2015 5:02 PM

SFC Adam Miller — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:02:16 -0400

Yes! When I look in depth at creation it shows that it didn't just happen by accident.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Apr 16 at 2015 6:49 PM

SFC Walt Littleton — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:49:31 -0400

Wow, very interesting commentary on this subject! Great Debate! So here is my thought since everyone had one.

It seems most of the debate for non-belief is from younger service me members. I can appreciate the new generation and their need to know everything and why. Guess what? You will never be able read research and understand everything in this life. Don't take this personally at all. When you have lived as long as me and been through all I have then we can sit down and talk about life.

You never ASSUME as I was taught at a very young age!

Before you get your drawers all tied in knots "I'm A CHRISTIAN" and very proud of that fact. I'm not perfect because I'm human and my GOD gave me a brain to make my own decisions and I must say along the way I made a few I regret but for the most part I did alright and still going strong. i've read the Bible and I believe what says. I can also refer back to it when I'm contemplating tough issues.

See I have been a non-believer even though I was raised as a church going Christian. I learned more about life and the world through my Christianity. The most interesting thing about my religion is that no mater what I do it brings me back to my center and guides me through a better life. I do believe there is a place for my soul once my physical body fails me.

NOW WAIT! Before everyone that doesn't agree with how I feel is fine with me. You don't have the right to criticize or persecute me for my beliefs unless I force you to believe or suffer the consequences

There will never be a time when all humans will agree with one Religion. The debate has been going on since the beginning of time and will not be solved by anyone on RP. MILLIONS HAVE DIED AND MILLIONS MORE WILL DIE WITHOUT ANY MORE EDUCATION, KNOWLEDGE OR OPPINIONS. I do know that MY GOD taught me right from wrong and my parents insured I followed the same path. This has allowed me to live in peace and harmony and know that there is something more when my body fails.

I'm not going to call anyone by any mane because it doesn't need to be said. I feel sorry for other humans who don't believe. Just my feelings, it has nothing to do with you, they are my feelings. It doesn't require you to say anything to me I'm only answering the original question that was asked.

I believe in God, I'm a Christian and the Bible explains everything I need to know. I'm not telling you to believe so. Why do you feel the need for me to prove anything. It's your job to decide whether you want to believe or not. It doesn't require a debate. That debate has killed millions and still is.

So, humans decide if you want believe in what Christians believe or not. It's your personal choice with you and what you want to believe. My religion works for me and I would be happy to explain my thoughts about what I believe one on one but I will not push my thoughts on you.

Non-Believers I hear all the time "Show Me The Proof", well I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else it's what I believe. The only question non-believers need to ask is if they believe or not. If you don't it's alright with me however, you don't have the right to question or try to debate me on what I believe.

If you don't believe that's fine with me. That is your prerogative and is none of my concern.

When you decide to use this media to ask such an ignorant question only to create animosity. You have to admit, you knew before you even wrote the question on here that you would not find the answer. Additionally you were not able to give a difinative rebuttel to your theory.

Stupid Debate: if everyone was supposed to be the same and have the same oppinion we can look back in history and you can see how that worked out.

This poster hung on my office wall and I required every new person read if and understand it before I would hire them. For those who read this and think it's weak, I can assure you I don't allow substandard performance and I did my 20 and another 30 on top of that and like my Dad always. said. "Son, sometimes you have go back to the basics to see what happened". At my age my memory isn't as quick so I don't remember the author.

"EVERYTHINGI EVER LEARNED ABOUT LIFE I LEAENED IN KINDERGARTEN" . I learned how to treat other people with respect, even if they didn't feel the same way. I learned that you don't hurt other people. Sometimes it's alright to get your blankie and take a nap and lastly it's alright once in awhile to eat cookies and milk before your nap or bed but don't forget to share.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 7:19 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 19:19:08 -0400

Its all up to you! If you believe or not.

Response by A1C Jared Gonzalez made Apr 16 at 2015 7:22 PM

A1C Jared Gonzalez — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 19:22:34 -0400

Only you can answer that question for yourself.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 16 at 2015 8:21 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:21:30 -0400

Congrats to SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA on this maelstrom of points.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Apr 17 at 2015 2:21 AM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 02:21:59 -0400

No, god does not exist. The book of bible is a product of many written gospels from the view and opinions of many so-called eyewitnesses who had died decades before anything was put on a scroll. Who’s to say how accurate these written scripture are in tribute to Jesus life? There is no proof that the bible is god's word to humanity. If there is a god, why does he speak in plural? In Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let 'us' make man in 'our' image, after 'our' likeness", if there is only one powerful god as it is taught in the bible, he would said "I", "me", and "my".

If there is a god, where does he live? The universe is vast, cosmologist and physicist convey that, to comprehend just how enormous the universe is, imagine a galaxy is the size of a grain of sand; the universe is the size of the entire ocean on Earth. In addition, if you look at the picture of our galaxy, our solar system is but a grain of sand in the Milky Way. It is also said, there are more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches on Earth.

I believe that by chance, since our planet happened to be in the CHZ (Continuously Habitable Zone). This allowed life to flourished, giving life to creatures of all kind until humanity became the dominate species due to our intelligences. Another possibility is that we were created by a much higher and more advance civilization/species since human history does not go back more than a few hundred thousand years and Earth is billions of years old. Since the last great extinction was estimated to be a dozen or so millions years ago with the end of the dinosaurs and our history begin a few hundred thousand years ago, what happen to the time in between the millions of years and the hundred thousand years?

From the beginning of human history, a few hundred thousand years ago until now. It basically took human hundreds of thousands of years to become technically advance and the last hundred year from 1900-2000, we excel tremendously and technologically. From airplanes, TV, microwave oven, put a man on the moon, to internet. Does god really exist? I would have to say no because science has proven otherwise.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 11:10 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:10:06 -0400

I can not make you believe in God, I can only tell you my Experiences and why I believe in God. and what being a Christian means to me. it is impossible for me or anyone else to change anyones mind all that can be done is to share experiences and let someone make up there own mind.

Response by CW3 Craig Linghor made Apr 17 at 2015 11:55 AM

CW3 Craig Linghor — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:55:25 -0400

There is a God and He is not me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 1:53 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:53:03 -0400

Without a doubt... God exists! I exist because he exists. Their is no explanation for the complex yet well developed way that our mind and bodies operate, the way the sun and moon revolve around the earth, the weather patterns, and the splendor of the universe and it's many constellations. Their must be a God somewhere! If not... Is life worth living?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 2:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:14:50 -0400

Yes God exist. Not for the naked eye. But for the heart. That's why we have faith,faith can make you feel everything or nothing at all it depends on how strong your faith is my friend, war exist,killing and spoling the blood of the innocent exist that means the devil exist,domon exist, and for damn sure God exist as he is the creator of everything and everyone

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Apr 17 at 2015 3:26 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 15:26:16 -0400

Walk outside and take a GOOD look around. We know there has been some evolution over the past 3.5 billion years, but there WAS a starting point. We know from a scientific perspective there was a "Big Bang" moment. This universe is still expanding outward. There are mountains and plains, there is fresh water and salt water. There are 8.7 million different species on Earth. All of this points directly to "intelligent design". All so called God's (Buddha, as an example) were born and died on Earth, regardless of age at the time of death.

GOD has always existed, exists today and will exist for eternity. The "Big Bang" moment was when GOD chose to create our Heaven and Earth. Omnibenevolence is proven by GOD impregnating the Virgin Mary, Jesus Christ born and lived as a physical being on Earth for 33 years and while dying on the rugged cross he forgave all sins committed previously and, all sins that would ever BE committed.

Christians comprise 32% of our worlds' population. No, not proof but quite a strong argument FOR his existence.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 4:37 PM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:37:05 -0400

The God you're seeking evidence for doesn't exist. There is no omnibenevolent God in scripture.

Reading most of the comments I did shows that the discussion tended to focus on cosmology and that is a completely different question to ponder. Of course there were the nomral discussions of the source of morality as well, also another discussion completely.

Response by SSG Steven Rollison made Apr 17 at 2015 4:42 PM

SSG Steven Rollison — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:42:11 -0400

This question seems to be something I ask myself every single day and yet I can't ever seem to really find an answer. I believe that there is something in this universe that exist and is more that just human, I just don't have any facts that it is just one God and he is the same one from the Bible. I used to be down right christian that always tried to argue the existence of God and Jesus, but now I'm all about the facts. The bible tells stories and they are great stories. I just don't let those stories lead my life. I believe that God could exist and I will never stop praying that he does. I let the bible guide my morals but not my beliefs.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Apr 17 at 2015 5:42 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 17:42:03 -0400

If you're looking for rock solid physical proof you're never going to find it.

Faith is everything... I as a believer know this, and Hebrews 11 confirms it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 6:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:56:51 -0400

I used to believe in god , however i lost my faith when my family collapsed and now i dont talk to my father , I havent seen my mother in about 25 yrs , my brother dont wanna talk to me and all my friends separated them selves from me when i deployed for the first time. And all i used to do is pray when i was a kid everynight beggin GOD for a family and love and peace. so in the end I dont believe that there is a GOD but i do believe that Jesus existed (only based on recent research and documentaries ).

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made Apr 17 at 2015 9:59 PM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:59:36 -0400

God exists not out there, but in my heart. God is the fuel that drives my value system. God is the reason I survived death to this point.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 11:03 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 23:03:37 -0400

the bible is a great "story" its got undead, supreme beings, wizards, unicorns, dragons, all sorts of stuff. but to genuinely believe a man talked to a burning bush? wtf, if you changed the names in that book, gave it a new title, and read it then some one told you it was all fact you would call them an idiot. I mean we thank god for food that we found, worked to pay for then cooked our selves. god has never put food on my table, kept me warm at night, stopped my family from dying in Katrina, stopped my friends from getting killed while fighting evil. but yet we still pray to this being to swoop down and save us. work your entire lives and earn every thing you have then some on tells you to thank god for him giving you every thing have? cmon lets get on the same page here and quit praying that a super being will save us and spend our time and effort investing in science, technology, fixing OUR planet instead of building churches and brainwashing children to believe in a fairy tale

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 1:42 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 01:42:28 -0400

I would love to know why you think that's an appropriate topic for discussions on RP. Why can't we keep it secular here?

Response by AN Eric Miller made Apr 18 at 2015 12:51 PM

AN Eric Miller — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 12:51:56 -0400

When confronted with this question before, something took place shortly after the conversation, I stumbled across this program being aired titled "Startling Proofs" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-ZVq5hoEHo Here is a link to the edited youtube version of the program.. It is quite informative and answers some of the questions even posed by some "atheists"

I personally believe in God and Yeshua(commonly called Jesus) of Nazareth as my risen savior..

Startling Proofs- Does God Really Exist?

To order the unedited full length version, please visit www.cloudtenpictures.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 8:55 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:55:51 -0400

Response by SSG John Jensen made Apr 18 at 2015 9:03 PM

SSG John Jensen — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 21:03:39 -0400

any being that created the mosquito does not deserve to worshipped - if god cannot stop evil, he is impotent and doesn't deserve to be worshipped; if he won't stop evil, he is evil, and doesn't deserve to be worshipped

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 12:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 00:14:43 -0400

I have learned that there is no god. Example. The Holocaust.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 4:36 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 04:36:23 -0400

We had over 1500 hundred years in Europe where the church controlled everything. The best minds in the world were engaged in debates about how many angels could fit on the head of a pin, and the church rarely hesitated to torture anyone who questioned it's dogma. Now days we refer to this era as the "dark ages" because we used religion and superstition to guide us, instead of reason and science. It took the plague to wake us from the stupor of religion we were stuck in. Priests, Bishops, nobels, and knights died in the same proportion as peasants, serfs, harlots, and trades people. Devotion, piety, and loyalty to church provided no protection, shaking the faith of people from all walks of life. We finally began seeking answers outside of prayer and dogma. Surging intellectual energy, dammed for a millennium in ecclesiastical reservoirs, began to flow through the pestilence-inspired breach. Five hundred years after the renaissance, at a time when nations and corporations rival the church in their claims to people's loyalties, we have experienced a more dramatic expansion of knowledge and capability than ever before: Air travel, telephone and radio communication, television, personal computers, the internet, revolutionary advances in agriculture, automation, and medicine that we all take for granted... We've landed men on the moon and machines on Mars... We've done all of that in spite of your religion, not because of it. Now you can believe in a religion created 2000 years ago by people who could not read or write, who believed a jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul, that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. It is a free country. You can believe that if you want... But don't expect to be able to inject that garbage into our government, or into public policy. The rest of us will not stand for that.

Response by PV2 Violet Case made Apr 19 at 2015 1:18 PM

PV2 Violet Case — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 13:18:21 -0400

I had posted that we have had fires all around us even the national guard and a couple of black hawks are up here. But a new fire started 2 and 3/4 from my home right near our big window factory by the airport and only road close to go to Canada and we would have been blocked there too. I came home from store and a evac notice was back on the answering machine again. the other fire in forest restarted or got worse. I prayed and said a prayer on facebook asking all my friends reading it to pray with me. In the night it rained and is raining a bit now today. We prayed that God show that He loves and cares for His people and to protect us from harm and show that He is mighter then fire. And it rained. So what do you think do you think He is real and answers because I do.

Response by MSgt Sean McDowell made Apr 19 at 2015 2:42 PM

MSgt Sean McDowell — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 14:42:39 -0400

I don't believe any gods exist. Just look at all the death and destruction in the world today. Most of it in the name of a god or prophet. This topic could be endlessly debated and all I know is that the world would be a better place without religion.

http://www.atheist-meme.com/imagine-john-lennon-cartoon---atheist-meme.php

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 5:57 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:57:39 -0400

The existence of anything is proof of an omnipotent God (the ability to defy the first law of thermodynamics by adding energy in an isolated system proves omnipotence). If an omnipotent God created everything, then he would know what He created (omniscience). If He created it, then He makes the rules; and hence is omnibenevolent since He determines goodness. If not bound by the laws of the physical universe He created (in direct violation of the first law of thermodynamics-- matter and/or energy cannot be created or destroyed); there is no reason to believe He would be bound by the second (increase in the sum of entropies. Everything tends toward disorder, and energy tends toward dissipation) hence eternal and extant.

Response by PO2 Floyd Fowler made Apr 19 at 2015 7:22 PM

PO2 Floyd Fowler — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:22:53 -0400

Well my take on it is I would rather live my life believing that there is, and there not be, than live my life thinking there is not and there be.... Something happened 2015 years ago....

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Apr 19 at 2015 7:56 PM

SSG Stephen Arnold — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:56:38 -0400

Arguments? I'm not interested in them. I don't believe that God is real.

I KNOW He is.

Response by Cpl Carlos Olvera made Apr 19 at 2015 10:09 PM

Cpl Carlos Olvera — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 22:09:59 -0400

There are eye witness accounts of what Jesus did and there absolutely is an empty tomb in Jerusalem today. I am His witness and He lives in me. If you or anyone who comes across this message want to hear my testimony of who I was before and what I am in Christ Jesus today inbox me please. Seek Him out while He still maybe found

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 12:03 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 00:03:14 -0400

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/opinion/sunday/t-m-luhrmann-faith-vs-facts.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0&referrer=

I don't think we'll ever be able to answer that question considering that people make claims about the nature of thier god(s) that are not able to be scientifically studied or tested. But we can say with more and more confidence is that people are willing to suspend or alter certain aspects of their reasoning/decision making when they're talking and thinking about God. I linked a nice little op-Ed piece that talks about it.

If you want to learn more about our brains, history and cultural landscape interacts with religious belief and expression check out this great article by two big researchers in cognitive and behavioral sciences (link to article and citation below). http://jeannicod.ccsd.cnrs.fr/file/index/docid/53636/filename/ijn_00000596_02.pdf

Atran, S., & Norenzayan, A. (2004). Religion's evolutionary landscape: Counterintuition, commitment, compassion, communion. Behavioral and brain sciences, 27(06), 713-730.

Response by CMSgt David Wedington made Apr 20 at 2015 4:02 PM

CMSgt David Wedington — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:02:24 -0400

Let's keep it simple. Read the Bible.

Response by Cpl Robert Clark made Apr 20 at 2015 4:14 PM

Cpl Robert Clark — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:14:15 -0400

Romans Chapter 1 should answer the question. S/F!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 6:23 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:23:07 -0400

Whoa. Touchy subject, to be sure. To put a military perspective on this, it doesn't matter what you believe in, arguments can swing either way- but what everyone wearing the uniform does believe in is goodness. Goodness doesn't have to stem from an organized religion, and more often than not, replaces religion as the spiritual tenet for agnostics and atheists. In my opinion, goodness should be the critical factor to believe in, not an organized religion.

-However, I do believe there is a God, and I, based off observation and personal experience, believe he has a sick sense of humor- but he means well and that's what counts.

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made Apr 20 at 2015 6:26 PM

PV2 Abbott Shaull — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:26:53 -0400

TO not believe someone out there created and set things into motion seems kinda foolish. Especially when you go from tribe to tribe oral and written history that we know about. All have a story about a Great Flood similar to Noah in the Bible.

Next look at some of the most spectacular victories of the IDF over their hostile since 1947 to 1980. Many times they were at numeric disadvantages, but somehow under some unknown protection won against the odds with there highly trained Armor Corps, Airborne and Special Operation troops to mobilize. Air Force units were able to gain local Air Superiority and keep it along several Fronts at the same time, have the advantage af operating from a central location, disadvantage of having to go out on seek and destroy missions.

Also take for instance the Jewish Faith is the basis for Christianit and Islam. All three worship the same God/Allah. It is really all in the interpetation of their respective view of study they have been taught. Islam is one religion where there is no true supreme leader like we find in many of the Christian Organizations. No Bishops, Priest just Deacons who have shown an ablity to teach the Quaran. nothing else really, and they have only two flavors, you hAve government based on the teachings, or a more liberal one. There is no middle ground.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 7:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 19:29:34 -0400

There is zero scientific evidence for the existence of any omnipresent, omniscient god, and a heck of a lot of evidence of human gullibility.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 7:33 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 19:33:14 -0400

Somebody try and argue why a god needs to exist in the first place.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Apr 20 at 2015 8:38 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:38:00 -0400

I gotta give you kudos for having the big brass ones to even bring up this topic!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Apr 20 at 2015 8:39 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:39:31 -0400

I believe there is a higher entity, though my faith is often tested by scientific explanation.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 9:22 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:22:53 -0400

The best argument for God and a Creator is the Cosmological Argument. The Law of Cause and Effect support creation and intelligent design. These are just logical arguments. The best proof is the work that God has done in my life and my family's life.

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 1:52 AM

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 01:52:09 -0400

Perhaps the more important question - no matter what you do or don't believe as an individual, do you have the patience and discipline to tolerate the beliefs of others as a leader?

Response by SSG Larry Penn made Apr 21 at 2015 2:42 AM

SSG Larry Penn — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 02:42:57 -0400

God does exist. If God doesn't exist, then who created mankind? Who created the other species of life? The argument that mankind evolved from the monkey makes a monkey out of evolutionist and those that believe what they claim to prove. Who created the earth, sun, moon and stars? Everything, all creation that is, has order to it instead of chaos. How could something just appear and remain stable for thousands of years? How about a intelligent designer? Sounds like God to me. A designer of clothes, jewelry, cars etc.. has specifications of their respective products. This is the case for the earth, sun, moon and stars. They were all specifically designed/created and are still maintained by God. I have a relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. And with that relationship, I know about the way, the truth and the life that is all in Jesus. The Bible is a powerful tool if one would just try and read it with an open heart and not look at it as just another book written by human beings. People put faith in so many other things, people and objects but fail to even try to find the truth within the covers of the Bible. God is real.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 8:22 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 08:22:17 -0400

Without adding to or taking anything away from this discussion I will say this:

Take a look at - the human ear (the inner ear - stirrup, anvil, etc...), heart, eye, lung, stomach and spinal chord. Take the time, if you don't know, to study and truly understand how they operate. Understand their immense complexity. Comprehend how the smallest things can damage them how we have built in mechanisms for correction: tears for something in your eye, a cough for something irritating your lung or the violent way your stomach gets rid of something causing it to be upset (mental image intended...)

I will not mention a newborn baby or the human brain - the best computer ever made, er, creat... Wait! Wow! That's my point!

It's easier for me to have faith in a Creator than it is to logically believe that these miraculous parts of our bodies "evolved" from a lightning strike into a cosmic mud puddle.

Allow me to play the "Devil's Advocate" for a moment. For the sake of argument, let's agree that the Bolt of Lightning theory is correct. The Evolutionist would have you believe that homo sapiens are the end result in the chain of events leading from the Bolt. Where are the dead ends? The mutants? The wrong turns? I'm not even asking for the "Missing Link." The process is not perfect. If Evolution were true, scientists would be finding evidence of the failures. Consider the Human Being alone - no other living animal. We're supposed to accept on, excuse the choice of words, Blind Faith, that the eye, ear, lung, etc... all came out fully functional with the Mark I model? Another thought... Also relying on Blind Faith to believe that all of these organs functioned in one creature perfectly the first time. Have you studied the human reproductive system and understand how DNA goes into making us who we are? So...the 2 parts that fit together to begin this reproductive process... Those parts came out perfectly and worked perfectly the first time. Really? Where are the failures.

Time for a curve ball. We're supposed to accept on Blind Faith that Blood (and blood types) are also the end result of the Bolt theory. So... the oxygen created by photosynthesis (another amazing byproduct of the Big Bang theory (also never proven, I might add), just magically attached itself to the red blood cells the FIRST time this new creature took a breath. By the way, if you didn't know it, oxygen doesn't mix well with water. In order for the O2 to be picked up by the red blood cell there had to be a transport module. This is called Hemoglobin. There are about 150.5 x 10(18th) Hb molecules in 100ml of whole blood. Each molecule contains 4 polypeptide chains. Each chain contains one iron ion. This is the site of the O2 binding. Take a look at the link below with the Hb molecule. Extremely complex. This molecule and this process are the result of the Bolt theory? This molecule didn't evolve it was correct the first time? So...all of this occurred without hiccup, without speed bump, burp or failure? Really?

I'll throw you another curve: I am what would be traditionally called (in a society without PC) a WASP. A White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant male. How cool is it, that with the exception of a few well known genetic traits, I am identical to a man from Japan, China, Africa, Asia, Europe, South America or wherever you can think of. My heart, lungs, eyes and other organs are identical to these gentlemen from around the world. You say where's the curve ball? Think about it. If the Theory of Evolution were in control, once Pangaea did it's tectonic dance, the reality is that evolution would have probably kept changing these creatures which would become us. Don't think so? Check out the Platypus.

Which takes more faith, to believe that all I've described above resulted from a stray bolt of lightning in a mud puddle or to believe that there is a God who loves and created all of us?

Because I am a simple man and choose to NOT overthink things, I'll stand on my faith and, by the way, my faith is not blind...

Semper Fi.

hemoglobin molecule - بحث Google

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 9:55 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 09:55:14 -0400

Ever heard: what do you get when you have agnostic who's also dyslexic and insomniac? Someone who stays up all night pondering on the existence of a Dog.

Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)

Response by CPL Rob N. made Apr 21 at 2015 11:14 AM

CPL Rob N. — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 11:14:06 -0400

Does it really matter? Whether you believe or not. Which ever you believe, if it is true in your heart, no one can take that from you.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 1:43 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 13:43:55 -0400

I'm sure I'll catch some flack for this. The belief in G-d is something that is faith based. There is no physical manifestation of G-d walking about the earth to come to your door and have a chat with you.

Many atheists and agnostics will state creation of the universe occurred through the big bang theory and that evolution has created the organic life we find on earth. Remarkably, the explanation of near instantaneous occurrence of universe building is pretty much what the Jewish and Christian beliefs say happened anyways. With science, they claim it simply occurred. With creation theory, they claim somebody, in this case G-d, caused it to occur.

I personally have always believed evolution to be absolute nonsense. I personally find their "proofs" for it to be spurious and fictitious at best.

As with anything related to religion, it is a matter of what you personally feel and believe in. Outside of interpersonal relationships, this is the only subject that I would generally say also falls into the category of what you feel.

I'll put it this way, if you're in the army or corps, you've probably tossed a hand grenade at least once. Did the explosion cause new life to begin and organisms to develop defined cellular structure? Just my .02

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 5:35 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 17:35:56 -0400

If you truly look for God you will find him. People who don't believe in God choose not to. It's that simple. There is an overabundance of evidence to support the Biblical accounts of history, science, and theology. The people who tell you otherwise have not done the research themselves. If you want an easy example, research Noah's Ark. They found the ark on top of a mountain in the dimensions described in the Bible. I promise, no cult went through the effort of climbing a mountain and building an ark just to verify their story.

Response by CW3 Kenneth Triplett made Apr 21 at 2015 9:47 PM

CW3 Kenneth Triplett — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 21:47:49 -0400

Yes God does exist. When the Holy Spirit lives in you, you know without a doubt He exists.

Response by SSgt Thomas L. made Apr 21 at 2015 10:43 PM

SSgt Thomas L. — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:43:25 -0400

The single biggest, glaring contradiction within Christianity is the belief in the existence of Hell. (Jews do not believe in Hell, per say.) Christians believe that there exists a being who has total omniscience (knows everything) and total omnipotence (can do anything) and creates the universe which we know and love, then creates people to populate it with. It is claimed over and over that this God loves us as his children. For those of us who have children, what do you want for them? Do you want them to live their entire lives groveling at your feet, thanking you for giving them life, or do you want them to strike out on their own, be good people and find their own way? All of the evidence in the Bible points to God being an abusive parent. He is petty, jealous, vindictive and insecure. He states under no uncertain terms that if we do not obey his every word and give our lives to him in service, he will condemn our immortal souls to eternal suffering.

If you're to believe most Christians, God does not want us to grow as individuals. He does not want us to explore His creation and find meaning and understanding in the wonder if the universe. He wants us to point to everything we do not understand and say "God did it!"

I am not an atheist. I can't stand hard atheists who claim that God definitely does not exist at all. There is no statement that is more un-scientific. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Deity is an unknown... the ultimate unknown. Any one who says with certainty that God does or does not exist subscribes to a dangerous form of fundamentalism.

I am a weak agnostic... or a weak theist, depending on the day. If a divine being did create the universe, he left it at that and left no specific instructions that were not filtered through layers of human ego. I have no problem believing in a creator deity, but it is NOT the God of Abraham. That God is not a true God... it is an evil, selfish, prideful demon that has caused immense amounts of human death and suffering by way of willful ignorance.

(Edited for clarity)

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made Apr 21 at 2015 11:44 PM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 23:44:24 -0400

What if God considers Earth and asks if we truly exist? What evidence can we show that we exist? That our existence is making an impact and we aren't just taking up space. The dead take up space. The living exist - we hope. Do you exist? Prove it.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 22 at 2015 2:21 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 02:21:44 -0400

When it boils down to it, no one can really prove anything. The only arguments are some theories and events that may have occurred in the past and present. No hard evidence on the existence, or non-existence of any higher power.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 4:10 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 04:10:57 -0400

We cannot prove nor disprove the existence of a creator. Further, we cannot prove nor disprove the idea and concept that the creator desires to be worshiped. The only truly logical conclusion is to be an Agnostic. Sure -- there might be something out there, but they haven't made themselves unquestionably known to me.

Further, religion itself is far more cultural based than truly truth based. If you were born in almost any part of the Middle East -- you'd most likely be Muslim. Traditions have a lot more to do with it than any "truth."

Response by SrA Elizabeth Fontenot made Apr 22 at 2015 5:56 AM

SrA Elizabeth Fontenot — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 05:56:22 -0400

I believe that God does exist. One of the reasons is because of an incident that Lady Antebellum's Hillary Scott was involved in last week. The bus that she, her husband, driver, and manager were in had a flat tire and caught on fire (the back of the bus) and every thing in that area was burned except for the inside of Hillary's bible.

Response by LCDR Jeffery Dixon made Apr 22 at 2015 9:54 AM

LCDR Jeffery Dixon — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:54:49 -0400

Difficult to be in the open desert, look up to the Milky Way on a moonless night and not see the face of God.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Apr 22 at 2015 12:53 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 12:53:18 -0400

From an empirical standpoint, (without using the Bible) I would start by saying that the premise of science is that all things in the universe are orderly and lawful. This is called determinism. Science would not be possible if things happened randomly because you couldn't predict from observations what might happen next.

Law and order do not flow from chaos. Lawlessness and disorder lead to destruction, not creation. Therefore, there had to be an orderly Creator. If there was a Creator, and created all that you see and all that you haven't seen, then rationally, the Creator had a reason for creating. If the Creator had a reason for creating us, and we have the faculties to ponder creation and extistentialism, then it is logical to assume that the Creator created us with this function on purpose and that the Creator chooses to reveal the purpose for Creation and to share it with us. If we were created with logical functions, communica-toon and a sense of purpose, then it is logical that the Creator would communicate with us and share certain laws of the universe that will help us thrive as a civilization. (Such as the Bible). If the Creator went through so much trouble to create us, communicate with us, provide a framework for civilization for us, then he would also protect his investment at all costs to save us from ourselves. Having done all that, he should expect us to worship in in gratitude.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Apr 22 at 2015 1:40 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 13:40:06 -0400

An Estimate of the Probability for Attaining the Necessary Parameters for Life Support

Parameter Probability that feature will fall in the required range
galaxy size .1
galaxy type .1
galaxy location .1
star location relative to galactic center .2
star distance from closest spiral arm .1
z-axis extremes of star's orbit .1
proximity of solar nebula to a supernova eruption .01
timing of solar nebula formation relative to supernova eruption .01
number of stars in system .2
star birth date .2
star age .4
star metallicity .05
star orbital eccentricity .1
star's distance from galactic plane .1
star mass .001
star luminosity relative to speciation .0001
star color .4
3H+ production .1
supernovae rates and locations .01
white dwarf binary types, rates, and locations .01
planetary distance from star .001
inclination of planetary orbit .5
planetary axis tilt .3
rate of change of axial tilt .01
planetary rotation period .1
rate of change in planetary rotation period .05
planetary orbit eccentricity .3
surface gravity (escape velocity) .001
tidal force .1
magnetic field .01
albedo .1
density .1
planetary crust thickness .01
oceans-to-continents ratio .2
rate of change in oceans-to-continents ratio .1
global distribution of continents .3
frequency and extent of ice ages .1
asteroid and comet collision rate .1
change in asteroid and comet collision rates .1
mass of body colliding with primordial Earth .002
timing of collision with primordial Earth .05
rate of change in asteroid/comet collision rate .1
proximity and mass of Jupiter .01
major planet eccentricities .1
major planet orbital instabilities .1
drift rate and rate change of major planets .1
atmospheric transparency .01
atmospheric pressure .1
atmospheric electric discharge rate .1
atmospheric temperature gradient .01
carbon dioxide level in atmosphere .01
oxygen level in atmosphere .01
chlorine level in atmosphere .1
iron quantity in oceans .1
tropospheric ozone quantity .01
stratospheric ozone quantity .01
mesospheric ozone quantity .01
water vapor level in atmosphere .01
oxygen-to-nitrogen ratio in atmosphere .1
quantity of greenhouse gases in atmosphere .01
frequency and extent of forest and grass fires .01
soil mineralization .1
quantity of sea-salt aerosols .1
quantity of decomposer bacteria in soil .01
quantity of mycorrhizal fungi in soil .01
quantity of nitrifying microbes in soil .01
quantity of sulfur in soil .1
quantity of sulfur in planet's core .1
tectonic activity .1
volcanic activity .1
decline in volcanic activity .1
viscosity of Earth's core at core boundaries .01
biomass to comet-infall ratio .01
regularity of cometary infall .1
dependency factors (estimate) 100,000,000,000
longevity requirements (estimate) .00001
Probability for combined occurrence of all 75 parameters = 10-99

Maximum possible number of planets in universe = 1023

Taken from Ross, H. 1998. Big Bang Refined by Fire. Reasons To Believe, Pasadena, CA.

By putting together probabilities for each of these design features occurring by chance, we can calculate the probability of the existence of a planet like Earth. This probability is 1 chance in 1099. Since there are estimated to be a maximum of only 1023 planets in the universe (10 planets/star, see note below), by chance there shouldn't be any planets capable of supporting life in the universe. Our existence suggests divine intervention and design. The design and care with which the laws of physics, the universe, our galaxy, our solar system, and the planet Earth were crafted suggests that God is caring and loving. He put in a lot of time in the design and creation of the universe so that we would have a nice place to live for such a short period of time. I could go on if necessary

Response by Cpl John Henry made Apr 22 at 2015 2:19 PM

Cpl John Henry — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 14:19:37 -0400

My personal opinion is no. The only difference between me and most posters is that I am 100% atheist and most of you are 99%..as you reject all the other gods throughout history prior to monotheism. The existence of the universe and human beings is not proof of God but proof that we exist. However, religion and the belief is simply not provable nor unprovable but a belief. And if your belief gets you through your day then run with it.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 3:45 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 15:45:04 -0400

I'm currious as to what you were hoping to get out of asking this question, more specifically with the fashion in which you asked; mostly it seems to me that this was possited as a way to stir a hornets nest. I could obviously be wrong in that assumption.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Apr 22 at 2015 5:01 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 17:01:41 -0400

I believe in a Supreme Being (God), so for me He is real. As for others, well that is up to them. I don't believe in pushing my beliefs on others and I hope others will show me the same respect

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 6:08 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 18:08:05 -0400

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

Response by CPO Emmett (Bud) Carpenter made Apr 22 at 2015 8:43 PM

CPO Emmett (Bud) Carpenter — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:43:11 -0400

If you are not a Christian that does not make you a bad or evil person. It just means you chose not to be a Christian. The holy sprit came into my heart when I was 12 years old. He is still there 58 years later. He is just as real now as he was then. You either believe or you don't,it's up to you. I'm happy with my life,I hope you are happy with yours.

Response by SPC Lee Burner made Apr 22 at 2015 10:34 PM

SPC Lee Burner — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:34:37 -0400

I think one of the best arguments for the existence of God is the argument presented by Thomas Aquinas. I don't have enough time to go through his entire claim but he relates the existence to God by correlating it to motion and a first mover who set things in motion. The best argument in my opinion for the nonexistence of God is by Stephen Hawking. In my opinion however Hawkings argument doesn't explain the necessity of the physical constants of the universe and their precision enough to cast doubt on the existence of God because in his essay on the origin and fate of the universe he doesn't account for these physical constants. The best reconciliation I can find is in the theory of fine tuning which gives credence to a belief in s supreme being or divine architect. Anyway it's much more than I can get into over this text but I would read up on Thonas Aquinas, Hawking, fine-tuning theory, or string theory.

Response by PO3 Robert Gunderson made Apr 23 at 2015 12:31 AM

PO3 Robert Gunderson — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:31:19 -0400

The best way I can respond to your question is this way, for me God does exist. He is as real as you and me. When the @^% hits the fan you will find more guys and gals who did not belive in God praying to God in their holes on a dark, stormy and explosive night with plenty of enemy action (and deadly fireworks) going on. Now it is up to each individual to find there own path to their deity (God) and express that belief. All I can do is encourage that exploration for each individual and support each one who finds their deity. You and every person has the right to express God in their own way and be respected fore it. There is a magazine out there called Freedom get the latest issue on religion. That may help you.

Response by SGT Christopher Flansburg made Apr 23 at 2015 3:27 PM

SGT Christopher Flansburg — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:27:55 -0400

Nope

Response by SPC Michael Frugoli made Apr 23 at 2015 9:28 PM

SPC Michael Frugoli — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 21:28:15 -0400

I respect everyone's thoughts, its OK for those to not agree. me personally i believe something has created this world. i wont give it a name or a title. they is a lot of proof out there FOR and AGAINST the existence of "God" i guess you can argue all day but in the end you cant change the mind sometimes.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 10:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 22:31:27 -0400

Yes. End of story

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 11:35 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 23:35:55 -0400

I do not choose to argue however I do choose to believe.

Response by SGT Sean Arceo made Apr 24 at 2015 11:59 AM

SGT Sean Arceo — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:59:32 -0400

God does truly exist. I believe in his power, and that he watches us and hears our prayers. God isn't a state of mind, God is a real divinity.

Response by SFC(P) Aaron Fore made Apr 24 at 2015 1:17 PM

SFC(P) Aaron Fore — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:17:10 -0400

I am going with yes, God does exist. There is far too much diversity of life on this planet to imagine that a “Big Bang” created it all and if we evolved from sea creatures or monkeys over a billion years, why are there still sea creatures and monkeys?

Response by CPT Carl Kisely made Apr 24 at 2015 1:44 PM

CPT Carl Kisely — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:44:21 -0400

The argument against god is quite simple, actually. There is absolutely no evidence for him/her/them. If we are considering a SPECIFIC god (say, bible god as an example) we are able to examine individual claims. All such gods, bible god, included, fail in many or most of these claims. And if we leave it generally vague, but consider omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, and omnibenevolence, then god is impossible based on reality. (The problem of evil, for those that are familiar, has been argued to no resolution and remains a problem.) In investigating what is real and what is not real in the world (science) we have continually found completely natural causes to all phenomenon. Sun movement is not a daily task of a god. Seasons are not controlled by a god. Diversity of life was not created by a god. The list of deity controlled or influenced events is too lengthy for this or nearly any webpage, but the key point is so far, 100% of the events we have investigated turned out to be natural events. God is, therefore, an ever receding pocket of ignorance. To recap, zero evidence. Mountains of specific claims refuted. Logically inconsistent. Diminishing influence due to knowledge uncovered through investigation. And, if I may add a single personal note, unnecessary.

Response by SSgt Maurice Johnson made Apr 24 at 2015 4:12 PM

SSgt Maurice Johnson — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:12:11 -0400

All one has to do is look up at the sky at night, walk in the forest in springtime/summer, look into the eyes of your children, loved one and pets; take time to observe the beauty of all life on this planet, to not see the mystery, awe, and wonder of the evidence of a creator of all things.

FIRST ONE HAS TO OPEN THEIR MINDS AND GET AWAY FROM THE DISTRACTION OF THIS SOCIETY AND GET BACK TO REALTY, TO THINGS THAT MATTER....It all depends on what matters to you, in order to see the truth of a creator.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 6:25 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:25:48 -0400

Let's be honest here. Is there really anyone that is going to say no?

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Apr 24 at 2015 7:47 PM

SFC Collin McMillion — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:47:57 -0400

The belief in a higher power, regardless of the name used, is transcendental, truth beyond the realm of proof.

Response by SPC(P) AnnMarie Gonzales made Apr 25 at 2015 7:36 AM

SPC(P) AnnMarie Gonzales — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:36:40 -0400

I can't say there isn't a God, because there is no way of proving it. However, the more educated I become, the more I lose faith that there is one.
I use to be a very strong believer, then I started reading facts. I honestly wish I could still have the blissful hope that there is something out there... but that's not me anymore.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 9:01 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 09:01:59 -0400

We are all Gods!

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Apr 25 at 2015 7:24 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 19:24:26 -0400

If you believe in God, your God, then YOUR God exists.

Faith in the almighty God and all that.

Be that God, Allah, Jehova, the great Thunderbird, Demeter or Artemis.
Asking for proof that God exists is akin to the early attempts to understand what wind was. They knew it was there, they could feel it and see its effects but could not understand what it was or why it did what it did.

Now, as for the opposite, well...how can I say this...God and its existence is not a matter of empirical evidence, it is a matter of subjective interpretations, faith and a set of beliefs.

Empirical data can yield a fact, that can be posed as proof that something is or is not. Whether something exists or not.

How can I prove that your preference for Vanilla ice cream is wrong? Or how can you prove that I did not see a UFO when I was 11?

Personal beliefs are just that, I don't see the value in trying to proselytize.

Cheers

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Apr 26 at 2015 12:53 AM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 00:53:57 -0400

From a military stand point. Look at how much organization, training and strategy it takes liberate a country from a oppressive leader or ideology. Yet one simple "experience of Grace" in the heart of a person can set them free from any vice they struggled with.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 2:20 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 02:20:14 -0400

I think so. For me, it's how I feel about knowing someone loves me. Sure, my wife and sister love me but that's not what I mean at all. My sister took me to church for some personal issues I was going through when my wife left on active orders. It wasn't until boot camp and MCT where I felt truly faithful. I don't know, the thought that if God wants it, it will be done. His will. His way.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 12:44 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 12:44:39 -0400

Does a benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient "God" exist? I think it's very unlikely. I believe religion and a belief in such a being is necessary to soothe the masses in a society. Faith in such a being, a protector, an overseer helps some to get by. To think there is a plan, a higher power, a reason and plan to the randomness of tragedy and death in life every day. It helps a people to get through extended periods of drought, disaster, or other long term societal trauma. The light at the end of the tunnel to ultimately help the species continue. Now do I personally believe in God? No, I think a god is a personally constructed figurative being. Every person who believes in God knows this God to be different because this being is different, tailored to the exact specifications of the persons psyche and subconscious. While I am indeed open to the belief in an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being I will not throw my faith out on a whim. I would definitely need proof for or against the existence of a god. I think to believe in a single God is to be closed-minded. There were so many civilizations in existance even before the bible was cobbled together by men. The Romans and Greeks all had variants of each other's gods, many, many gods for almost everything. The Egyptians had a great many gods and so did the Norse. Now, why would there be a belief in many hundreds of gods by many civilizations for thousands of years, then only be one? It just doesn't make sense. If you think about it, all scientific discovery ever would seem like magic or "miracles" (for you religious people reading this) to anyone not familiar with such technology. If we had the technology we have now and went back a thousand years any one of us could be hailed as a god. This is why I think that any deitys formed by ancient civilizations are much more likely based on either extraterrestrial beings or some sort of advanced ascended beings with superior technology. It just makes more sense to me than believing in sky man. Do I have proof? No way! But do I have proof that a single magical being exists and such a being created the universe and everything in it in seven days? Nope. Take from this what you will.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 1:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:11:05 -0400

I does not matter, "I" think that someone or something made us, but with the way the world is going today.... I think he loved us at one point but at THIS point I think he may have moved on. Live your life and try not to be a total ass, worst that can happen is its all crap but you wont know anyway so no harm done, at best paradise... so why not believe? good luck brother.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 26 at 2015 3:02 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 15:02:38 -0400

Just a thought, if you ever speak to an Atheist, or someone who doesn't believe and you reply back with "I'll pray for you", that's equivalent to throwing meat all over a vegetarian's salad. If you believe they will be saved and wish to pray for them, feel free to do so, but keep it to yourself.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 4:31 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 04:31:24 -0400

Faith is the best argument for God, or any Higher power.

Those that believe in a higher power just have to have faith that there are things that will always be outside of our ability to comprehend as humans.

Also, if you could point to any belief system that says that any God is omnibenevolent, because the Christian and Jewish God is obviously from both Old and New Testament a God that allows people to pay for their sins with his righteous judgment.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 7:34 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 07:34:22 -0400

God exists because I know he does. If you choose not to believe then that is your problem not mine (although I would love for a non-believer to open their mind to God's will).

Quote whomever you wish or whatever you wish but that will not change my mind or my belief because I have faith and I know the truth. If someone chooses to not believe then that is their choice and issue. Lord knows that the information is out there.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 3:35 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:35:55 -0400

Yes, God exists. Now, if you are looking for absolute, irrefutable, scientific proof that He does, you'll be looking for a long time. For one, God wants our belief in Him to be a matter of faith, the Bible points that out a number of times. For another, any undergraduate science class will tell you that science cannot prove or disprove matters of faith. What I would call "the hand of God" you may call "luck", or "coincidence." Science can no more explain the concept of coincidence than it can answer whether or not God exists.

Response by SGT Chris Hill made Apr 27 at 2015 5:46 PM

SGT Chris Hill — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:46:05 -0400

This is definitely one of those hot topics that will never cease, because there's no right or wrong answer; it's all based on personal beliefs.

I personally believe in God, I have also flucuated over my lifetime whether or not he exists, but there's no longer a doubt in my mind that he does exist.

I do not have a desire to debate with anyone about his existence, everyone has their right to their own opinions. This is merely my own opinion.

Response by 1LT Richard C. made Apr 27 at 2015 6:11 PM

1LT Richard C. — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:11:54 -0400

One of my fav's:

Christianity: The belief that some invisible cosmic Jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood, and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree to gain knowledge.

...and I still believe.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 7:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:30:56 -0400

Without a doubt he lives, loves and reigns over us! Gods love is unlike any other and if only we took the time to understand his love and grace, could so many others come to know him. I could talk forever on this topic and would be happy to expand for any who are curious to know more. God is everywhere and his love never fails!

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Apr 27 at 2015 9:11 PM

SGT Mark Sullivan — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:11:14 -0400

Raised Catholic, I am currently agnostic, I don't follow any one church. I think organized religion has translated certain texts in the bible incorrectly, and have come up with some bizarre translations. Christ surrounded himself with the poor and wretched, he did not push them away. I think all religions offer something about the existence of God. This dates back all the way to the early Christians, who were Pagans. I think God does exist, and is Omnipotent, but I feel he/she is phlegmatic. Meaning, we are given choices throughout our lives, those choices can be good or bad, and then we have to live with our choices. I believe God is the power within the Universe and if you put your prayer, wants, needs into the universe, then the universe will provide that eventually, but, this also puts meaning behind the phrase, "Be-careful what you ask for..."

Response by PO2 David Hagwood made Apr 27 at 2015 9:15 PM

PO2 David Hagwood — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:15:40 -0400

I believe God exist. No one knows all the mysteries of the universe. Scientists who have tried to disprove the existence of God only come to the conclusion that God could possibly exist. Unless you know all the mysteries of life and the universe, it would be closed-minded to deny the possibility of God's existence.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Apr 28 at 2015 1:02 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:02:32 -0400

So the question is not about the Bible ro even Christ. Simply, Can one prove that there is a God.

Simple math proves it. Let's begin.
Evolutionists would like us to believe that the universe is 13.7 billion years old. That seems preposterous to me given the information we have now but it doesn't matter. We will give them the benefit of the doubt and then hang them with it (metaphorically speaking of course).

“Most scientists speculated that the deeper they delved into the cell, the more simplicity they would find. But the opposite happened.”
–Michael Behe

The DNA molecule is VERY complex. A single strand carries the same amount of info as a volume of encyclopedia. A single celled amoeba has as much information as 1000 complete sets of Encyclopedia Britannica. These 1000 sets do not consist of random letters but letters in a very specific order.
Proteins are absolutely essential for what goes on inside the living system. Proteins perform a function in virtue of their shape; shape and function are related. Proteins do hundreds of different jobs in the cell.
 They serve as structural parts for motors
 They catalyze reactions within the cell (enzymes)
 They process information on the DNA strand
 They have a very complex 3 dimensional shape
 All functions depend on the specific shape of each protein

The naturalist/atheist responds to the origin of specified complexity in DNA by appealing to Random Chance, Natural Selection, or Chemical Affinities and Self-Ordering.

Albert L. Lehninger
Albert Lester Lehninger was born in Bridgeport, Connecticut. He received his B.A. in 1939 from Wesleyan University and his M.S. in 1940 and Ph.D. in 1942 from the University of Wisconsin. After receiving his Ph.D. in biochemistry, he held several faculty positions at the University of Wisconsin and the University of Chicago. Lehninger came to the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in 1952 as the DeLamar Professor and director of the department of physiological chemistry. He is credited with making fundamental contributions in bioenergetics, a field which deals with the way in which nutrients derived from food are oxidized and converted into a biochemically useable form. He is the author of three classic texts: Biochemistry, The Mitochondrion, and Bioenergetics.

“We now come to the critical moment in evolution in which the first semblance of ‘life’ appeared, through the chance association of a number of abiotically formed macromolecular components.”

We need to ask, “Can chance alone produce Specified Information?” The problem of assembling the genetic information in DNA has sometimes been compared to getting two lines from Shakespeare. The assumption is that given enough time, one could get “To be or not to be, that is the question” by randomly dropping scrabble letters on a table.
There is a significant problem however. This postulation assumes quite a bit. It assumes there ARE scrabble pieces. It assumes a dropping mechanism. It assumes a table. It assumes the physical and chemical components of the scrabble pieces. It assumes a mechanism for producing the scrabble pieces, the paint, the device to apply the paint, a functioning alphabet. The odds of randomly ordering the scrabble pieces are dependent upon the odds of all the preexisting conditions coming about randomly. The odds against this are staggering.

Imagine a combination lock on a briefcase with four dials. There are 4 dials and each dial has 6 choices. The objective is to line the “6’s” up at random. What are the odds? If we have 2 dials each with 6 options, we determine the possibility of achieving our objective through multiplication. Therefore 6x6=36. The chance of getting the correct solution is one chance in 36.
-If 3 dials: 6x6x6=216 (One chance in 216
-If 4 dials: 6x6x6x6=1296 (One chance in 1296)
-Possibilities grow exponentially, NOT additively
So, let’s look at the odds of getting a combination by chance assuming 4 dials with 10 digits each.
 4 dials with 10 digits = 104
 10000 possible combinations
 The odds are one chance in 10000
Now let’s assume there are 10 dials, each with 10 digits.
 10 dials with 10 digits = 1010
 10,000,000,000 possibilities
 The odds are one chance in 10 billion
Now let’s look a Amino Acid Sequencing (Protein Formation).
There are 20 protein forming amino acids. The remaining amino acids are not used in protein formation. We’ll assume just five sites.
glycine valine cystine histidine tryptophan
Since there are 20 possibilities, we have a 1/20 chance at each site.
 In 2 sites it’s 20x20=400
 In 3 sites it’s 20x20x20=8000
 In 4 sites it’s 20x20x20x20=160,000
 In 5 sites it’s 20x20x20x20x20=3,200,000
So, to get specific amino acids from among the possible amino acids at just five sites is one chance in 3.2 million.
Most proteins, even modest or “short” proteins have 100-150 amino acids; not five. An average length protein may be 300-400 amino acids in length.
Let’s now examine the odds of assembling a minimally complex protein of 150 amino acids.
 150 amino acids with 20 possible at each site = 20 to the 150th power
 Converted to base 10 there are 10 to the 195th power possibilities
As it turns out, functional sequences of amino acids are EXTREMELY rare. Doug Axe (Ph.D, Cal. Tech) asks a critical question. “How common (or rare) are functional sequences (ie: proteins) among all the possible combinations of amino acids?” In other words, for every protein that forms a function, how many combinations of amino acids are there?
For a series of 150 amino acids:
 Functional folds of a given length = 1
 Number of sequences of a given length = 10 to the 74th power
 So, just to get the amino acid sequence is one chance in 10 to the 74th power
Something else is also required. Only Peptide Bonds hold the amino acids together. Non-peptide bonds CANNOT form proteins. About half of the bonds are not peptide bonds. So at each site we have a 1/2 chance.
To form a protein 150 amino acids long, you’ve got a ½ chance of forming a peptide bond at each site (actually it would be 149 sites but we will round up to 150 for teaching purposes).
 ½ x ½ x ½ x…=1/2 to the 150th power = 1/10 to the 45th power
 So the odds are one chance in 10 to the 45th power
We are not done. We also need the correct Optical Isomers. Amino acids come in left and right handed versions. The left handed version is the only one that can be used in building proteins. Just ONE right handed amino acid and the protein won’t fold properly.
 So again, this is ½ at each of the 149 sites (again, rounded up to 150) which again is a probability of 10 t the 45th power
 So one chance in 10 to the 45th power of getting the correct Optical Isomers at 150 (149) sites
So, the odds of getting a functioning protein of 150 amino acids are:
 10 to the 74th power x 10 to the 45th power x 10 to the 45th power = 1/10 to the 164th
 The chance of finding a functional protein BY CHANCE is one chance in 10 to the 164th power!
Keep in mind that all this time, we’ve been talking about ONE protein. It is estimated that between 250 & 400 proteins are needed to form a minimally complex single celled organism. Humans have approximately 100 trillion cells and many different cell types. Every cell is comprised of hundreds of different kinds of proteins doing hundreds of different jobs. Going on, there is approximately 6 feet of DNA in each human cell. There are approximately 100 trillion cells in the human body. Therefore, there’s roughly 600 trillion feet of DNA in a human body.
Now we have a BIG problem. If we have 13.7 billion years with which to work, do we have enough resources in the universe to overcome the odds? In other words, can we explore all the possibilities?

Probabilistic Resources of the Universe…
 Elementary Particles = 10 to the 80th power
 Seconds since the Big Bang = 10 to the 16th power
 Maximum number of interactions between elementary particles = 10 to the 43rd
 10 to the 80th x 10 to the 16th x 10 to the 43rd = 10 to the 139th power.

So the odds of randomly assembling a minimally complex protein are one in 10 to the 164th power. However, the probabilistic resources available in a 13.7 billion year old universe are only 10 to the 139th. This means that if every event from the dawn of time were devoted to trying to find even a single protein comprised of 150 amino acids there is not enough time to search all the possibilities. This assumes a mechanism that every option would only be explored once and would never be repeated. And what are the odds of that happening?

Chance is not a good hypothesis. When you have a highly improbable event, which also performs a function, then chance is very unlikely. Scientists are increasingly skeptical that the chance hypothesis is going to accomplish the task. According to Stephen Meyer, no serious scientist thinks that life began by chance. It’s ALWAYS going to be more probable that it DIDN’T happen by chance then that it did. It’s time to look at other options.

Let’s assume that I am walking home from work. I accidentally fall into a 12 foot hole and cannot climb out. Suddenly, I remember that I have a 15-foot extension ladder at home! I run home, get the ladder, and climb out of the hole.
This begs the question; how did I get out of the hole to go get the ladder?
Begging the Question
An argument is circular if its conclusion is among its premises, if it assumes (either explicitly or not) what it is trying to prove. Such arguments are said to “beg the question.”
Natural Selection
 The process by which forms of life having traits that better enable them to adapt to specific environmental pressures, as predators, changes in climate, or competition for food or mates, will tend to survive and reproduce in greater numbers than others of their kind, thus ensuring the perpetuation of those favorable traits in succeeding generations
 It is an UNDIRECTED mechanism that can mimic the powers of a designing intelligence
Prebiotic Natural Selection
This theory posits that this process began BEFORE life arose. There is an insurmountable problem with this theory.
 Natural Selection depends on differential reproduction.
 Natural Selection presupposes organisms that can copy themselves.
 The reproduction depends on information rich DNA and functional proteins.
 One cannot get Natural Selection going; one can’t get information; unless one already has information.
Christian René de Duve
Belgian cytologist and biochemist Christian de Duve was awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine in 1974, for his research into subcellular biology. He discovered lysosomes (the cell's digestive system) and peroxisomes (organelles where crucial metabolic processes take place), and shared his Nobel honors with Albert Claude and George E. Palade. He was born to refugee parents in England, but his family returned to Antwerp while he was still a child. A naturalized citizen of Belgium and promoted to Viscount by the Belgian king in 1989.
Medical School: MD, University of Louvain (1941)
University: MS Chemistry, University of Louvain (1946)
Professor: Biochemistry, University of Louvain (1947-85)
Professor: Biochemical Cytology, Rockefeller University (1962-88)
Administrator: International Institute of Cellular and Molecular Pathology (1974-91)
Nobel Prize for Medicine 1974 (with Albert Claude and George E. Palade)
Pontifical Academy of Sciences
Author of books: The Lysosome (1963) Lysosomes in Biology and Pathology (1975, with Roger Thornton Dean and J T Dingle) Cellular and Molecular Biology of the Pathological State (1979) A Guided Tour of the Living Cell (1984, with Neil O Hardy) Blueprint for a Cell: The Nature and Origin of Life (1991) Vital Dust: Life As a Cosmic Imperative (1996)

Constraints on the Origin and Evolution of Life (1998) Life Evolving: Molecules, Mind, and Meaning (2002) Singularities: Landmarks on the Pathways of Life (2005) The Origin of Life (2006, video)
Theories of prebiotic natural selection “need information which implies they have to presuppose what is to be explained in the first place.”
Dean Kenyon
Professor Emeritus of Biology at San Francisco State University. He received his Ph.D. in Biophysics from Stanford University. He was a National Science Foundation Postdoctoral Fellow in Chemical Biodynamics at the University of California at Berkeley, a Research Associate at NASA-Ames Research Center, and a Visiting Scholar at Trinity College, Oxford University. Prof. Kenyon coauthored which is one of the leading “Biochemical Predestination” monographs on the origin of life, and “Of Pandas and People: The Central Question of Biological Origins.” He contributed chapters to the Festschrift volumes for origin-of-life researchers A. I. Oparin and Sidney W. Fox, and has published papers on chemical evolution, protocell models, and the RNA-world hypothesis. Dr. Kenyon's current research interests focus on linguistic, statistical, and visual imaging analysis of coding and non-coding DNA sequences.
Dean Kenyon Proposed Self Organization
 Example – Salt. A alternating sequence of NA & CL
 1985 – He rejected his own idea
o He came to realize that the critical question was not the origin of proteins but rather the origin of information in DNA
o Self-Organization couldn’t explain the arrangement of
characters in the DNA digital code
o Example – Magnetic Letters
 Magnetic force (force of attraction) cannot explain the functional organization of the
letters to communicate a message
 The same is true of DNA
 Information is attached to the backbone of the DNA strand but there’s no force of
attraction between the letters (bases)

Michael Polanyi
“As the arrangement of a printed page is extraneous to the chemistry of the printed page, so is the base sequence in a DNA molecule extraneous to the chemical forces at work in the DNA molecule.”
Life Transcending Physics and Chemistry

Undirected processes do not produce large amounts of specified complexity – information – starting from chemical processes. There is no naturalistic explanation for the origin of the information one needs to build the first life. Since this is the case, maybe we’re looking at something that appears to be designed because it really is designed.

In conclusion, there simply isn't enough time in the universe for anything to have created itself. It had to be designed. If there is a design, then there is a designer. No other species besides man has decided that it needs to worship something bigger than itself. If somebody went through the trouble of designing all of this, then they must have had a reason. If we were designed, and we have the capacity to wonder why, then there is a reason and the creator created us with the capacity to know this reason. WE were made to worship Him. We were given the power of choice because choice is the foundation of worship.

Response by Cpl Carlos Olvera made Apr 28 at 2015 10:00 PM

Cpl Carlos Olvera — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 22:00:12 -0400

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 2:49 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:49:22 -0400

Watch the movie "God Is Not Dead". The student puts it perfect context that there is a one and true God.

Response by LTC Fred Wiske made Apr 29 at 2015 7:19 PM

LTC Fred Wiske — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:19:56 -0400

i think the best arguments are those the Bible itself uses: 1) the argument from design (Rom. 1:19-20) and 2) evidential arguments (the Bible speaks of witnesses of the Resurrection and other miracles, and then the evidence of the historicity, accuracy and archaeological evidence which makes the Bible the most verified ancient document of all time. I make those choice on the basis of my own experience, the Word of God and my background as an evidential apologist.

Response by LCpl Rosalie Young made Apr 29 at 2015 9:34 PM

LCpl Rosalie Young — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:34:12 -0400

My mantra in early recovery: There is a God, and I'm not it!

Response by LCpl Rosalie Young made Apr 29 at 2015 9:34 PM

LCpl Rosalie Young — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:34:58 -0400

My mantra in early recovery: There is a God, and I'm not it!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 9:04 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:04:43 -0400

Gods greatest gift was freedom, for love can only be obtained from the freedom to decide what to believe. God doesnt force his will on us but rather lets us choose the path we walk and hopes we choose the path that leads to him. All objections to god are based upon a lack of proof in the scientific sense but this argument is nullified by the fact god values freedom above all else and if this is true why would there be involvement or proof that is easily apparent?

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Apr 30 at 2015 12:58 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:58:40 -0400

The Big Bang Cosmology

COSMOLOGY
“SOMETHING MUST BE THE THING FROM WHICH EVERYTHING ELSE COMES.”
DR. STEPHEN MEYER

Bertrand Arthur William Russell (b.1872 – d.1970) was a British philosopher, logician, essayist and social critic best known for his work in mathematical logic and analytic philosophy. His most influential contributions include his defense of logicism (the view that mathematics is in some important sense reducible to logic), his refining of the predicate calculus introduced by Gottlob Frege (which still forms the basis of most contemporary logic), his defense of neutral monism (the view that the world consists of just one type of substance that is neither exclusively mental nor exclusively physical), and his theories of definite descriptions and logical atomism. Along with G.E. Moore, Russell is generally recognized as one of the founders of modern analytic philosophy. Along with Kurt Gödel, he is regularly credited with being one of the most important logicians of the twentieth century. Over the course of his long career, Russell made significant contributions, not just to logic and philosophy, but to a broad range of subjects including education, history, political theory and religious studies. In addition, many of his writings on a variety of topics in both the sciences and the humanities have influenced generations of general readers. After a life marked by controversy—including dismissals from both Trinity College, Cambridge, and City College, New York—Russell was awarded the Order of Merit in 1949 and the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1950. Noted for his many spirited anti-war and anti-nuclear protests, Russell remained a prominent public figure until his death at the age of 97.
In an interview with Ben Stein, atheist Richard Dawkins was asked what he would you do if he met God after he died?”
Dawkins replied:
“Bertrand Russell had that point put to him and he said something like, ‘Sir,why did you take such pains to hide yourself?’”
Contrary to popular arguments, God has not “hidden himself.” In fact, God seems to have gone out of His way in order TO reveal Himself. There four primary ways in which He has done so.

1. General Revelation (Creation)
2. Special Revelation (Scripture/The Bible)
3. Physical Revelation (Jesus Christ)
4. Spiritual Revelation (The Holy Spirit)
If it is the case that God HAS revealed Himself in creation (or through creation) then we do not NEED to use the other three revelations to prove beyond reasonable doubt that an external Agency (defined by the same characteristics as God) actually exists.

WHAT DO YOU ALREADY KNOW?
Loosely stated, there are two primary competing theories surrounding the cause of the universe.
 Naturalism (Matter is Prime Reality)
 Intelligent Design (An External Agency is Prime Reality)
Contemporary cosmologists, astrophysicists, and astronomers generally accept a “Big Bang” as the moment that the universe “exploded” into existence. Many Christians are uncomfortable accepting the idea of a Big Bang as they view it as an idea that is in direct competition with Biblical Revelation.
In this session, we will explore whether or not there is evidence to prove the so called “Big Bang.” We will also explore whether or not Christians can, or should, accept the idea.

The “New Atheism”?
New atheists assert that there’s no positive evidence for God’s existence and that it’s much more likely there’s no god at all. This sounds like the same old atheism. It is. What is different about New Atheism is that it is very hostile in its approach.
From “newatheists.org”
“[‘New’ Atheism espouses] Intolerance of ignorance, myth and superstition; disregard for the tolerance of religion; indoctrination of logic, reason and the advancement of a naturalistic worldview.”
“Tolerance of pervasive myth and superstition in modern society is not a virtue. Religious fundamentalism has gone main stream and its toll on education, science, and social progress is disheartening. Wake up people!! We are smart enough now to kill our invisible gods and oppressive beliefs. It is the responsibility of the educated to educate the uneducated, lest we fall prey to the tyranny of ignorance.”

Christopher Hitchens (Late)
Christopher Eric Hitchens (born April 13, 1949) was a British-American author, journalist, and literary critic. He was a columnist at Vanity Fair, The Atlantic, The Nation, Slate, and Free Inquiry. Hitchens is known for his atheism and anti-theism and was a firm believer in the Enlightenment values of secularism, humanism, and reason. Hitchens became a United States citizen on his 58th birthday, April 13, 2007. He passed from complications of esophageal cancer on Dec. 15, 2011
Richard Dawkins
Clinton Richard Dawkins (March 26, 1941), is a British zoologist, born in Nairobi, in Kenya. He is currently Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford, and is one of the most prominent biologists alive today. He is an ardent and outspoken atheist, Honorary Associate of the National Secular Society and Vice-President of the British Humanist Association. In his essay "Viruses of the Mind", he interprets religions using the memetics theory.
Sam Harris
Sam Harris is the author of the bestselling books The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, The Moral Landscape, Free Will, Lying, and Waking Up. The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction. His writing and public lectures cover a wide range of topics—neuroscience, moral philosophy, religion, spirituality, violence, human reasoning—but generally focus on how a growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.
Daniel C. Dennett
Daniel Clement Dennett (born March 28, 1942, in Boston, Massachusetts) is one of the leading academic writers and activists engaged in promoting scientific atheism. His field is the philosophy of mind, of science, and of biology in particularly. Dennett joins Dawkins, too, in shrugging off the efforts of other Darwinian activists who wish to give the public the impression that Darwinism may be reconciled with traditional ideas of religious faith. In an article in the London Guardian (April 4, 2006), he singles out Eugenie Scott, direct of the National Center for Science Education, and philosopher Michael Ruse.
Dennett criticizes the two for “favor[ing] the tactic of insisting that evolution biology doesn’t deny the existence of a divine creator” and for their alleged “evasiveness” on this point. Following major, life-threatening open-heart surgery in 2006, Dennett wrote an essay assuring readers he had no near-death conversion to theistic belief but that, instead, he had enjoyed a renewed appreciation for “Goodness.” Instead of “Thank God,” he urged thoughtful and enlightened people like himself to say “Thank Goodness!”

Cosmology
“A branch of astronomy that deals with the origin, structure, and space-time relationships of the universe” Miriam-Webster
The origin of the universe is controversial due to the existential implications. If the universe has a natural cause, then there may be no evidence for a transcendent Being. However, if the universe has a beginning from absolutely nothing, it necessarily implies a cause that is external to our universe; an intelligent cause; one to which we may have to answer.

John Ray (1627-1705) John Ray was a highly influential English naturalist and botanist whose contributions to taxonomy are considered groundbreaking and historic. He is also well-known in the world of botany for the establishment of species as the ultimate unit of taxonomy.
Johannes Kepler(1571-1630) Johannes Kepler is one name that will always be remembered in the field of astronomy. He was the chief founder of contemporary astronomy and also a great mathematician and astrologer. The German astronomer was the first person to explain planetary motion. His three laws on planetary motion were codified by later astronomers based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of Copernican Astronomy. They also served as the basis for Isaac Newton’s theory of universal gravitation. Moreover his publication Stereometrica Doliorum formed the foundation of integral calculus, and he also made imperative advances in geometry.
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) Among his many discoveries, Galileo discovered the first moons ever known to orbit a planet other than Earth, discovering Jupiter’s four largest moons: Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto. Together these moons are now called the Galilean Satellites in his honor. Galileo lived at a crucial crossroads in the history of science when different strands of thought met and clashed. These were: natural philosophy based on Aristotle’s incorrect ideas; the beliefs of the Catholic Church at the time; & evidence-based scientific research. In the end, the ideas of Galileo and other scientists triumphed, because they were able to prove them to be true. Although his ideas triumphed, Galileo paid a high price for his science: he spent the last eight years of his life under house arrest, and the Catholic Church banned the publication of anything written by him.
Issac Newton (1642-1727) Isaac Newton, universally considered to be one of the greatest and most influential scientists of all time, was an English mathematical and physicist, widely known for his outstanding contributions to physics, mathematics and optics. He also invented the calculus, and formulated the three laws of motion and the universal theory of gravitation. Newton proved that sunlight is the combination of several colors. He performed as the master of the Royal Mint in London and as the president of the Royal Society of London.
Robert Boyle (1627-1691) Robert Boyle was an Anglo-Irish natural philosopher, scientist and theological writer. As one of the early pioneers of modern experimental scientific method, Boyle’s contributions ranged over a number of subjects, including chemistry, physics, medicine, hydrostatics, natural history and earth sciences.

Many of the “Fathers” of modern science were Christians or at least believed in an itelligent designer. While these scientists are often misrepresented, it was their belief in an external Being that drove them to do their research in many cases. The latter all believed:
 Creation is intelligible because it was the product of a rational mind.
 God made the world to be orderly
 Because our minds were made in the image of the same rational mind that made the world, we can understand it as well
“The Copernican Principle”
AKA the Principle of Mediocrity
We should assume there’s nothing special about our situation, our location in the universe, the particular features of the Earth, the solar system, or humans themselves - Stephen Meyer
Copernicus’ discovery - the sun doesn’t revolve around the Earth, but the Earth revolves around the sun - supposedly “demoted” humankind physically & philosophically. Supposedly, prior to Copernicus, the ancients believed that mankind was at the center of the universe. However, that presupposition is false. Ptolemy, Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler, and Dante did NOT believe that man was the center of the universe.
Philosophically, Dante believed that Earth was an intermediate place. Aristotle believed:
 The earth (being the heaviest element) was at the bottom
 Earth was the place where things decayed and died
 Everything above the moon was quintessence …God dwelled in the heavenly sphere and man was in an intermediate place
Dante inverted the levels as you go the other way to hell; 9 levels up to God and 9 levels down to Hell.
The physical position of our planet in the universe has no bearing on our existential importance as human beings. However, our physical position does allude to our importance due to the fine tuning parameters involved to allow life on earth. We will cover that in a later session.
Challenge Accepted
Stephen Meyer was called before Congress to testify on bias against Intelligent Design. One of the Representatives asked Meyer if it was true that many of the early scientists believed in Intelligent Design. Meyer responded affirmatively and pointed to Newton as one example. An opposing witness claimed that while Newton was personally religious, Newton never included “God” in his science. However Meyer had just completed research on Newton and happened to have that research with him.

The General Scholium to Isaac Newton's Principia Mathematica
“Though these bodies may indeed continue in their orbits by the mere laws of gravity yet they could by no means have at first derived the regular position of their orbits themselves from those laws. Thus this most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the council and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.”
Newton was explaining that while gravity explains why things hold together, it does NOT explain how they were placed. Newton’s conclusion was that they were placed by an “intelligent and powerful Being.” (Newton capitalized “Being.”)

TAKING GOD OUT
Pierre Laplace (1802)
The French mathematician and astronomer, Pierre-Simon Laplace, published his five-volume work Mécanique Céleste (Celestial Mechanics) between 1799 and 1827. Laplace based much of his work upon Newton’s discoveries and relied heavily on Newton’s recent invention of calculus. However, in stark contrast to Newton's view on the subject, Laplace explained the origin of the Solar System by reference to the Law of Gravity alone with no design. Purportedly, when Napoleon read Mécanique Céleste, he summoned Laplace. Laplace told Napoleon “Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis.” (That is, “The God Hypothesis”)

The attitude that a “God Hypothesis” is unnecessary continues to be held today. For example, Douglas Futuyma (Evolutionary Biologist) stated,
“By coupling the undirected, purposeless variations to the blind uncaring process of natural selection, Darwin made the theological or spiritual explanations of the life processes superfluous.”
On September 2, 2010, Stephen Hawking published his book, “The Grand Design.” In it, Hawking wrote,
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist...It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

There is a problem with Hawking’s position. “The Law of Gravity” and all other physical laws of nature are merely descriptions of interactions of material parts within the universe including its space-time configuration. If we were to go back to a point before the universe itself existed, there would be no natural laws and therefore, they have no ability to create anything at all.

At the time of Laplace and Darwin scientists believed that the universe was infinite in time and space. They believed that there were material causes all the way back with no beginning point. In fact, the assumption ever since the ancient Greeks had been that the material world is eternal. (Epicurus). There were contrary views, including Christianity. Christians had denied this on the basis of biblical revelation. Western secular science always assumed the universe’s eternality.
The Materialists’ View of the Universe
 Eternal
 Self-existent
 Self-creating
 Self-organizing
 Autonomous from any outside forces – No design, no purpose, no god

The Materialists’ Argument…
What caused human life?
(evolved from lower animals)
Where did they come from?
(still lower animals)
Where did they come from?
(amoeba or single-celled organisms)
Where did that come from?
(simpler chemicals)
Where did they come from?
(elementary particles)
Where did they come from?
(They were there all the time)

A popular argument;
“From eternity past were the particles and the particles became complex living stuff. And the living stuff became aware and the living stuff conceived of god.” WHAT’S THE BIGGER IDEA
There are two problems with a “Static State” theory of the universe.
 Mathematical Evidence
 Scientific (Empirical) Evidence

An actual infinite number of things creates absurdities. For example, let’s assume that I have an infinite number of marbles. Let’s further assume that I want to give you an infinite number of marbles. One way I could do that would be to give you ALL of my marbles. You would then have an infinite number of marbles and I would be left with zero marbles. In this case, Infinity (I) – Infinity (I) = 0. However, there are other ways that I could give you an infinite number of marbles.
Assume that all of my marbles are numbered “one” through infinity. If I gave you all of the ODD numbered marbles, I would be left with all of the EVEN numbered marbles. In this case, we would both have an infinite number of marbles. In this scenario, (I) – (I) = (I). There is yet another way to give you an infinite number of marbles. I could give you all of my marbles that are numbered “four” and above. In this case, you would have an infinite number of marbles, and I would be left with three marbles. In this scenario, (I) – (I) = 3. Carried a bit further, there are an infinite number of possibilities depending on the numbered marble with which I begin. Within Transfinite Arithmetic, there are an infinite number of solutions to the problem of “Infinity – Infinity = X”
Assume from the example above that I still have an infinite number of marbles. Assume that I have one marble numbered “zero.” The remaining marbles are split evenly and half are numbered “one” through infinity while the other half are numbered “negative one” through infinity (see below).
…,-15, -14, -13, -12, -11, -10, -9, -8, -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, …
Now, I want you to count ALL the negative marbles until you get to “zero” (ALL of the negative marbles - not just the ones on this page). You can’t do it; no one can. There’s no point at which to begin. There are always more negative marbles. One can NEVER arrive at the “zero” marble. Now, let us replace the “marbles” with “events.” Instead of a “zero marble” we now have a point on the timeline marked “the present.” In this scenario, one can NEVER arrive at “the present” because one can never advance through ALL of the “past events” to arrive at the present. Mathematically speaking, the universe cannot be infinite in the past because one could not arrive at the present. An infinite past is mathematically impossible. It is “impossible to traverse the infinite.”

 Premise 1 – Whatever begins to exist has a
cause
 Premise 2 – The universe began to exist
 Premise 3 – Therefore, the universe has a
cause
Premise 1: “Everything that has a beginning has a cause.”
This principle is known as The Law of Causality. It is foundational to the scientific method. If it were not true, then scientific endeavors would prove pointless.
Premise 2: “The universe began to exist”
There is now ample evidence that the universe had a beginning. That evidence has been organized into an acronym by Frank Turek.

To deny the Law of Causality is to deny rationality -
It’s “self-defeating”
Rational thinking requires thoughts (causes) that result in conclusions (effects).
If someone ever denies this law, simply ask,
“What caused you to come to that conclusion?”

“In the beginning there was a great ‘SURGE’”
Turek
SURGE
Second Law of Thermodynamics
Universal Expansion
Radiation from the Big Bang
Great Galaxy Seeds
Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity

Second Law of Thermodynamics
 First Law states that the actual amount of energy in the universe remains constant
 Second Law says the amount of usable energy in any closed system (which the whole universe is) is decreasing. It is also known as the Law of Entropy
Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist – Britain -1882-1944)
“…if your theory is found to be against the Second Law of Thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation.”

If the universe was eternally existent in the past, then we would expect that our sun would have burned out at some point in the infinite past. In fact, all stars in the universe would have all burned out at some point in the infinite past. Our universe would have already experienced “heat death.” The beginning of the universe, and the origin of all its usable energy, must be a finite point in the past.

Universal Expansion
The universe is expanding. Below are the series of mathematical and empirical discoveries the prove this to be the case.
 1915 – Einstein’s Theory of Relativity (Shows that as one travels backward in time, gravity causes space time to curve in upon itself resulting in a smaller universe in the past. In fact, it demands an absolute beginning to the universe from nothing.)
 1920’s – Alexander Friedman and George Lemaitre developed models based on Einstein’s theory. Their research showed that the universe should be expanding in the present.
 1929 – Edwin Hubble discovered a “red shift” in
light coming from galaxies outside our own. Galaxies
are moving away from each other. He viewed the
expanding universe.
1940’s – George Gamow predicted that if all
time, space, and matter came into existence at a finite
point in the past, then there should be a background
temperature of the universe just a few degrees (2.7)
above absolute zero.
 1965 - Parno Penzias and Robert Wilson,
accidentally discovered the universe’s background
radiation just 2.7 degrees above absolute zero.
If the universe is expanding in the present, it means that as we move backward in time, the universe contracts. If one goes back far enough everything must compress to a zero point; a point of zero special volume with zero matter and zero time. This implies the need for a cause beyond the universe itself.

Hubble was observing galaxies moving away from us and other galaxies. The further away the galaxy, the faster it was receding.
Red Shift = Doppler Shift
As objects move away, the wavelength of light stretches out. (The light moves to the red end of the spectrum. The opposite end of the spectrum is blue.)

Radiation from Big Bang
The background radiation of the universe is 2.7 degrees above absolute zero. This radiation is light and heat from the initial explosion.

Robert Jastrow (1925-2008)
Former Member of the National Space Society Board of Governors
Robert Jastrow was Director and Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Mount Wilson Institute, which manages Mount Wilson Observatory in California on behalf of the Carnegie Institution of Washington. Dr. Jastrow was a member of the NASA Alumni Association. Dr. Jastrow received his A.B., M.A. and Ph.D. degrees in theoretical physics from Columbia University. He joined NASA when it was formed in 1958 and was a prominent figure in the American space program from its inception. Dr. Jastrow was the first chairman of NASA’s Lunar Exploration Committee, which established the scientific goals for the exploration of the Moon during the Apollo lunar landings. In 1961, Dr. Jastrow set up NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, a U.S. Government laboratory charged with carrying out research in astronomy and planetary science. He served as director of the Goddard Institute until his retirement from NASA in 1981. In recognition of his work in NASA, Dr. Jastrow received the NASA Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement and the Arthur S. Fleming Award for Outstanding Service in the U.S. Government. He also received the Columbia University Medal of Excellence, the Columbia Graduate Facilities Award to Distinguished Alumni and Doctor of Science degree (honorary) from Manhattan College. Dr. Jastrow hosted more than 100 CBS-TV network programs on space science. In 1981, Dr. Jastrow left NASA to join the facility of Dartmouth College as Professor of Earth Sciences. He resigned from Dartmouth in 1992 to take up duties as manager of Mount Wilson Observatory. On February 8, 2008, Dr. Jastrow died of pneumonia.

Robert Jastrow, an agnostic astronomer, wrote in 1978,
“…the radiation discovered…was exactly the pattern of wavelengths expected for the light and heat produced in a great explosion. Supporters of the steady state theory have tried desperately to find an alternative explanation, but they have failed…The Big Bang theory has no competitors.”

Great Galaxy Seeds
If the Big Bang actually occurred, we should see slight variations (ripples) in the temperature of the background radiation. These temperature ripples would have enabled matter to congregate by gravitational attraction into galaxies.
In 1989, the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) was deployed. Upon viewing the data/images, Project leader George Smoot said, “If you’re religious, it’s like looking at God.”
COBE showed that the explosion & expansion was precisely tweaked to cause just enough matter to congregate to allow galaxy formation, but not enough to cause the universe to collapse back in on itself. Smoot called the variations the “machining marks from the creation of the universe” and the “finger prints of the maker.”

Einstein’s Theory of Relativity
Einstein’s Theory is verified to 17 decimal places (in all but the Planck realm). The theory demands an absolute beginning for time, space, and matter. It shows that they are co-relative; that is they are interdependent- you cannot have one without the others and all must have the same beginning point.
Einstein’s theory dealt with the law of gravity. It shows that a massive body will curve space around the body; space contracts.
If we were in a universe with no spatial volume, and gravity was the only thing at work, everything would contract and compress in on itself. Einstein’s equations implied that the force of expansion was a little stronger than the force of gravity.
Einstein was not a little disturbed by his theory. He was a believer in the steady state and the implications of his theory called that belief into question. Einstein decided to add his “Cosmological Constant.”
Einstein’s Cosmological Constant
“It was a numeric value that described, not a force of expansion, but a contrary force of contraction that was calibrated just right so that the expanding force and the contracting force were in perfect balance so that we had a static universe again. So it was just sitting here from eternity past doing nothing, not expanding, not contracting, just sitting there.” –Meyer
The problem with his constant is that he had to divide by zero to achieve it! Einstein later said that it was the worst mistake of his career; that he should have just followed the evidence where it led.

The Kalam Argument says that if the first two premises are true, then it’s necessary to conclude the third. There is no other reasonable conclusion.
Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist – Britain -1882-1944)
“Philosophically the notion of a beginning of the present order is repugnant to me. I should like to find a genuine loophole. I simply do not believe the present order of thing started off with a bang…the expanding universe is preposterous…it leaves me cold.”

Note that Eddington gives no evidence. There is no logical reasoning in his objection. He doesn’t he like the expanding universe because he has a personal philosophy (a presupposition) that says you can’t have a finite universe.
Robert Dicke (1916-1997)
An American, Dicke received his PhD in 1941 and worked on radar during World War II at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He spent the rest of his career at Princeton. In the early 1960s he and his student James Peebles independently repeated George Gamow's prediction of a cosmic background radiation, and almost immediately afterward correctly interpreted Arno Penzias's and Robert Wilson's discovery of the cosmic background radiation. Later Dicke and Peebles drew attention of astronomers to a problem concerning the density of matter in the universe, called the flatness problem. A lecture by Dicke inspired Alan Guth to develop the inflationary model of the universe.
Robert Dicke
“An infinitely old universe would relieve us of the necessity of understanding the origin of matter at any finite time in the past” Princeton, 1965
Fast forward to 2010…
Newatheists.org
This is meant to be an attack on theism…

“Irrational Beliefs Not Delusional? (they ask)
An excerpt from the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders states: Delusions are irrational beliefs, held with a high level of conviction, that are highly resistant to change even when the delusional person is exposed to forms of proof that contradict the belief...Also, for beliefs to be considered delusional, the content or themes of the beliefs must be uncommon in the person's culture or religion.
So it's OK to have irrational beliefs as long as everyone in your group does too”!? (Ending punctuation assumed and added by me)

In light of current discoveries in cosmology, it seems this applies more so to those who continue to insist on material causes for the origin of the universe.
Allen Sandage – Astronomer
“Here is evidence for what can only be described as a supernatural event. There is no way that this could have been predicted with the realm of physics as we know it.”

The “Big Bang” is NOT a cause. It is the very first effect. The Big Bang does not cause any problems for Theism. In fact, it is evidence for the existence of an intelligent designer; it is evidence for the existence of God. When it was first discovered, the materialists were running for alternatives; not theists.
Robert Jastrow (Agnostic, founder of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, author of “God and the Astronomers”)
“This is an exceedingly strange development, unexpected by all but the theologians. They have always accepted the word of the Bible: In the beginning God created heaven and earth. It is unexpected because science has had such extraordinary success in tracing the chain of cause and effect backward in time. For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

WHAT IS THE PLANK REALM?
Quantum theory evolved as a new branch of theoretical physics during the first few decades of the 20th century in an endeavor to understand the fundamental properties of matter. It began with the study of the interactions of matter and radiation. Certain radiation effects could neither be explained by classical mechanics, nor by the theory of electromagnetism. In particular, physicists were puzzled by the nature of light. Peculiar lines in the spectrum of sunlight had been discovered earlier by Joseph von Fraunhofer (1787-1826). These spectral lines were then systematically catalogued for various substances, yet nobody could explain why the spectral lines are there and why they would differ for each substance. It took about one hundred years, until a plausible explanation was supplied by quantum theory.
Quantum theory is about the nature of matter.

In contrast to Einstein's Relativity, which is about the largest things in the universe, quantum theory deals with the tiniest things we know, the particles that atoms are made of, which we call "subatomic" particles. In contrast to Relativity, quantum theory was not the work of one individual, but the collaborative effort of some of the most brilliant physicists of the 20th century, among them Niels Bohr, Erwin Schrödinger, Wolfgang Pauli, and Max Born. Two names clearly stand out: Max Planck (1858-1947) and Werner Heisenberg (1901-1976). Planck is recognized as the originator of the quantum theory, while Heisenberg formulated one of the most eminent laws of quantum theory, the Uncertainty Principle, which is occasionally also referred to as the principle of indeterminacy.

The Uncertainty Principle
Quantum mechanics is generally regarded as the physical theory that is our best candidate for a fundamental and universal description of the physical world. The conceptual framework employed by this theory differs drastically from that of classical physics. Indeed, the transition from classical to quantum physics marks a genuine revolution in our understanding of the physical world.

One striking aspect of the difference between classical and quantum physics is that whereas classical mechanics presupposes that exact simultaneous values can be assigned to all physical quantities, quantum mechanics denies this possibility, the prime example being the position and momentum of a particle. According to quantum mechanics, the more precisely the position (momentum) of a particle is given, the less precisely can one say what its momentum (position) is. This is (a simplistic and preliminary formulation of) the quantum mechanical uncertainty principle for position and momentum. The uncertainty principle played an important role in many discussions on the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics, in particular in discussions on the consistency of the so-called Copenhagen interpretation, the interpretation endorsed by the founding fathers Heisenberg and Bohr.

This should not suggest that the uncertainty principle is the only aspect of the conceptual difference between classical and quantum physics: the implications of quantum mechanics for notions as (non)-locality, entanglement and identity play no less havoc with classical intuitions.
The uncertainty principle is certainly one of the most famous and important aspects of quantum mechanics. It has often been regarded as the most distinctive feature in which quantum mechanics differs from classical theories of the physical world. Roughly speaking, the uncertainty principle (for position and momentum) states that one cannot assign exact simultaneous values to the position and momentum of a physical system. Rather, these quantities can only be determined with some characteristic ‘uncertainties’ that cannot become arbitrarily small simultaneously. But what is the exact meaning of this principle, and indeed, is it really a principle of quantum mechanics? (In his original work, Heisenberg only speaks of uncertainty relations.) And, in particular, what does it mean to say that a quantity is determined only up to some uncertainty? These are the main questions we will explore in the following, focusing on the views of Heisenberg and Bohr.

The notion of ‘uncertainty’ occurs in several different meanings in the physical literature. It may refer to a lack of knowledge of a quantity by an observer, or to the experimental inaccuracy with which a quantity is measured, or to some ambiguity in the definition of a quantity, or to a statistical spread in an ensemble of similarly prepared systems. Also, several different names are used for such uncertainties: inaccuracy, spread, imprecision, indefiniteness, indeterminateness, indeterminacy, latitude, etc. As we shall see, even Heisenberg and Bohr did not decide on a single terminology for quantum mechanical uncertainties. Forestalling a discussion about which name is the most appropriate one in quantum mechanics, we use the name ‘uncertainty principle’ imply because it is the most common one in the literature.

Theory of Relativity - A Brief History and Factual Implications
The Theory of Relativity, proposed by the Jewish physicist Albert Einstein (1879-1955) in the early part of the 20th century, is one of the most significant scientific advances of our time. Although the concept of relativity was not introduced by Einstein, his major contribution was the recognition that the speed of light in a vacuum is constant and an absolute physical boundary for motion. This does not have a major impact on a person's day-to-day life since we travel at speeds much slower than light speed. For objects travelling near light speed, however, the theory of relativity states that objects will move slower and shorten in length from the point of view of an observer on Earth. Einstein also derived the famous equation, E = mc2, which reveals the equivalence of mass and energy. When Einstein applied his theory to gravitational fields, he derived the "curved space-time continuum" which depicts the dimensions of space and time as a two-dimensional surface where massive objects create valleys and dips in the surface. This aspect of relativity explained the phenomena of light bending around the sun, predicted black holes as well as the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMB) -- a discovery rendering fundamental anomalies in the classic Steady-State hypothesis.

For his work on relativity, the photoelectric effect and blackbody radiation, Einstein received the Nobel Prize in 1921.
Theory of Relativity – The Basics
Physicists usually dichotomize the Theory of Relativity into two parts. The first is the Special Theory of Relativity, which essentially deals with the question of whether rest and motion are relative or absolute, and with the consequences of Einstein’s conjecture that they are relative. The second is the General Theory of Relativity, which primarily applies to particles as they accelerate, particularly due to gravitation, and acts as a radical revision of Newton’s theory, predicting important new results for fast-moving and/or very massive bodies.

The General Theory of Relativity correctly reproduces all validated predictions of Newton’s theory, but expands on our understanding of some of the key principles. Newtonian physics had previously hypothesized that gravity operated through empty space, but the theory lacked explanatory power as far as how the distance and mass of a given object could be transmitted through space. General relativity irons out this paradox, for it shows that objects continue to move in a straight line in space-time, but we observe the motion as acceleration because of the curved nature of space-time. Einstein’s theories of both special and general relativity have been confirmed to be accurate to a very high degree over recent years, and the data has been shown to corroborate many key predictions; the most famous being the solar eclipse of 1919 bearing testimony that the light of stars is indeed deflected by the sun as the light passes near the sun on its way to earth. The total solar eclipse allowed astronomers to -- for the first time -- analyze starlight near the edge of the sun, which had been previously inaccessible to observers due to the intense brightness of the sun. It also predicted the rate at which two neutron stars orbiting one another will move toward each other. When this phenomenon was first documented, general relativity proved itself accurate to better than a trillionth of a percent precision, thus making it one of the best confirmed principles in all of physics.

Applying the principle of general relativity to our cosmos reveals that it is not static. Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) demonstrated in 1928 that the Universe is expanding, showing beyond reasonable doubt that the Universe sprang into being a finite time ago. The most common contemporary interpretation of this expansion is that this began to exist from the moment of the Big Bang some 13.7 billion years ago. However this is not the only plausible cosmological model which exists in academia, and many creation physicists such as Russell Humphreys and John Hartnett have devised models operating with a biblical framework, which -- to date -- have withstood the test of criticism from the most vehement of opponents.

Using the observed cosmic expansion conjunctively with the general theory of relativity, we can infer from the data that the further back into time one looks, the universe ought to diminish in size accordingly. However, this cannot be extrapolated indefinitely. The universe’s expansion helps us to appreciate the direction in which time flows. This is referred to as the Cosmological arrow of time, and implies that the future is -- by definition -- the direction towards which the universe increases in size. The expansion of the universe also gives rise to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that the overall entropy (or disorder) in the Universe can only increase with time because the amount of energy available for work deteriorates with time. If the universe was eternal, therefore, the amount of usable energy available for work would have already been exhausted. Hence it follows that at one point the entropy value was at absolute 0 (most ordered state at the moment of creation) and the entropy has been increasing ever since -- that is, the universe at one point was fully “wound up” and has been winding down ever since. This has profound theological implications; for it shows that time itself is necessarily finite. If the universe were eternal, the thermal energy in the universe would have been evenly distributed throughout the cosmos, leaving each region of the cosmos at uniform temperature (at very close to absolute 0), rendering no further work possible. The General Theory of Relativity demonstrates that time is linked, or related, to matter and space, and thus the dimensions of time, space, and matter constitute what we would call a continuum. They must come into being at precisely the same instant. Time itself cannot exist in the absence of matter and space. From this, we can infer that the uncaused first cause must exist outside of the four dimensions of space and time, and possess eternal, personal, and intelligent qualities in order to possess the capabilities of intentionally space, matter -- and indeed even time itself -- into being. Moreover, the very physical nature of time and space also suggest a Creator, for infinity and eternity must necessarily exist from a logical perspective. The existence of time implies eternity (as time has a beginning and an end), and the existence of space implies infinity. The very concepts of infinity and eternity infer a Creator because they find their very state of being in God, who transcends both and simply is.
See more at: http://www.allaboutscience.org/theory-of-relativity.htm#sthash.NMigRJC2.dpuf

Theory Of Relativity

Theory Of Relativity - The basics of Albert Einsteins theory regarding gravitational phenomena. The assumptions and approximations.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 2:29 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:29:38 -0400

He is a Command Sergeant Major! I believe in a great spirit, from which we draw our spark of life and existence as an extension of that source of life. Or as others might state, a "grand architect of the universes"....not necessarily a spirit in human form that we constructed to help us comprehend. If one accepts the premise of "perfect goodness" one has to accept there must be "perfect badness", an adversary; so if a good God exists, so might a bad one also exist. We might thus not think of the bad fellow as a "God" per se; reserving that term for the most Holy. Some people do argue that the bible points out there are/were "other Gods" if only in a defacto sense. Angels and prophets are in another category of messengers. In that light, the concept of a God that needs us to worship him/her can be troublesome because perfect goodness would not require worship or any action outside itself. That is not to say that we do not need Him/Her or that organized religions to not play a valid role; although one can argue about why there are so many views of a perfect goodness, and why God allows more than one to exist. And yet they do.

Response by SPC Eddie Espejo made Apr 30 at 2015 10:59 PM

SPC Eddie Espejo — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:59:56 -0400

we can accept god to become man to save man but cannot accept man becoming god to save himself.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 1 at 2015 2:37 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Fri, 01 May 2015 02:37:16 -0400

Yes, Elijah, God is VERY REAL and does exist. I know this for an absolute fact, I see it verified day by day. I can prove it. Read this and you will understand.

It has been said that there are no atheists in foxholes, and true or not none of us can tell. What I CAN tell is what I do know, what I have seen and heard. This is my personal experience and sorry, but not open to anyone else to interpret for me, I was there. Here Goes...

My wife, also a Soldier, went into labor with our first child 6 May, 1999. The doctors at Womack Army Medical Center found something wrong and she was MEDEVAC'd to the University of North Carolina Medical Center, Chapel Hill, NC. Those Blackhawk crew members were great to her! When I arrived, she had given birth to a daughter, but before the Doctors would let me see her, they informed us that she was going to die, that very day. I would have only part of a day with my child. I did not want to waste it. Elijah, my daughter AJ Ayscue, died right there in my arms. At the moment that I was about to slip into a depression that I may well never have come out of, I HEARD the Voice of God Almighty. He very simply said, "She is with me now. You left me but I have never left you, Why don't you come home?"

Elijah, lots of reasons I had for not trusting in God really did not matter anymore. So I hit my knees, and I prayed...Really prayed...for the first time in years. "Lord if You are willing to forgive me for all the people I have hurt, for all the things I have done, if you can forgive me for all that, then I will live for you the rest of my Life. Right there, I accepted the free gift of salvation that God gives to all that ask, in Jesus Christ.

It has been nearly 16 years and I can list things you would not believe that I have witnessed where God demonstrated His power. My daughter now was supposed to have Downes, all the tests confirmed it, but we would not abort her because we do not believe in that, so we proclaimed and trusted God would heal her, and she was born perfect. My son got a soda can pop top lodged in his throat but when the doctor had him xrayed from head to foot, not one single foreign object in his body anywhere and we know he did not cough it up nor swallow and pass it...The job I have now...the friends I have now....all a demonstration the God is real, He is here and He loves us. Just ask any of my friends on this site...they will tell you the change was real, and I am real and I mean what I say.

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 1 at 2015 2:56 PM

SFC Stephen King — Fri, 01 May 2015 14:56:01 -0400

“Because here's something else that's weird but true: in the day-to day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship. And the compelling reason for maybe choosing some sort of god or spiritual-type thing to worship—be it JC or Allah, be it YHWH or the Wiccan Mother Goddess, or the Four Noble Truths, or some inviolable set of ethical principles—is that pretty much anything else you worship will eat you alive. If you worship money and things, if they are where you tap real meaning in life, then you will never have enough, never feel you have enough. It's the truth. Worship your body and beauty and sexual allure and you will always feel ugly. And when time and age start showing, you will die a million deaths before they finally grieve you. On one level, we all know this stuff already. It's been codified as myths, proverbs, clichés, epigrams, parables; the skeleton of every great story. The whole trick is keeping the truth up front in daily consciousness.” David Foster Wallace "this is water"

Response by TSgt Christopher D. made May 1 at 2015 3:28 PM

TSgt Christopher D. — Fri, 01 May 2015 15:28:05 -0400

I did not read all the comments, but I'll give my two cents:

The OP asked about the best arguments for and against the existence of God, but as I see it, the burden of "proof" lies with the person making the positive claim, i.e. that there IS a God.

Personally, the best argument I've heard against the existence of God is more witty and philosophical than it is science-based (although it stems from a scientific viewpoint regarding evolution). Christopher Hitchens once said:

"Let's say that the consensus is that our species, being the higher primates, Homo Sapiens, has been on the planet for at least 100,000 years, maybe more. Francis Collins says maybe 100,000. Richard Dawkins thinks maybe a quarter-of-a-million. I'll take 100,000. In order to be a Christian, you have to believe that for 98,000 years, our species suffered and died, most of its children dying in childbirth, most other people having a life expectancy of about 25 years, dying of their teeth. Famine, struggle, bitterness, war, suffering, misery, all of that for 98,000 years.

Heaven watches this with complete indifference. And then 2000 years ago, thinks 'That's enough of that. It's time to intervene,' and the best way to do this would be by condemning someone to a human sacrifice somewhere in the less literate parts of the Middle East."

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 6:14 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 May 2015 18:14:33 -0400

Each person has to decide what they believe for themselves. No one can tell you what to believe, and you can't live off what someone else believes.

BUT ... one of the saddest things on the planet is people who are so weak in whatever they believe that they feel the need to convince someone else ... as if convincing someone else will validate what you believe. In this, atheists can be every bit ANNOYING as the worst Bible-thumper you ever met.

Whatever you believe, be happy with it. And if you aren't, then read, ask questions, go climb a mountain, help sick people in a hospital, volunteer to teach children in a poor school district, whatever it takes to figure out that the world is a WHOLE LOT more important than what you believe.

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 1 at 2015 7:00 PM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Fri, 01 May 2015 19:00:45 -0400

Look, it's good to have a happy place. It's good to believe in something and it's good to be positive. When the bullets start flying only one thing is going to save your ass and it isn't praying or wishful thinking. The only person looking out for you...is you.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 8:39 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 May 2015 20:39:29 -0400

I believe on God and Jesus is my savior.

You seem to be looking for something more scientific. Check out Hugh Ross. http://www.reasons.org

No one can find faith for you.

Response by Sgt Stephen Browning made May 2 at 2015 9:33 PM

Sgt Stephen Browning — Sat, 02 May 2015 21:33:12 -0400

the best evidence is the incalculable odds that all things perfectly came together to form the ecosystem so that if all of any one component like say spiders were to die out the whole ecosystem collapses. That and the fact that we, humans are symbiotic creatures depending on the millions of organisms that live in and on our bodies.Even our digestion is done with the aid of bacteria that we could not see or know about until the 18th century. so how did cells know how to form,or how did these complex chemical processes get figured out by mindless single cell organisms? it didn’t. I believe in a god who is not an old man with grey hair, but a spirit who seeks those who will seek him in spirit. science calls him electromotive force.His name is YAHWEH, if you study what electromotive force does and how it holds all matter together you will see that he truly lives and makes all that we know exist.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 3 at 2015 9:47 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Sun, 03 May 2015 21:47:40 -0400

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 3 at 2015 9:56 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Sun, 03 May 2015 21:56:03 -0400

My mother taught me that your religion is a private matter. I think that I will keep to her advice.

Response by SrA Daniel Hunter made May 3 at 2015 9:59 PM

SrA Daniel Hunter — Sun, 03 May 2015 21:59:58 -0400

Well, I guess I found where everyone has been hanging out.

Someone, perhaps in this thread mentioned "the uncaused, cause." I refer you to the 1st law of motion (aka The Law of Inertia).

Math, not science proves things. Science is the method of eliminating all known variables of non-affect. Therefore, science is confounded by the idea of proving an unprovable unknown.

Response by MSgt Brian Welch made May 4 at 2015 7:02 PM

MSgt Brian Welch — Mon, 04 May 2015 19:02:55 -0400

Call it God, call it what you want, but look around you, look real deep at the world and all of it's beings and living things, look at your own body and all it's systems. I can't see all these things coming together without a "designer". Everything on this earth interplays with everything else. They call it an ecosystem. How can an ecosystem just happen by chance? I don't have all the answers but I know there is something out there.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 8:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 May 2015 08:57:22 -0400

I think if you really want to know the answer to that question then you have to look at it from every angle. You can't just have a biased one sided opinion about this. There are hundreds of religons in the world that believe in the existance of a higher power of some sort. Some believe in this so much that it is used to justify war, or suicide or to put fear into other people with threats of spending an eternity in the fiery pits of hell if they do not believe. But why? Why are people so passionate about their religion? I think all religions of the world may have a little piece of the puzzle and in order to truly understand the answer to that question you have to take a step back and look at the big picture. Where do these stories come from? Logically, why are people compelled to pass this information down to their children and their children's children from generation to generation over thousands of years? I think there is definately some truth in there.

Response by Cpl Anthony Pearson made May 5 at 2015 2:14 PM

Cpl Anthony Pearson — Tue, 05 May 2015 14:14:52 -0400

I was raised Roman Catholic, hated it as a kid. Wasn't friendly, wasn't warm and welcoming. I checked out mentally throughout my teen years.

Then Parris Island happened, and like many others, I found God. He was there, in boot camp, when I needed him/her/it. I graduated boot camp, kinda forgot about God for awhile, and then ended up in the Gulf War in harm's way.

"God", or the idea of God, was there waiting for me again. It felt good, familiar, and it really helped many of us.

Then the war was over, and God kinda dropped off my radar again.

I got married, and eventually, my wife became pregnant. During the birth of my son, and daughter, I again thought about God and all the wonders that are in this lifetime. He was there.

My daughter and son BOTH had medical things wrong with them throughout the years. My daughter was an infant with a malformation in her 'soft spot' on her head. I prayed, hard. Our family did. Surgery was scheduled. Prior to the surgery, she had an exam and an MRI or whatever it was, and the malformation resolved itself. It was gone, completely. God? Maybe. Probably. Or maybe just luck.

As a teenager, my son had a sudden growth appear on his neck. It was bad, large enough that it pushed his adam's apple to the side. We went through the tests, doctor visits, jumping from one specialist to another, second and third and fourth opinions. He was in pain, it was complicated, and surgeons were afraid to touch it. We were scared, in a dark place, and as parents we felt HELPLESS. I hated it.

We prayed. Our church and family and friends prayed.

We found a surgeon in NYC who was the first to perform the surgery needed for this condition. He teaches people all over the world. Within 5 minutes of seeing our son, he smiled and looked at us and said, "I know what this is. I've seen this hundreds of times, and successfully removed these for years. He will be ok."

Like others, I can go on and on with situations that made me wonder about the big guy/gal upstairs.

I will say this...

How could all of this - everything in the entire universe - be an accident? It had to originate somewhere? Sometime? Right? There is NO definitive explanation for how this all came to be. Every answer presented only opens up a dozen more questions. Our minds cannot wrap itself around the WHO, HOW, WHAT, WHY, WHEN.

Do I believe in God, the way it is portrayed in the bible, as Christianity sees it? I don't think so.

Do I believe in God, the creator of all things? Yes, I do believe in an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent Supreme Being (or entity).

But then again... if he/she/it exists... what create him/her/it?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 8:45 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 May 2015 20:45:43 -0400

23 million people throughout history have received the gift of the HOLY GHOST, the very Spirit of God dwelling in a person. How many scientists have witnessed the actual structure of an atom? ZERO
I have 23million witness that can empirically (experience that can be irrefutably reenacted with the same resulting evidence)prove there is a God. Atoms have been studied but there is NO empirical proof of their structure.
I can prove God easier than I can prove science.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 3:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 15:22:35 -0400

Sorry to be so late to the party. I really don't like these types of questions, as it pits different views against each other, and at the end of the day, nobody changes their mind or even accepts others points of view. That said...

BLUF: I personally believe in intelligent design and there is some higher power. I also believe religion has more to do with human nature and comfort than actual influence by a spiritual entity on the Earth. Everybody should have the opportunity to choose what works for them.

Understanding how something like the eye works, that if one rod or cone was half a millimeter off the entire thing wouldn't work, I cannot believe it evolved by chance, even over billions of years. If you use a statistical probability test at the 1% level and had evolution as the null, and design as the alternative, I am willing to bet it will come out in the alternative (I did not try to find all the data needed to do this, just my assumption). I believe there was a higher power involved, and evolution was part of the plan from the beginning.

I also believe there is far too much PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that evolution exists in nature, that the Earth is billions of years old, and that continents of Earth were once one large land mass. The thing about science here on Earth (not talking quantum physics dealing with space vacuums) is it has actual proof to back it up.

Religion was formed by ancient humans in order from them to have some understanding of their environment. It became a way to explain why things like death, natural disasters, weather patterns, etc., happened. In time, in became a way for people to cope with stresses, by being able to project it onto something else. This has been done throughout time in the form of offerings and prayer to spiritual beings we (as a human race) believe exist. As societies evolved, so did the societal norms, which included what was considered right and wrong. Looking at the 10 Commandments objectively, you will see 4-10 are basic norms in every society in the common era.

I'm not saying religion, or lack of religion, is a good or bad thing. In my opinion, organized religion has brought on more death, destruction, and division throughout the world than anything other single variable. However, I understand and support that people need something to believe in. They find solace and inner peace in prayer and meditation. They use the teachings of their religions to guide their lives, help them make decisions, and live within social norms.

Your beliefs and how you worship is your individual right and decision, and nobody should say you are wrong, as long as you are living within those societal norms. I believe you will be a more productive member of society if you are able to listen to and understand other's points of view or opinions.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 5:01 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 17:01:41 -0400

You might as well ask for arguments for or against the tooth fairy, Santa Clause, or Zeus- all the same. With so many brainwashed as children, a time when you are most vulnerable to influence to believe these stories told as fact instead of something written by Dr. Seuss, it is difficult to acknowledge these supernatural beliefs for what they really are as a critically thinking adult even when presented with zero evidence to back any of it up as you would demand for any other wildly absurd claim.

Believe whatever crackpot fairy-tales you want- we have that freedom. Religion is toxic, destructive mental slavery, pure and simple. The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of people that buy into it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Confirmation bias, also called myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's beliefs or hypotheses while giving disproportionately less attention to information that contradicts it.[Note 1][1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in...

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 1:14 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2015 01:14:50 -0400

I strongly believe God does exist. If one were to take the time to look around, examples and facts are all around us. It's honestly not really something that can be put into words when you feel His presence and love in your life.

Response by SrA Diego Alvarez made May 7 at 2015 3:40 PM

SrA Diego Alvarez — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:40:29 -0400

Whenever I see questions like this I fear that the people asking are trolls baiting...
The best way I could answer this is to suggest that you reach out to him personally.
This is like asking someone what love or pain feels like, you have to experience it to understand.
In the end, those who want to believe don't need proof or a good argument and for those who don't no amount seems to be enough.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made May 8 at 2015 7:36 AM

SFC A.M. Drake — Fri, 08 May 2015 07:36:02 -0400

Well it's simple. You can't see the air you breath, yet you know it's there! That's the way I know there is a creator. Besides have you ever seen order after disorder? Two examples:
1. If you blow up something have you ever seen order come from that? ie Big Bang theory

2. I can take my car and make anything out of that car a box, swing set, table and chairs, however I cannot create that out of nothing.

I believe in Jesus Christ my Lord and personal Savior! It's a free gift his offer of salvation. That is all. Yes I believe!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 10:55 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 10:55:23 -0400

Whatever keeps you fighting for your country, family, battle buddies, and the ass holes in your unit you don't like but your job to get back alive

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 5:48 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 17:48:08 -0400

Existence as if we willed it. The Higgs will get us closer to certain considerations but that is highly subjective and has gotten political. At the heart of politics are the coalition of Christian faith and then the fall-out from the rantings of a lunatic fringe who relates to only a few dozen people. They are largely ineffectual besides being a nuisance and I would support non-christians against the likes of them because like the Muslim terrorists it is an ego and cultural thing and we are trying to sort all that out. Good luck with that and good luck finding or disproving the existence of anything as we see dark matter entering the pictures.

The famous double split experiments are proven that if you see something, that a particle acts differently than if you didn't. I can imagine a causality but that would be like proving god and who knows the implications of that.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 10:33 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 22:33:04 -0400

Do your own research

Response by SSgt Marshall Franklin made May 9 at 2015 3:14 AM

SSgt Marshall Franklin — Sat, 09 May 2015 03:14:03 -0400

back in 94 I was riding my 10 speed home from base a man that was not legally drunk at that time hit me head on. I spent three weeks in a coma pronounced dead 5 times. my doctors gave me a 30 percent chance to live and if I did live a 20 percent chance of living a normal life.I am glad to say I beat the odds. during those times I was dead because it was my time to die I crossed over and I met family and friends. and then I remember hearing a lot of ways asking me if I wish to stay or return because there's more I have to do on earth my mission was not yet done. I chose to come back. I know in my heart there is a God I heard his voice I go to a lot of pain with that 5 to 10 percent of my brain destroyed. half my memories from childhood and even from the military are gone.there is a lot I can no longer do but I used to be for my accent this is one of the reason why the Air Force kicked me out and no longer being menaly fit worldwide service. I have a very strong testimony that there is a God and he is watching over us anyone us to work on getting along and treating all no matter wath you believe no matter what color you are or anything as if they were your brother or sister. these are the last days and you can see it in the world today.I have felt true love I love from being so powerful that his love for us if it had weight to it would crush us to nothing. so yes there is a God and yes His love for us is pure.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2015 10:18 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 May 2015 10:18:21 -0400

Most anti religious arguments are about "why" or eventually will get there, most arguments against nature are about "how". There is no definitive proof either way; if there was, we would not be having this discussion.
Personally, I have seen too much to believe it's all chance, coincidence and evolution. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in chance, coincidence and evolution, just that they are not in charge.
God has acted before my eyes too many times for me not to believe in Him and glorify Him in every way.

Response by TSgt Robert R. made May 9 at 2015 1:03 PM

TSgt Robert R. — Sat, 09 May 2015 13:03:39 -0400

GOD is! GOD is not a noun. GOD is a verb. GOD is the thought in which all thoughts exist. GOD is and must be beyond human comprehension. To paraphrase Thomas Aquinas To one who will not believe no proof is possible but to one who believes no proof is necessary. I let the Universe decide..

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2015 8:47 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 May 2015 08:47:19 -0400

God exists in how we perceive, and by the way we are taught to perceive by our culture. Even to the extent where we may not believe at all.

This is not to say that god is a figment of the imagination, but rather a confirmation of the existence of our deit(y/ies).
The reflection of moral fortitude. Be it constructive, or destructive.
The answer to the question, "Who are you?"

We didn't make all of this. The complexity of existance goes beyond mere chance. Nor is it the only one.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made May 11 at 2015 9:06 AM

SSG Steven Borders — Mon, 11 May 2015 09:06:23 -0400

This is a hard question. Because no one will ever know until they pass away. I for one believe in higher being. You can call him God, Allah, El, Elohim etc...

Sometimes you just have to believe in something. I am a Monotheist I do not claim one religion over the other. I take in all and make my one point of view of things.

I personally believe that if it hasn't been proven with science then you just need to go on faith. And it doesn't have to be in a supreme being either. You can believe in your fellow man or your family. What ever gets you through whatever turmoil you are going through.

Just my thoughts.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 11 at 2015 9:11 AM

PFC Tuan Trang — Mon, 11 May 2015 09:11:41 -0400

Well, that depend you, do you believe in god?.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2015 8:27 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 May 2015 08:27:58 -0400

I think God exist. But not as religions described Him. Most believe in God according to their background, culture or education, which I think is wrong. It's being a follower. That's why we have so much extremism. You can notice God presence in your daily life without being part of any religion. That's being spiritual and a sane way to connect with God.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2015 10:44 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 May 2015 10:44:47 -0400

One of the best Arguements a For God comes from StThomas Aquinas in his Summa Theological. You can download a free kindle version. Also another great argument come from C.S. Lewis in his book Mere Christianity. Keep in mind C.S. Lewis started out as an atheist. Of course those are the best ones I have outside of Scripture itself.

Response by SCPO John Croix made May 12 at 2015 6:47 PM

SCPO John Croix — Tue, 12 May 2015 18:47:47 -0400

God said "I am that I am" He made the world and all that is in it. He also gives us the power to chose to believe and honor him, or to turn down a different path. Then he sent his son to die on the cross so that the ones that choose the different path can be forgiven, saved, and brought back to the fold.

Now having said that, I believe that discussions of belief or non belief should be kept private and not spread across public discussion boards. Religion is personal and open discussions can lead to animosity and serious disagreements.

Response by SCPO John Croix made May 12 at 2015 6:49 PM

SCPO John Croix — Tue, 12 May 2015 18:49:58 -0400

well for those who claim to be atheist or agnostic - the only thing to be said at your funeral will be "All dressed up, and no place to go!!"

Response by LTC Stephen F. made May 12 at 2015 10:08 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 12 May 2015 22:08:18 -0400

SGT Mark Sullivan thank you for your honesty. I was raised as an agnostic and had a very early desire to approach life using the scientific method in the physical sciences. I have always liked to dig into evidence. One of the beauties of living in the age in which we live is that archaeological evidence is being unearthed in so many areas of this planet. The net result is that previous theories, dogmas and hypotheses can be challenged if sufficient evidence is uncovered by using the scientific method.
Many people who have not looked at the ample evidence believe that translations of ancient works including the books of the Bible rely on other translations when there are so many ancient manuscripts available to go back to. You are probably not aware of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament [currently number 28] process which compares new evidence with the copious ancient documents already available. These scholars are working to develop the most reliable copy of the Greek New Testament. The work has focused on resolving spelling variations and word order variations. The translation committees that work on updating extant versions of the Bible and developing new versions use the Nestle-Aland committees work to supplement their own research. Because English and Spanish and many other languages change over time, effort is made to update ancient texts, including the Bible, to be more easily understood by the generations that will be reading the texts. The goal is to make the ancient text understood as well as possible. Some processes use a word for word emphasis from original languages to receptor languages while others use primarily a thought by thought approach. Many ancient documents were written in various near and middle eastern scripts and languages which are very different from English, Spanish, etc. translation needs to be more nuanced than translating between languages of the same language group.
Personally like the quixotic Don Quixote I fought God like tilting at windmills. However I actively fought his messengers and His message. Each of us needs to do our own research and soul searching. If you honestly seek, God will reveal Himself to you in His way uniquely intended for you because He knows exactly what you need to know.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made May 12 at 2015 10:18 PM

SFC A.M. Drake — Tue, 12 May 2015 22:18:20 -0400

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2015 10:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 May 2015 22:45:20 -0400

I believe there is a God.

Response by CPT Barbara Smith made May 13 at 2015 6:15 AM

CPT Barbara Smith — Wed, 13 May 2015 06:15:45 -0400

Faith.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 9:28 AM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2015 09:28:49 -0400

Probably not.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 6:19 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2015 18:19:47 -0400

Great Q. If we knew the answer for suresies, you wouldn't have to ask. I don't have an argument, I just have faith.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made May 13 at 2015 6:40 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Wed, 13 May 2015 18:40:12 -0400

To me God is real, if he was not i would not be here today. Two years ago this month i made the decision to end my life. My wife came upstairs and asked if i was okay something told her she needed to ask me that. Since then i have knowen it was God giving me my second chance at life. I have a few other incidents where there is no other explanation then God. My life has not been easy since coming back to my belief but it has been the happiest 2 years of my life.

Response by PFC Alex Rivers made May 14 at 2015 3:01 AM

PFC Alex Rivers — Thu, 14 May 2015 03:01:02 -0400

My response to this question, is that I will find out when I get there.
Or prove he doesn't.

Response by SPC Dan Goforth made May 14 at 2015 5:52 AM

SPC Dan Goforth — Thu, 14 May 2015 05:52:54 -0400

The fact is, many of the ideas that are called theories which would allow this universe to exist without an external creative force aren't proper theories. They've never been subjected to an experiment in order to determine that they are observably likely true.

A telling failure is the one in which in the last 50+ years, biochemists have been attempting to recreate the protogenesis process by which basic proteins could form amino acids, which could then theoretically be the precursor to DNA and ultimately life. 50+ years, and still no deuterogenesis.

On these two factors alone, true science actually dictates an allowance for an external intelligent creative force.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 2:19 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 02:19:43 -0400

My one and only speech is this ppl in this world doesn't believe in God/Jesus because the dnt have what it takes to follow all his commandments no one wants to give up their son for a God they cnt see so they dnt fear him but one day the bible says "He will make a believer out of the disbeliever

Response by SGT Charles Cameron made May 15 at 2015 2:33 AM

SGT Charles Cameron — Fri, 15 May 2015 02:33:11 -0400

There was a man, a student of The Great Buddha, who asked, "Oh Great Buddha...is there a God?" The Buddha said nothing..." Oh Great Buddha...is there not a God?"...The Buddha said nothing. The student said..."Oh, thank you for your great wisdom!"... and he went away joyfully. Another student, listening, said, " Great Buddha, you said nothing? What kind of answer was that?" The Great Buddha replied, "If I had said, 'yes',
the student would have left "happy"...because of what I had told him. If I had said 'no',
he would have gone away sad. The concept of God is personal, and experiencial...
special to each individual".
The point is, the acknowledge of God...or a creator, is ingrained in our deepest subconscious. All sentient beings know this...even if they cannot explain it...it's there.
Does He exist? For me, I say yes...according to what I have seen and experienced in my life...but that's for you to discover...and decide.

Response by SA Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 11:00 AM

SA Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 11:00:28 -0400

With all due respect to those who believe in a god or many gods, I honestly don't care if they exist. I am more about worshiping the earth, nature, living by the "Golden Rule", etc. I care about how I treat others and how they treat me.

Response by LTC David Stender made May 15 at 2015 11:13 AM

LTC David Stender — Fri, 15 May 2015 11:13:47 -0400

Is there a God; pretty heavy question. Well either there is a God who orchestrates the universe or it is all random chance. So, it took 40 years to create a working computer that is continually improved each year by thousands of experts. Your body and mind work similar yet better than computers. Logically, I can't accept this as random chance and openly profess my Christian belief in God.

Response by Sgt James Morse made May 15 at 2015 3:08 PM

Sgt James Morse — Fri, 15 May 2015 15:08:15 -0400

Okay, so basically the existence of God is proven by the lack of evidence that God exists. Or, at least, that seems to be the gist of most of the “non-believer” responses.

The unfortunate thing is that there is far better evidence for God, than there is against Him.

As a Christian, I have an advantage in this debate. A deist would be limited to works directly attributed to a divine creator; as a Christian I have access to the evidence provided by the historical record of the life and work of Christ. Since the existence of Christ (as Redeemer) pre-supposes the existence of God, Christians have a bit more to bring to the table.

To keep this manageable, I’m going to have to make certain blanket statements, without including specific proofs. It isn’t that the proofs do not exist; all of my research and reference material is currently in storage while my house is being renovated. If I include it, I can prove it, and I will be happy to do so inasmuch as I am able with my currently limited resources.

So, then, on to the argument…

The life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the best-documented of all ancient personalities. The number of documents (numbering well into and beyond ten thousand), as well as the reliability of the sources and corroboration between different authors provide a very solid case for the Gospels.

The archaeological record has yet to turn up any evidence that disproves the Bible, in any capacity. In fact, every year more evidence is unearthed that points directly to the reliability of the Scripture. This is especially evidenced by the Gospel according to Luke; for decades, secular archaeologists insisted that the specificity of the gospel pointed towards its invention. They also claimed that since digs in the regions that Luke describes had, at the time, failed to yield any evidence corroborating the biblical narrative, it must have been mostly , if not completely, fiction. Then, in the 90’s, the two biggest “flaws” in Luke’s Gospel turned out to be exactly as Luke had described them, exactly where Luke said they would be, and dated to the time period that Luke was writing about.

Over 500 Bible prophecies have been literally fulfilled, including the birth, life and crucifixion of Jesus, the razing of the Jewish Temple at Jerusalem, the Babylonian king Cyrus, and Alexander’s siege of the city of Tyre. (The first mention of Alexander in the historical record is a prophecy in the book of Isaiah; the next mention of him doesn’t appear until a couple hundred years after he died.) Jesus Christ, Himself, literally fulfilled over one hundred prophecies made by Old Testament authors. The Bible also prophesies the restoration of the Jews to the Promised Land, which happened in 1948.

Miracles which occurred at the time of Christ’s crucifixion are described by Roman governors as far away as Syria and Spain.

So far, science has failed to disprove the existence of God (although it’s been trying real, real hard for a long time. The origins of the universe, the arrangement of celestial bodies, and the emergence and sustainment of life have been shown, in statistical terms, to be most easily explained by the existence and work of an intelligent Creator. This is something that gets disputed a lot, especially by evolutionists who want to argue that the fossil record proves that we evolved slowly over the course of eons. However, using statistical models, even if (and it is an enormous IF) evolution explained the creation of Man, our planet is much, much, much too young for us to be as evolved as we are, let alone off the beach and walking erect. I’m not going to get into a debate over whether or not Adam and Eve had belly-buttons, or how long it took God to create the world. It’s enough to say that the alternative claims don’t hold up under close scrutiny.

Philosophically, there is little room for any truth that contradicts Intelligent Creation. The existence of Moral Absolutes, the sense that there is a standard of good, and beauty, and righteousness, all point to the existence of a perfectly wise, perfectly holy Creator (God). In the overwhelming majority of the Earth’s population, there is a sense, felt deep in the psyche, that what we do in life has meaning beyond the limits of our present, corporeal lives. If there were no God against whom to compare the things and events in our lives, we would be unable to say, “Oh, this painting is sublime,” or, “This man’s actions are reprehensible,” because we would have no yard stick against which to hold such things. To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, it is impossible to know that a stick is crooked, unless we know what a straight stick looks like.

There is an enormous amount of proof that God exists, that Jesus Christ existed and was raised from the tomb, and that there is, in fact, a heaven and hell— to one of which all people will go at the end of their natural life. Considering that I am left somewhat disarmed by my lack of reference, the best I can do at this exact moment is to say, quite confidently, that anyone who claims to have followed “evidence” to the conclusion that there is no God has simply not been diligent in their research. I started out an agnostic, and spent twenty years as a pagan, but the evidence is what eventually convinced me of the existence of God. It was life, and its trials, that finally forced me to my knees to beg forgiveness for my many, many sins, and to carry me when I was too weak to walk on my own. Anecdotally, what I have experienced and seen since that night leaves absolutely no room for argument against that we are all created beings, made in the image of God, and loved by God; that He wants a relationship with us; that He will do everything He can to bring us down the path to salvation; and that He loves us, and grants us the dignity, of choosing for ourselves whether to enter into a relationship with Him, or not.

The gates of hell, it is said, are locked from the inside.

If anyone has a question or argument, I’ll be happy to clarify to the best of my ability. I am a bit reticent to state specifics (such as numbers, dates, etymology, etc.) without access to my materials, but if I cannot give you the information I will probably know where it can be found. I ask only that any replies are respectful, and asked with a sincere desire for an answer; if you have an argument against anything I say or have alluded to, again: be respectful, and present your case with an open mind. It would be tragic if, after having been spoon-fed the one thing that could alter your viewpoint, you refuse to consider it because it runs counter to your current manner of thinking. I will do the same. I recently told another atheist— truthfully— that if they could shake my faith, if they could give me cause to believe that everything I know about Christ is built on insupportable fallacies, I would love to hear it. I really, really miss extra-marital sex and bourbon.

~Allen

Response by FN Poppa Phil made May 15 at 2015 7:58 PM

FN Poppa Phil — Fri, 15 May 2015 19:58:46 -0400

Does God live? The tomb was declared empty, over 500 reported seeing a resericted Jesus, all common in the bible and the Torah. But that was 2000 years ago. Current day, I should be dead, fell 3 stories broke my left collar bone 3 Dobbs on my left side, the left wing of my pelvis was stolen and turned 90 degrees, crushed three vertebra The Dr said I may never walk again . I walk 5 miles per bay every day now,less than 1year after the fall they found lung cancer, I am now a 2 year survivor.Does God exsist?To me yes He has healed my body from my stupid mistakes and gives me peace in my walk with Him. I am sorry that the Church in America has been so short sighted to where we have almost eliminated the love that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost has for all of us. Now is the time to show God's love by loving one another.

Response by SSG Toryn Green made May 16 at 2015 3:10 PM

SSG Toryn Green — Sat, 16 May 2015 15:10:46 -0400

I don't think God exists. I KNOW that God exists! I have personally seen Him work through my life and through the lives of many others. There is no proof. That's what makes it faith. Sadly, we live in a world of instant gratification and I want period of everything. God did not intend for us to live this way. He intended for us to live by faith, not proof and for Him to work in our lives in His time, not when WE see fit. He knows what's best for our lives and we must allow him to work in His time and according to His plan.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made May 16 at 2015 7:40 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sat, 16 May 2015 19:40:27 -0400

Eternity is beyond time. When we have actually entered eternity we will be experiencing part of the communicable attributes of God. Time only makes sense for things which change. In eternity time will no longer affect us, because we as believers are transformed into our eternal bodies which will not change. I have no idea how this will occur or how wonderful it will be to never grow old. Eye has not seen nor mind conceived the wonders that God has prepared for us.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 12:01 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 May 2015 00:01:17 -0400

I have discovered that even more important to a person than irrefutable evidence given in support of a premise, proposition, argument, or the like, is the motivation to believe. Whatever the motivation may be, it is, more often than not, even stronger than any evidence one can give. I know of those that once believed in a god, but some catastrophic event in life turned them against that god. Then we often hear of those who through other kinds of catastrophic events begin to believe, whereas they didn't believe at first. It depends on motivation more than argument, however strong the argument may be.

Response by SGT Kevin Brown made May 18 at 2015 10:56 AM

SGT Kevin Brown — Mon, 18 May 2015 10:56:25 -0400

I was a former Atheist who converted to Catholicism in Afghanistan in 2005. Obviously that identifies that I believe in God, but my reasons for converting may better answer your actual question. I warn you, this answer is pretty long winded, but I provide examples of how science proved to me the existence of God.

While I claimed Atheism, I spent hours studying Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Paganism and numerous other religions, under the guise that I was simply trying to gain an understanding of why people believe in what they believe. In all reality I was spiteful. Having grown up in a strict fundamentalist Christian household, I became angry with Christianity and God, especially after being told time and time again that I needed to take answers to my questions on faith (without any valid evidence). This caused me to turn my back on Christianity, God and anything related and sent me on a horrible path of trying to disprove as much of Christianity (and other religions) as possible.

Atheists, theists and the like all have the same questions: "Why are we here", "How did we get here" and so on and so on. Some look towards the Bible, Koran or Torah, others look for scientific evidence of our creation and yet others ignore the question in order to obtain the bliss of not having to worry or think about it. Even though I was hell bent on destroying Christianity, I still wanted answers to life's biggest questions. I studied Hawkins, Darwin and many journals, books and articles (from a big bang or non-creationist point of view). Having gained this "knowledge" about life and everything about it, my pompous 20 year old "know it all" self felt highly obligated to share that knowledge and try to prove wrong a SME in the field of creationism, our Catholic Chaplin.

We had an equal understanding going in to our many, many, many conversations and took each other up on our challenges (reading suggested material, articles and so on). It was testing those readings, his answers and our conversations utilizing the scientific method and critical thinking and logic that inevitably won me over to converting to Catholicism. Many would look at that and scoff (as I would have in the past), however, it is true. Below are a few examples of the evidence I found in the existence of God.

* Big Bang Theory - I still support the Big Bang Theory and believe that the universe erupted in a split second in a mass explosion that formed out universe. With that said, the probability of such event having taken place spontaneously and without cause (cause and effect) or happening again is so astronomical (no pun intended) that it is nearly statistically impossible. When taking holy scripture contextually (as apposed to literally), a cause is given by the command of a creator, "Let there be light". If you notice the words uttered (or at least recorded thousands of years ago) where not let there be a universe, or let there be planets, or anything of that matter, it was exactly that, "Let there be light". The Big Bang suggests that out of nothing (darkness) the universe exploded outwards (light) instantly at a very powerful rate in all directions and everything began taking form.

* Time, space and other dimensions - Time is a man made measuring tool utilized to keep order, identify periods of existence and so on. Though many argue that time is the only relevant thing out there, I argue that time is irrelevant. What I mean by that is without time or the concept of time, we can find logic in those theories which exist today that our universe is merely a one of an unlimited number of universes which exist simultaneously together. This thought is relatively new to the scientific community, however, many religions have adapted this belief for thousands and thousands of years. When correlated with the big bang theory, this theory identifies that not only was our universe "poofed" into existence, but all that is, was as well. In Christianity these other universes have been identified as heaven, hell, purgatory, paradise, limbo and so on.

* Statistical Probability - Most astronomers will tell you that is almost statistically impossible that we are the only life in the universe and though we cannot prove other life exists (yet), we cannot rule it out or disprove it either (sounds like a familiar argument). Whether it be Vulcan, God or ET, it doesn't matter. The statistical probability that something bigger, more powerful and supreme to us existing in the universe(s) is astronomically high (again no pun intended). That doesn't prove that God exists, but it does provide the strong probability that we are not the highest form of intelligence in the universe or any other and that something beyond our level of comprehension most likely exists somewhere.

I have many more examples and theories that led me to Catholicism and this is a subject I study and test still to this day. To prevent me from writing a book via Rally Point I will keep this list somewhat short. As far as your question regarding Gods omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent existence (an argument I regularly utilized as an Atheist to try and dispel aspects of the Christian God), I have a few argumentative statements.

The first is related to the aspects of God being omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. For your best answer, please review my three examples above (the big bang theory, time, space and dimensions and statistical probability). To sum it up, how these things are possible is beyond our level of comprehension, just like how the American electoral system is beyond the comprehension of a star fish.

Now for Omnibenevolence. God is good. As far as you and I define good, he is a vengeful, jealous, sadistic being that could give two sh$#s less about humans (he doesn't stop someone from dying of cancer or stop an earthquake from taking the lives of thousands of people and he wants to be worshiped on top of it). With that said, God is good. What I mean by that is God is what is good, not yours or my definition of what good is (please refer to the statement regarding our inability to comprehend certain things). This does not need to be taken on faith, because faith is excepting another mans interpretation of God and what is good. God did not say "I Am because man says I am", he said "I Am".

Now similar arguments to mine have been shot down time and time again, usually under the rebuttal of accepting such things as faith, blind faith or my favorite, willful/blissful ignorance. I say again, like I said above, I continue to study, test and try to prove wrong all theories (scientific method) I have mentioned, other theories I have not, new theories and God himself in order to gain the greatest understanding possible for myself. If you are not willing to take the time to do the same you either will not believe what others have found, you are no looking for answers in the first place (like my vengeful misguided need to disprove Christians out of the hatred and anger I had for family and the answers given by he church) or you choose to believe them....on faith.

Response by SGT Jimmy Stout made May 19 at 2015 10:52 AM

SGT Jimmy Stout — Tue, 19 May 2015 10:52:58 -0400

Yes next question? You sure youre not in the air force?

Response by SGT Frances Richardson made May 20 at 2015 12:07 PM

SGT Frances Richardson — Wed, 20 May 2015 12:07:42 -0400

I honestly don't know which is why I now identify as agnostic. There's too much that makes me doubt but because of my upbringing, I can't say for sure that I don't think he exists. I just know that I no longer worship one.

Response by CPT Kurt Woods made May 20 at 2015 4:16 PM

CPT Kurt Woods — Wed, 20 May 2015 16:16:26 -0400

Many authors to the books of the Bible. They're all consistent. Thousands have witnessed His great works.
It's OK to question His existence. Seeking knowledge is power and suggested in scripture; however, to deny God is blatant foolishness.
You might say "I don't see God." Ok, but you don't see AIR & WIND but I bet you believe in its existence.
There is Good (GOD) & there is Bad (Satan). Good shall persevere!

Response by SPC Rebecca Lovie made May 20 at 2015 11:42 PM

SPC Rebecca Lovie — Wed, 20 May 2015 23:42:43 -0400

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bYFk9A62Q0c

Rare Footage of President Ronald Reagan Speaking the Gospel

Being the president of the United States is not an easy task and he knew God had his hand over his Presidency. President Ronald Reagan was a man after God's ...

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 8:55 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 20:55:11 -0400

There is no actual physical evidence proving there is a god a pantheon flying spaghetti monster whatever but I thought that was point to have faith in what you can't see I don't believe but I don't laugh at who do its real to them and I'm not them so how can I prove or disprove it really? We don't know even the tiniest fraction about the universe so maybe one day it will be proven for against a creator but I doubt it and not any time soon

Response by CMSgt Robert Remel made May 22 at 2015 3:57 PM

CMSgt Robert Remel — Fri, 22 May 2015 15:57:01 -0400

As if the Military doesn't have enough to think about.....now we waste our time doing what people have done for 3000 years.....does God exist ? Completed over 30 semester hours at St. Leo University on this same subject. This debate is a waste of time ! Count me out ! CMSgt Bob Remel. 100% Combat Disabled Vietnam Veteran.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 23 at 2015 12:10 AM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Sat, 23 May 2015 00:10:25 -0400

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made May 23 at 2015 2:08 AM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Sat, 23 May 2015 02:08:15 -0400

There are no good arguments for or against the existence of God because the existence cannot be proved or disproved; that's why it's called "Faith".

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 6:25 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 06:25:36 -0400

Can this thread die already?

Response by SFC Jason Hodge made May 25 at 2015 6:39 PM

SFC Jason Hodge — Mon, 25 May 2015 18:39:57 -0400

The worst moment for the atheist is when he is really thankful, and has nobody to thank.- Dante Gabriel Rossetti

Response by SFC Jason Hodge made May 25 at 2015 6:40 PM

SFC Jason Hodge — Mon, 25 May 2015 18:40:57 -0400

•"Does God know he exists?" "Of course he does. Otherwise, you could not have asked the question, and I could not have answered." ◦Douglas Adams

Response by SFC Jason Hodge made May 25 at 2015 7:20 PM

SFC Jason Hodge — Mon, 25 May 2015 19:20:04 -0400

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”–Werner Heisenberg, who was awarded the 1932 Nobel Prize in Physics for the creation of quantum mechanics (which is absolutely crucial to modern science). Some of the most brilliant scientific minds in the history of the human race have come to the scientific conclusion that God exists. I would suggest that if you are in doubt, just ask him to come into your life, you will be suprised of the outcome.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made May 26 at 2015 9:41 AM

SGT Anthony Bussing — Tue, 26 May 2015 09:41:20 -0400

until god sits down with me...and PROVES he is real...not a chance in hell will I believe...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 9:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 09:56:45 -0400

I dont think there is a "best" argument for or against a Supreme God" Its a very argumentative subject like Politics "which we shouldnt discuss lol" and abortion. If someone believes a certain way it has been instilled in them since a very young age. You dont change someones beliefs and if by chance you do...very well played brother...very well played!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 10:13 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 10:13:52 -0400

I apologize in advance or the wall of text.

The way I look at it, there IS some higher power out there that either keeps all these tested and proven scientific systems working, or is an engineer of sorts that created them to keep the universe working.

Is this force sentient? Is it conscious? Can it hear, speak, touch, and such? Is it one being? No one really knows; and even if they do, there will always be those who refuse to believe. After all, there are still people who refuse to believe the Earth is round.

The way I see it, fact is just an opinion or explanation that is universally accepted and regarded as such. Change one rule, and it all changes. Add one more number, and math falls to pieces, for example. Facts change as we gain more understanding.

Back on subject. I do not think it matters WHAT you believe so long as you live your life with good character. Virtues and such. Kind, respectful, and such. You know right from wrong whether you believe in God or not, so live in the right, and you can't be wrong can you?

Think of it this way: there have been entire civilizations based around many different religions. The ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans, Norse, Asian cultures, and countless more all believed in divine entities ages before there was any reference of "God." Are we to believe that this Christian God condemned literally millions of people all because they called him by multiple or different names?

The stories in the scripts may be different, but it isn't the story itself that is important, but the messages they convey, the lessons and virtues they inspire, that are important. A truly perfect being, I believe, would not condemn someone to a hellish afterlife simply because they called the being the wrong name, or read the wrong stories. Character earns your place in whatever waits after death, not simple words and names. If you focus too much on the minor details, you will fail to see the bigger picture. If I am truly to abide to rules set by a script to a point, then what happened to all of those who came before it was written? Is ignorance (or rather, impossibility) truly a reason to condemn them? Even if they lived a less "sinful" life than mine?

No matter what or who "God" is, or if it or the afterlife is even a thing, I believe that we may not even know its true name, or even the real story. But, we have the lessons. We know what is right. Do it, and you will be rewarded, either by a peaceful afterlife, or a pleasant memory. Details have seeded the wars, not the lessons, not the virtues. There are good people in every culture, and there are bad, regardless of belief.

I apologize again for the wall of text

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 11:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 11:34:33 -0400

No. There just isn't a need for a God in the universe. Until I see verifiable evidence, I won't believe in Him/Her/It.

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made May 28 at 2015 5:01 PM

LCpl Steve Wininger — Thu, 28 May 2015 17:01:57 -0400

St. Augustine had some of the best arguments for the existence of God. Regardless of what anyone says, I have no doubt about God's existence.

Response by SSG James Arlington made May 28 at 2015 5:07 PM

SSG James Arlington — Thu, 28 May 2015 17:07:09 -0400

The Texas floods.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2015 11:32 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 May 2015 11:32:28 -0400

To each his own when it comes to a higher power. I am glad I was born in the United States where I won't get my head cut off for believing in a Higher Power.

Response by SSG Paul Lanciault made Jun 1 at 2015 6:48 AM

SSG Paul Lanciault — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 06:48:14 -0400

Look around, Look up. All that came from some where, some one, something. Could it have been an accident? A bunch of rocks and balls of gas spinning, orbiting for billions (trillions) of light years for no reason. Look at the human body, plants, insects, all some great big oops? All for no reason. Someone got it all going.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 10:56 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 10:56:58 -0400

Any eveidence either for or against is in the heart and mind of the believer. Scotoma; the eye sees what it chooses to see. I see a tree, you see GOD. I see a bust of Poseidon, you see a statue of a bearded hippie. The evidence is in ALL things, but it is what the BELIEVER CHOOSES TO BELIEVE that makes it nature or clerical evidence of divinty. I am Hellenic. For those who do not know what that is, I follow, believe in, and worship the gods of Olympus. Do I see evidence of their existence? Absolutely. More in people than nature, but I see it. Now that same eveidence that I see, you may interpret an entirely different way. They say that seeing is believing. But you'll only see what you truly believe.

Response by PFC Chris Hemingway made Jun 2 at 2015 5:02 PM

PFC Chris Hemingway — Tue, 02 Jun 2015 17:02:42 -0400

Actually spc freeman anyone with a basic understanding of quantum physics could tell that the multiverse theory is sound just as sound as believing in god and they have as much evidence for that theory as you do in your god because all the evidence you have is a book that has been written and rewritten more times then any other religious text in the world you don't have physical evidence other than that book and before you name theologians who proclaim Yahweh exists remember they too only have that book therefore there is no other exact undeniable evidence anymore then what science has to disprove him

Response by PO2 Josh Rymer made Jun 3 at 2015 6:53 PM

PO2 Josh Rymer — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 18:53:22 -0400

Yes there is a God. But my belief in religion is different. I belive God exists and I know his son came to the earth and was crucified, buried and resurrected, for our sins because he loved us so much. Religion will send you to hell but a relationship with Jesus Christ will get you to heaven. I know that's off topic a little bit but I often do that. I have heard some athiest say that if you can see God then he doesn't exist, but I say you don't have to see the wind to feel it and belive it is there. I mean how could two people get together and make another person? It is by design. That in itself is a miracle. And God has blessed me with 2 and one on the way. And just to think about how she is developing and growing blows myind. And I have heard athiest say well why do you belive? And I will tell you how I came to have a relationship with God. My wife and I had been having trouble for a couple of years, and nothing seemed to go our way. From having to file bankruptcy, to almost getting divorced. And we hardly ever really spoke to each other. But within the same week my wife and I both asked the other to talk. And it wasn't about getting divorced, we had both been feeling something in our hearts that said we can't keep going like this and we needed to change. That next Sunday we went to church and we both listened but we're nervous about going to the alter, and I was sitting there saying God if you'll play one more song I'll go. And I still sat there after the next song was sung. And I said if you'll play amazing grace, I will know you are talking to me. And the preacher was saying this is lingering on for a reason. And my grandma asked my wife if she wanted to go pray about the time amazing grace began playing. And I knew that was the lord way of getting both of us to the alter to pray at the same time. And as I asked the lord to come into my life and clean me up, I was able to breathe better and I was happy for the first time in a long time. And just like the wind I couldn't see him but I felt him and I belive he is there. You may not getting everything you want but he will provide what you need. He is really an awsome God, his grace is when he gives you what you don't deserve, and mercy is when he doesn't give you what you do deserve. Believing is one of the easist thing to do but keeping the faith is harder. But I know I got off topic again but I love all of you and God bless

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 8:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:33:37 -0400

I do not believe in his existence, I mean look up, do you see him ? I sure dont. I sure hope that that does not make me a horrible person.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 12:17 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:17:32 -0400

I got the answer but I am not telling you, LOL

Response by MGySgt Christian MacMillan made Jun 4 at 2015 7:23 AM

MGySgt Christian MacMillan — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 07:23:52 -0400

For those who believe, no evidence is necessary. For those who do not, no evidence is enough.

Response by SPC Samantha Greenlee made Jun 4 at 2015 1:22 PM

SPC Samantha Greenlee — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:22:41 -0400

Of course. He sent His only son to die on the cross for our sins. The same one who forgave all of my sins will forgive yours if only you believe.

Response by SPC Samantha Greenlee made Jun 4 at 2015 11:50 PM

SPC Samantha Greenlee — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 23:50:18 -0400

I had an angel lift me off of a four wheeler when the steering went out and was heading for a steep ditch. I was a young child and was riding on the back of a four wheeler, a friend was driving. I was holding a water balloon and we were going to throw it on the boys. For some reason I wanted to look down and when I did this, this put me in perfect position for the angel to pull me off of the four wheeler. When I realized what happened I was standing up and watched the four wheeler head straight for the ditch with my friend on it, unable to turn it and went straight into the ditch. I don’t know why I have Godly intervention that day. Maybe I would have lost a limb, brain damage, died. Ill find out one day when I die and go to heaven. This is my testimony.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Jun 5 at 2015 7:29 PM

SPC Alejandro Martinez — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 19:29:50 -0400

Undeniably, yes, but you have to have the faith that science actually proves this. I have beyond science based on personal interaction.

Response by CPL Zachariah Chitwood made Jun 6 at 2015 2:10 AM

CPL Zachariah Chitwood — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 02:10:48 -0400

That is incredibly bard to answer, personally. I was raised Roman Catholic (ever miss Mass with Irish family? Don't!). I had my faith until my first deployment to Iraq. Seeing some of what I seen in Baghdad and Ramadi made me question it. And one action that I regret to this very day caused me to turn my back... I am on the path to healing now and I have to believe that my fallen brothers went somewhere good. I know it's not the best answer, but it's the best I can give.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Jun 6 at 2015 5:30 PM

SSG James Arlington — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 17:30:14 -0400

No one can prove, or disprove God. Man has books written by men. Period.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jun 9 at 2015 7:25 AM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 07:25:32 -0400

Not being a Physics guy I was watching a documentary on the beginning of the universe to try some learnin'. Of course there is no mention of God. (Which is cool, some scientist do not believe God and science can exist together. I don't judge. I just wanted to know more about the Big Bang that started it all). So this guy who seems really smart starts telling about that there is nothing and then these particles keep getting pulled in together and it gets denser and denser till it finally can't take it any more and BOOOM! Big Bang!

That is where he lost me. Where did these particles come from? I think i missed something. It is like reading a book starting in the middle. Not once did anybody theorize where the particles came from. It was just accepted they were there. How can you say Big Bang disproves there is a God and yet you just have faith that particles came from nothing?

Is there anybody that can shed some light on this for me? Dumb it down for me, remember I was a MP.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 9:52 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:52:56 -0400

In my discussions if have come across this. There if faith based and proof based. The two cannot understand each other. Atheists do not view the bible (and other holy books) as proof for anything as it is not a peer reviewed source and the stuff in it is not reproduceable. Theists believe without proof and find the bible (or other holy book) as all the rpoof they need.
It is this one thing that divides and canot be overcome. Atheists can throw all the proof (or lack of) at a theist and they can just say "because god made it that way"
"You can't prove god exists" "Well, you can't prove he doesn't exist" "I don't have to prove he doesn't exist."
As for an actual answer to the question - there is no proof. Claims for existence must be backed by proof. Many things in the books described as God's hand or breath or whatever can now be answered by things as thunder, lightning, earthquakes, etc... This is one of my favorite discussions and I do get drawn into it easily, but it is futile. Theists cannot think like atheists, and vice versa. Faith is powerful, but unproven.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 10:05 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 10:05:57 -0400

Faith is the best arguement I can come up with. IF you have faith in something you do not have to see it in order to believe in it. I feel love, but I have never truly seen love in the flesh. I have seen examples of it, and how people act when they are hit by it, but I have never seen love with my very own eyes. I have never seen a fart either, but I do know and sense when quite a few of them are there.

Does God exist? I believe he does. I have faith that he does. I have felt his presense.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jul 3 at 2015 4:29 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 16:29:59 -0400

This should pretty much sum it all up.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jul 10 at 2015 9:24 PM

SSG John Jensen — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 21:24:06 -0400

While doing some Independence day reading found: "Of all the systems of religion thet ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to the man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity" "I believe in the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist of doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow creatures happy....I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches whether Jewish, christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit"
Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
can you not examine what religion does to the eople of the world?

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Aug 19 at 2015 2:50 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:50:04 -0400

GOD is not dead! I just saw this movie over the weekend...I liked it....everyone should see it.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=God+is+not+dead&ei=UTF-8&fr=chr-greentree_ff&ilc=12&type=683654

God is not dead - Yahoo Search Results

College philosophy professor Mr. Radisson's curriculum is challenged by his new student, Josh, who believes God exists.

Response by MSgt Jeffrey Glick made Aug 19 at 2015 6:56 PM

MSgt Jeffrey Glick — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:56:34 -0400

Okay being Jewish I believe there is a G_D I believe in the Torah I believe JC was a great prophet who was credited with many miracles. That is my take on it. In order to change someones belief system it takes a significant emotional event for that to happen usually. So arguing is sort of pointless either you do or you don't there is no middle. Like Mr. Miyagi says karate do yes or karate do no but no karate do sometimes

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2015 3:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:22:16 -0400

Well wether he exists or not we will never know. I just want to tell you a story. There was a guy named John who said he found some golden tablets and he needed magic glasses to read them. He got lots of people to believe him and they still do to this day. Now a shady guy was traveling around selling real Egyptian relics. See back in those days people didn't have the reverence for history like we do know and grave robbing was a big business. And he ran into john and John bought a scroll from the salesman. No knew how to read hyroglyphics back then so they could not interpret the scroll. Well John said he was going to do the same thing, use his magic glasses to read the scroll. So John claimed to use the magic glasses and said that the image depicted jobe sacrificing his son to God, and a lot of people believed him. Well several years later the Rosetta Stone was discovered and new scholars were produced who could fully decipher hieroglyphs. The scroll had nothing to do with what John said it did. It was just a death scroll for an Egyptian merchant with modest means. Even I. Light of this evidence there are still millions of people who still believe that John found golden tablets and used magic glasses to read them. Moral, there's a sucker born every minute.

Response by SFC (CA) Roland Dell made Sep 30 at 2015 5:53 AM

SFC (CA) Roland Dell — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 05:53:03 -0400

I am a near death survivor (on my 20 Years, no less) even a couple days after my ordination by men to boot, I was albescent from my body and present with my Lord (2 Cor 5) ...
It doesn't matter what others believe; as I have found that "Even if someone should rise from the dead they still won't believe" - (Luke 16:31). Most, "I dare say" will never have any love for the truth- that they might be saved (2-Thessalonians 2:10-12) ... And eventually they will be given over to what they love more than the Truth, who is Jesus Christ. Yet is God competent to work in whom he chooses? Yes, he definitely is - yet way too often men try and play God, even in religious' zeal. Salvation is God's work alone by grace; modern day religious' scholar's need to back off and let God be God, to whom HE chooses.

Response by Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire made Nov 17 at 2015 11:04 PM

Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 23:04:50 -0500

God exist! Arguments are unnecessary! Every human decides for themselves. Choose wisely child!

Response by SSgt Cliff Bowers made Jan 10 at 2017 7:18 AM

SSgt Cliff Bowers — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:18:48 -0500

Silly question. It is not of matter of fact, it is a matter of faith and ONLY you can answer the question.

Response by CW4 Jimmy Gomez made Jan 10 at 2017 7:19 AM

CW4 Jimmy Gomez — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:19:01 -0500

Here's one argument, You don't have to go far to find God. You just have to open your eyes.
But, I'm surprised no one brings up or questions the existence of Satan. I guess it's because his existence is easily seen on every news channel.

Well, enjoy.

How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind
Dr. Benjamin Wiker
Antony Flew

EDITOR'S NOTE: For the last half of the twentieth century, Antony Flew (1923-2010) was the world's most famous atheist. Long before Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Sam Harris began taking swipes at religion, Flew was the preeminent spokesman for unbelief.
However in 2004, he shocked the world by announcing he had come to believe in God. While never embracing Christianity—Flew only believed in the deistic, Aristotelian conception of God—he became one of the most high-profile and surprising atheist converts. In 2007, he recounted his conversion in a book titled There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind. Some critics suggested Flew's mental capacity had declined and therefore we should question the credibility of his conversion. Others hailed Flew's book as a legitimate and landmark publication.
A couple months before the book's release, Flew sat down with Strange Notions contributor Dr. Benjamin Wiker for an interview about his book, his conversion, and the reasons that led him to God. Read below and enjoy!

Dr. Benjamin Wiker: You say in There is a God, that "it may well be that no one is as surprised as I am that my exploration of the Divine has after all these years turned from denial...to discovery." Everyone else was certainly very surprised as well, perhaps all the more so since on our end, it seemed so sudden. But in There is a God, we find that it was actually a very gradual process—a "two decade migration," as you call it. God was the conclusion of a rather long argument, then. But wasn't there a point in the "argument" where you found yourself suddenly surprised by the realization that "There is a God" after all? So that, in some sense, you really did "hear a Voice that says" in the evidence itself "'Can you hear me now?'"
Antony Flew: There were two factors in particular that were decisive. One was my growing empathy with the insight of Einstein and other noted scientists that there had to be an Intelligence behind the integrated complexity of the physical Universe. The second was my own insight that the integrated complexity of life itself—which is far more complex than the physical Universe—can only be explained in terms of an Intelligent Source. I believe that the origin of life and reproduction simply cannot be explained from a biological standpoint despite numerous efforts to do so. With every passing year, the more that was discovered about the richness and inherent intelligence of life, the less it seemed likely that a chemical soup could magically generate the genetic code. The difference between life and non-life, it became apparent to me, was ontological and not chemical. The best confirmation of this radical gulf is Richard Dawkins' comical effort to argue in The God Delusion that the origin of life can be attributed to a "lucky chance." If that's the best argument you have, then the game is over. No, I did not hear a Voice. It was the evidence itself that led me to this conclusion.
Wiker: You are famous for arguing for a presumption of atheism, i.e., as far as arguments for and against the existence of God, the burden of proof lies with the theist. Given that you believe that you only followed the evidence where it led, and it led to theism, it would seem that things have now gone the other way, so that the burden of proof lies with the atheist. He must prove that God doesn't exist. What are your thoughts on that?
There Is a GodFlew: I note in my book that some philosophers indeed have argued in the past that the burden of proof is on the atheist. I think the origins of the laws of nature and of life and the Universe point clearly to an intelligent Source. The burden of proof is on those who argue to the contrary.
Wiker: As for evidence, you cite a lot of the most recent science, yet you remark that your discovery of the Divine did not come through "experiments and equations," but rather, "through an understanding of the structures they unveil and map." Could you explain? Does that mean that the evidence that led you to God is not really, at heart, scientific?
Flew: It was empirical evidence, the evidence uncovered by the sciences. But it was a philosophical inference drawn from the evidence. Scientists as scientists cannot make these kinds of philosophical inferences. They have to speak as philosophers when they study the philosophical implications of empirical evidence.
Wiker: You are obviously aware of the spate of recent books by such atheists as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. They think that those who believe in God are behind the times. But you seem to be politely asserting that they are ones who are behind the times, insofar as the latest scientific evidence tends strongly toward—or perhaps even demonstrates—a theistic conclusion. Is that a fair assessment of your position?
Flew: Yes, indeed. I would add that Dawkins is selective to the point of dishonesty when he cites the views of scientists on the philosophical implications of the scientific data.
Two noted philosophers, one an agnostic (Anthony Kenny) and the other an atheist (Thomas Nagel), recently pointed out that Dawkins has failed to address three major issues that ground the rational case for God. As it happens, these are the very same issues that had driven me to accept the existence of a God: the laws of nature, life with its teleological organization, and the existence of the Universe.
Wiker: You point out that the existence of God and the existence of evil are actually two different issues, which would therefore require two distinct investigations. But in the popular literature—even in much of the philosophical literature—the two issues are regularly conflated. Especially among atheists, the presumption is that the non-existence of God simply follows upon the existence of evil. What is the danger of such conflation? How as a theist do you now respond?
Flew: I should clarify that I am a deist. I do not accept any claim of divine revelation though I would be happy to study any such claim (and continue to do so in the case of Christianity). For the deist, the existence of evil does not pose a problem because the deist God does not intervene in the affairs of the world. The religious theist, of course, can turn to the free-will defense (in fact I am the one who first coined the phrase free-will defense). Another relatively recent change in my philosophical views is my affirmation of the freedom of the will.
Wiker: According to There is a God, you are not what might be called a "thin theist," that is, the evidence led you not merely to accept that there is a "cause" of nature, but "to accept the existence of a self-existent, immutable, immaterial, omnipotent, and omniscient Being." How far away are you, then, from accepting this Being as a person rather than a set of characteristics, however accurate they may be? (I'm thinking of C. S. Lewis' remark that a big turning point for him, in accepting Christianity, was in realizing that God was not a "place"—a set of characteristics, like a landscape—but a person.)
Flew: I accept the God of Aristotle who shares all the attributes you cite. Like Lewis I believe that God is a person but not the sort of person with whom you can have a talk. It is the ultimate being, the Creator of the Universe.
Wiker: Do you plan to write a follow-up book to There is a God?
Flew: As I said in opening the book, this is my last will and testament.

Response by SGT James Colwell made Jan 10 at 2017 10:23 AM

SGT James Colwell — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:23:31 -0500

Look at the intricacy of the human eye and tell me with a straight face that was an accident. Omnibenevolence is a tricky one. Perfect goodness and perfect love when taken in context of the state of the world is hard to define. Goodness and love, for far too many people means "the quality of being kind and generous towards everyone and everything". Perfect goodness or perfect love does NOT mean going along with everything a person says or does. Those two qualities sometimes requires saying and doing the hard things for a person's best interests. Good question, but difficult to answer without stating beliefs.

Response by SFC James Tihanyi made Jan 10 at 2017 7:23 PM

SFC James Tihanyi — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:23:13 -0500

Our Thomas Paine wrote some 240 years ago, "God Gave us Reason not Religion. "That is as true today as it was in the 18th century. religion evolved, has its roots, in our ancestors primitive, superstitious, uncivilized, uneducated existence. They were not able to explain simple occurrences around them, rain, sunshine, the Moon, the Sun, stars, thunder and lightening, or the menstrual cycles of the females, etc. Some, 'Control Freaks' like, 'Witch doctors', 'Shamans' and others, stepped forward and provided explanations, the ignorant masses, have embraced some of those, 'fairy tales', hence the beginnings of, "Religion". Moses, Mohamed, Joseph Smith and other, "Charlatans" followed. The major Religions, Abrahamic, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, was either forced upon the trusting, uneducated, superstitious, brainwashed masses, or they suffered because they were forbidden to join in, were ostracized. All through the ages, to this day, Religion has caused the greatest conflict and suffering for Mankind, until the 20th century when the Marxist-Bolshevik-Communist and Fascist Idealogies have clashed. Today we have Zionism, that has its roots in the, barbaric-bloody Torah- Old Testament, a hearsay mythical fairy tale, where Moses is said to have had a, 'Direct, Face to Face meeting/conversation with, Yahweh, and now we have the, "Chosen People"! What FARCE! By the way, the 'Chosen People' myth-story originated from the, "Sumerians', one of their king, 'Gilgamesh', was chosen by the Gods to be saved from a 'Great Flood' (remember, that story?), well this happened 3thousand BC., the Hebrews adopted it around 15 hundred BC, when they were in Babylonian captivity, the 'Gilgamesh Saga', was adopted by the Babylonians, the Hebrews have taken it from them! What is the origin of the name/word, 'HEBREW'? In the Old Egyptian tongue its meaning was something like, "a Trespasser", someone who wasn't a liked or desired to be, in the neighborhood! Interesting?

Response by SCPO Penny Douphinett made Jan 11 at 2017 2:18 PM

SCPO Penny Douphinett — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:18:15 -0500

To be honest, I struggle. I understand personal will/choice, but when things like the Holocaust, wars, Bosnia, Rwanda, 9/11 happen, I can't help but ask, where was God? When my son died, I asked and asked - why would God allow him to die, he was a good man and I loved him so much. So much evil happens to good people. Yet, I have held my 4 newborn babies in my arms and can't help but believe in miracles as well as biology. In general, I believe in God, but like Thomas, I can be a doubter. I can also be brutally honest with myself and apparently all of you on RP as well. I think it is the various religions and their men and women which causes problems for all of us, not God.

If you want to flame me for my statements, don't bother, please. It may make you feel good, but won't make me feel bad.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Jan 31 at 2017 8:36 AM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:36:31 -0500

As a Disciple of the Most High and Living GOD, I could quote scripture and compare it to the happenings to History to prove HIS existence, and in turn the existence of the Holy Trinity. BUT
I will make it very simple...
IF GOD does not exist, WHY do the Atheists spend so much time and money, trying to prove that someone that they do not believe in does not exist? WHY would they care what anyone else thinks? The answer is, They do know that HE exists. and they hate the fact that Christians and Jews know that He LIVES! and it galls them because they cannot or will not take the time to get to know HIM and love HIM. It is just that simple

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Jan 31 at 2017 11:06 AM

CPO Bill Penrod — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:06:08 -0500

I guess you might say the True God is all of them.......

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Jan 31 at 2017 11:09 AM

CPO Bill Penrod — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:09:20 -0500

I preferred to work with the Marines the Army always wanted favors.....

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 31 at 2017 1:25 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:25:44 -0500

It is not up to the Military nor us to prove His existence. Religion (belief's) have been and should be a personal thing- you either believe or not, it's your call. Also how, who you believe in is your call. If you want to debate religion, then go to a church/mosque/synagogue, wherever and learn/debate. This should not be the site for this.

Response by SSG Gerald King made Jan 31 at 2017 2:46 PM

SSG Gerald King — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 14:46:13 -0500

I cannot believe that people still accept this fairy tale of some great god. The only reason people create gods is because of their fear of dying. They do not want to accept that when they die, that is it. One and done. You are no more. You are not going to see your loved ones again. When they are dead - they are dead. End of story.

Response by CPT Wes Marsh made Feb 1 at 2017 2:21 PM

CPT Wes Marsh — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 14:21:52 -0500

Does God exist? Which gives you greater comfort, believing in a universal power greater than yourself or not?

Response by CPL Leslie Andrews made Feb 1 at 2017 9:01 PM

CPL Leslie Andrews — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 21:01:58 -0500

I have found comfort & strength in my belief. I also know a lot of Vets who came to know God in a fox hole.

Response by SGT James Colwell made Feb 23 at 2017 12:42 PM

SGT James Colwell — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 12:42:31 -0500

Arguing for or against the existence of God is a fine philosophical debate. Actually arguing for the existence of God with a person who will not acknowledge the possibility is an exercise in futility until said person acknowledges that possibility. Being on the side that professes the existence of God (the God of the Bible) I have narrowed it down to four simple options.
1. If you believe there is no God and there is no God, you lose nothing.
2. If you believe there is a God and there is no God, you lose nothing.
3. If you believe there is no God and there is a God, you lose everything for eternity.
4. If you believe there is a God and there is a God, you stand to gain everything.

Many don't believe there is a God, and that is their right. In looking at these four options, if for no other reason than selfish motives, I would choose to believe in God. Because of what I have studied in the Bible and have experienced in my own life and seen in other's lives, I believe there is a God in Heaven who has deemed me worthy of salvation and has plucked me out of the bondage of sin, simply because He is God, and not because of any great deed on my part, but despite the depravity of my life. Belief in God is not based solely on an intellectual investigation into the physical or even metaphysical evidence. It is a faith-based knowledge as evidenced by Scripture- "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1 ESV).

Response by SSG William Jones made Feb 23 at 2017 9:18 PM

SSG William Jones — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 21:18:52 -0500

https://billygraham.org/answer/how-can-you-be-so-sure-there-is-a-god-since-science-hasnt-proven-his-existence/

How can you be so sure there is a God, since science hasn't proven His existence?

The existence of God cannot be proven in a laboratory or through the complicated mechanisms of logic. Neither can love, nor beauty, nor happiness, but that does not mean they are not real.

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Feb 24 at 2017 12:36 PM

TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:36:14 -0500

Does evil exist? Does it not come from satan, well than where?

Response by SSG Mike Schneider made Mar 2 at 2017 11:26 PM

SSG Mike Schneider — Thu, 02 Mar 2017 23:26:43 -0500

As a PhD professor, I'm trained to look at the whole equation- and science has answered most of the questions- but not all. Science can't answer the tough questions like how we came into existence- how we evolved so quickly (virtually instantly) when other things took literally millions of years. A good movie to watch would be "Is God Dead" and it really sheds light the answer. Granted, it is a drama and produced by religious people, but the arguments are still sound.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Mar 12 at 2017 1:00 AM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Sun, 12 Mar 2017 01:00:43 -0500

Somewhere I heard that God exists in every foxhole and someday I'll remember to ask someone who's been in one.

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Mar 16 at 2017 4:30 PM

SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:30:15 -0400

I'm a believer, and will continue to trust, and reverence the Lord. He exists, Jesus is real, and so is the Holy Spirit. I have a PhD in The science of Psychology. Even this type of science will not sway my beliefs. Blessings.

Response by SP5 Robert Ruck made Mar 19 at 2017 3:50 PM

SP5 Robert Ruck — Sun, 19 Mar 2017 15:50:11 -0400

Where and when did life begin? Who is responsible for the original life force on this planet or anywhere else in the universe. From a hot mass of lava and rock life just happened? Not likely.

Response by Daniel McEleney made Mar 21 at 2017 8:51 AM

Daniel McEleney — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:51:21 -0400

Just look around and see the miracles that happen around us everyday, Plus the truly outstanding miracles, that we hear about, A preseason who survives a deadly illness or injury, with no serious consequences

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 21 at 2017 2:51 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:51:58 -0400

I believe that God, His Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exists. My belief came out of study and conviction of my sin. I believe that one day, when this earthly body gives up and He calls me home, I will be forever worshipping Him in Heaven and hopefully casting crowns at His feet. I believe all prayers are answered when offered up with a humble heart. They may not be answered with the answer we are looking for but they are answered. God is never late...always on time!!! He has protected me and lifted me up when I was at my darkest points in life.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Mar 21 at 2017 9:22 PM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 21:22:02 -0400

I keep coming back to this, seeing more and more people express their beliefs, and to quote sripture Romans 1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools. Now I will not call anyone a fool here but there are some who clain all sorts of things about Physics, Well lets go to the one who would know the best about things in Physoce. Albert Einstein. If anyone remembers his little equasion E=Mc2?? It made it so we could win WWII and propel Ships around the world for years and power our homes and all sorts of wonerful things but it also prooves the existance of GOD. Check out what the Huffington Post (A liberal Blog) had to say about the existance of GOD. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/albert-einstein-and-the-s_b_800936.html

And as a capper on this, and old story that was finally put in Video form about Old Albert. watch it at your leisure.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0LEVjQzztFYtH4AQUgPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?p=Albert+Einstein%27s+proof+of+the+existence+of+GOD&tnr=21&vid=bfdcbee9303fdfe91c95d5808b890b52&l=79&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP.m0uUisdYeeRqqnVofywTCwEoDO%26pid%3D15.1&sigi=124hl7qql&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DtDmDYUKG08s&sigr=11b419ji3&tt=b&tit=Albert+Einstein+Proves+That+God+Exists&sigt=116frdg57&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3Fp%3DAlbert%2BEinstein%2527s%2Bproof%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bexistance%2Bof%2BGOD%26type%3Dlvs__webcompa__1_0__ya__ch_WCYID10120__161025__yaff%26hspart%3Dlvs%26hsimp%3Dyhs-awc%26fr%3Dyhs-lvs-awc%26ei%3DUTF-8&sigb=161ijgbj7&hspart=lvs&hsimp=yhs-awc

Albert Einstein And The Scientific Proof Of 'God'

As we leave the season when many have celebrated the birth of "The son of G_d", perhaps we might momentarily stop our shopping mall worship ceremonies an...

Response by Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire made Apr 25 at 2017 9:54 AM

Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:54:14 -0400

The majority of our world says, "no"! Its all about "FAITH"! A person has to be "touched/readied" by God "for the need to know Jesus Christ. Your responsible for your choice(s) in your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Apr 27 at 2017 8:04 PM

SCPO Morris Ramsey — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:04:15 -0400

Maj Marty Hogan,LTC Stephen F.,SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all creatures most miserable. Corinthians 15:19. - Eternity is a long time. Do restrict your beliefs to this life. We are going to spend an eternity with God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas

Response by CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern made Apr 27 at 2017 10:01 PM

CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 22:01:28 -0400

I would rather believe in God throughout my life, then, when I die if there is nothing, I have lost nothing and would never know.

If I lived my life never believing in God then when I died, and there really is a God, and he asks why I did not believe, I have lost everything and will know what I lost for eternity.

Response by PFC Roger Goff made Apr 27 at 2017 11:48 PM

PFC Roger Goff — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:48:27 -0400

Intelligent design seems to be responsible for life on this planet. To think that all of life is purely random seems irresponsible.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Apr 28 at 2017 9:02 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:02:30 -0400

There is a GOD or something out there because I went through 4 combat operations and I have great little girl to share that experience with and she can share it with her family some day. She goes to Catholic school and believes in the Faith of GOD and the creator. He made me a massager when I came from combat. I have PTSD I think I said enough.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Apr 28 at 2017 9:11 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:11:02 -0400

Yes, there is GOD or something that watches over us all the time, I did 4 combat tours and I have a great little girl I can share the experience with and she can share the same experience with her family in the future. I think I was meant to be a special messenger from the battlefield because I have PTSD and I don't think I have to say anymore.

Response by PO1 Joseph Glennon made May 4 at 2017 7:01 PM

PO1 Joseph Glennon — Thu, 04 May 2017 19:01:05 -0400

There are many laws of science and nature that we think we know, all of which point to the necessity of a Creator.
Such as momentum and inertia - things at rest tend to stay at rest until acted on by a (greater) force. Things in motion tend to remain in motion until they meet a greater force.
Thermodynamics - things get less complicated / complex over time (that kind of kills the theories of evolution right there).
Sterilization - an environment that can not support life will not support life.
Life comes from life, it does not spontaneously happen (pretty much all of our medical and food-prep science relies on this.
Types of animals only spawn the same types of animals (this is different that creating different breeds within a type).
Mutations are usually sterile (unable to procreate), and the majority of mutations that survive birth / infancy are killed or die before becoming old enough to be part of the gene pool.

The requirements of not only primary, but secondary and tertiary gravitational forces for this ball to support life...

Once we see that science requires an outside force to cause things to happen, then we can begin to study and accept that there *is* such a force.

Some folks (like Hawking) use circular logic to explain why there's not a God - but, he wouldn't accept circular logic in the explanation of any other known quantity / test / field; so it's duplicitous for him to use it to deny the evidences of a Creator, considering the science that we do understand requires one.

Response by SFC James Tihanyi made May 11 at 2017 5:56 PM

SFC James Tihanyi — Thu, 11 May 2017 17:56:56 -0400

GOD, Yahweh, Allah is the creation of our primitive, superstitious, clueless ancestors. All those creatures, forms are Male, Father, Lord etc., the result of paternalistic influences all through the ages. There is a, 'Supreme Being' I believe in that. It is GOD, CREATOR, I call, "The Universal Singularity", the Universe Itself! IT, has no GENDER!! Out of IT's Labors have we, Humans, came, as have the entire Universe Itself! That Entity, GOD, Creator, Universal Singularity, gave us, REASON not RELIGION! Religion has been made up by CHARLATANS! Moses, Mohamed, Joseph Smith, who claim that they had a revelation, a date, with some being, somewhere and that they are the messengers from that Creature, what B.S. These , 'Control Freaks' have set up religion to divide and control the primitive, trusting masses of humanity. The Universe, our Creator, has given us one, 'Gift', that is also the 'greatest Burden' for us all! FREE WILL! Therefor we are, all of us, responsible for ALL of our ACTIONS, toward our environment and our fellow passengers on this beautiful Planet of ours! the 'Golden Rule' IS, "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR LIKE THY SELVES." JESUS preached that! He didn't create Christianity, there were others come 300 years after his death that, Christianity was forced upon the people as a, "State Religion" Constantin the Great, of the Eastern Roman Empire, was that Control Freak!!

Response by SFC James Tihanyi made Jun 1 at 2017 7:04 PM

SFC James Tihanyi — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 19:04:24 -0400

GOD-Creator, I call "The Universal Singularity." It is the Universe itself, we are part of it. The Creator/God, has NO GENDER! IT is not your Lord, Father, King etc. It is an 'IT'. IT has entrusted us with, "FREE WILL." That is to say, we are responsible for ALL of our Actions, or non Actions, with/versus, our fellow travelers, on this beautiful Planet. GOOD and EVIL, is within us! IT, gave the decision as a Gift for us, and we are free to accommodate our Brothers and Sisters on Earth, as friends, or enemies. It is therefor a great, 'Burden', on our shoulders. Thomas Paine stated some 240 years ago; "GOD GAVE US REASON not RELIGION." The CONTROL FREAKS, Charlatans amongst us, like MOSES, MOHAMED, JOSEPH SMITH and many others, have fabricated Religion, to, DIVIDE and CONTROL the ignorant, primitive, superstitious masses of Humanity. JESUS was a teacher, who said; supposedly? "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR LIKE THY SELVES!", Well, that one simple sentence is the, "GOLDEN RULE." that we all should take to our hearts and live by and interact, with our fellow human beings. That is all we need to create, "PARADISE-HEAVEN on EARTH." There is no such place after we take our last breath! There is no HELL, that we can create right here and now, like the Middle East, WW1-WW2 and unfortunately we are going down a slippery slope toward WW3! GOD will not save us from that! Only WE can avoid such a conflagration, by our actions, now!!

Response by SPC Dan Goforth made Jun 8 at 2017 1:47 PM

SPC Dan Goforth — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:47:25 -0400

I thought I had answered this some time back, but I can't find my original reply, and this keeps popping up in my email, so I thought I'd revisit the subject, as a man of faith and science.

Science gives us reasonable certainty that this cosmos has a finite point of beginning, and that we are heading to a finite end via Big Freeze. The observations of science tell us that nothing can happen without cause, and that mass-energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transmuted. Therefore, the only scientific conclusion is that an external force is required for this cosmos to exist. That is the end of the scientific part of this discussion.

Now, for the faith portion, it is an open acknowledgment that anything beyond an expansion of what I said above is a statement of faith. There very well could be an infinite number of cosmi, or two super branes that collide every few trillion years, or any number of reasonable explanations of how this all exists. My statement of faith begins with John 1:1-3: In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God; He was in the beginning with God. And everything that was made was made through Him, and nothing that was made was not made through Him.

It really is that simple, that we clearly come from somewhere, and what we believe about that somewhere is faith, and therefore we need to respect other people's beliefs about the origins of the cosmos.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jun 8 at 2017 2:45 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:45:59 -0400

For most people God is a reason not to fear the unknown, the inevitable; death. God hands you an out and a structure by which you can obtain paradise or Hell. Right and wrong are created in order to keep Man from doing what is natural; destroying ourselves.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Jun 29 at 2017 8:05 PM

SPC Alejandro Martinez — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 20:05:13 -0400

Yes.

Response by SSG Nana Togonmessie Abloklu Danfira Adedufira made Jul 22 at 2018 7:49 PM

SSG Nana Togonmessie Abloklu Danfira Adedufira — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 19:49:17 -0400

The ancient wisdom of Afa/Ifa and Amengansie says yes, there is a 'God' that is
"...an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent Supreme Being -- the eternally and necessarily extant Creator of the universe..."
We also hold that this being is incomprehensible, both transcendent and immanent and that to explain it to a person is like trying to make sense of a cup to fish.