Does it bother you to see Soldiers in ACUs during accountability formation prior to morning PT?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:54:56 -0400

SMA Daily considers morning PT his sanctity time. http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/20/sma-dan-dailey-physical-fitness-plan/25934579/
I just watched a young (first-time enlister) get flagged for failing a record height and weight. I noticed that he misses a lot of morning PT because he has medical appointments for the very thing that causes him to be on profile. I think the Army has lost it's focus towards the value of having morning PT conducted. I believe that this is one of the most important training events of the day and all else (other than directed missions) should work around PT, not the other way around. I'm tired of hearing about leaders mandating early morning meetings during this time. I want to be with my Soldiers and assess their athleticism while building comradery. Am I over-reacting? I don't think I am.

SMA's 7-day workout plan will kick your butt

As Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey calls on soldiers across the Army to do PT, he's leading from the front with a tough daily regimen.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 10:57 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:57:42 -0400

Not only is conditioning important, it is part of the Service members job.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 11:03 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 11:03:49 -0400

In the event this comes up, a little chat with the Soldier's NCO will ensure that his PT session gets done daily despite appointments. Plenty of time in a day, after all.
A more focused session targeting the Soldier's deficiencies is more productive anyway.
I'll bet the appointment conflict goes away...

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 8 at 2015 11:05 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 11:05:32 -0400

There's a lot of factors at play here.

Let's look at a couple pragmatic ones, like scheduling of appointments. Scheduling them at the beginning and end of days "just makes sense" as it doesn't interrupt the normal workday. Most leaders will "prefer" if not "insist" on that. Losing someone for several hours in the middle of the day just creates more issues than it is worth, because of inconvenience.

Now that said, PT does not have to be conducted in the morning. We do that as a matter of convenience as well. Just like we are scheduling other appointments. We could just as easily do it pre or post chow, or at the end of the day. We choose to do it in the morning to eliminate other conflicts.

Although we used to have Unit PT in the mornings 0600-0700, when we did squad/section or platoon level PT we would vary it up throughout the day. This allowed us to have a more robust training schedule and avoid issues like the one you mention above.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Aug 8 at 2015 11:15 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 11:15:48 -0400

This was a tough question to answer MSG Private RallyPoint Member. PT is certainly important for both conditioning individual soldiers and reinforcing esprit de corps within the unit. That being said critical appointments should be scheduled as soon as possible; but, routine appointments should be scheduled later in the day.
I have to wonder, if while in garrison, there are unit training or inspection requirements later in the day which are considered more important by the chain-of-command periodically. In those instances, getting all routine appointments taken care of early may make sense if it helps to have a maximum unit strength available later in the morning.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 11:43 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 11:43:03 -0400

I'll be 100% honest and some of you might agree. Physical training with the unit is absolutely useless. The whole concept of training is lost 99.9% of the time. In the interest of decreasing numbers, let's get work call set at 0800 and you pt on your own. Take pt test quarterly, and those who didn't take their own time to prepare... Well see Ya. I fully agree it's a SMs personal responsibility, I also feel that it's a waist of time at unit level. Your thoughts.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Aug 8 at 2015 12:21 PM

COL Ted Mc — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 12:21:20 -0400

I always hated PT.

I never skipped it.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 8 at 2015 12:22 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 12:22:24 -0400

No, it never bothered me. We all had reasons for missing morning formations on occasion. While unit PT is important, bottom line is that passing the APFT and H&W are individual responsibilities. I think you make some very valid points especially about evaluating your soldiers and building comradery. Other than sick call, not sure why medical appointments would be that early in the AM.

Response by SPC Americo Garcia made Aug 8 at 2015 1:05 PM

SPC Americo Garcia — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:05:19 -0400

I agree with both SFC(P) Peter Sutherland, and MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca It is a team building exercise as well as to maintain individual standards. The PFT is the important one. If the Soldier ,Marine, Airmen, or Sailor can not do well it is his command and unit to fix that. It should also reflect is such said person volunteers to do remedial PT to fix his own problem. Personal responsibility should be always welcomed as well. reduction in rank should take place or even holding back of promotions. Make them work and earn their rank. After all we can only be a certain rank for so long?
As a person who did struggle with weight and later due to injury had a profile. Motivation is key to getting it done. I was promotable to Sgt but my reg's kept me out, as well as the next contract to finish for my twenty. I still have the opportunity to do so. Just have to want it or how bad one wants it. No excuses heck I have been slowly working out to try that I will let you know if I succeed but have to try first.

Response by Sgt Ken Prescott made Aug 8 at 2015 1:12 PM

Sgt Ken Prescott — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:12:30 -0400

Physical fitness is a personal commitment. Unit PT is useful for building morale, but it's not improving overall fitness unless your guy really is the weakest link in the unit, and then you've got other issues.

If I ever had a Marine who was behind the power curve on fitness, I worked with him one-on-one to improve. If that meant skipping unit PT to focus on my Marine's needs, I spoke to my chain of command about it. A funny thing happened: those closest to me in the chain of command liked that I was working with my Marine to improve his fitness. Those higher up saw a junior NCO missing from squadron-level PT, and pointedly asked stupid questions about my commitment to the Corps.

Ultimately, the question is: what purpose is served by unit PT?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 2:06 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 14:06:51 -0400

Man, I wish the AF had this...in my squadron, it's "figure out when to work out on your own".

Now, do I think that no one should ever be excused for any reason? No. And if you have a soldier on a profile, then he probably does need medical attention to get off the profile...are you doing anything to give him PT time after work? During the day? Have you talked to him about scheduling his medical appointments for a different time? Is he doing workouts that still prevent further injury, as directed by his profile?

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 5:26 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 17:26:07 -0400

If they have a mission that requires the uniform to be ACU's but if it doesnt then Lottie Dottie everybody should be in PT's.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 6:06 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:06:36 -0400

It only bothers me when Soldiers are missing PT for bogus reasons. I know my last Battalion had a no appointments before or during PT hours policy and for the most part it seemed to work. Also, many units had second PT sessions held in the afternoon for Soldiers who missed morning PT.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 6:25 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:25:48 -0400

I hate getting up before the birds and doing exercise. My body is cold and stiff and I have not had any energy supply (food) for 6-8 hours. I find that I am more motivated, and do better workouts when I do them in the late afternoon or early evening. I know that the summer heat makes this more difficult, and I often find myself doing cardio late in the night when it is hot. I have been to AT where we try to do morning PT and I have been to AT where we are trusted to show up at the work site at given time and do PT on our own. Maybe it's because I have been part-time for so many years, but I really like the do it on your on schedule.

As far as camaraderie building, I have yet to see the situation where you don't get at least a few responses to "I'm going on a run..anyone want to join me", finding workout partners for the free weights that someone inevitably brings to AT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 10:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 22:18:23 -0400

I understand that extenuating circumstances may arise to keep a Soldier from doing PT. But when it becomes a pattern and their score is suffering, more attention should be paid to that individual. Senior ranking Soldiers these days are the most guilty of this, as they see that they are above the regulation... This should not stand.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 5:39 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 05:39:31 -0400

I think the problem start with seniors been lazy... Crap role down hill. Too many platoon sergeants show up in duty uniform because they have stuff going on. common now!!!

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Aug 10 at 2015 8:41 AM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:41:11 -0400

My leaders have always said that PT isn't used to get in shape or stay in shape. Personally, I think PT is a waste of time outside of efforts to improve teamwork. I could get a much better and personalized workout in the gym by myself. Yes, some soldiers intentionally schedule appointments at this time. In Hawaii, it's best to schedule appointments first thing in the morning because that's the easy way to deal with parking. You save a large chunk of time by going early in the morning instead of going to work, commuting to the appointment and then commuting back to work. We also have to realize there are limitations on the availability of appointments.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Aug 10 at 2015 10:34 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:34:09 -0400

Only if they are not going directly to work. And appointments happen on the Soldiers request.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 12:08 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 May 2019 00:08:47 -0400

I understand the importance of PT but whenever I was injured I scheduled all my physical therapy appointments during PT. I did this because of over zealous NCO'S and other leadership. Having a run at own pace and distance profile and the 1SG turns the whole formation around and picks you up was one instance. So check yourself and your Soldiers and make sure you are soing right by them. I did 20yrs and had a hip replacement at year 16 then I went to Ft Campbell and the leadership tried to pressure badger and threaten me to go to air assault school. For 2yrs they made my life miserable. Enough ranting.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 2 at 2019 5:30 AM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 02 Jul 2019 05:30:45 -0400

It may be an Army thing, but when is your first formation?

Marine Corps Time (At least was)
Reveille - 0530
PT formation - 0600 (Not many support services open for business)
Morning Quarters Formation - 0800