Does Hollering at Service Members in Basic Training foster professionalism?

2014-11-27T11:22:47-05:00

Sometimes the military seems to take on traits of a dysfunctional family. We were hollered at when we were new, so now we holler at the new Service members. Is there any shred of evidence that hollering at new Service Members makes them better prepared for anything, or do we just do it because that's the way it has always been done?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 12:20 PM

2014-11-27T12:20:53-05:00

The Bing dictionary defines "foster" as encouraging the development of something. So, maybe the haranguing does "foster" professionalism because it develops mental toughness, the bond of shared misery, and the ability to adapt and overcome. These qualities are all elements of military professionalism.

Negative reinforcement is a powerful motivator.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 2:58 PM

2014-11-27T14:58:03-05:00

i came through basic and got yelled at, called names, smoked at rediculouse times, for crazy reasons or none at all and pushed till i puked. when i got to my unit if an NCO spoke to me i was at parade rest with an apropriate respectfull responce. the green horn FNGs i get in my unit fresh out of training now a days come in thinking that i and other NCOs are their best friends and will stand there all all relaxed speaking like there back on the block. so yes there is something to be said of the value of harsh treatment in intial training.

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made Nov 27 at 2014 3:33 PM

2014-11-27T15:33:34-05:00

We may have forgotten the reasons why this happens in basic. I personally believe, and I'm pretty sure the point of it is, to break down the Soldier to a point in which they are a moldable, plyable, teachable person. People come in to the military with such diverse backgrounds and upbringings that the Army has to start over, and in order to start over you have to bring that new troop down to zero.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Nov 27 at 2014 3:37 PM

2014-11-27T15:37:28-05:00

OF COURSE IT DOES! ARE YOU CRAZY? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TALKING TO?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 3:45 PM

2014-11-27T15:45:37-05:00

No. It fosters resilience. It fosters the ability to deal with stress, which is something many new recruits haven't experienced before, but they are about to enter a profession where it is a necessary part of the chaos that is war. If we were in the business of making inflatable bouncy houses, this might be an issue...but we're not. Yell all the time...no. Induce stress without physically harming someone. That's challenging. You aren't going to get it through classes about how to deal with stress. You get resilience from pain, from deprivation, from disease and heartache and blood and sweat and tears. Resilience doesn't come from happiness or butterflies or unicorns. It comes from the fire that forges steel into something useful. Does it make one professional, no. We are in a business where we kill people for a living. We...kill...people. By blowing them into smaller chunks, by ripping holes in their bodies with high velocity rounds, by choking them to death with our bare hands at times. If you can't deal with the stress induced at basic training, you've made a horrible life decision...and maybe you'll find that out before you have to make a significant choice on a battlefield somewhere.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Nov 27 at 2014 3:46 PM

2014-11-27T15:46:12-05:00

I heard yelling was discouraged in army basic anyway. Don't y'all have stress cards now?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 7:24 PM

2014-11-27T19:24:23-05:00

In Marine boot camp it's just part of the total process of breaking down recruits. And then building them back up from scratch to become Marines.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 11:21 PM

2014-11-27T23:21:03-05:00

It's more like a right of passage, question is, when does it end? Traditions die hard in organizations such as ours. For example, pinnings, hazings, and initiations. No one complains, because we all go through it

Response by SGT Aaron Dumbrow made Nov 27 at 2014 11:31 PM

2014-11-27T23:31:28-05:00

Maybe it is time we stopped coddling soldiers and started training them again. We were yelled at, smoked and even knocked around a few times and it made us better soldiers for it. I am the man I am today professionally thanks to some drill sergeants who cared enough to train me properly. Let's stop whining and get back to what matters.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Nov 27 at 2014 11:40 PM

2014-11-27T23:40:12-05:00

I agree 100% with COL Private RallyPoint Member and @SFC Jerry Crouch

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2014 12:52 AM

2014-11-28T00:52:39-05:00

Does it foster anything? No. However, as LTC Halvorson pointed out, it builds resilience. I was yelled at, smoked to no end, and got my nose broken twice by my drills. Do I complain? No. I am proud to have had the experience, and appreciate the lack of sympathy from those training me because it made me a stronger, more proficient soldier. To this day, I can look back and acknowledge that though we pushed the regs a few times in the pursuit of quality training, I am now a stronger, faster, leaner, meaner infantry machine because my drills weren't afraid to scare the living crap out of us.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Nov 28 at 2014 11:33 AM

2014-11-28T11:33:43-05:00

Hell yeah it does!!! tears us down and makes lean mean fighting machines!!! destroys any weakness we may have prior to becoming a soldier, shows everyone we are all the same and no one is better than the next during boot camp, grows some damn fine soldiers who are willing to learn and can handle stress even though its nothing compared to stress of actual combat. I thought about changing my name to PVT sh*t head I was called it so much !!! HOOOOOOOOOO Fn Rahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Response by 1SG Paul Russell made Nov 28 at 2014 12:12 PM

2014-11-28T12:12:10-05:00

There has to be some pruning before there there can be growth.

Response by SFC Matthew Parker made Nov 28 at 2014 12:25 PM

2014-11-28T12:25:08-05:00

SSG Gibbs,
The suicide rate and rates of UCMJs is up which started prior to 9-11 and I would submit a direct result of the changes in basic recruit training but also because the changes in society in general.

We give trophy's and medals to everyone now just for participating and don't reward superior effort. Its ok to lose.
We are texting and not talking in person which damages our ability to communicate and understand human interactions. No yelling, no arguments, no stress.
And we don't discipline children anymore, I don't mean hit or beat, I mean hold accountable for their actions.

So against these new norms of non conflict tell me how we determine a recruits ability to handle stress if we don't stress them in training? Yelling is a proven way to break down barriers, it causes stress often never experienced before and helps the instructors to take control of the recruits. Yelling is an art form and I should have earned an Oscar award from Hollywood for many of my performances. The pitch, volume, tone and word selection helps to break down barriers and is not just being mean or abusive.

Suicide can be a result of a character, emotional or mental weakness, an inability to deal with a problem or to see a solution. To stop suicide in the services I think we need better leadership at the squad level and to stress recruits beyond anything they have ever faced before. Push recruits physically and mentally to the breaking point and then take them one step beyond. Yelling is a very simple and effective way of doing that initially until the recruit no longer stresses over a few loud words and then you move on to something else.

You say you were used to being treated like crap before you joined, Well I as a instructor or leader need to know you had a difficult childhood and how it affects your thinking and ability to serve as part of a team. Yelling will affect you differently and I will see that.

Its not about professionalism, its about discipline.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2014 2:02 PM

2014-11-28T14:02:33-05:00

Basic Training was a shocker for me. I was between my Jr and Sr year of college when I went to Ft. Leonard Wood for BCT. I absolutey hated getting yelled out....BUT.....

Here is what Basic Training did for me (INCLUDING THE YELLING).
-Broke me down from that party hearty fraternity boy
-Broke me away from my bad habits
-Taught me to listen the first time OR someone could die
-Taught me to respect the command
-Made me know my Left from my Right
-Taught me to be squared away at all times
-Taught me that The Drill Sergeants really weren't bad people, it was just their jobs
-Made me a solider

No one likes being yelled at, or pushed or ridiculed. However, and from my perspective, it was necessary in order to bring a "shock" to my system/world as I knew it, break me down, and rebuild me into a US Army Soldier.

The Drill Sergeants job is a tough one. You have people from all walks of life and all types of attitudes and thought structures. Yelling and screaming is an essential piece of gaining their attention quickly...putting the fear of God into them (so to speak)...and making sure the soldiers do what they have to do and not get injured in the process.

All I can end with is this...

Did I like being screamed at? No. Was it essential for my training? Yes. Would I do it all over again? Absolutely.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2014 2:05 PM

2014-11-28T14:05:51-05:00

For the most part every new recruit is coming from a different background. Whether they come from a good background or a not so good background it has been proven to work. Some new recruits have a thick skull to get through. I noticed this first hand going through basic. I can say I don't like being screamed at but it helps you perform. It teaches you to work in somewhat of a stressful environment which is needed in this profession.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2014 4:33 PM

2014-11-28T16:33:37-05:00

To ME, it's very unprofessional PERIOD!!!!

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Nov 28 at 2014 5:31 PM

2014-11-28T17:31:01-05:00

Brand new former civilians just off the bus must be assaulted verbally (at least) in order to get their complete and undivided attention. Especially early in the morning.

If toward the end of the basic training cycle you are still yelling very much, either you don't quite know what you are doing, or this really IS the sorriest herd of trainees ever seen.

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Nov 28 at 2014 7:23 PM

2014-11-28T19:23:08-05:00

In order to create a warrior you must first break him/her down so the building process can begin. Dealing with extreme stress is common in our profession and young troops need to be indoctrinated early. This eventually leads to building confidence and overcoming fear in adverse situations. The process may not be pretty but it is effective.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Nov 29 at 2014 12:29 AM

2014-11-29T00:29:38-05:00

It's supposed to foster fear and the desire to do as your told so they don't yell at you again. I was a bit older when I enlisted, I listened to what they were yelling but ignored the yelling it's self. It worked damn good on the younger men.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Nov 29 at 2014 1:46 AM

2014-11-29T01:46:19-05:00

SSG Gibbs, Sometimes they just CAN'T HEAR YOU!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 2:00 AM

2014-11-29T02:00:18-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, the point of the yelling in Basic is that trainees have to learn how to perform under pressure/stress, since they will have to do so on the battlefield in order to stay in the fight. If they only learn how to perform in calm training situations, they will not be nearly as well prepared to perform in real world life-or-death situations, and the Army would be doing them and those that depend on them a great disservice. Short of constantly firing rounds near trainees all the time, the cheapest/most efficient way of producing pressurized/stressful situations in training is yelling.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 9:27 AM

2014-11-29T09:27:06-05:00

COL Private RallyPoint Member said a mouthful but that is EXACTLY how I feel. This "new Army" is getting way to soft...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 9:54 AM

2014-11-29T09:54:54-05:00

It's the best way to teach a recruit how to operate under incredible stress. It's even more important today than ever since our culture encourages so much huggy feel good mentoring. For most of them this is the first time they have been exposed to this kind of stress. The pussification of American kids will lead to the pussification of its military if we start hugging it out with them when their feelings get hurt or they feel stressed out.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 12:40 PM

2014-11-29T12:40:32-05:00

It's part of breaking them down and inducing stress into them. I told my soldiers that if you get upset over us yelling or the occasional swear word or whatever, then you certainly will not be able to put up with combat no matter what your Mos is.

Response by SPC Alan Cavalier made Nov 29 at 2014 4:20 PM

2014-11-29T16:20:52-05:00

Let us not forget what basic training is for, to learn the basic skills one needs to operate generally issued equipment, basic courtesy and customs, the basics of surviving on the battlefield AND to change how we as soldiers need to think and react. The Army (or other services) doesn't yell or make us drop or use any other "abuses" to break our will, but to change our attitudes from "me" to "we," not to change WHAT we think but HOW we think and how we react to commands.

Getting up and charging an oncoming bullet is probably the worlds most unnatural act. New recruits must relearn how to think & react, many times instantaneously.
A civilian coming into basic training usually says to himself "I did MY part" even though the mission failed. The yelling is used to change that to "WE completed the mission because Specialist Bill stepped up and helped PVT Joe and PFC John on their parts."
And the yelling is used to change reactions, not necessarily to change behavior (tho that can be a nice secondary result). In combat, when somebody yells "DOWN", you don't stop & think, hmmm that looks like a comfortable spot, I think I'll go over there and put myself into a nice little prine position. No, you GET DOWN IMMEDIATELY , no thinking, just reacting to the command. The yelling a DS does is to get you to stop thinking about the command and to start performing it almost before it is finished being said.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Nov 30 at 2014 3:12 AM

2014-11-30T03:12:42-05:00

It doesn't just foster the ability to handle stress. Sometimes yelling is the only thing a person understands.

Response by CW3 Chuck Huddleston made Nov 30 at 2014 12:10 PM

2014-11-30T12:10:11-05:00

Maybe not politically correct, but you gotta admit....it's funny as hell. Back in '62, we just corrected what was wrong and went on learning to be a soldier, no harm done. We didn't cry, pass out, wimper or complain to the chain of command, it just didn't matter that much. If you couldn't take a little harassment, you really needed to get out of the service before you had a breakdown of some sort and got medically discharged.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 1:01 PM

2014-11-30T13:01:11-05:00

I think that its used to induce stress and to weed out personel who can't handle the stresses of war.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 2:13 PM

2014-11-30T14:13:08-05:00

The objective of going through basic, besides training skills, is to break down the individual and bring them back as a team. This would also be a great time to identify those Soldiers who are not mentally fit for the Army and send them out before they break down the line and become a suicide statistic. If you cant handle someone screaming at you in a safe environment how are you going to handle it when people are trying to kill you? I think they have relaxed it more and should bring back the older days.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 3:25 PM

2014-11-30T15:25:58-05:00

Instant and willing obedience to orders..... Face, feet, face, feet ready move.

Response by SSG Robert Blair made Nov 30 at 2014 3:29 PM

2014-11-30T15:29:06-05:00

It's all about being able to respond to stress. "Mentally tough"

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Nov 30 at 2014 4:41 PM

2014-11-30T16:41:13-05:00

My wife wondered the same thing watching Chef Gordon Ramsey assail his candidates on Hell's Kitchen. I laughed and explained that he was using the same technique that my BCT drill sergeant and OCS tac' officer used to prepare me for combat. The parallels are interesting. Ramsey even refers to his kitchen staff as a brigade. Ultimately, the winner of Hell's Kitchen will be responsible for running one of Ramsey's restaurants and he needs someone who can perform under pressure. Sure, all the contestants can cook, but can they deliver the same service when everything goes to hell in a handbasket.

Well, Ramsey can not more recreate the stresses of commanding a kitchen brigade than our training officers could recreate the stresses of combat, but they could try and try they did. Thank God they did.

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Nov 30 at 2014 4:48 PM

2014-11-30T16:48:10-05:00

Absolutely. Everyone else's opinions seem to fall in line with mine, so all I will add is that I wish I could holler at service members on duty to this day! In 20 years, I can think of a dozen situations where a single session of wall-to-wall counseling would have done a lot of good for a military member with "instant professionalism correction". Instead, I had to drip in "professionalism motivation" little by little like an intravenous drip for a patient on life support, which was a drain on resources that could have been used for spreading democracy 2,000 pounds at a time or drilling 5.56 mm holes in terrorists.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 4:54 PM

2014-11-30T16:54:58-05:00

Oh boy, where to start. First, I just got off the trail, so I have an inside view on the subject.

Next, I'll start outlining the benefits of the screaming, in no particular order. 1) Identify the weak. Some kids have never faced adversity, never had a harsh word spoken to them, never had someone in their face with a raised voice. So many times, I would tell and they would start crying, or shut down and be unable to function. If we identify them early enough, we can then work to build that soldier up. Sometimes, these turned out to be my best troops.
2) Remove the hopeless. Along with the above point, sometimes you'll identify those that are just too weak, or too rebellious. If they can't handle yelling without quitting, they'll certainly quit under fire. Or if they rebel and fight back against a yelling Drill, they'll most likely disobey orders when it counts. In either case, get rid of them; guaranteed that there is someone else out there worthy who is fighting for that slot in our ranks.
3) induce stress. Yelling induces our basic human instincts of fight, flight, or freeze. We yell to force this reaction on these kids while they're still"young" and malleable. If we force them into one of those instinctual reactions, we can teach them to fight their instincts so that they can operate as a soldier needs to when it's hostile fire causing the reaction.
4) I could go on, but this is long enough as it is.

Last, I'll argue against the norm. Yelling DOES promote professionalism. Why? Because if you can be a leader who can yell for good reasons (like stated above), without actually getting mad, and use it for a purpose, then it becomes a tool, a teaching method, that we can put in our professional toolbox. Could the same lessons be taught without yelling? Possibly. Would it be as effective? Arguably (not). But I'm not going to drive in a nail with the blunt end of a screwdriver when there is a tool that works better (a hammer).

I leave y'all with this: the above view point is coming from an intel guy, typically a "soft" branch. If I'm arguing yelling and it's merits, that's saying something. ;-)

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 5:04 PM

2014-11-30T17:04:50-05:00

It works great on the younger generation who feel they are entitled to everything. But at the same time, expressing disappointment works on some of us who didn't join at 18. It depends on the recruit. As long as those doing the training figure out who to yell at and who to be disappointed with, training goes smoothly. Last spring, when I was there, it looked like the MTI had it figured out quickly.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 5:33 PM

2014-11-30T17:33:13-05:00

They are not service members, they are not soldiers. They are worthless fucking civilians who are playing dress up and have not earned shit! Yes yell at them, yes smoke the living piss out of them, yes give the the 2 minute meal treatment, yes give them no more then four hours of sleep a night. This is how you weed out the weak, this is how you build warriors and not sniveling little bitches. I am so sick of receiving worthless sacks of flesh from basic training who cannot handle a simple thing like a BN run or a week in the field without calling IG.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Nov 30 at 2014 5:44 PM

2014-11-30T17:44:11-05:00

Not really. I just opted for a blank stare until it was over, as no replies were needed. I'm assuming the idea is to create as much chaos as possible for the recruit to work through, but it really doesn't do much as everyone knows its a act. But then again, I as 23 when I went through boot so maybe the general game plan wasn't built with me in mind.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 6:56 PM

2014-11-30T18:56:39-05:00

Do hollering at Soldiers in basic training foster professionalism? I came off of the trail about a year and a half ago. I would like to do my best to answer this question. Given the experience I have of being a Drill Sergeant. I think given the amount of time we have to get the trainees to leave the mindset of being a civilian and doing things independently, to the mindset of becoming a Soldier and working as a member of a team, sometimes yelling at Soldiers is VERY necessary. In most cases trainees respond quicker and faster when they have a short timeline to accomplish a mission, and when they don't meet the timeline given,they know that they will be yelled at or smoked. It sort of forces them to start working as a team quicker than they normally would. Now, something I did, once I noticed that they did start accomplishing the given task. I would praise them for working together as well as for accomplishing the task, especially when our Platoon was competing the other Platoons. After graduation, I would have sort of a informal gathering with my platoon, wishing them the best of luck in the Army,and also to inform them that all my yelling and smoking them, was simply to get them to graduation day, while making them Soldiers and more importantly better people.

Simply put, Hollering at the trainees is a means to an end. The end being that you are sending quality Soldiers into the Army, with the hopes of making the Army a better place.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 7:08 PM

2014-11-30T19:08:14-05:00

I'm not sure you can foster "professionalism" in basic training with a kid who was a civilian hours/days/weeks ago. Maybe build a sense of urgency, an instant obedience to orders, and even a bit of fear, but not professionalism.

It's too early in their career.

Response by SSgt Jonathan Torres made Nov 30 at 2014 7:11 PM

2014-11-30T19:11:35-05:00

I'm pretty sure that this question is one of those that doesn't quite make sense. Kind of like, does honking your horn cause other people to eat more spaghetti... of course the answer is no. Why ask anyway?

Response by SGT Alfred Cox made Nov 30 at 2014 7:58 PM

2014-11-30T19:58:03-05:00

Why did you even ask this question.. I mean cmon now... WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... do you pat your troops on the back and give them candy... tell them that they can be anything they want to be.... to ask questions when orders are given.. you must not be a line Soldier ... I bet you work in one of the S-shops

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 8:10 PM

2014-11-30T20:10:25-05:00

Pretty sure those r a couple of my drill sgts

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 8:19 PM

2014-11-30T20:19:52-05:00

its more of a added stress and chaos but i think its a good thing because if you cant handle yelling how are you gonna even handle any sort of stress that combat or deployment will bring more yelling at new privates at basic i say!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 8:59 PM

2014-11-30T20:59:03-05:00

If they can't take me yelling at them, then they won't be able to take enemy fire.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 9:23 PM

2014-11-30T21:23:36-05:00

As a 17-year old ADHD idiot at Fort Leonard Wood in 1986, I needed to get hollered at to get my head right. I would not be where I am now without the the Drill Sergeants of D-2-3 straightening my a$$ out.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Nov 30 at 2014 9:56 PM

2014-11-30T21:56:19-05:00

Ahhhhhhh....... I miss the days when they were more "hands on". THEN you really learned something...... OK I can't remember what it was but it had to be important.......

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 12:27 AM

2014-12-01T00:27:59-05:00

Professionalism is being misinterpreted by far too many in the army. I'm sure the first guy who coined the phrase "the profession of arms" wasn't thinking of prim and proper grunts. I would imagine that he was thinking about being professionals at our trade, as in the best at what we do. The quality NCO's in the army that yell and break Soldiers down are the first to correct a deficiency and build them back up. I'm tired of the leaf eaters misunderstanding the guidance of leaders past and congress entering into our domain because of an angry constituent. I'm sorry that little billy couldn't hack it Mrs. Taxpayer, but I'm not letting your sorry excuse for a son put others in danger because he's sensitive.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 1:24 AM

2014-12-01T01:24:12-05:00

This is the issue with discipline and that's the bottom line. Look what soldiers are able to do now in basic training! Damn near what they want and no hollering psshht! Ha my rear! I was a really ignorant pvt that didn't care bout much but through the yes of getting smoked and yelled at I learned my lesson and did a complete turn around and if it wasn't for those things I wouldn't be the man I am today to stand proudly say I serve and that I'm a father of two also a husband. We have pv2s running wild and do what they want and I have to talk to you be comforting and the whole nine basically spoon feed you? Don't get me wrong every soldier doesn't get the same approach from me but in the same sense it's some soldiers out there like I was that you have to scream at to get through to. It build character, obedience, and most of all (discipline) you tell me when you completely jacked something up or didn't listen one time and your NCO gave you a pretty good scuffing did you do it again? Regardless the answer next time you knew it was wrong to do it didn't you? It's like learning as a child you don't touch a stove! Why? Cause you been there done that if you hadn't touched it you wouldn't know it was not as a 20 yr old man. So same concept. Sorry for the rant this subject always makes my blood boil simple fix but we take the NCO's power more and more by the day.

Response by SSG Courtney Ellis made Dec 1 at 2014 9:02 AM

2014-12-01T09:02:09-05:00

No it fosters resiliency, this si necessary in various environments. Would you really want some young recruit who has never experienced any form of stress to the level of lives being on the line behind when it counts the most? If you can successfully navigate the levels of stress being thrown at you in basic or boot you may prove to be a valuable asset within the unit you transfer to.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 9:25 AM

2014-12-01T09:25:25-05:00

SSG Gibbs, funny you should mention the family thing. Having been humiliated a time or two by my Special Forces father, getting yelled at in Basic Training was nothing new. I just made believe that I was in a haunted house during Halloween--understanding that the DIs were playing a role to put us under stress.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 1 at 2014 9:30 AM

2014-12-01T09:30:12-05:00

I think most of us understand the point behind the yelling. Those that don't probably need to consider another career field.

Response by SPC Brian Jones made Dec 1 at 2014 10:09 AM

2014-12-01T10:09:21-05:00

In this world so many young people have no idea how to handle stress or why having a thick skin can be a good thing. Now throw in the possibility of being placed in combat. Yes yelling is needed imo they need to go back to be able to pop off the words they really want to say. So what if a recruit is called a dumbass. Better that they ate toughened up while in the training stage.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Dec 1 at 2014 10:41 AM

2014-12-01T10:41:01-05:00

I suppose some feel that it somehow teaches a soldier how to deal with adversity. I personally don't believe that to be the case. Screaming and yelling, and being an overly aggressive jerk in no way helps the soldier, it in fact causes more problems. While I firmly agree that not everybody, by a wide margin, are suited for the military service, for the most part with the proper training all who can make it will, regardless of the screaming and yelling, and intimidation. I myself never had problem with it because I wasn't particularly intimidated by 5'7" 160 lb man or woman, staring up at me with the most ridiculous looking mean face, and screaming in a pitch that could shatter glass, all the while their faces turning bright red. It was all I could do not to laugh. But, the point is, the screaming and yelling do ABSOLUTELY nothing to build a better soldier.

Response by SSG John Erny made Dec 1 at 2014 11:02 AM

2014-12-01T11:02:39-05:00

It is a tool and should be used when needed. Just like the stone faced look of disapproval, smoke sessions, peer pressure, command voice, instructor voice, and my favorite! Drill Sergeant sayings. Private you look like a soup sandwich!!! You privates are ef'd up like a football bat. Best one I ever saw was not on a recruit but a cadet dot first time in uniform. Grouchy Vietnam Vet MSG! Come here General! Do you have any money in your pocket? Yes! then why the GD Hell do you not have A FKing hair cut!!! Out came the field clippers! He was the kind of man everybody walked on eggshells around, but he would bend over backwards to train you to standard. Respect.

Response by SSG Christopher Parrish made Dec 1 at 2014 11:06 AM

2014-12-01T11:06:39-05:00

I always thought it was a test to see which DS could come up with the best shark attack.

I do realize it is really intended to introduce more stress than the recruits are generally used to, in a safe environment, where they can learn from it and not become a liability when it is really crucial to be in control.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 4:06 PM

2014-12-01T16:06:54-05:00

I just came out of an MP OSUT company and after observing Drill Sergeants are trained today (I came out of Benning BCT myself in 2010) I feel that all we do now is yell. TRADOC 350-6 has really thumbed it down a notch when it comes to instilling discipline in Soldiers. Even after a year here, I still feel that it is extremely difficult to produce quality Soldiers without first instilling discipline.

How can you instill discipline to punk kids coming off the streets if there is no threat of having anything to lose? It is possible to yell at someone all day and have minimal effect. What must really be done is to couple the stress induced through yelling with physical punishment IAW with FM 7-22, but.... corrective punishment has only been reduced to 5 repetitions now!

As a result what I have seen is more indiscipline within the ranks - Soldiers acting out and refusing to train when it's raining, snowing or just "not feeling like it." When I came through training that was completely unheard of and not even an option. Then at the end of the train, we turn around and ask ourselves "why were the cadre unsuccessful?" It's not the cadre's fault.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 4:29 PM

2014-12-01T16:29:57-05:00

Even in the Navy we are yelled at in boot camp. It is needed and has its place. If the shop catches fire in the middle of an underway and you need to fight the fire and report what's going on (or direct people) yelling the psychological pressure that comes with it needs to be experienced. I think what needs to be focused on more is knowing when to yell and when not for other reasons.

Response by SSG Terry Totten made Dec 1 at 2014 9:20 PM

2014-12-01T21:20:14-05:00

Well I can only speak for myself and it's been a long time since I stepped off the bus but I do know that all that yelling got my attention real fast. First and foremost I never liked to be the center of attention and there is nothing like being yelled at by a drill in front of a entire platoon for failure to follow an instruction for getting everyones attention= works every time, second it always made me feel like an idiot and it seemed the drill was also making an effort to let everyone else know what a failure I was by getting all worked up and screaming about it. In short, all that yelling served a purpose= it kept all of us focused on whatever task was at hand and instilled what they called attention to detail, that's something you can't always teach people by (talking) to them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 11:08 PM

2014-12-01T23:08:01-05:00

I have no problem with DI's yelling at basic trainees. I hope they yell at my boys and turn them into men. There is never any justification for sexual harassment or trying to hurt a recruit physically out of hate. The stress of being yelled at, and still being able to function, is part of the process of being trained to be a good soldier.

Response by 1SG Don Stand made Dec 2 at 2014 7:52 AM

2014-12-02T07:52:57-05:00

Depending on the situation and soldier. You can get your point across without yelling but a good old fashion behind chewing is necessary at times.

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Dec 2 at 2014 10:01 AM

2014-12-02T10:01:12-05:00

I served as a Drill Sergeant at Ft. Dix, NJ for almost 3 years. I was involuntarily extended the 3rd year, but I was picked up for my advanced course in the secondary zone and ended up leaving about 3 months short of 3 years. From 80 to 82. During that time I never once saw a flock of drill sergeants surrounding a trainee and going stupid on them. Not once! That's just plain stupid. When more than one or two people are yelling, who can hear anything? You're not accomplishing a single thing except make the trainee feel lower than whale shit.

However, there are times when instructions need to be given in a sterner voice than your normal speaking volume. When you've given the same instructions many times over and an individual insists on doing it incorrectly, it's time to get in his/her face and make sure they understand what you are saying.

Many things in basic training can kill a young soldier. The confidence course, rifle range, live bay at the grenade range, live fire courses, etc, not to mention the heat of the middle of summer so you've got to be concerned with heat injuries and make sure your troops hydrate constantly. Safety is critical and anyone caught doing an unsafe act, needs to understand the seriousness of what they did. Calmly saying "don't do that, it's dangerous", doesn't have nearly the same impression on a young soldier as you get in their face and give them both barrels.

I don't know about the Army today, but when I was on the trail, you (the drill sgt) was personally responsible for each and every trainee in your platoon. Training accidents when on your record. When your career is on the line, you tend to be more engaged with the process and tend to get loud at times. As trainees progress through basic it tapers off until that time when the platoon is functioning like a well oiled machine. Yes yelling is important for so many reasons.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 11:26 AM

2014-12-02T11:26:42-05:00

It's a tool used during BCT and should not be confused or misinterpreted for anything else. It's a tactic ladies and gentleman so leave your thoughts of civilian ism at home. When a new SM is hollered at to exit the bus during arrival. The training and curing of a sickness has begun. At the end of it all he and/or she will be a professionally trained and highly motivated soldier ready for his career as a SM.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-12-02T13:15:53-05:00

The old way was to break the new Initial Entry Training Soldiers down and build them back up into a motivated well-disciplined Soldier capable of engaging and defeating the enemy in close quarters combat and on any battlefield. However as time and TRADOC regulation 350-1 has evolved the consensus has been that yelling at Soldiers or breaking them down to build them back up is not the answer. The answer is that you do not break the Soldier down any longer while you take the good and the bad they contribute in becoming a Soldier and build upon it.

All too often NCO’s and some SNCO’s believe that they are SSGT R Lee Ermey USMC, RET who is well known for having portrayed the role of Marine Senior Drill Instructor as GYSGT Hartman in the movie Full Metal Jacket. There again the propaganda that the Marines have used to recruit to fill their ranks has overinflated the heads of their service members past and present leading them to believe that because they earned the title that they are somehow superior to us common folk they being invincible as the same kid getting the tar knocked out of him back home all of a sudden is that baldest man to walk the face of this planet. This propaganda and brainwashed false representation of what you can and cannot do leads weak minded individuals to believe that the romanticized propaganda driven version of what a Marine Drill Instructor is supposed to be is somehow a standard that they need to live up to or exceed to prove their worth as Drill Sergeants.

We’ll guess what when I tell you yelling is never the way to tech, coach, or mentor a Soldier or and other service member. Our Country’s Armed Forces is an all-volunteer small percentages of less than 3% of are population who ever even serve one term in their respective branch of service. We should first be happy that they joined and want to be Soldier’s while treating them the same way we would want our children to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot.

I remember how impressed I was as a young SSG while in Drill Sergeant School by all the Drill Sergeant Leader’s. They led by example and never asked us to do anything that they had not flawlessly demonstrated for us never missing a beat. My Drill Sergeant Leaders were the NCO’s and SNCO’s that all of us should aspire to be like while the Soldiers we teach, coach and mentor should aspire to be like us while we know e did the best we could to prepare them for the challenges they will face throughout their time in the United States Army.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 3:34 PM

2014-12-02T15:34:57-05:00

Yes. There is no simple or undeniable fact that a Soldier needs that verbal lashing. Because anyone can agree that at that beginning stage of basic; we are all nasty civilians still. We are at the cusp of 'the suck' and something needs to push us past the 'I do not like it because it is going to hurt' phase, and into the 'pssh that wasn't that bad' stage.

Speaking from my experience at Fort Benning; It was well deserved. I mean, no matter the years of lacrosse, or other sports, could fully prepare me for the rigors of the Army lifestyle. I needed that 'boost' or 'encouragement' to cross that threshold and become the Soldier that I am today.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Dec 2 at 2014 3:50 PM

2014-12-02T15:50:14-05:00

We yell at Soldiers (or used to) in Basic Training to get the recruit ready for the pressures of the battlefield without the actual stresses of the battlefield. We yell at them to give them front loaded stress, not because we are angry. If they can't handle a DS yelling at them to get in the right position, they will not be able to handle incoming small arms fire, and a Squad Leader yelling at them to assault through the objective.

Foster Professionalism? no... We have other techniques for that. Like polishing boots... oh wait.

Response by SPC Jason Hagan made Dec 2 at 2014 4:45 PM

2014-12-02T16:45:27-05:00

It causes the soldier to start to think under stress. I think it's absolutely necessary.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 5:02 PM

2014-12-02T17:02:33-05:00

I found this quote...Not sure if it's relevant but some ole army guy said it.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight it's way out of a piss-soaked paper bag."

Response by SGT Anthony Fryxell made Dec 2 at 2014 6:57 PM

2014-12-02T18:57:33-05:00

I was always told when going through basic that it was so everyone can learn from your screw ups........

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 6:59 PM

2014-12-02T18:59:44-05:00

Having been there and coming in a strong minded civilian, I had to be broken to become a soldier, and I can tell you that Hollering is a necessary evil especially if you have to deal stubborn people who are finding it hard to adjust or are looking for every excuse to complain or to argue. Otherwise we would not be having Soldiers, but a bunch of civilians wearing ACU and playing Army until tribulations come whether in garrison or down range. The question is: is Hollering always use for the right motives?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 9:41 PM

2014-12-02T21:41:28-05:00

While it isn't the most professional thing to do it does teach people how to deal with the kinds of stress we Soldiers experience most every day. I think if it is used in conjunction with proper resiliency training these "kids" can become the Soldiers we need them to be. If we continue to make training less stressful then our Soldiers will be unable to deal with the stress experienced on a routine day let alone in a combat environment.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 9:58 PM

2014-12-02T21:58:25-05:00

"Hollering" creates a stressfull environment for new Airmen/soldiers. During initial training the objective is to breakdown "mentally" inorder to rebuild and be stronger. Until this point in most young men/females lives, their action and reaction to stressful events have not been tested. If the stressfull environment goes away I believe we will inherit a new age of Amn who do not have a strong personality to fight through trying issues but may try to avoid unwanted situations.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2014 1:33 PM

2014-12-03T13:33:23-05:00

This is definitely going to be a low stack now. If this question popped up, someone is trying to get rid of it. Please, God, until this is fixed, I hope the only people we get in a conflict with is Canada (kidding Canada, you're okay, nothing to worry about) I mean really, from one cycle to the next as a restart, I saw punchdrills one, coddling the next. What are you telling me next, we're gonna drop B and ARM to give them more courses on public appearance? How about we all just lose ALL self respect and send our soldiers into battle bearing sticks and stones? Guarantee, give it a few years we might end up seeing "Rifles and grenades: should we subject our recruits to the loud bang?"

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2014 2:58 PM

2014-12-03T14:58:08-05:00

I didn't understand the yelling and told the TIs that we understood everything they were directing us to do, even if they didn't yell. I attended OTS with docs, chaplains and lawyers, and we were all working professionals prior to the military and have gone through so much more stressful and chaotic periods getting through grad school and saving lives. The only way I could deal with the constant yelling was to smile, but I got in trouble a few times.

Response by MSG Daniel Talley made Dec 4 at 2014 7:00 PM

2014-12-04T19:00:14-05:00

Basic training has hundreds of functions. Our Drill Sergeants are tasked with performing most of these. To me it seems most have forgotten washing out those who cannot handle the stress of war as one of those. Beyond yelling at troops, sleepless nights, hard work, and harder PT there are few ways to affectivly do this.

If the stress of being spoken to harshly is too much, the individual may have chosen the wrong career field.

Please don't severe our Drill's ability to provide us troops who can remain focused under fire!

Response by Lt Col John Grimes made Dec 4 at 2014 7:49 PM

2014-12-04T19:49:28-05:00

I recall a SSG who was our platoon leader in Basic Army Training at Ft. Dix, NJ in 1958, about 3 months after I had graduated from High School. He was a soft spoken, but very articulate (in a Army sort of way - he could use that classic Army term 'FUCK' in so many different ways and inflections that it could mean almost anything. Anyway. Because he was such a good communicator, and had such a colorful and spectacular way of communicating - he did not have to yell. He gave a little speech on the first day of basic and he explained the way things worked - one had to listen carefully to what he had to say, and then carefully and quickly carry out his directions. He capped a 15 minute talk with a phrase I shall never forget (I have remembered it now for 56 years - so the chances of remembering as long as I live is very good). Anyway, he finalized his little talk by telling us assembled new recruits, "You fuck my, and I'll fuck you." And believe me it was not intended to be the slightest bit sexual.

Sometimes, especially for the particularly dense, or confused recruit, it is very necessary to emphasis some instruction, with greatly amplified speech - that is to say YELLING. It is a very effective training tool as long as the amount of yelling does not then make it less emphatic. My SSG, I surely loved the way he could call cadence, hardly EVER had to resort to Yelling - he used it to convey EMERGENCY, and that is about all.

Response by Cpl Anthony Pearson made Dec 5 at 2014 2:58 PM

2014-12-05T14:58:59-05:00

I don't think it is directed at fostering professionalism. It does more than that.

It breaks us all down and removes whatever attitudes we may have brought with us from the civilian world. It shows us that we are all equals (the recruits) and there are no favorites (even if there are - it happens). It makes us pliable, and prepares us for the mold.

The high tension, loud yelling, in-your-face, hostile actions of our Drill Instructors serves the additional purpose of getting us ready for intense situations, possibly combat situations. We need to learn to remain calm, keep our composure, think on our feet and to anticipate things - all while being barraged with finger pointing, invasion of personal space, multiple commands from various people, and more.

Boot camp, for many of us, is the first time people have experienced that sort of environment. Sure, coaches may get in our face in high school, and some of us have parents who were too hands-on, but for the most part, nothing is like the DI's in boot camp.

Are we more professional as a result? Perhaps. I believe I am. I can say that my Marine Corps experiences have uniquely prepared me for high intensity corporate situations where millions of dollars are at stake, business customers are depending on critical business processes to work, outside customers are depending upon continued services (I work for an energy company), and our department needs to show the corporation that we are here for a reason. Many times I have remained calm, improvised, adapted, and overcome a situation where others were losing their composure. During those moments, I am so very thankful for being a Marine, especially a wartime, combat veteran.

Semper Fi.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-01-22T14:30:51-05:00

To completely disregard my earlier point regarding the stress card, yelling at a TRAINEE does not harm them in any way. And if they do not have thick enough skin to have DS iin their face yelling at them for something THEY DID WRONG, then they have no business in this man's army. Hell, they get to their unit, and guess what's gonna happen to them? They're gonna get yelled at. Why? Because they are a Private and dont know anything. SO to coddle them in BCT/AIT/OSUT is the WRONG answer. We as cadre and senior service members are here to lead and teach them the ins and outs of the army, as well as to instill in them traits of good faith and discipline. Let them get their feelings hurt, because in the long run, they are harder, leaner, meaner, and stronger soldiers for it.

Response by SFC Kenneth Barkley made Jan 22 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-01-22T15:17:10-05:00

Hollering at a trainee in BCT is essential to forming the military mindset. As a former Drill Sgt. I can tell you that a "civilian" does not think as a solder does. Hence civilians NOT understanding what has happens in the soldiering process. As a combat veteran I can tell you there are times in combat when you are yelling and are not politically correct. The pressure put on in BCT, should equip the troop to work under pressure at a moments notice and do the task correct the first time.

Response by SSG Lucas Solie made Jan 27 at 2015 10:39 AM

2015-01-27T10:39:54-05:00

No it doesn't foster professionalizm, yelling in BT is to cause stress in a trainees life. This kind of stress causes the trainee to react. Thus in turn bullring mental toughness.

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Jan 27 at 2015 11:50 AM

2015-01-27T11:50:43-05:00

If basic training/"boot camp" did not include copious amounts of stress inoculation through screaming and hollering this country would be in deep doo-doo.

I'm actually a proponent of basic training/"boot camp" being an extremely harsh environment.

I'm no "macho man." I just believe that I just believe that all the political correctness of this world has no place in building Soldiers or service members.

I'm a firm believer that when you graduate from any services basic training/"boot camp" you should be one helluva tough son of a bitch.

Other countries beat the snot outta their recruits. I don't think that outright brutality is the answer for the U.S. But, I do believe there is an appropriate middle ground.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jan 27 at 2015 1:12 PM

2015-01-27T13:12:53-05:00

I know academically what the yelling is suppose to do, but I think it effects different people in different ways, I never really put much into being yelled at, in some cases it just made me resent the DI's. My inner personal feeling of not doing everything correctly is what got to me way more then being yelled at or doing extra PT.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-01-27T13:14:33-05:00

My understanding was always that it was a way to artificially increase the stress factor. The goal being that someone who can endure artificial stress in a training environment is better able to endure real stress in a combat environment.

On the flip side, if someone cannot cope with being yelled at by an NCO wearing the same uniform, they will likely be unable to cope with the enemy firing real bullets at them.

Response by SPC Larry Buck made Jan 27 at 2015 1:18 PM

2015-01-27T13:18:17-05:00

Oh snap... Shark Attack!!!

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jan 27 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-01-27T13:41:00-05:00

Has it worked for the past XX years?
Yes.
Do we fix something not broken?
No.
It what MAKES Boot Camp what it is, we already see the effects of softening up.
Thank you, I am finished.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 27 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-01-27T15:09:03-05:00

Last I checked basic/boot camp wasn't about professionalism only. Last I checked and when I went through it was about discipline, adapting, mental toughness, and dealing with high strain situations while suppressing your emotions (you know, all of that important battle stuff). My wife and I had an argument over drill instructors at boot camp and whether they should be allowed to hit a recruit. Her question to me was, "So if your son went to Marine boot camp and got punched in the face for not following an order you'd be ok with that?" My reply, "1) He would be 18 therefore an adult that can make his own decisions and take the consequences for those decisions, 2) I'd rather him be punched in the face at boot camp for failing to comply than to be shot in the face in combat because he didn't learn discipline at boot camp."

My point being, screaming at recruits/trainees is part of breaking them down and creating that shock factor. If you want a scream free environment perhaps the military isn't for you.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-01-27T16:04:24-05:00

It helps them build the ability to think under pressure. It's an important aspect of the job.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 8:57 AM

2015-01-28T08:57:50-05:00

Has anyone seen my stress card? I'm going to be late to formation and I want to have it handy.

Thanks.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 12:26 AM

2015-01-29T00:26:45-05:00

Perhaps not, but it damn sure get's their attention.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Jan 30 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-01-30T15:45:06-05:00

Yes, it stresses the trainee to handle high pressure situations without breaking. It is a way of weeding out those with weaker spirits and a lack of fortitude. Would a soldier who can handle a little verbal assault stand up to enhanced interrogation by enemy or would they spill all the classified and operational information they had?

I think I was yelled at every day in basic training and damn near punched a couple of times by DI's. The politically correct military has placed troops with compromised values and weak spines into our midst giving us the likes of Bradley Manning and Bowe Bergdahl.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 4:41 PM

2015-01-30T16:41:51-05:00

The phrase I always heard was "Purposeful Pressure." I am in support of the current system. It forces you to work on your military bearing, and so many have issues with that.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jan 30 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-01-30T17:01:56-05:00

Basic training is where the ones who can not deal with military are weeded out. Is one of the places you can walk away with little ramifications.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jan 30 at 2015 5:31 PM

2015-01-30T17:31:40-05:00

creates the smallest amount of stress that one might encounter in a deployed state. Yelling as bullets fly and as your getting your ass handed to you, you must stay calm and react professionaly

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 5:31 PM

2015-01-30T17:31:49-05:00

You get hollered at a lot in Airborne school. Why? Because if your parachute doesn't open, you have about 7 seconds before you splatter yourself over half an acre of ground. The point is to develop reflexes that work in a high-stress environment. People who don't develop those reflexes get buried more often. That should be reason enough.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 5:38 PM

2015-01-30T17:38:17-05:00

Has the softening that has occurred in the last decade that I've been in shown any benefit at all? Not one bit. So I think it would be counterproductive to find yet more things to make gentler.

Response by SFC Michael Garner made Jan 30 at 2015 5:53 PM

2015-01-30T17:53:56-05:00

We have to put pressure on the new Soldiers to fond out how the handle it, where do you want to find out how they react to intense pressure on the training ground or on the battle field? The more you sweat in peace the less you bleed in war!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-01-30T18:08:42-05:00

Drop your c**ks and grab your socks, hit the deck your scumbag a**holes. OH how I miss it.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 30 at 2015 6:29 PM

2015-01-30T18:29:56-05:00

I think it causes us to lose our ability to be stressed. Which is a very good thing.

Response by SGT Kevin Romine made Jan 30 at 2015 7:05 PM

2015-01-30T19:05:20-05:00

It is a litmus test to see how recruits handle multiple points of stress simultaneously. As many boots reflect down the road, we had it easy in basic. The real test begins in combat.

Response by SFC Royce Williams made Jan 30 at 2015 7:12 PM

2015-01-30T19:12:11-05:00

When I was on the "trail" I didn't holler at Privates to foster professionalism or to sound like a steroid freak. The reason is to increase stress and make them perform while being stressed out and confused. To be able to perform under pressure. There were some who just liked to yell and would do it the entire cycle but most yelled only as much as was needed.

Response by SPC Andrew Quinn made Jan 30 at 2015 7:20 PM

2015-01-30T19:20:55-05:00

Boot camp is all about coping with pressure and lack of sleep. Once the rounds start flying down range and you have troops that can't handel the pressures of boot camp how in the world are the going to cope with the day to day mind fuck of war. Combat at is anything but easy it is hard on the body and mostly on the mind. We have lowered our standards so much in the past 20 years, we are training to take life not to hand out candy and teddy bears. We are fighting men not gentalmen.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 7:22 PM

2015-01-30T19:22:33-05:00

It's part of the Freezing, Unfreezing and ReFreezing process (Shellshock). Because let's face it, majority of them after BMT go back to their original traits. I wish I had a BTI next to me through my years, but let's face it, we don't. That's why we call it Integrity or our Conscious...

Response by SSgt Jacob Lenfestey made Jan 30 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-01-30T19:29:15-05:00

Yelling should stay in BMT, i serves its purpose to help rip you down so they can rebuild you, I feel the way that it follows into some career fields is sort of unnecessary though. Into your junior enlisted years makes sense, you're still being moulded to complete the simplest tasks and follow regulations and they're trying to keep you from reverting. Yet I've seen NCOs get railed out for the smallest issues. Oh your troops troop was 1 minute late to being 15 minutes early, better pull you outside and scream so loud that people still think you're in the room room, at some point you have to treat your people with a little more finesse and act like an adult.

Response by SFC Jay Needham made Jan 30 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-01-30T19:29:24-05:00

Yes Hell went through Basic & AIT DI's could hit you... tangle with the DI's and you never fell out of a 25 mile road march...

Response by LTC Mark Crowson made Jan 30 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-01-30T19:43:32-05:00

In BCT we try to build attributes including composure (see ADRP 6-22). Hollering may reveal a Soldier's level of composure and enable coaching for someone who doesn't have much. Problem is, too often we forget why we're hollering. No coaching follows... The Soldier is left with the impression that hollering is just how NCOs lead in the Army. Leadership by example happens whether we want it to or not. So I say go ahead and holler with a purpose, but finish the job by ensuring the Soldier knows why you did it, what you learned about him by hollering and how he can improve.

Response by SFC Jason Porter made Jan 30 at 2015 8:08 PM

2015-01-30T20:08:46-05:00

It is meant to cause stress! Which slot of youngsters don't know how to deal with! Our Society has become pampered and weak! I don't think training is stressful enough!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 8:54 PM

2015-01-30T20:54:26-05:00

Add a former Drill Sergeant,I do understand this is a new Army and we are trying to win the hearts and minds of the new recruits. But we are settling ourselves short by babying them. They need to be broke down and built up to be the "Warriors" we are forced to call them now. (with no deployment time I must add) to me the be all you can be Army was the best ever! Now we are short on money, training and discipline. I hate to see what we look like in ten years if we keep letting society run the military knowing only less than 1% steps to defend our way of life.

Response by SGT Russ Huber made Jan 30 at 2015 8:55 PM

2015-01-30T20:55:20-05:00

Holy Crap, from what I've heard, I think they are not yelling nearly enough. I heard they are not allowed to "smoke" soldiers or give them intense "wall to wall" counseling any more. From what I've seen in Army WTF moments, there is a serious lack of leadership and discipline in the Army today. Then again, I'm an old fuck who was trained by NCO's that were all 'Nam combat vets just 15yrs or so from the jungle who had no problem knocking the pot off your head or literally put a boot in your ass to get their point across. I took it and it made me a better troop an leader myself. It builds character people.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 10:26 PM

2015-01-30T22:26:38-05:00

All I can say is, it made me a responsible man when I was an irresponsible punk before I went in. It kept me alive in Vietnam and that's all I need to say about that.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Jan 30 at 2015 10:33 PM

2015-01-30T22:33:48-05:00

No, hollering at were fine, that were the lesser of evil, actually kicking you up your rear-end were different and daily assaults, using ammonia closets until you passed out were another. Games called pile-ups were another, where all oxygen were eliminated from your bodies, then Motivational Platoon, which consisted of the sewage drain field, which you were brainwashed to love it
or you could not leave the field, D.I. who pushed your head under feces until they made you love it, where you could not graduate from the sewage drain field until they thought you were ready, only to graduate to the Baatan death march, where you were beaten and send to the Infirmary, and recycled.

Response by TSgt James Reynal made Jan 30 at 2015 10:41 PM

2015-01-30T22:41:10-05:00

the yelling over anything and everything is designed to create a stressful environment, and identify the quitters that can't deal with stress.
i'd much rather they get weeded out early, rather than under fire, where everyone else,s life could be jeopardized by them quitting.

Response by SSgt Jay Dee made Jan 30 at 2015 11:10 PM

2015-01-30T23:10:00-05:00

Oh man! I thought this was a joke at first, but it's real! I'm not even going to explain why it's a valuable tool, but will say that if you seriously have to ask that question and you seriously are offended by it and if you have followers, and if this is more common than I know about; we're doomed!!!

Response by SGT Caleb Wheeler made Jan 30 at 2015 11:12 PM

2015-01-30T23:12:11-05:00

Yes. Everything we do in the Military at it's core is to help prepare each Service Member to survive in combat. If a new Member to the Military never experiences some levels of stress from the beginning stages if their time in uniform and then finds themselves in Combat, how much of a greater risk are they to themselves or others if they have been deprived the proper levels of environmental stress?

Response by CPL William Atkinson made Jan 30 at 2015 11:35 PM

2015-01-30T23:35:48-05:00

The problem with todays army is this whole "professionalism" stance. There trying to run the army like a fortune 500 company instead of an actual army. It sadens me to see how far the army has fallen in this aspect

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 11:51 PM

2015-01-30T23:51:08-05:00

Teaches them to think on their feet and work under pressure. Beats giving them hot cocoa and marshmallows!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 11:51 PM

2015-01-30T23:51:14-05:00

Are you telling me that people don't get yelled at, scowled at, or such in the civilian work force? Are they going to file a complain when their supervisors give them an attitude? Or when a customer gets snotty and mean with them? In some states, employers don't even need a reason to fire you. At the same time, some people don't take you seriously until you get fired up. Go figure.

Response by Sgt Gerald Burden made Jan 31 at 2015 12:06 AM

2015-01-31T00:06:55-05:00

Combat conditions can be mentally and emotionally challenging sometimes even more so than the physical aspect...If someone isn't strong enough to handle the emotional/mental stress of basic then I definitely don't want them in my platoon. this is one way of weeding out the weak. My unit had eleven that didn't make it past the first month and that was probably a blessing in disguise.

Response by PO1 Joseph Frazier made Jan 31 at 2015 12:28 AM

2015-01-31T00:28:11-05:00

Yelling at new recruits prepares them for more stressful situations. While in "boot camp" we are only in the presence of the Senior Enlisted who are teaching us the basics. After going through the yelling there, I was ready for my first CO who made my Company Commander appear to be a "whimp." I was also semi-ready for the more intensive training I was facing onboard ship. Anti-yelling stances are the political correctness soldiers do.not need.

Response by SSG David Pond made Jan 31 at 2015 12:52 AM

2015-01-31T00:52:34-05:00

The yelling is about creating confusion and stress. Situation they would experience in combat. This is the military.

Response by SPC Robert Norton made Jan 31 at 2015 12:59 AM

2015-01-31T00:59:47-05:00

the hollering never really bothered me, they can't do anything worse than my mother already has. that tells you something about the drills and my mother lol!

Response by SSG Willis Baker made Jan 31 at 2015 3:46 AM

2015-01-31T03:46:11-05:00

It's about time the Army started yelling at the troops at basic training. It has worked well for the Marines for decades. And look how smart they look and feel. If a soldier can't make it through Army Basic Training then they need to go home and play with their GI Joe/Barbie dolls. If you can't take basic training, how well do you think you will do on the battlefield?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 4:12 AM

2015-01-31T04:12:52-05:00

I got hollered at in BCT so why is the new guys any different

Response by CW2 Timothy Slaght made Jan 31 at 2015 6:52 AM

2015-01-31T06:52:15-05:00

I do not believe to goal of Basic Trading is to train SM's to be professional. I feel the goal is three old.
First, introduce troops to a highly stressful environment and still expect them to perform. In this respect I feel it does prepare them, somewhat, for deployments.
Two, the ultimate goal of the military is to have a bunch of people, no matter there background, to have a similar set of values. The reprogramming begins in Basic.
Third, SM'S begin learning basic soldiering skills.
I feel that basic does not have the cannot teach professionalism. That falls on the gaining Unit.

Response by SGT Rodney Hampton made Jan 31 at 2015 8:15 AM

2015-01-31T08:15:35-05:00

Sticks and stones can break bones but words can never hurt you. Easy to say, but it has to be experienced to internalize it. :-) Everybody below has made the correct points. We need to add stress to teach a person how to deal with stress and still perform. Drill Sergeants need to break down psychological barriers quickly. Drill Sergeants have to get people's attention at the outset of basic so training can get done efficiently. I never encountered a person in civilian life who has been able to get me rattled. They yell, I stand firm and react. I can thank my Army training for preparing me to deal with some of the craziness I have seen in corporate America, keep my cool, and thrive.

Response by TSgt Robert Carter made Jan 31 at 2015 8:34 AM

2015-01-31T08:34:53-05:00

I personally think it does no harm, only points out to the recruit the wrong things they are doing. When I went through boot camp it was still in the era where drill instructors could punch and kick you into submittance. Being yelled at is nothing.

Response by SSG Keith Gipson made Jan 31 at 2015 9:45 AM

2015-01-31T09:45:23-05:00

When a person (who is not a soldier) that supposedly wants to become a soldier, is introduced into a whole new world that in the name itself (SOLDIER) describes the job they will be undertaking, but doesn't understand that toughness, determination, personal courage, facing different adversities of life, understanding what they have become a part of and a newfound strength, earned through hours, days, weeks and months of training proving that a transfermation has finally occurred within them, happens.........there should be no question whether or not "people" in basic training that want to be soldiers, should be yelled at. As a former DS myself, and anyone who has been in basic training knows, no one is yelled at 24 hours a day. But, yelling is necessary! Even more worse than yelling might be required at times to wake people up and shape them up. An occasional dogout session can be used to break down a person and remind them that this is tough, but eventually, it will build them up and turn their lives around. Their sole purpose in basic training is to be introduced to a lifestyle and tradition and transformed. It is important that feeble minds do not prevail. When and if these soldiers ever are faced with the toughest situations of all, and that is, whether to choose life over death, you will want to know that whoever trained them, provided that soldier with an immovable foundation that has been forged with truth, honesty, strength, courage, and a strong belief in Country and thenselves. So yes! Yell at soldiers when it's necessary and train them always. Teach them and encourage them to go the mile that we call 9 tough damn weeks of transformation, and hear on the other end, "Thank you, Sir; for turning my son or daughter's life around."

Response by SSG John Rider made Jan 31 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-01-31T10:45:55-05:00

I've pondered this question on several occasions. I think we all remember in basic training there were DIs who yelled and screamed and got in your face, and then there were those who played the good guy roll. In my opinion many of the yell and screamers were guys with ego problems to start with. It made them feel special to be the big tough guy by picking on new recruits. It wasn't anything we learned in Drill Sergeant Academy. On the other hand I see nothing wrong with the tactic when used to train individuals to react to orders without thinking. This just may save a life in a combat situation.
In retrospect I guess that while I didn't care for the tactic, it didn't kill me, so it just might have made me tougher...

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 10:48 AM

2015-01-31T10:48:58-05:00

When I was a DS and DSL I did yell. However, I didn't yell for no reason. If I got onto somebody I wanted EVERYONE to hear it. That saves me from repeating myself over 240 times. When I talked, I was loud. It avoids the repeating and ensured my directives were followed. I always explained the Soldiers that your voice is extremely important while in battle. In the midst of chaos, subordinates are listening for the ring of your voice and your voice only. By the time we got to week 9 I had confident Soldiers willing to lead and knew whom they had to listed when in contact.

Yelling for no reason makes them tune you out. At that time you are no longer effective. Believe it or not, they need to hear a fatherly voice every so often also.

Response by AN Fredric Deckert made Jan 31 at 2015 10:51 AM

2015-01-31T10:51:58-05:00

Boot camp at Great Lakes Training Center was not a yelling time for me. We recruits were talked to. A raised voice was used in class rooms if not everyone could hear the instructor. I was surprised the Army does it. Not a part of retraining from the civilian word to military, Trying to absorb all of the new material was tough enough as it was.

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Jan 31 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-01-31T11:42:47-05:00

It serves it's purpose of shock and awe, inducing stress, and making recruits immediately aware that their life has just changed in a dramatic way.

Those are the immediate, practical benefits (that have diminishing returns over time IMO); however, there is another benefit that is less obvious.

The services make it no secret that some verbal harassment is part of the recruit training experience. Those potential enlistees that lack the courage to face a little yelling won't join and the services are better off for it. In other words, it functions as an unofficial means to filter out a chunk of humanity that cannot adapt to a military lifestyle.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-01-31T11:52:00-05:00

First off DRILL SERGEANTS are In the Army not DI's. And as a former Infantry Drill Sergeant WE don't "holler, yell or scream", we speak loud enough so every other soldier near by can hear the issue at hand and correct themselves without having to have a DS correct them too! DS's have a job to do just like everyone else in the Army, their job is to mold, mentor and create from nothing a fully qualified American Soldier. People say young men and women are different today compared to people from different times. I agree! But training and making soldiers has not! You have to break a civilian down to create a soldier. You have to take that attitude and mentality of "me or I" and replace it with "you and Us". You have to prepare soldiers for the stresses and hardships of combat and deployments, the first step is to stress them out from day 1. Inadvertently the "yelling and hollering" injects this stress into a soldiers day to day life and they learn to deal with it and don't even realize they learned to cope.
At its most basic form what are we training soldiers to do in BT?
We are teaching them the horrors of war and how to kill another person. If you have never taken a life then you won't understand this, but that is one of the single most stressful things a soldier can do. And the next is watching your buddy next to you get blown apart. Sotheby's answer to your original question, HELL YES hollering is professional!
SFC Teague

Response by PFC Thomas Kalista made Jan 31 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-01-31T13:02:02-05:00

The way to handle stress can't be tought in a class or on the battlefield so there may not be a shred of evidence to support the yelling at new soldiers but if your Drill Sergeant/Instructor didn't yell at the new soldiers going through basic training would you be willing to go and fight alongside those soldiers? The yelling that the new soldiers recive in basic training is the way the Drill Sergeant see how much stress the new soldiers

Response by SSG Everett Wilson made Jan 31 at 2015 3:43 PM

2015-01-31T15:43:07-05:00

Sometimes yelling at troops in training makes them learn from their mistakes. Is it professional-no. is it a training tool-yes. When soldiers realize that they get yelled at for making mistakes they'll try harder. However in the classes that I taught (Supply 92Y) we would simply explain the mistakes, and if additional training was needed we did so after class hours.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jan 31 at 2015 5:34 PM

2015-01-31T17:34:00-05:00

Is if fostering professionalism? No. Is it valuable training indicating a Soldier's ability to handle stress? Most definitely.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 5:01 AM

2015-02-01T05:01:06-05:00

In 1964 when I went through boot camp at Ft Polk, the drill Sgt made it clear that his primary goal was to train us to stay alive in combat. If the yelling disturbs you reflect on what is being said. You're probably wondering how this action helps you to stay alive. The methods used are many and varied but have stood the test of time. Granted, every soldier can't go unscathed in combat, but attention to detail is an integral part of your training and the day you begin to question the method, you may be way out in left field when you should have been listening to the umpire. Keep in mind that TEAMWORK is the glue that keeps a squad, platoon, battalion, brigade or division operating smoothly

Response by SPC Rick Simms made Feb 1 at 2015 10:13 AM

2015-02-01T10:13:41-05:00

LOL Holy crap do I wanna yell "shut up pussy" right now. As a guy that leads a bunch of 20 somethings in the civilian side now I can tell you how disappointed with the young people I meet today. I grew up in a rough area that didn't exactly coddle you so I was different from the other recruits to begin with, but remember this: We all went and witnessed first hand our enemies pushing AK's into the hands of their young. Do we really think the best way to prepare for that reality is to shield them from stress and emotional difficulty?

Response by SPC Rick Simms made Feb 1 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-02-01T10:14:19-05:00

Response by SPC Rick Simms made Feb 1 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-02-01T10:14:57-05:00

Response by LCpl Travis Loiselle made Feb 1 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-02-01T14:57:56-05:00

Honest question: Did a civilian ask this question. I ask because I often wonder how our civilian counterparts view us. That and I can't imagine someone who went through recruit training would actually surmise this.

Response by SGT John Howard made Feb 1 at 2015 3:35 PM

2015-02-01T15:35:22-05:00

I will be forever grateful to 1ST Danley, PSG Collins, PSG Garcia, et al, for helping me get my head out of my a**. Fort Benning was tough, dirty, cold, hot, wet, dusty and nothing I did was good enough. But, I kept going, going, going. Now, almost 50-years later, a successful professional career, a wonderful family (and a poor golf game, I thank those professional soldiers for their efforts.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 3:38 PM

2015-02-01T15:38:07-05:00

It depends. I was 26 in basic, pretty mature, have traveled the world.., so there was no breaking me down and building me up. And no amount of push-ups or yelling could do so for me. Today, I rather explain my soldiers what they did wrong and why they shouldn't do it again than yell; however, unfortunately some soldiers seem unable to hear what you're saying if you're not yelling or they're not sweating or both

Response by SSG Joel Pack made Feb 1 at 2015 5:47 PM

2015-02-01T17:47:05-05:00

Yelling at recruits, getting in their faces and many other tactics helps to prepair them for when the shit hits the fan. You don't have time, when bullets are whizzing past to be nice and thoughtful of their feelings.
Today's kinder gentler Army is too political, we don't want to upset anyone. Personally I think we are a weeker Army because of all this.

Response by SGT Jonathan Williams made Feb 1 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-02-01T17:48:22-05:00

It is not designed to foster professionalism. It is designed to breakdown the individual identity in part and replace that with the Soldier identity. That person is now a part of the team.

Response by MSG Nick C. made Feb 1 at 2015 10:39 PM

2015-02-01T22:39:19-05:00

I hope to God we're not going down the long, whining, road of "don't bully me" bullshit. The point of any "hollering" isn't to be obnoxious, or make the service dysfunctional. The purpose, at the basic and beginner level, if you will, is to make a new soldier, sailor, airman or marine to learn to focus and perform their jobs under "other than normal" conditions. As simple as it seems, the yelling and added confusion makes young troops (and old) learn to listen to "what" is said, not "how" it's being said. Professionalism is the result of how we conduct ourselves regardless of what circumstances we are placed in, not whether it's politically correct to "holler" at the troopies. I absolutely believe that we are as professional as we can be despite our condition or whatever newsworthy buzzwords are thrown our way. To concern ourselves with the worries of people who live in the shadow of the protection we provide is not worth the effort it takes to second guess ourselves. They have no idea about what it is to have to function and make critical decisions under the stressful conditions that service members are forced to do when called to duty. So,... "hollering" isn't a measure of professionalism or the lack thereof, it's a means to building the character of the troops who will be called on to protect our nations interests now and in the future. Being yelled at during training is a lot less painful than not being able to think clearly and objectively when gunfire, mortar shells, or your buddies calling for a medic is after the training has ended and reality begins. Or maybe I'm just a mean person.

Response by GySgt Brian Robinson made Feb 2 at 2015 7:38 AM

2015-02-02T07:38:27-05:00

Is this a serious question?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 10:32 AM

2015-02-02T10:32:09-05:00

Just like most Army schools there is additional stressors added to test the ability of the attendees to handle stress. Does it foster professionalism? I would have to say it brings out professionalism. Through adding stress you will see who will be able to perform to the quality necessary to be considered a Soldier, Marine, Sailor or Airmen.

Response by SSG Benny Stewart made Feb 2 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-02-02T11:56:52-05:00

Yes these Drill's have to get our attention But The yelling put me in a state of mind that i can't do anything.. and as a SSG it caused me trouble with the requite i lost a few people with the yelling there are other ways to get there attention as i found.. by my yelling it drove people off ....did not like it and it does not help!!!!

Response by SPC Jasper Jennings made Feb 3 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-02-03T18:40:06-05:00

What do they think other countries will do to them when they get captured?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-02-04T12:26:09-05:00

This is one of the many reasons we are being castrated, feminized and over all just becoming weak. Stop being so damn soft and make boys into men. The world isn't going to powder our ass so why in the hell as a military where we go to kill others for a living be concerned with feelings. We are a military. Not a fraternity.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Feb 4 at 2015 1:01 PM

2015-02-04T13:01:59-05:00

We train pussies every fucking day in the military. A bunch of wimps who have no reason being the military except they were lewd to by the fucking recruiter about how awesome desk jobs are or the bullshit college benefits that come 90 days into their (recruits) contract. Since coming home Iraq, I've been diagnosed with ptsd and other post deployment shit, but that's because I'm not hard up to do it again... we have guys who don't believe in themselves, their mission or why they joined up in the first place. A bunch of blue falcons who didn't believe or trust in themselves to stay alive or protect our country... a bunch of liberal cock suckers who blame everyone else but take no responsibility for the trigger pulling they did. My trigger pull, never happened. I never chambered a round in my issued rifle... never needed to. Crew served, that's different. Do I wish I could've made a bigger difference than I did, sure. But these "vets" who come home bashing their time in service should all be bright up on war crimes THEY COMMITTED...not you or I

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-02-04T13:14:31-05:00

No, I actually believe Xbox and PT belts truly foster professionalism.

;)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 11:15 PM

2015-02-04T23:15:49-05:00

ha..have you ever dealt with these new recruits? I don't know how some of them made it out of basic. they cry at the slightest voice inflection. Only want to play a freaking game system and are always late or FTR for formations....shame...Yell away and hopefully someone will get through to them that this is the Army not COD

Response by SFC Francisco Roman made Feb 17 at 2015 8:05 PM

2015-02-17T20:05:56-05:00

No.!!!! If you're interested in becoming a part of a team that will not be afraid of what ever situation comes in front of you. They need all the deception out of their own way. We need soldier that can make a decision on a split second under stressful moments. For those that can't expect to get holler at they need to go home to their parents.

Response by SSG Joel Pack made Feb 18 at 2015 6:31 PM

2015-02-18T18:31:26-05:00

This is my 2nd post on this toppic because it looks like its still foggy to some people.
When Drill Sgts yell at recruits they look for 3 things.
1. Are your eyes welling up, ready to cry? If so you're a Panzy and need toughing up.
2. Is your face turning red or fists clenched? If so you need to learn to deal with stress, confrontation and how to lose the street thug attitude.
3. Can you stand there at attention or parade rest without showing signs of #s 1 or 2? If so you would be better at handling stress which puts you at an advantage over the other two groups when it comes to battlefield and other Military stressers . So SSG service member if you or any others feel that hollering at recruits is unnecessary then I pray you are NEVER in a situation where others are relying on you to cover them or possibly commit a heroic deed to save them. I would imagine that people with that mindset would either freeze up behind cover while others pull their comrades out of harms way. As a leader I want to be assured that my fellow soldiers will "take that hill" whitout hesitation, hesitation = lack of discipline, lack of training and or fear. As I said in my 1st post when the shit hits the fan you don't have time to think, hesitate or question your orders. If you think I'm wrong in my statements then you're in the wrong profession, the air force is always looking for drone operators. Oh, I was one of those street punks, I am greatful for the life lessons I had yelled into me in basic. In the beginning I wanted to rip my drill Sgts head off, at the end I was able to stand there without emotion and take it. it made me a better person as well as a better solider. Without it I would probably be back on the block doing nothing with my life.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Feb 18 at 2015 8:48 PM

2015-02-18T20:48:00-05:00

I was assigned as an AIT PLATOON SERGEANT way back when the Army decided to make AIT an extention of Basic Training. My day started at 0400 waking up my soldiers and usually leaving for home 1900-2100. Troops were locked down until they were able to meet standards and restricted to the barracks. This was my indoctrination time, Tough, No Slack and spent quality time training them exactly what needed to be done and how. I lived with them for their first 2 weeks day and night. This allowed me to know my soldiers, choose leaders and after those two weeks of hell they all knew how and why it needed to be done. They had three types of bed rolls which had to be made each week abc they knew I would measure them so they insured it was done properly. Never, yelled, Never disrespected them and took disapline to my office. The other platoon sergeants yelled screamed couldn't get them to comply with standards and they couldn't wait to go home at night. After my first to 2 weeks with the I coasted the rest of the cycle. 0400 wake up as I stood in the door and yelled off your ass and on your feet! On the PT field at 430, shit shower shave, March to breakfast, March to school. Meet them at lunch March to the mess hall, back to class. Never lost a trainee for 2 1/2 years with a new cycle every 8 weeks. They all graduated. Othe sergeants could understand how I would get the to listen. Train then exactly the way you want them, don't let them slide and instill respect. Most take the power to their head, scream, yell and constantly put them in the front leaning rest. Took 5 of the 9 quarters as PLATOON SERGEANT OF THE QUARTER for hitting all the stats and 100% on Command CSM Inspection.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 12:30 AM

2015-03-13T00:30:35-04:00

It helps with the breakdown process to make a better and more efficient Soldier, who is able to work well in dangerous or stressful situations.

Response by Sgt Gerald Burden made Mar 13 at 2015 12:39 AM

2015-03-13T00:39:12-04:00

So often many NCOs and Officers Yell or Haze because "it was done to them" Sometimes there is a deeper lesson that isn't figured out. First day of USMC Boot Camp they taught us to sit (a modified Indian Style) They were so big on making sure we sat in The Proper Marine Corp Fashion. Unknown to us at the time...Marine Corps is big on "One Shot One Kill" (A big turning point in WWII). If you can't qualify at the rifle range you don't graduate. We were being prepared in advanced for a shooting stance that was 70% of the grade.....
Most of the VERBAL CONDITIONING in basic is designed to weed out the emotional and mentally weak so they don't crack in stressful situations (such as combat). One person could get several killed..... Many recruits didn't want to be signaled out or VERBALLY CONDITIONED so they made sure they did everything beyond what they usually would. This conditioning to ATTENTION TO DETAIL if ingrained in a person to become second nature will greatly enhance the performance of everything they do...ESPECIALLY IN A COMBAT ENVIRONMENT....
Edit

Response by LCDR Jeffery Dixon made Mar 13 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-03-13T17:19:31-04:00

Not meant to foster professionalism. Meant to stress test.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 12:15 AM

2015-03-29T00:15:06-04:00

To be honest, I don't care if I get the most unprofessional soldiers out there straight from training.... As long they have respect I can show them professionalism, and encouragement to better themselves... Now back to your question, no I don't believe it molds professionalism, but I know it makes for a more respected rank structure, and with that being said the day basic training loses the "hostile nature, or suck factor" you'll see my 2 week notice

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 29 at 2015 3:11 AM

2015-03-29T03:11:02-04:00

No, but it helps with ensuring Soldiers can function effectively under stress... which is kind of a big deal in the Army... and in combat...

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Mar 29 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-03-29T13:08:28-04:00

Don't know about professionalism, but it is a tried and true rite of passage.

If you were to drop a Roman Legionnaire in the middle of a Basic Training Co he might be confused as to rank and uniform, but he would know EXACTLY where he was!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 1:45 PM

2015-04-10T13:45:37-04:00

The purpose of Basic Training, in my opinion, is not to foster professionalism but rather discipline. That's not to say that professionalism is not or cannot be a byproduct of gaining discipline

Professionalism is fostered by the supervisors at their first duty station. It is cultivated and nurtured through mentor-ship.

We should be concerned when trainees/recruits come out of basic lacking the discipline to be in the profession of arms.

Response by SSG Mannix Brooks made Apr 10 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-04-10T15:01:28-04:00

Professionalism no, mental toughness yes. No one likes to get shouted at but there are a whole lot of worse ways someone can let you know you made a mistake, in the act of messing up, need to toughen up or need to move quicker and 99% of those ways come from the people downrange shooting at you or trying to blow you up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 5:35 PM

2015-04-10T17:35:24-04:00

I believe that the in the initial 72 hours of BCT/IET it needs to be intense from the time they get off the cattle trucks to waking up each morning. But I believe as a DS you have to know when to pull back and just be an NCO and know when to pull the switch back into DS mode so the recruit understands you are not their buddy.

Response by SGT Michael Touchet made Apr 10 at 2015 6:23 PM

2015-04-10T18:23:22-04:00

I believe its purpose is to induce stress so that the individual can become accustomed to operating in a stressful environment. Instructors often use this to remove the "I" out of the Team, meaning we've all seen the show boaters that are in every class, who think that they will impress the instructors with how fast they are leaving the class far behind; however what they fail to realize is that they can't fight the battle on their own, so then the whole Team is smoked relentlessly until they all start moving together as a unit, remembering that they are only as strong as the weakest link. The other important lesson is that they never leave a Team Member behind. Anyways, thats my 2 cents.

Response by SFC Joseph James made Apr 22 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-04-22T21:13:22-04:00

"Shred of Evidence"? Try looking at every soldier that has served during our War on Terror! They have answered this call with professionalism and dedication. Drill Sergeants work now and have worked in the past bringing up some of the best Military leaders for a reason. We yell in combat so it makes sense to yell in training. Train the way you fight!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-04-30T21:45:01-04:00

Have you ever even been a Drill Sergeant? Sorry for being blunt, but this is a stupid question.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 30 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-04-30T21:48:28-04:00

Great responses. Break down, then rebuild is the purpose. However, it must be done quickly, hence the yelling tool works. It can go too far by pushing people over the edge. Before you jump on me: there is value of this as a filter. Get rid of the "non-fits" early so you can focus your energy on the ones who'll succeed. I remember a long time ago DI's were also given training to be observant of the effect they were having on their recruits, lest permanent damage be done aka Pvt "Gomer Pyle" Lawrence in FMJ.

If yelling didn't have benefits that couldn't be replicated by something else, it would have been ditched a long time ago.

Response by Col Kyle Taylor made Apr 30 at 2015 9:52 PM

2015-04-30T21:52:15-04:00

I would suggest that it would be better to put them in situations that make them rely on eachother and see what they themselves are made of ... But that is a serious challenge without making it too dangerous. Yelling just makes it appear that we can't make things happen without yelling and degrading someone. Not the type of professionalism that I think we want to instill.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 9:56 PM

2015-04-30T21:56:56-04:00

Yes that is the way we have always done it and for good reason. To break the individual down. Then when that task is complete, build that person back as a prductive, dependable member of the force.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 10:07 PM

2015-04-30T22:07:37-04:00

Is this really a topic?!!!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 9:40 AM

2015-05-01T09:40:54-04:00

It produces stress on them and immediately starts making them learn to think when things are not smooth sailing. In a combat zone I can not have a battle buddy that can not think and make decisions when the bullets are flying. If you put your Soldiers in a stressful situation weather in BCT or in a regular unit during training and force them to think you will have a better trained unit when it is time to jump into the fight.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-05-01T09:43:45-04:00

It may not build professionalism, but it helps with reinforcement. How else can you break someone down in a matter of weeks and mold them into something they may not want to be or understand how to be? Yelling, Cursing, screaming, pain compliance, negative reinforcement, and peer pressure are all great tools to use. Why? It separates us from those that could not handle it, were too afraid to handle it, or just too damn lazy.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 9:47 AM

2015-05-01T09:47:39-04:00

I see a lot of great responses here, but I think that it was meant to ask something different. Why do we have so many soldiers that fail to adapt? Why do we have soldiers who feel entitled, rather than inspired/motivated to do better and earn bigger and better things? Especially if this type of behavior is supposed to be weeded out during BCT. Honestly, BCT didn't change many, many who needed it, that I was there with, and maybe that's because I joined in 2012, or maybe not.

Response by SGT Curtis Earl made May 1 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-05-01T10:22:30-04:00

A lot of leaders - NCOs and Officers included - are extremely poor communicators. They call it 'Army Culture' but I think they're just not very intelligent and poorly trained - it's how they were raised (in the Army) and they simply don't know any better. In training I could see shouting down a ridiculous private who's done something ignorant or dangerous. But it never stops there. 10 years later, that silly private is now an angry SSG who stomps around the office shouting at people because that's all the Army taught him. It's disrespectful and ineffective. If you can't correct or retrain me without disrespectful behavior, I don't think you should be a leader.

I've been lucky in both my fields - IT and music. We draw more mature and educated entrants. By the time I enlisted, I'd pledged a frat (where getting my brands was the easiest thing I did all semester) and graduated college. I was grown and recognized the hazing disguised as 'soldier improvement'. I beat he mind game because I knew that my NCOs were treating me like shit because that's what they were taught. I mentally vowed that I'd never be that leader. People follow and do what I ask because of my demonstrated expertise not because I can yell the loudest.

I'm always amazed when I visit other units and see NCOs publicly blasting younger troops over things that could have been addressed privately or in an email. I think they do it to show dominance and to show off in front of the other NCOs. In my mind, I mark those NCOs as unprofessional. Treat people as you want to be treated. Live the Army Values. Respect is right there in the acronym.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 1 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-05-01T14:51:32-04:00

If they get shell shock in basic training, they are not military material.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 12:48 PM

2015-08-12T12:48:15-04:00

It is in order to instill discipline.
The military wants soldiers that comply with orders, not disrespectful and soft jellyfish.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 12 at 2015 12:48 PM

2015-08-12T12:48:52-04:00

Yelling rarely accomplished anything.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 12 at 2015 1:40 PM

2015-08-12T13:40:36-04:00

The trainees should be tested physically and mentally. I would prefer they flip out in basic than in war.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-08-12T13:44:24-04:00

LTC Halvorson-You said all that needed to be said Sir.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Aug 12 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-08-12T13:52:56-04:00

No. Not in the least. No fostering PROFESSIONALISM..... TI's get up in your face and screamed at you and called you names...just as football coaches do and other types of situations....is NOT fostering PROFESSIONALISM in the least.

The idea of or behind this is to weed out the weak...bring out the strong so the best can continue on into service after basic.... it's suppose to build up your character, your strength and your stamina.... It's a mind game....and those who learn to play the game gets through it.

Before I went off to basic, my father told me...just remember when you are being yelled at ......... it's only for 6 weeks and it'll be over and you'll be off to the real Air Force where that will not happen....He said...just think of funny thoughts...let it go into one ear and out the other...it's not DIREcTLY DIRECTED TOWARDS YOU....Do not take it personally and you'll be just fine.....and so I did just that.

So I took my dad's advice....and made it through basic with no problems.

Yelling....screaming...shouting.....calling names.....is not going to get you anywhere....it instills FEAR....RESENTMENT.....HATE.... and a bunch of other bad feelings....generally in most cases...but for basic, it's meant for getting the creme of the crop...knocking off that chip on ones shoulder and getting one to stand up and be someone...to strengthen ones character and get you going.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 12 at 2015 2:25 PM

2015-08-12T14:25:22-04:00

I would tend to say it lies in the area of a title you used in your statement: "dysfunctional family". The way I viewed basic (a few years after completion) was that it was meant to have the appearance of a dysfunctional family with the DS's playing Mom and Dad who are always pissed off because you cant seem to do anything right... but as training progressed, there was a shift... Just a small bit of appreciation, a "good job" or something along those lines thrown at select individuals in this newly forming team, and suddenly the others were willing to do whatever to receive those accolades themselves and notice that it "makes mom and dad happy". And collectively they learned, mom and dad would actually "smile" if all of them performed together, and they finally realized that it wasn't so hard to please them as long as they worked together... Suddenly you have a functional team working as a functional "family" instead of a dysfunctional one, and all of the yelling and screaming became few and far in between. And though not as bad as basic, throughout my career I still saw remnants of this with each PCS, merging of specialties, participating in joint exercises, moving to a new position, etc, and each time, whether it was me or someone else, I remember Basic, and assisted the new family member, or I immediately sought out that assistance from new "brothers and sisters" which quickly and effectively had me functional with every new family I got assigned to (I always considered myself to be the new foster kid), and not get on "mom and dad's" bad side. Weird way of looking at it, I know, but I haven't had to think about this since I retired in 2008, until now! LOL!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 8:41 PM

2015-08-12T20:41:57-04:00

I dont condone hollering as part of everyday leadership. I see 3 situations that it can be done: 1 an order that requires urgent action for safety or mission success, 2. In basic training, a means to teach young recuits to recact quickly under conditions or stress (indiv and as a team) 3. Someimes if an order is not heard or understood, it may be nessesary to say it again firmer and louder. Hollering should not include put downs or cussing. (Some old-school veterans might say that cussing is part of the culture but I believe that the desired effect can be achieved without it!)
The leader should insure there is a training, personal development, or mission reason in any approach used.

Response by Cpl Clinton Britt made Oct 1 at 2015 7:42 PM

2015-10-01T19:42:07-04:00

It is supposed to represent Combat Stress

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 16 at 2015 4:26 PM

2015-12-16T16:26:56-05:00

I want them to be pushed hard. I want to see how easy it is to break them.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 18 at 2015 2:38 AM

2015-12-18T02:38:38-05:00

The intensity level and induced stress is often the key to getting the attention of a new recruit. The key to successfully training a recruit is intilling in them instant willing obedience to orders, self reliance and respect for authority. One of the biggest things is to instill in them a sense of urgency. Tasks must be accomplished as quickly as possible and toi an exacting standard. The average recruit is a product of American culture. They generally do things at a slow pace and think if they just participate its good enough. They have been gently talked to and coddled their entire life. They take 45 minutes to Shower, 20 minutes to get dressed, and if they do clean up their living space its a two hour ordeal. The only thing that will change those behaviors is a series of "signifigant emotional events". No one likes to be yelled at and once it happens they have two choices, Correct the behavior or get butt-hurt.
The vast majority of recruits adjust their behavior to avoid being yelled at (or getting Incentive Training). As time goes on they develop self discipline as service members and screaming at them does no good, it only alienates them. In my career I had many an ass-chewing, and I blew 90% of them off as being for stupid shit.
Thwe absolute worst ass chewing I got, as far as it's effectiveness was from my Battery XO. During a movement I and another section chief failed to have our Gun crews replace the protective grommets around the brass rotating bands. As a result the bands got banged up and the Ammo tech had to turn in 10 rounds as grade three. Lt Gunn had to explain to the Bn Commander and the S-4 why the battery had to turn in those rounds. He got his ass chewed royally. When he got back to the battery position he called the other section chief and I up to his Jeep.
I could tell he just went though a horrible ass-chewing and I expected the shit to roll down hill. He simply looked me in the eye and said "Don't do it again". That was it. I felt lower than whale shit, not only for failing to properly supervice my crew but because Lt Gunn got his ass ripped for my screw up.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Dec 18 at 2015 5:26 AM

2015-12-18T05:26:42-05:00

No, if you inflect or raise your voice an octave or two it has the same effect. Clearly, yelling is also effective but when to and where is the balance of the act. I say the history of being loud and yelling at Soldiers does stem from traditional basic, boot or initial training. The depictions in movies and the Internet doesn't help the situation.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Dec 24 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-12-24T19:46:49-05:00

Hollering is not the point that came easy and should be expected. In the USMC during the 1970's that were music to a recruits ear. But there are somethings that goes beyond recruit training, that is not mention today. Motivational Platoon, let me explain for recruits during that time periods, this goes way beyond normal training how you get selected for motivational platoon is for instance after hours in the barracks of practicing parade rest and attention, if you are to slow moving on your commands, its automatic, you will be sent to motivational platoon, which is a sewage drain pit operated on Parris Island, SC., where there is a field about the size of a football field, the drill instructor have long poles that they push your head under the sewage drain because you are nothing but the scum of earth, and you deserve to die you maggot, when you complete these segment you are still not out of the sewage drain pit, at this point you will have to prove to the drill instructors that you are loyal to the pit, and become highly motivated in the pit that you love it, and if you do not love the sewage that's going into your mouth. they will failure you fail you and you will be recycle
to start over, before the force (12) mile death march, where D.I. had the rights to beat you until you are send to the hospital by Jeep if yo didn't die. They always said there are to many people in the world today, die, die, die, you worthless bastard. And that's the real USMC, as I seen it back then, they would kill there own.

Response by SSG Jerry Pannell made Dec 29 at 2015 6:44 AM

2015-12-29T06:44:04-05:00

when i got too basic an got off that cattle truck an all the DI's screaming an yelling made me think what have i got into by the time basic was over I was a different person then when I got their. an still today I thank my DI's for beening tuff on me.

Response by SPC Andrew Quinn made Apr 28 at 2016 3:05 PM

2016-04-28T15:05:31-04:00

It gets them to the point that they can deal with stress and failure. Failure, will come but it is how you deal with it. Get up move on and get the mission done. During combat once the rounds fly no one is ready but we can get out troops as ready as possible. Combat is stressful as all hell. It is not for the weak.

Response by SPC Andrew Quinn made Apr 28 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-04-28T15:09:50-04:00

If we Keep training the way we are we will be training to LOSE the next WAR. Very BADLY Man up Woman up

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made May 5 at 2016 3:06 PM

2016-05-05T15:06:40-04:00

Yes, civilians, and unfortunately, by the looks of some of these responses, military people, can't separate training from hazing. A constant barrage of verbal carnage in a controlled setting may cause someone to wet their drawers initially, but as training and understanding take hold, there is less carnage and more risk/reward for the recruits. There is a behavioral response to it.. an understanding that if one follows orders to the T, then there will less negative contact. If you have a year to work with someone you might be able to lighten up, but in the short amount of time we have to train someone to be a warrior, the imersion into the fire needs to be quick and complete. The ones who can't handle the heat should move from the kitchen to waiting tables.

Response by MSgt Ken Flood made Jul 13 at 2016 10:47 PM

2016-07-13T22:47:13-04:00

I have a bit of a sad story about yelling during Basic Training, obviously I made it through, and had used the tactic a few times in my career. My grandson entered Air Force basic training at 19 years old. He didn't last 3 weeks. He ended up on the floor of the commander's office in the fetal position and was allowed to go home to mommy.
Today at 34 years old he is finally holding down a job for the first time since, at McDonalds!
It wasn't as if he wasn't warned, I did that for him.
All that yelling weeded out a weak link who remains a weak link to this day. He is my grandson and I will always love him but that will not get him out of a dead end job that he wouldn't be stuck in if he had just let someone yell at him!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 12:51 AM

2016-07-14T00:51:30-04:00

If you've decided to join the military and can't handle some yelling and screaming, or being told what to do and how to do it, then you have chosen poorly. Most of the comments here are spot on - you have to break down the civilian to build up the service member.

Response by SP5 John Dotter made Dec 2 at 2016 11:09 PM

2016-12-02T23:09:26-05:00

Imposed discipline instills self-discipline!

Response by SSG Jerry Pannell made Dec 8 at 2016 8:54 PM

2016-12-08T20:54:26-05:00

BCT has gotten soft an if you cannot handle pressure during training then your done need to be gone sry if it sounds harsh but that's life people's life's depend on you being able to handle the stress.

Response by Michael Steele made Apr 3 at 2017 11:32 AM

2017-04-03T11:32:12-04:00

Yes

Response by SSG Ray Murphy made Apr 4 at 2017 6:26 PM

2017-04-04T18:26:53-04:00

wtf is a SSG (Anonymous) and why is it allowed in here using a cowardly moniker?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2017 6:33 PM

2017-04-04T18:33:40-04:00

no this is how we break recruits from there nasty civilian life, to be able to take orders, and follow them, other wise why have recruit training, being in the military isn't high school, we do a job that means discipline, following orders, if you cant do that in basic what good are you in the force, life and death and that's what is real

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made Apr 4 at 2017 6:58 PM

2017-04-04T18:58:54-04:00

I have to kind of laugh at this question when I got to basic My DS had interviews for Platoon leader and squad leader I interviewed. When I walked in and was put at parade rest to answer questions. The DS looked me over while I answered the questions. After the official questions were done he asked if he could ask where the scars on my head came from and he noticed my nose had been broken. I told him they cam from My Dad Living with a angry drunk all your life you get scars. He looked at me at that point and said well yelling at you will do no good we will just have work around that. I don't remember any DS in my basic unit ever yelling at me. Not to say I didn't get dropped I did that plenty but they just didn't take the yelling approach with me.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Apr 4 at 2017 7:00 PM

2017-04-04T19:00:51-04:00

I am not gonna lie most of it was time I was talked to in a stern manner it was loud and clear, but not even close to what I experienced from my own dad. I guess my dad was my first TI in a sense. I do remember once being yelled at by a TI because I happened to be standing in his way. That time I had no clue what he was yelling at. He was loud but not very clear. Took a few seconds to figure it out, but I got it.
Yelling didn't really teach me anything other than trying to avoid the yelling. I did not learn any valuable lessons from it. I learned my focus when I when to technical school. That is where I learned that attention to detail could be a matter of life and death.

Response by PO1 Robert Chalmers made Apr 4 at 2017 7:54 PM

2017-04-04T19:54:22-04:00

Is the enemy going to let these snowflakes have a safe zone on the battlefield? I doubt it.

Response by Sgt Christopher Delagarza made Apr 4 at 2017 8:02 PM

2017-04-04T20:02:51-04:00

I've had one or two people bring up the whole topic of why they yell at us and why they're so ugly and mean to us. I told them because there's nothing nice about what we do. Warfare and combat are as ugly and miserable as it gets. The drill instructors need to set your expectations correctly for what you're gonna be doing and the places you're gonna go. It's a shock for a lot of kids getting off that bus and on those yellow foot prints. It's a reality check and letting them know that they're not at some summer camp to make friends and have fun.

Response by SGT Sunny Lalingua made Apr 4 at 2017 8:20 PM

2017-04-04T20:20:33-04:00

If we don't teach our recruits how to handle a little yelling in basic, what will the magical training be to help them cope/deal/respond/perform properly in a firefight? What if they were captured? Does no one think the prisoner isn't going to be yelled at, beaten, assaulted, broken? Ask any former P.O.W. what life was like during their capture and confinement? Resort Disney....?

Response by SP5 Robert Ruck made Apr 5 at 2017 12:30 AM

2017-04-05T00:30:06-04:00

Snowflakes and the Army. Hmmm. What could possibly go wrong? Yell your a-- off Drill Sargeant. If they cry.... yell some more but louder.

Response by SSG Eduardo Ybarra Jr. MS Psyc made Apr 5 at 2017 6:14 PM

2017-04-05T18:14:02-04:00

The idea of hollering at new recruits is (in my opinion) essential in order to foster a mentality that moving with a purpose and following orders is paramount. This type of "treatment" is fundamentally important when on the battlefield. We do not use "our inside" voice when the bullets are flying and the bombs are exploding we speak in a loud and concise manner in order to save lives and accomplish the mission. To take hollering from a DS or DI as personal shows one's weakness to stress and lack of self-esteem.

Yes there are times when the hollering can be annoying and irritating but this is used to ensure the one on the receiving end understands the objective of the mission given to them. If told to move then move with a purpose, if told to clean then clean like you're cleaning the Commander-in-Chiefs house. Everything is for a purpose and hollering never hurt those who knew why there were there in the first place. The military is not in the business of coddling, it is in the business of preserving democracy and freedom to those who would otherwise live in a state of deprivation. Mediocrity is not a function of the military, we don't embrace it nor reward it. Either strive for the best or change professions.

Before people enlist they need to ask themselves some fundamental questions: Do I really need to be here? Am I really cut out to do this or am I trying to impress someone? And the last and most important, Am I willing to lay down my life for a stranger? If the answers were yes then hollering is just another facet to the career choice.

Response by SFC Timothy N. Livengood made Apr 7 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-04-07T15:19:30-04:00

It certainly allows you to find who you are and what you are capable of. The Military is in my opinion designed to break you down and build you up so that you know what you are made of. Are you Military material or not. Put on the big boy or girl pants and soldier up.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Apr 13 at 2017 1:10 PM

2017-04-13T13:10:16-04:00

Yelling... DS/DI/MCI'S don't yell anymore... They talk loud so everyone can hear em... Are we all that stupid? 100-300 brand freaking new recruiters, gotta hear everything clearly, because these new stack on shitbags can or don't comprehend anything anymore. My parents were hard on us kids growing up, which made basic the much more easier on those of us who joined up. 3-6 isn't the bad when 2 who didn't join we're the first two girls of the house. But yet, I'm still not scared of them then I ever was off a DS in my face. Once you understand that all you gotta do is what they require of you, basic is pretty damn simple. Run, walk, March, shoot, strange a mother fucker... It's pretty damn simple

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Apr 20 at 2017 5:32 PM

2017-04-20T17:32:41-04:00

no, it does not promote professionalism, but it's not suppose to, its suppose to help with handling yourself under pressure and duress, nothing to do with professionalism.

Response by MSG Barry Kerby made Oct 16 at 2018 10:10 PM

2018-10-16T22:10:36-04:00

Yes. Just as hollering at your children should foster a learning curve that teaches that child what is right and what is deadly in the world. It must be done with respect and the best intentions to develop thinking patterns. I guarantee your local TB commander doesn't give a shit about your mental health.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2018 11:34 AM

2018-10-18T11:34:35-04:00

I really hat this "professional force" everyone keeps talking about. Nobody is just a "professional." When your girlfriend's dad asks what you do for a living you say "Oh well I'm a professional" and leave it at that. You have to be a professional something. In the military, we are professional killers. We get paid to end lives or exposure the ending of lives. That's the whole point of an armed force. Keeping in mind that we are professional killers, tell me this: how does yelling, swearing, or fighting not fit into the professional ethics of a Soldier?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2018 12:11 PM

2018-10-18T12:11:25-04:00

I had a 6 month police academy under my belt when I enlisted and was 39 at BCT. So BCT was like being a rat in a maze knowing I’m part of a controlled experiment.

Sadly, there seemed to be nothing I could do to clue the kids in to what was going to happen. There is no winning. Just play the game. Push-ups aren’t punishment. They call it that, but we are doing a million here wether we like it or not. Call it what you want exercise or punishment we are doing a million before we are done.

Same goes with the designed failures. We got our phones one day and returning them was based on the honor system. When we turned them in there a property register was made. So right off the bat I knew we were screwed. Yep someone kept theirs and the DIs turned the place upside down.

BCT isn’t even one fiscal quarter long, I don’t talk to my family between holiday seasons so can’t you brats wait a few weeks. GOOD LORD

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2018 12:50 PM

2018-10-18T12:50:25-04:00

I'd submit that those who are so thin skinned that they can't take the yelling shouldn't be in the military. It therefore acts as a sort of filter for the weak. It also sets the tone of dominance immediately. The Drill Sergeant is not interested in your opinion, and you do not have the experience to have a say in the way training should be conducted.

At the same time, the Drill Sergeants are some of the hardest working, most stressed, and most separated NCOs from their families, given the time they have to commit, especially during red-cycle. Behind the scenes, there's an extreme amount of pressure to remain professional. The system works. It has for decades. Stop questioning it or get out! lol

Response by CPT Derial Bivens made Oct 18 at 2018 1:49 PM

2018-10-18T13:49:15-04:00

If you can't handle the stress of being yelled at, how can you handle the stress of an incoming artillery barrage?!?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2018 2:00 PM

2018-10-18T14:00:24-04:00

It makes you focus on the task at hand and block out what is happing around you.."fog of war" much?

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Oct 18 at 2018 4:38 PM

2018-10-18T16:38:20-04:00

In high school I was a D- student after the Army I went to college and graduated Cum Laude! Went on to become a police officer and graduated top recruit and was highly decorated! You tell me!

Response by SrA John Monette made Oct 18 at 2018 4:43 PM

2018-10-18T16:43:52-04:00

it's not hollering. it's speaking in a loud, authoritative voice. I wouldn't say it fosters professionalism. I would say it fosters motiviation

Response by SSG Shauna Holmes made Oct 18 at 2018 5:17 PM

2018-10-18T17:17:47-04:00

Professionalism in the military is proven at lower eschalons by SURVIVING encounters.
At upper eschalons, yeah, one will need to use soft skills because then you're encountering the "real world".

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 18 at 2018 5:27 PM

2018-10-18T17:27:39-04:00

For all intensive purposes the output of basic is to produce individuals that let the air out of other people. As such I see no problem in all the yelling.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Oct 18 at 2018 8:03 PM

2018-10-18T20:03:18-04:00

I have really been sitting here trying to think how to reply to this post. I don’t believe that yelling at your Soldiers all the time is the right thing to do, but there are going to be times you will have to. Don’t be afraid to yell at them, sometimes it’s the only way to get their attention, just know when and how to do it

Response by SPC Christopher McMahon made Oct 19 at 2018 1:17 AM

2018-10-19T01:17:17-04:00

I can’t believe a Staff Sergeant in the United States Army, is asking this question. Things must have changed quite a bit since I was in.

Response by PO3 David Davis made Oct 19 at 2018 1:22 AM

2018-10-19T01:22:07-04:00

I saw some recent Narine boot camp videos, the drill instructors were steaming and having recruits scream,. Everyone was loosing there voices. Projecting your voice into a yell, is how it should be done.

Response by PO1 Michael Bruner made Oct 19 at 2018 7:09 AM

2018-10-19T07:09:30-04:00

I was screamed at, cussed at & insulted. And I'm a better person for it.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Oct 19 at 2018 8:34 AM

2018-10-19T08:34:08-04:00

Drill Sergeant go to school for a reason and that is to train soldiers to KILL and be men and women not little girls and boys, If you have a problem at someone yelling at you in training or yelling at one of your kids, you need to grow some balls because that what Drill Sergeants do to Motivate the soldier to do something. They used to be able to grab you and touch you but I see it that it's not your kid anymore once they leave home and join the Army or whatever force they belong to because once they take that OATH they belong to the Army or whatever force they belong too. Too many babies out there with their children.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 12:28 PM

2019-01-02T12:28:15-05:00

If you can’t take another grown person talking loudly in your direction maybe you shouldn’t be in the military

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 12:32 PM

2019-01-02T12:32:51-05:00

Leaders need to use good judgement when choosing to yell at subordinates and understand that too much loses affect, but the young recruit needs to suck it up!

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Jan 2 at 2019 12:37 PM

2019-01-02T12:37:35-05:00

Remember when we used to compare soldiers to metal. Cast iron is fragile, weak, & not good for many things. Hammered, high carbon steel is sharp, hardened, & strong. Many in today's Army think recruits should be like pot metal. Cheap, nearly worthless, & weak. Yelling, stress, & challenges make for strong troops. We need strong a steel troops.

Response by SN Mike Duffy made Jan 2 at 2019 3:32 PM

2019-01-02T15:32:49-05:00

I remember an older guy in boot camp. He said I don't like people telling me what to do. I said you got off at the wrong bus stop.

Response by SP5 Lori Pong made Jan 2 at 2019 7:43 PM

2019-01-02T19:43:35-05:00

Some recruits have never been yelled at in their entire life scary thought. key rule is don't screw up you won't get yelled at.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2019 10:29 PM

2019-10-09T22:29:05-04:00

Only cowards are afraid of getting yelled at. There’s hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) people on the other side of our oceans that want to cut ours and our children’s heads off simply because we’re American yet there are people in the military that think getting yelled at is unprofessional. Nothing builds character like a whole mess of stress!! Soldiers who can’t handle a little screaming are definitely gonna fail the gunfight exam.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2020 4:06 PM

2020-01-05T16:06:39-05:00

I think yelling Has a time and a place. It can be a useful tool. Boot camp is a good place to introduce it. Most people who go through boot camp aren’t used to the kind of stress that is inherently in the military. Yelling induces the stress and shows how they will think. Do I think any one should yell at someone for no reason with no purpose no. But sometimes yelling gets through to people. I was never a yeller. But I found myself quite recently yelling at a sailor be side nothing else would correct the severe lack of professionalism and respect warranted between two sailors. I wouldn’t say just yelling at someone for the sake of yelling is productive in any place but boot camp.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2020 4:23 PM

2020-01-05T16:23:44-05:00

If you can’t take another grown man/woman talking loudly in your direction this might not be for you

Response by SFC James Cameron made Jan 5 at 2020 4:40 PM

2020-01-05T16:40:26-05:00

All the answers you seek are in TR 350-6.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jan 5 at 2020 10:23 PM

2020-01-05T22:23:05-05:00

You are practicing for when the shit hits the fan.

Response by SPC John Tesh made Jan 6 at 2020 2:56 AM

2020-01-06T02:56:26-05:00

I guess I may have missed that part in basic training. We got yelled at, but honestly I was apathetic towards it as my step-father yelled at me and treated me like shit and beat my ass into the ground before I even joined the Army. The yelling from the Drill Sgts just went in one ear and out the other with me and I honestly ignored it and just kept my head down when shit went off. You know what though, I was still a shit hot solider and an even better medic to my unit. I still managed to serve 4 1/2 years before PTSD and a leg injury got me. Yelling has it's purpose I suppose, but it really didn't affect me in the slightest and when I was a team leader I never yelled as I felt it did no good.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Sep 24 at 2020 11:12 AM

2020-09-24T11:12:23-04:00

Well you got your wish, now we can all be part of the gentler Army, the one wear we all get issued a box of tissues before get off the bus. We hold hands and sing Koom by Ah.. So the next time you tell a soldier to do something, and they prefer to keep their hand in their pocket and read their cell phone. Remember, you asked for it.

The Prussian General Frederik the Great was quoted as saying that soldiers should be more afraid of their leaders then they are of the enemy." Was he right? You decide.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 12 at 2022 10:11 AM

2022-03-12T10:11:28-05:00

Hollering helps place the new service member in a heightened level of stress. Performing your duties under stress in the military is a constant.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 12 at 2022 10:40 AM

2022-03-12T10:40:01-05:00

My dad went through army basic and air borne school in 1948. He yelled worse than the drills at Air Force basic in 1977.