Does it irk you when retirees continue to wear their rank?

2014-12-21T03:09:51-05:00

We've all worked with that DAC or Contractor that never lets you forget what pay grade they retired at. And is it just me or is it more times than not they were a senior NCO.

I applaud you for giving 20+ years to the armed forces. But once you retired, you took the rank off and no longer have troops. Respect me and I'll show you the respect commensurate with your current job/position.

********UPDATE********

Guys (gender neutral), sorry I didn't clarify my question better and may have confused more than a few people. I apologize.

I wasn't referring to those retired members that may wear their rank on their ball cap, motorcycle vest etc. I was mainly referring to those members that give you the impression that they want to conduct in-ranks inspections, have trouble adjusting to civilian life where it's less structured, or have a hard time not being a 'shot caller' for lack of a better word.

Again my apologies and no disrespect intended towards anyone.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Dec 21 at 2014 5:54 AM

2014-12-21T05:54:14-05:00

I've seen it both ways SSG Private RallyPoint Member. There are those who have retired or no longer serve who still "wear" their former rank and use it in a way that, at times, is not commensurate with their current position. For some, it is a difficult transition and to be quite frank, doing the job for 20+ and then not takes some time to get used to for some (I would assume). Then there are those who transition and have no problem leaving their former rank on their last uniform that they have hung up in their closet. I think that the important thing to do is to always remain professional, even when someone is trying to "pull former rank." I know from experience that is tough, but it is necessary to ensure that the workplace remains functional and productive. And remember, everyone has a supervisor. If something cannot be handled at the lowest level, then elevate it.

Response by SSG Ike Phelan made Dec 21 at 2014 11:23 AM

2014-12-21T11:23:40-05:00

I agree with MSG Stankovich he always has a good point of view. I am retired and I would never wear my rank out unless it was on a t-shirt or something and I think it is a little sill to try and use your former rank in any way shape or form. I loved my time in the military and to be honest I wish I was still in but I know I am not and that is a door that is now closed to me but I would love to have a job were I could be around my brothers again and I do not see my self even bring up what rank I was while I was serving seeing as it would have no bearing on my current status in life.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 11:47 AM

2014-12-21T11:47:21-05:00

I agree with both 1SG Steven Stankovich and SSG Ike Phelan. There are some retirees, and I would say veteran non-retirees, who do throw their former rank around like if it's something to be honored. I just recently retired and it has been very tough getting used to civilian things but one thing I have never done is throw my former rank out there, primarily because I'm low man on the totem pole at work but also because it's just not right. I go onto Fort Hood a few times a week. When I do, I'm always courteous and professional with the Soldiers manning the gates and I address them appropriately. About half the time, they will respond back addressing me with my former rank (it's actually in the regs regarding this type of addressing), which is neat to still talk to Soldiers.

As MSG mentioned, it is a hard transition since the military is all most of us have known our adult life. Until one has experienced it, I recommend going easy on some of the retirees since I bet underneath they are struggling with their transition. The hard part is figuring out which ones are doing it just because they truly are jerks. I believe this group is a very tiny percentage of all retirees.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Dec 21 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-12-21T12:06:22-05:00

Wear their rank? No. They earned it. Still act like they have the authority of that rank? Yes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 12:22 PM

2014-12-21T12:22:29-05:00

it doesnt bother me that they "adorn" clothing with their rank, like head gear etc, but when they act like they are still the SGM, CSM from "8 months ago" when they were still serving, yes that annoys me. You lost that power, now enjoy your retirement... One day I too will be retired and I will celebrate my service by representing my achievements within the military, and some SSG will tell me to let it go... its a way of life, I am sure it is hard to just "let it go". This isnt Frozen. jk

Response by SPC Michael Savage made Dec 21 at 2014 12:22 PM

2014-12-21T12:22:53-05:00

The only reason a person would continue to use rank to define themselves are people who lose their identities outside of the word "Sargeant". Aquire skills that make you connect with others and learn to be a civilian. I was only an E-4. I knew my rank in the Army never defined me. It was just a job title for a moment. I get plenty of respect because I have been in the service but I never talk about Valor. When I go to the VA hospital and see e-5 through e-9 rank on a vet I feel they need to let it go.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Dec 21 at 2014 12:45 PM

2014-12-21T12:45:51-05:00

I try to put my Superman underoos on one leg at a time.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Dec 21 at 2014 1:07 PM

2014-12-21T13:07:46-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member,

While I was on active duty, I can not really remember an incident where a civilian brought up their previous military rank to persuade me or intimidate. May because of my rank when I worked with DACs and Contractors. I did however have some that did not think they worked for me or answered to me (even though I was taking flak from their actions), which I quickly took care of.

Although I just recently retired, I have personally experienced the opposite. Where current Military, veterans, and civilians often refer to my rank as not able to understand what is going on or how to execute common tasks. As it relates to Civilian Policing, I was actually asked if I knew how to break down and clean my G22 after a range (because in their limited knowledge of the Military they thought other people took care of that for Officers).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 1:13 PM

2014-12-21T13:13:47-05:00

In contracting, the only quality I truly respect is competence. A lot of people manage to fail into contract jobs and fall back on their rank when their competence is questioned.

I certainly respect the fact that someone served, but if that person can't do the job, their service background is immaterial.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Dec 21 at 2014 1:55 PM

2014-12-21T13:55:18-05:00

I understand what you mean. I loved my career but I love being retired more. I don't miss much from my time except for the people. As far as thinking that I am in charge of those around me, I do not, although some could use stern leadership or boot to the butt.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Dec 21 at 2014 1:52 PM

2014-12-21T13:52:41-05:00

As a Food Inspector, I work in a commissary. My commissary has more retirees than active duty shoppers. The best part about my day is talking to those guys (esp. the WWII and Vietnam vets). I love listening to their stories as much as they love talking about them.

Do I get irked about people wearing the rank they earned...no way, it was earned by them! Those that I find myself getting irked at are those 'newer' retired guys who are still pissed because they no longer have troops to kick around. They are the ones that I tend to get 'irked' by...

That all being said, I love all of my brothers and sisters...even the 'mean' ones. Sometimes, they just want to be listened to, I try to be understanding that they just may be having a bad day.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 21 at 2014 2:05 PM

2014-12-21T14:05:09-05:00

Wear it? Like chevrons on a vest, hat jacket etc? No.

Wear it like Cartman from Southpark? "You will respect my authority". Yes. You are are retired.

I think that everyone should be proud of their accomplishments. Example, hoping to make CMSgt (E-9). If I do, and then retire, those stripes will likely show up in the form of a Tat, accompanied by my USMC Sgt stripes, which some may say is silly-but both of which I would be proud as hell of, and are a major part of my life....

Everybody is so different about how they represent. The key is that I will be honored if my military accomplishments/history/whatever get brought up positively; I will not just randomly come into work and say "I am a retired .....and this is how we are going to do it"

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 21 at 2014 2:10 PM

2014-12-21T14:10:11-05:00

There are several retired E9s that work on base as GS12's. Those that continue to hold themselves to the Chief standard, I continue to call Chief!

Response by 1SG David Niles made Dec 21 at 2014 2:50 PM

2014-12-21T14:50:39-05:00

Nope, not one bit, I wear mine on my VFW head Gear, I wear mine on my Motorcycle Vest, I where mine on my Service Hat. I earned it and I will wear it. If it bugs you, look away. Oh, since I retired, I am subject to recall, which means, it is still my rank and that is the rank I will be recalled with.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 4:29 PM

2014-12-21T16:29:37-05:00

NCO's started as PVT's, who (for the most part) took up the uniform with courage, honor, selfless service, and pride in their country. These young nobodies worked hard and achieved something they were proud of for a country they were proud of. They went through the hardest conditions, and after 20 years felt proud of their accomplishment. That is probably why it is typically the senior NCO who wants to hold on to their accomplishment.
Personally, as a senior NCO, I never wear my uniform out even now unless I can't easily avoid it, but I have no qualms with the retiree that wants to hold on to their past accomplishment. Who knows, it might be all they have, or they are seeking attention because they feel like nobody again. So, if I see this retiree, I will give them attention and thanks. But they better not try to give commands to some young dumb soldier on a military post

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 4:51 PM

2014-12-21T16:51:37-05:00

it doesn't irk me as much as when a reservist or guardsman tries to pull the same thing when they are in "civilian status".

Response by SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. made Dec 21 at 2014 5:08 PM

2014-12-21T17:08:55-05:00

Wearing the rank as mentioned in other posts in various forms I see is fine as long as its appropriate. I myself dont do it. Wear the retired pin from time to time but thats it.
As for the authority part or thinking your still in that position. Not so much.
Being a DAC, I worked 2 years in an infantry OSUT unit and currently with marine AIT students. Though Ive been told to let the DS or NCO/SNCO handle issues. But there are times, details for instance especially away from the barracks, where their NCOs are not around that a little of the old authority comes into play i.e when the trainees get a little out of hand or when supposed to be working kust aboid doing anything. Also when safety is at issue. While on my details im responsible for them. I would really get fired up in my arms room when the DS wouldnt be in there during initial weapon issue and the trainees would do sommething stupid like point the weapon at me or someone else. The Marines take care of themselves pretty much but the OSUT students were a different story when the DS wasnt around

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Dec 21 at 2014 5:11 PM

2014-12-21T17:11:29-05:00

Unfortunately the ones who were "tools" while AD are still "tools" after retirement. Believe me I was fully retired from the Army as a E-4 with full retirement benefits because of a stupid error that resulted in permanent disability PDRL. The line of duty investigation done by the Army and the resulting injuries required it. Those same tools are irate about me. If that helps any. I don't wear any pieces of my uniform. That's for you.

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Dec 21 at 2014 6:03 PM

2014-12-21T18:03:58-05:00

I agree with the many others that posted before me. They earned it. I just talked to a retired SM at the family restaurant the other night, and he still wore his with pride.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 6:11 PM

2014-12-21T18:11:26-05:00

I see what you mean, and I completely understand, however, as it was put to me by a retired E-9, "if someone has to remind you who they were then obviously they aren't doing a good job of displaying effective leadership." On the other hand, guys who proudly wear their rank after retirement because they are proud it's awesome, and there's nothing more that I enjoy than finding an old Vet out in public and seeing their achievements prominently displayed on their hat/vest/ect...

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Dec 21 at 2014 8:48 PM

2014-12-21T20:48:57-05:00

Its a fight we've all fought before. But you can't win.

Response by SSG Peter Muse made Dec 21 at 2014 8:56 PM

2014-12-21T20:56:47-05:00

I understood the question of "wearing rank" not to be physically adorning the emblem but acting the military part, mostly in terms of entitlements for treatment according to their military rank. In my last job I supervised an AD Army CPT and a former CPT (03s), two former SGMs, and a bunch of AD E7s. I was the only one in the group not retired. My direct supervisor was an 05. He often addressed the former SGM as SGM.... another of my peers, a retired SGM made a lot of comments about how I was ever even allowed to get that job as a non retiree and certainly not having made E7 - If you go to certain military organizations with heavy civilian populations (Ft. Bragg is one) you will find a lot of people still very much use their military rank and are recognized as such by all around.

Response by CPO John Tuite made Dec 21 at 2014 9:09 PM

2014-12-21T21:09:37-05:00

I have asked every one who knows me to call me by my first name now that I have retired. For 27 years I was never called by my first name, for 18 years it was my last name and for the last 8+ was Chief.... Now I am John and dammed glad to meet you. If you ask I will tell you what I retired as but only if you ask

Response by SPC Fred Lytge made Dec 21 at 2014 10:24 PM

2014-12-21T22:24:00-05:00

No, they did earn their rank and once you are you always are....

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Dec 21 at 2014 11:22 PM

2014-12-21T23:22:49-05:00

I don't have enough rank to be worth wearing, but that doesn't mean I won't bring every tool at hand to bear when I am confronted with a disrespectful, lazy or incompetent (poorly trained) NCO.

I also will insist on proper military courtesy, and I will lead by example on that point.

Last, but far from least, I will also attempt to steer the conversation in the direction of identifying the best corrective action for whatever professional lapse I have observed -- such as taking an irate young buck sergeant aside and pointing out that screaming "Shut the f*** up!" in a private's face lacks the inherent reminder of military authority inherent in "At ease, private!" And, when the NCO in question is reluctant to accept my advice, I have a pretty decent track record of politely getting my point across by following up a few steps up his NCO chain.

If that constitutes "wearing my rank", then I'm very guilty and not at all sorry about it.

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Dec 21 at 2014 11:58 PM

2014-12-21T23:58:32-05:00

I was med retired as an E7 and I do wear brass stripes on my "US Army Retired" hat along with pins of some of the units I served with. I do so because I am proud of my accomplishments. I will never use my FORMER rank as a tool but if I ever see a soldier do something wrong I would discretely point out their error. To be proud of who you were is not a cry for help, a sign of not being able to adjust or a tool. It just says "I made it" and sometimes I have a young person approach me and ask advice on joining the military. Be proud but not prideful or boastful.

Response by SSG Steve Vincent made Dec 22 at 2014 12:23 AM

2014-12-22T00:23:53-05:00

I would wear my rank but it's for just me to remember the good times I had but just on my hat and truck just to show my pride , about respect is earned not given . HOOAH

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Dec 22 at 2014 1:20 AM

2014-12-22T01:20:00-05:00

Ssg Marvin Mann, I think your misguided. When one earns rank serving your country it is honorable to display what you have achieved. I do not understand how you can believe it is disrespectful? As far as having troops under you, well there are many military positions to which your position might not have any troops under your direct command.

I think you should be proud to serve in their footsteps and be proud of what you have achieved.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 1:45 AM

2014-12-22T01:45:35-05:00

All good responses. I really wasn't refering to the guys that 'wear' their rank on a ball cap per say. I was mainly refering to the one's that give you the impression that they want to conduct in-ranks inspections, or they just can't handle being in an environment that isn't super structured, or they've had issues adjusting to retirement and for lack of a better word not being a 'shot caller'.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 22 at 2014 1:53 AM

2014-12-22T01:53:15-05:00

A retiree earned their rank. So yeah I have no issue with them wearing it. Acting like they're still that rank? No. Unless they're your boss, they have no authority over you.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Dec 22 at 2014 1:59 AM

2014-12-22T01:59:36-05:00

Retirees don't take their rank off, and it's written on their id card for a reason. When you do 20+ years, your usually about the military community, and doesn't go away because you retire.
I guess the question is why the retiree is telling his rank. creditability maybe? sharing with you his experience and insight like we're doing on Rally Point or trying to make a correction. usually the latter is the issue. If you doing something inconsistent with military standards, and somebody call you on it and they're right, just fix it.
I feel retired NCOs and Officers are still NCOs and officers; they have a responsibility to help maintain the professionalism of the Armed Forces

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 10:49 AM

2014-12-22T10:49:46-05:00

I agree 100%, SSG Private RallyPoint Member. When you retire, you doff the uniform and the associated rank, with the possible exception of senior officers (mostly GOs), who are often still called by their rank, just as a matter of respect.

Response by SSG John Erny made Dec 22 at 2014 11:58 AM

2014-12-22T11:58:18-05:00

It is approved to wear the uniform when retired at certain functions like military funerals, patriotic holidays, etc. In a setting like that a retired person should refrain from using their rank other than a professional manner. Saluting and officer and such.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Dec 22 at 2014 12:05 PM

2014-12-22T12:05:57-05:00

When I still wore neckties to work, one of my tie-pins was a rank pin.

As others have said: wear it? fine. Try to exert your former authority? Lol.

Response by SSG Tom Goffe made Dec 22 at 2014 12:04 PM

2014-12-22T12:04:07-05:00

Once you take off the uniform, the rank comes off with it. It is harder for some to realize that than others - I get that. Assimilating into the civilian culture where camraderie, espirit and teamwork hold less meaning than in the military can be difficult.

But whether a retired E-6 is now a GS-5 pinhole inspector in the Poncho Department of the CIF or a politician who lords his status as a retired O-5 on all his campaign literature the result is (in my mind) the same: here is a martinet who probably has a minor personality defect. Leave your past military glory on your resume along with what you did before and after your service.

I tend to admire the quiet professional more who might wear a military award lapel pin at most. Calling attention to being a veteran just isn't my thing. Be proud of serving America, but don't add to the notion that it makes you somehow more worthy of adulation than lesser mortals. Personally, I admire firefighters or those who nurse elderly shut-ins more than many of my fellow veterans.

Response by SPC Sven Pacot made Dec 22 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-12-22T12:06:19-05:00

There are many who have made the point that once we're out we are subject to recall. Join this hypothetical recall we return to service at the rank at which we were discharged/retired. That said I personally don't wear or flash the little real I earned. I don't mind vets and retirees to do so as long as they are respectful. We might be our but we still reflect the military and should retain the values we were held against during our time in the service. Wear your rank? Fine if you have to. Pull any power you may or may not have had while in the service? Absolutely not! You want the power with the real you should have stayed in (in cases possible) or just get used to the fact you don't have that pull of authority. Don't get authority and respect confused.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 12:29 PM

2014-12-22T12:29:25-05:00

Absolutely not! They damn well earned it and can be buried in it if that's what they want. Hell in less than 2 years, that may be me. Retired personnel can wear the uniform whenever they attend military functions per uniform regulations. You try and tell a retired person to take off his rank yet? Good luck, he will likely tell you to pound sand....and tell the SgtMaj.

Response by PO1 Chris Crawley made Dec 22 at 2014 12:29 PM

2014-12-22T12:29:01-05:00

I agree with most of the responses. I have my First Class Petty Officer crow on a few items. I wear it with pride, but also try to remember to not wear it on base, where someone might think I'm still active.
Heck, I'm a member if the base E-6 Association, even as a retiree.

Response by LTC Scott O'Neil made Dec 22 at 2014 12:45 PM

2014-12-22T12:45:21-05:00

Good point and I am glad you are honest with your post.

Just remember - In the office they are what job or position they currently hold. Once out the door they are who they were and the rank and privilege bestowed upon them for their many years of selfless service.

Also remember Respect is earned and given both up and down the chain or organizational chart. They have the wisdom, knowledge and experience of serving in the Armed Forces. They should never wear their rank on their shoulders, it doesn't belong on a suit only on a uniform and you can let them know that, but do it respectfully.

Response by Sgt Jason West made Dec 22 at 2014 1:50 PM

2014-12-22T13:50:15-05:00

For the most part no, not at all.

Although at one particular place I was stationed for a while we had this old crusty retired SgtMaj who volunteered at the base library. Every time somebody had an overdue book or movie he would call up their shop and start in yelling something along the lines of "This is SgtMaj soandso and I need to speak with LCpl Schmuckatelli right now!!!" First time I answered one of these calls I was certain the poor guy had really done messed up. Then I find out it was a retiree calling about a book that was 2 days overdue. I was pissed off this guy was calling shops acting like he was still on AD and running the show. After a while it became a bit of a joke and let's just say people started messing with him quite a bit...

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Dec 22 at 2014 2:24 PM

2014-12-22T14:24:05-05:00

I'm retired and I'm proud I earned the rank SGM. Do I act like a SGM now - yes, that means I know who I am now and what I command. I command my sense of well being and pride in the service of my country. Do I expect current soldiers to address me as SGM - no. I have no pull over anyone today. Am I proud if someone addresses me as SGM - yes. Living in Denmark, all my customers know I'm retired military, but that's past. When I get CONUS, every once in a while I will cross paths with someone who knows, who's retired and will address me as SGM. Oh, by the way, I still have a bad habit of addressing all officers, retired or current as Sir! Just habit.

Response by SFC Stephen Carter made Dec 22 at 2014 2:28 PM

2014-12-22T14:28:18-05:00

I have my rank in my signature block with RET added at work because I work with military and I want them to know that I am prior service and understand them when they talk.

Thoughts?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 2:32 PM

2014-12-22T14:32:46-05:00

Once out, you out. To bash people ears with the rank you wore while is service just to respected looks to me like somebody begging for respect and recognition. I have seated in a room with a former CSM who never even let me suspected that he used to hold such rank.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Dec 22 at 2014 2:33 PM

2014-12-22T14:33:47-05:00

I have worked with contractors and here is my spin on this: I am to respect the fact that you have served. However, you are not your former rank, and you should not try to pull rank on anyone who is currently serving, that is how you lose respect quickly. Thankfully, I never had that problem, especially since he was a former officer that preferred to be called by his given name. Guys like that, I give respect!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 3:24 PM

2014-12-22T15:24:12-05:00

To wear your rank after retirement is nothing more then wearing military apparel to show your time and pride in service. And after you retire that rank is yours and you can use it in your title. But to expect others to just bow and respect you because you expect them to, now that is going to far. It is one thing to wear the rank then to force it down others throat as a symbol of authority. So no it does not irk me if someone retired wears their rank. But it dose bother me if they throw it around like they are God almighty.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 3:30 PM

2014-12-22T15:30:57-05:00

https://kb.defense.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/633/~/use-of-military-rank-by-retired-service-members

The following pertains to retired military members, officer and enlisted.

All retired personnel are permitted to use their military titles socially and in connection with commercial enterprises. Such military titles must never be used in any manner, which may bring discredit to the Uniformed Services.

The use of military titles is prohibited in connection with commercial enterprises when such use, with or without the intent to mislead, gives rise to any appearance of sponsorship or approval by the Uniformed Services or the Department of Defense.

Military titles will not be a part of the signature block of a retired servicemember when signing official correspondences as a civil service employee.

Retirees not on active duty will not use their military titles in connection with public appearances outside the United States unless such use is authorized by the appropriate overseas commander.

When military titles are used by members to sign their names to documents that pertain to them personally, they must show that they are in a retired status after the grade. Social and business calling cards must reflect the retired status.

In a military office, retirees using military titles on the telephone could lead to confusion and unwitting misrepresentation, conveying the impression of active duty status. In any case, common sense is the guide when a retired servicemember works for the Government. No reasonable retired officer would invite awkwardness when employed in a military office by insisting on being called by military title, if such title outranks the retired servicemember's active duty chief. The retired servicemember's use of his rightful title in Government employment is guided by his acceptance of his civilian status and loyal conformance to the established channels of command. Local customs, practices, and conditions of employment are the primary influencing factors.

Use of Military Rank by Retired Service Members

All retired personnel are permitted to use their military titles socially and in connection with commercial enterprises. Such military titles must never be used in any manner, which may bring discredit to the Uniformed Services.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Dec 22 at 2014 5:15 PM

2014-12-22T17:15:10-05:00

I do not use my rank, except at bases where needed to check in VOQ. My understanding is that I still am a Major in the AUS, as I did not (1) resign my commission nor (2) been dismissed from service. I'm not sure of the status of EM that retire. I think they still have their rank as when they are called back, that is the rank they have and they are assigned VEQ rooms commensurate with their rank. I know that you cannot use your rank in the regular civil service, but can in the excepted civil service. A confusing topic!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 6:02 PM

2014-12-22T18:02:01-05:00

I absolutely hate it when retirees still try and pull rank. There is a reason they got out, whether by choice or it was forced (retirement, etc.) but you are no longer in the military. Face it, accept it.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 6:15 PM

2014-12-22T18:15:20-05:00

I come from both worlds. In one universe I go to work as a civ contractor. In another universe I am a reservist that supervises contractors and DAF CIV's up to the grade of 13's. As a contractor I don't throw my rank around at all. However, as contractor I do get annoyed that there is a lack of mutual respect from the government in the sense they seem to acknowledge the fact that we were once in my case still am a government employee in some capacity when I am not working as a contractor and am on orders. The Irony is that I give my CIV's mutual respect when I am on orders, but it seems where I work as contractor there is a lack of that mutual respect. The attitude is that oh you can't do that or we can't trust you doing X, Y and Z because you are just a contractor. It mostly comes from the DAF CIV's who oddly enough were once contractors before sliding into the cushy gov job, more than from the uniformed personnel.

IMO they probably will mention their service not because they are trying to throw rank around. Its more so just to get some positive acknowledgement, that they were hired to do the job that they are in primarily because of their former service. That it is probably why most will mention it.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Dec 22 at 2014 6:15 PM

2014-12-22T18:15:55-05:00

Not if they earned it.

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Bergeron made Dec 22 at 2014 6:20 PM

2014-12-22T18:20:21-05:00

Yes if this person thinks they have the same authority they had when they were active duty. I understand we served 20 plus years and it is hard to let go of what made us so successful in boots. However we must learn and feel like a whole person without the rank on our chest.

Response by SPC Matt Johnson made Dec 22 at 2014 6:24 PM

2014-12-22T18:24:51-05:00

I don't see the big deal. They are just old soldiers that are proud of what they did.

Response by SPC John Decker made Dec 22 at 2014 6:39 PM

2014-12-22T18:39:01-05:00

I ran into a retired colonel once who used his bird for a tie pin. He didn't push the issue. I asked. I do agree about the senior NCO's though. Usually in your face about it.

Response by TSgt Jackie Jones made Dec 22 at 2014 6:39 PM

2014-12-22T18:39:24-05:00

So, the tattoo on my lower back that reads "Airman First Class" is not cool? But seriously, I have the little lapel pins which hold my rank that I earned. I did not retire, but I am still proud. I def don't act like a training instructor that I once was. Unless the probationers get out of hand.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Dec 22 at 2014 7:17 PM

2014-12-22T19:17:10-05:00

When I first started working as an Army contractor for ROTC in 2007, I was surprised to see that I was supposed to wear the uniform, rank, badges and all. 3 years later, they had us take off the Army tape and replace it with CONTRACTOR but we still wore the rank. It had to have been very confusing for the cadets. Now as a DAC, I am very cognizant of my position and at least I don't wear the uniform at work. Sometimes I have to remind co-workers that I am not an officer there. Sometimes it can be difficult but you do have to remember your position and not your rank.

Response by SFC Benjamin Parsons made Dec 22 at 2014 8:07 PM

2014-12-22T20:07:19-05:00

I have an old field jacket I sometimes wear on 'scruffy' days that remains fully adorned. It is getting a bit tight lately.
I had two retired SGM clients who I always addressed as Sergeant Major. Out of respect - not because they demanded it.
I always address uniformed military folks I run across by rank.
As long as no one tries to pull rank on me, I'm fine with them demonstrating their earned pride.

Response by TSgt Charles-Martin Ikari made Dec 22 at 2014 8:15 PM

2014-12-22T20:15:38-05:00

I feel for some former members of the military they find it a hard fall going from the top to the bottom. I feel sorry for them for me it shows that they must have lead from the back instead of the front. For example...soldier go and clean up the grounds. Rather than...The grounds need to be cleaned; who's with me?

Response by MSgt Timothy Bridgham made Dec 22 at 2014 8:22 PM

2014-12-22T20:22:26-05:00

I retired in 2010, rank has no meaning to me anymore. I pretty much stay away from most military things these days, as I am moving forward. There are times, when some little douchebag civilian makes a comment, that as my wife puts it the MSgt comes out. But since civilians frown on making grown men and women cry at the office, I keep it in check. As for around other military members it is only when they dishonor the uniform in public. Other than that there is no place for a retiree to inform active duty people of their old rank

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 22 at 2014 9:14 PM

2014-12-22T21:14:31-05:00

I prefer to be addressed ....................................as Erik...lol
I chose to hang up my uniform..... Im fine with Soldiers knowing who I WAS........ but who I am is a civilian, proud of my service, but no longer serving... So my rank is a piece of history

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Dec 22 at 2014 9:38 PM

2014-12-22T21:38:32-05:00

Doesn't bother me at all. I call one friend Sergeant major, another Lt. But if they ever tried to "order" me to do something we would have problems.

Response by LCpl Bud Redding made Dec 22 at 2014 9:52 PM

2014-12-22T21:52:09-05:00

Us Lance Corporals ( terminal lance ) wear it with a sense of sarcastic pride... Lol

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 10:23 PM

2014-12-22T22:23:56-05:00

Not at all. They earned that rank through many long years of service. If it's someone who is in for 4 years and leaves that would bug me. But not a retiree.

Response by MAJ William Guglielmi made Dec 22 at 2014 11:42 PM

2014-12-22T23:42:07-05:00

I read all the responses below prior to writing this response and considered each before deciding on my answer. I spent nearly 18 and a half years as a defense contractor after retiring from the Army. I know perfectly well that my service was the biggest reason that I got hired in the first place, but would like to think that my work as a contractor and not my previous military career kept me employed. Each of the companies I worked for did not allow us to use retired rank on our business cards nor did they allow us to use our retired ranks in any contractor capacity. I had no problem with these policies. No one hid their retired rank but no one used it either.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Dec 22 at 2014 11:46 PM

2014-12-22T23:46:00-05:00

My experience is that it is usually a Major O-4. And it makes me laugh when someone wears their or try's to wear it.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Dec 22 at 2014 11:55 PM

2014-12-22T23:55:18-05:00

Many years back I met the BN FRG leader who greeted me with "Hi, I'm Jim XYZ, Lieutenant Colonel Retired..." The unit was deployed for OIF-1.

My response was "nice to meet you JIM " Then he tried to boss me around to get something done for him as the FRG leader. I simply said "no, I have two days on the ground, ask the Rear D Commander"

I respect others service and what they accomplished, but I'm not going to be Johny for him. He lost credibility in my eyes.

Response by CWO3 Shawn Kopaczewski made Dec 23 at 2014 12:48 AM

2014-12-23T00:48:18-05:00

My retired ID Card says CWO3, when I introduce myself to someone I say please call me SKI. If they ask me what I did or do I proudly say I am a retired Marine 21 years. I don't need rank to signify my pride of being a U.S. Marine.

Semper FI
SKI

Response by SPC(P) Micah Lavigne made Dec 23 at 2014 1:07 AM

2014-12-23T01:07:54-05:00

SSG I agree it irks me but one thing I always remind myself and ask myself is:

"If I did 20 years in a career a certain way can I easily switch to a new mentality?"

The answer is No.

However It is in Army Regulation 600-20 that we have the General Military authority to make on the spot corrections. I have had issues with Retirees in the civilian sector trying to act NCO on me when it was not needed. I didn't retaliate out of injured pride or go on the offensive, but I did tactfully and delicately remind the civilian contractor that he gave up the uniform and I do not report to him (or her) and while I may be subordinate as they are civilians now, I am not in their jurisdiction, and they are here to help assist me in a mission not run the mission assigned by my unit or try to discipline Soldiers in my charge. if they have an Issue let me know and I will ensure the proper measures are initiated as per my orders. I am not saying my Soldiers are undisciplined but I remind them that I dont like my toes being stepped on no more than they did and like them I need to gain the experience to lead by doing my job not by allowing a civilian to do it for my. Its very rare the situation happened to me, but I never heard my Superiors blasting me about it later so I am fairly confident that I handle it well. The army is changing to allow a more civilian ran force according to ADRP 1 If I remember correctly (I loaned my copy out) so we have to remember that and adjust accordingly while respecting a retiree's former service, and assist them if we are able in their transition by just carefully selected words with the appropriate tone

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 1:06 AM

2014-12-23T01:06:56-05:00

I wear my rank on my motorcycle vest and I have a small 2 inch decal on my windshield. The only time my rank is spoken is by others voluntarily addressing me as Sergeant Major or if I'm asked what my rank was when I was active, but I'm just Jim now.

I don't have anyone to throw my rank around to or over and I don't go looking to correct anyone, but I have been known to say something to a Soldier who is just totally embarrassing the uniform, but I always make sure to get the Soldier aside so as to never embarrass them and it has always been pleasantly done.

Doesn't mean taking the uniform off was easy and I don't miss it. Hardest thing I ever did in my life. This forum has helped. In some small way, I feel like I might still be relevant in the smallest way, and something I may say or contribute on some post, someday, may help some service member out there still serving.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 1:40 AM

2014-12-23T01:40:35-05:00

I'm all for wearing the rank if you want to. Albeit I only have one chevron to throw around so I stick to the cult symbol... err... the EGA for my moto gear. Being a Marine is way more important to me then being a Lance Coconut or any other rank. However. If you act like you're still operating in a military environment and have military authority you need to beat feet. Outside of very specific individuals you aren't "Top" or "Gunny" or any more as a nickname, You're Dave. Or Jim. Or Mike, or if you're very senior you're Mr. or Ms. Schmuckatelli, and no matter how you slice it you don't have the authority. You're a civilian. Transition sucks for all of us, and some of the mannerisms and culture are never going to go away, but you are not your rank. So 'op it squire.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Dec 23 at 2014 3:01 AM

2014-12-23T03:01:03-05:00

The only time i am addressed as MCPO is here on RP. Have had a couple of the people I worked with try it and quickly told them that I was indeed a retired Master Chief, but since I was not currently on Active Duty JUST CALL ME Gene. If I tried that stuff at home, my wife would remind me that she always was one pay grade above me (WF-10 when I retired as E-9).

I do however really like being called sir at the bank. When that happens I do wish I had retired as an Admiral.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 3:36 AM

2014-12-23T03:36:11-05:00

respect is earned not given. if you feel that person is still a leader and holds himself to a professional level, then fine. ill still toss out the occasional "chief" or "top" but if said person carries himself in a manner that is not on par with his retired rank, then just make a mental note and address him as his new civilian title.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Dec 23 at 2014 4:33 AM

2014-12-23T04:33:18-05:00

It doesn't bother me as long as they know it doesn't mean anything anymore. At this point, thank you very much for your service but now you work for me! The worst case I ever heard of was a city councilwoman in California who was a retired Navy Captain. She insisted that the other councilmen address her as CPT rather than Mrs or Ms. Now that is her right and I support her and I can really despise the people who refused to do this but I also think you have to get over your past!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 5:00 AM

2014-12-23T05:00:19-05:00

I haven't retired yet however, let's try to shape this. Imagine you where a NCO, SSG thru CSM who just retired and were responsible for the development, welfare, mentorship, of anywhere from 9 to 1600 Soldeirs. These Soldiers looked at you as some kind of myth everyday. They idolized you. Then 20 years later it all stops and no one acknowledges your existence. Your presence while active gave you a feeling of indescribable importance. Now during your retirement you are working around the same Soldiers who you once were a living legend to who now only look at you as not important to there cause. You don't that have original privileged to influence anymore and you are just a civilian. In my opinion it would be only natural to try to relate to those warriors by mentioning your previous rank to try and place yourself in a place you know o so well. Just my thoughts on it.

Response by 1stSgt Robert Tracy made Dec 23 at 2014 5:36 AM

2014-12-23T05:36:24-05:00

I think we have to look at the question in two ways: 1) what is their work role; and 2) why did they become a civilian. In some cases, the work role requires the civilian to maintain a leadership position. And this is where their prior experience comes in. Unfortunately, that also means their experience and education will become evident. The nuance of leadership from a civilian perspective should not be the same as a seasoned NCO. To answer the question of "why did they become a civilian," most if not all of us are doing it for the benefits; and, the potential for double-dip retirements. That said, being a civil servant is that. We are to support the active, guard and reserve in their efforts in any legal method we have available. I've come across several DACs who have forgotten (if they ever understood) this role.

But, good on ya for having the bravery to point this out and starting the conversation.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Dec 23 at 2014 6:56 AM

2014-12-23T06:56:35-05:00

I know retirees that try correcting troops about uniform, etc. That's a bunch of crap and they have no right to do that but it shouldn't be an issue wearing the rank if that's what floats their boat. I wouldn't do it, it isn't me. It's nice going through the gate and the calls me by my rank but I leave it at that.

Response by CW2 Geoff Lachance made Dec 23 at 2014 7:47 AM

2014-12-23T07:47:37-05:00

I don't see a problem wearing it on a vet hat during a holiday like Veteran's Day or Memorial Day, but that's it! I have one of my BDU outfits all set up, hanging in the closet and during this past Veterans day, I took it out to wear it. To my surprise it had shrunk just hanging in the closet!! LOL! Amazing how much clothing shrinks in a twenty year period!!!

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Dec 23 at 2014 9:52 AM

2014-12-23T09:52:32-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I suppose it also depends on the attitude that they wear it with too. My dad, for example, is a retired Command Master Chief, but now works for a contractor at Recruit Training Command Great Lakes. I know that he will wear a lapel pin or a tie tack that is a fouled anchor and two stars, but I also know that he doesn't walk around as if he is the CMC of the base. He's got his area of responsibility, and I know he doesn't talk down to any RDCs or recruits because he's a retired Master Chief.

Besides, odds are on that the retiree who is a jerk as a contractor was probably a jerk while on active duty.

Response by MSgt Billy McDonough made Dec 23 at 2014 10:07 AM

2014-12-23T10:07:00-05:00

Doesn't really irk me but I think it's kinda sad when they act like they still have the authority they had on active duty.

Response by SSgt Eddie Albert made Dec 23 at 2014 10:29 AM

2014-12-23T10:29:20-05:00

Authoritarian leaders who need the rank to lead, may do that. Leaders who just lead by example, I cannot imagine them ever doing that.

Nostalgia wise, if you watch news reels or movies from after WW II, you can see that veterans wore their uniforms (wearing their rank) far after they got out. Watch White Christmas and pay attention... "The Old Man" and his Posse all wore their uniforms (wearing rank) and people got in line based on the rank they had in service.

When I see one of my former OICs or Commanders, and especially if they are a good leader - I refer to them by their former rank out of respect. The senior NCO or SNCO well, I have not seen one of cohorts exhibiting a complex.

Your mileage may differ... Semper fi

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 11:19 AM

2014-12-23T11:19:04-05:00

Yeah, some retirees just don't know when to hang up the stripes. I'll confess to having had a lot of difficulty when I retired and seeing AD running around out of spec. Fortunately, I have pretty much let that go. How do I know? Well, I'm glad you asked....LOL Anyway, I was at the local base waiting in line at the PharmaCare for my prescription when up jumped this old, old, old fart who proclaimed himself to be a 3 star general with all privileges and he started ordering people to get out of his way and let him in the front of the line. Fortunately I didn't have to say a word this time - a woman in the back of the line said: "get your old retired ass in the back of the line like the rest of us retired folks and shut up!" He left the building.......

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Dec 23 at 2014 11:29 AM

2014-12-23T11:29:58-05:00

Not even a little bit...so long as they are respectful, as with most other issues. Many other people with PhDs are addressed as Dr. instead of Mr./Mrs./Ms. That doesn't bother me either.

I get the underlying issue of complain where people simply aren't being respectful.

But I oppose the sniveling about other people's achievements from those who haven't gone out and earned their own. It has a BooHoo tone to it.

And as far as "showing one the respect commensurate with their current position" goes, I'd say an elderly person working a low wage job part time for a few extra bucks who already has a military retirement pension should probably be treated a with a bit more respect that others around them who can only fill that current type of position. I mean I'm sure this doesn't happen really often, but if an retired E9 wants to put his rank insignia on what he wears while he is greeting folks at a Wal-Mart simply because he could use the few extra bucks for holiday presents for his family without having to give up the whatever else his lifestyle expenses normally are...its all good by me.

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Dec 23 at 2014 11:32 AM

2014-12-23T11:32:03-05:00

It does not IRK me at all when retirees or Veterans wear the rank, that is pride in what you accomplished. Personally I do not wear mine, I am very proud of what I accomplished in my career, I carry my Retired AF coin and wear my American / Air Force Flag lapel pin on my suit.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Dec 23 at 2014 12:00 PM

2014-12-23T12:00:21-05:00

If they're just wearing the chevrons it doesn't bother me, they earned it as did I. I have my Sgt chevron on the back of my cap.

If they wear it as in, "I'm a "such and such" and you will respect me, yeah, that's a no go with me, lol. I just laugh at them then.

Response by SSG Luis Viera made Dec 23 at 2014 12:02 PM

2014-12-23T12:02:16-05:00

Why not they earned it. Just because you don't lead troops anymore doesn't make you any less of a leader.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Dec 23 at 2014 12:36 PM

2014-12-23T12:36:26-05:00

"Wearing their rank" in the figurative sense has its pros and cons. I try not to don mine but it can be apparent in my approach to problem solving that I've spent time in the military. I don't tout what my rank was but I do use my knowledge and skills to get things done, sometimes to others' dismay, because I can't stand sitting around watching people tap dance through meetings or not be able to make a decision and run with it. There is no corporate version of MDMP and too often managers are busy being vague and indecisive trying to please a superior who has doesn't even know what their subordinates do. Its frustrating to be involved in that environment and that's when my "inner soldier" tends to make an appearance.

Response by SFC Gary Fox made Dec 23 at 2014 12:46 PM

2014-12-23T12:46:57-05:00

Before I retired, my Battalion at Ft. Gordon served as another intel analytical cell for ARCENT's G-2 so I knew a lot of the personnel there. After I retired, I began working as a defense contractor at ARCENT in the G-2 shop in charge of the Biometrics projects. All those who knew me in uniform always kept calling me by my former rank. I think they did this for two reasons: one because they were used to calling me that while I was still in uniform and the other out of respect. I kept telling them to just call me "Gary."

I later went to Afghanistan where there were some NCOs from my last BN and BDE who kept calling me by my former rank. They did it for the same reasons those did at ARCENT. It took some time for me to convince them to call me "Gary."

While in Afghanistan I did run into some enlisted personnel who did not know I had even served in the Army. There were those who automatically assumed because I was a contractor that I never served in uniform and therefor didn't know what I was talking about. They would say this to me. They put me in a position to tell them I had retired from the Army after 25 years of service. I started wearing a cap that said, "Retired Army" on it and started receiving a new kind of respect that eliminated that kind of crap. I never wore my rank on it though and if asked what it had been, I would tell them.

I have met a lot of guys who had served in the military who wear a baseball cap with their branch of service on it and the last rank they held. Many of these guys are veterans of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I don't mind them doing this at all because they are just showing the pride they had in their military service. It also leads me to asking questions about their service and what they went through. I've heard some amazing stories.

I'm proud of my service. Aren't you? By the way, if you walk into my office you will see my military awards and other memorabilia hanging on the wall. Should I keep them in a box in the attic because I no longer serve?

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 23 at 2014 12:52 PM

2014-12-23T12:52:31-05:00

I don't mind it at all. Nope, not in the least. However, I don't. If I wore mine, others might think they still outrank me (if their active duty rank was superior to mine). What they forget is that we're all now PFCs (Proud Fuckin' Citizens of the greatest nation that ever was)

Response by SPC Stephanie Oanes made Dec 23 at 2014 1:02 PM

2014-12-23T13:02:44-05:00

It bothers me more when you have that dependant wife who tries to wear their husbands rank. Drives me up the wall.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 1:11 PM

2014-12-23T13:11:56-05:00

Yes, it irks me to a certain extent, as I have a particular experience.

I was trying to clear CIF at Fort Campbell after my 2nd deployment as a LT, and had an IBA with blood on it which I couldn't get off no matter how hard I tried. After I started getting pissed about the fact that this blood was from combat and there was nothing I could do about it, I had some of the civilians try to pull rank on me since I was "just" a 1LT.

Then, I told them to knock that shit off because I too was once an NCO like them and there attempt to "rank check" me was not going to work.

That crap really pissed me off...

Response by Cpl Kenneth Ledbetter made Dec 23 at 2014 1:45 PM

2014-12-23T13:45:36-05:00

I've been a contractor for 38 years now and I don't require anyone to call me Cpl., just Mr. and answer with yer sir or no sir. Respect knows no rank.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Dec 23 at 2014 2:44 PM

2014-12-23T14:44:19-05:00

I guess it depends on how it is dished out and how you take it. What I mean by that is that I have run into people who have mentioned they were former military and said what their rank was, but I took it as a means of them making instant contact with me and maybe getting a brownie point or two above the competition. Would you rather work with someone who has been in your shoes or some civilian who has no clue and just wants you to sign on the line? I also know of a certain officer who thought he was hot stuff and when he became a civilian he had virtually no pull. He "pulled rank" as a means of establishing his "superior" aptitude to work his way up quickly so he could establish a power base. You know how some people are . . .

Response by MSgt Dan Hurley made Dec 23 at 2014 3:56 PM

2014-12-23T15:56:09-05:00

I see a lot of vets wearing rank, I personally don't I am very proud of service and the rank I achieved but that was in the past for me. I would be the first to say that when I enter a military base the gate guards and people I talk with always give me the respect of my rank

Response by SGT Ruben Guzman made Dec 23 at 2014 4:21 PM

2014-12-23T16:21:28-05:00

I recently retired (medically) only 3 years shot of a 20 yr letter.... The mixed emotions are at times crippling. Regret, frustration, depression... The feeling that you have not accomplished what you had set out to do. The attitude a retiree may be exhibiting to you may be a form of expressing how much they are dedicated and just how much they miss still being a service member. They may just be showing separation anxiety. Try to be patient and understanding that they want and need acknowledgement that they still belong. Many comments here clearly draw the line and separate the haves and the have been. This may make it worst. Before feeling "Irked" place yourself in their shoes and try to empathize, be a brother in arms and value the subject matter expert for what he is here for.

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Dec 23 at 2014 4:27 PM

2014-12-23T16:27:06-05:00

OK, this is technically slightly on-topic ("wear the rank") but no retirees were harmed in the production of this post.

Many years ago my wife-to-be and I were on our way to something for which I was in uniform (probably the wedding rehearsal) in the back seat of her parents' car. At the wheel was a fine man who had been a Seabee in New Guinea in WWII, whereas my mother-in-law-to-be had been a WAC mess sergeant. I will point out that she was about four inches taller than I and rather imposing, which I imagine was helpful if you are going to be a successful WAC mess sergeant.

At one point my future father-in-law asked "Well now Mich-e-al (he always pronounced my name that way) just exactly what is a 'Specialist 5'?"

Without thinking about the possible dire consequences, I replied "Well, Pat, basically it's a buck sergeant that can read and write."

My mother-in-law-to-be slowly turned toward me, leaned on the back of the front bench seat so that her left sleeve was prominently visible to us in the back, and fixed me with the patented Mess Sergeantly Glare; I swore at the time, stripes were clearly visible on her sleeve.

"You got something against staffers, Sonny?"

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Dec 23 at 2014 5:02 PM

2014-12-23T17:02:25-05:00

I work in state government now and we have a retired USMC Colonel who works for another state agency who has "Colonel (USMC Ret.)" in his agency e-mail signature block. Most of his colleagues call him Colonel but I like to call him Bob. I'll call him Colonel when he calls me Chief.

Response by MSG Robert Corriveau made Dec 23 at 2014 5:31 PM

2014-12-23T17:31:18-05:00

I always found it be the CWOs who tended to carry on as if they were still active! Not the Senior NCOs as much! But with that said I worked as a DAC for 10 years after I retired as a MSG and may have been guilty a few times myself! LOL

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Dec 23 at 2014 9:04 PM

2014-12-23T21:04:26-05:00

There is a difference in how to present. I agree with most, it is good to have pride upon retiring to show accomplishment since few enlistees will ever retire as an E-7 or higher. This pride is shown with the retired hat or other adornment, and just share experience when asked or share their stories when times were good.

However the retiree also knows, or should know and understand that they no longer wear the uniform and no longer have that authority over those in uniform. If a retiree assumes they do, may be a recent retiree still in transition still getting feel for civilian life (reacting out of habit) or a person who's a bit of an A-Hole who has never let go. The good thing most retirees know they have no authority over the troops.

Response by PO2 Gerry Roberson made Dec 23 at 2014 9:58 PM

2014-12-23T21:58:55-05:00

NO! Not in the least! They earned it! Officers do, why not enlisteds?

Response by Capt Byron Chen made Dec 24 at 2014 1:38 AM

2014-12-24T01:38:43-05:00

I always give respect to another person, regardless of rank or affiliation. But let's be honest, once you're out, you're a civilian, just as I've had to come to understand. Sure, there might be titles like Supervisor or Manager, but in the end, we're all just Bob, Dick, and Sue in the eyes of the law. When I was still in, I had some retired colonel who worked on base come in to chew me out about some people in my unit. First thing he told me was his "rank". I told him he should take it up with my CO if he felt the need to compare swords (I was a Captain). Rather unproductive conversation since, one, I didn't think my Marines were in the wrong, two, if we're comparing imaginary titles then I'm a Spaceman First Class, and three, this is my office...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2014 10:01 AM

2014-12-24T10:01:38-05:00

Let's add to the discussion... how about senior enlisted and officer rank retirees who use their retired (Ret.) rank in their email signature blocks or on business cards?
Is it acceptable to present yourself as CSM (Ret.) or BG (Ret.)?
Do they do so to "demand" respect of having reached a senior rank in a previous career? If so, is that appropriate?
Do they do so to "set the stage" so that people act differently to them now knowing their retired rank?

It is somewhat similar to those who have Dr. titles. Some people make an extra effort to ensure everyone around them know that they reached a certain level and many of them also "expect" others to treat them accordingly. Yet others do not flaunt their rank or titles and behave like a "normal" person. We could go into the psychological analysis of their behavior and proclaim that they have inferiority complex syndrome or something.

There is probably a famous quote out there along the lines of "What you Do defines who or what you are, not the title or rank you present and place in front of your name".

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Dec 24 at 2014 12:09 PM

2014-12-24T12:09:10-05:00

I dunno, I guess it depends on a lot of factors. My initial reaction, is that no it doesn't bother me, but I find it sad. Not sad like pathetic, just sad. It makes me sad to think that a person who has lived for how ever many years they have, can only define themselves by a rank.

Take pride in your achievements, and your experiences. Be proud that you are a veteran, but for me, I have no desire to define myself by the rank I held in the military. Rank is a tool of the military that visibly shows your station for other members to know, so that they know how to deal with you. It is not a status symbol, and has not meaning outside of active military.

This is just my opinion though. It is quite obvious that it is not the popular opinion :)

Response by SSG(P) Matthew Bisbee made Dec 24 at 2014 2:48 PM

2014-12-24T14:48:03-05:00

I see what you mean. Being transferred to the retired reserves still makes them available for call-up, where they can throw that rank around. As civilians, that rank and $1.00 will get them a cup of coffee. If they feel the need to act like they are still in the military, they obviously missed something in all of their leadership school. To lead, you have to make people want to be led. Personality, honesty, integrity, loyalty to those you are leading and to your superiors,... are all characteristics that you must exhibit to make people want to follow you.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Dec 24 at 2014 6:34 PM

2014-12-24T18:34:03-05:00

I didn't have enough rank to matter to anyone. For that reason, I never considered wearing it as a civilian. I don't think that a retired or veteran should disclose their rank. It should be prohibited in fact.
Just my view based on the preferential treatment I have seen based on rank. In service or out, I think it is wrong for officers or senior enlisted to receive preferential treatment because of their rank. It happens all day long and it will probably never change, but rank should only indicate your position in the chain of command (and pay rate) but all should be treated equally.

Response by SCPO Greg Lees made Dec 24 at 2014 6:56 PM

2014-12-24T18:56:16-05:00

By Navy Regulations, courtesy, and tradition, retirees retain the rank they held when they retired. They are supposed to be addressed properly and treated with the same respect and courtesy as an active duty member of the same rank or pay grade. Should they be involved in your day-to-day operations when they're not in your chain of command? No. If you're out of uniform regulations, and they say something to you about it, then you should just fix it. It doesn't bother me at all.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2014 8:24 PM

2014-12-24T20:24:44-05:00

People are going to do what they feel comfortable with, and it's not on me to judge them. The only times I would say something is when they are violating the law, rules, or regulations by using their past rank or affiliation with the military for personal financial gain. Using your rank or military affiliation in advertising that in any way gives the impression you or your business is endorsed by the DoD or one of the Services is a violation of regulations. If you are in the Civil Service, using your past rank or affiliation in an attempt to force others to obey your commands or influence decisions is wrong, as is using your former military rank in a civilian signature block.

When I left the Army, I left a Battalion CSM position. I went into a Civil Service position as a GS-13 Branch Chief in charge of military enlisted personnel, commissioned officers, and civilians. As I progressed through the civilian ranks to GS-15, I found myself in charge of other GS-15s, O-5s, O-4s, and other military officers, and a wide range of civil servants and contractors. I introduced myself as "Dave" and told everyone that's what I preferred to be called. Some knew I had been a Sergeant Major, and they addressed me that way, as did others, and that was okay. When I earned my doctorate, most of the people started calling me "Doctor Dave," which I thought was a good balance between the formal and the casual. Someone even put a nice carved wood nameplate with that on my desk one day, and that became my standard name for just about everyone.

The most important thing is, once you're out in the civilian sector, you can't demand people call you anything; they're going to call you what they want to call you. If they call you something without a profanity in it, you should be happy with that!

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Dec 25 at 2014 3:56 PM

2014-12-25T15:56:17-05:00

I certainly don't throw my rank around, but I will still on occasion act like a Corporal at work by leading from the front (doing what needs to be done even if it's not technically my responsibility) or delegating responsibility if I'm doing something else.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 12:16 AM

2014-12-26T00:16:12-05:00

I work with mainly civilians and I have seen it both ways. I think its great that you were a retired 1SG or LTC who gives advice but when you cross into Leadership nitpicking or make it seem like you are a current NCO/Officer who happens to be in civilians, then nopenopenope. I enjoy reminding people of that they are no longer in if the line gets crosses... tactfully of course....:)

Response by PO1 Jotham Anderson made Dec 26 at 2014 1:34 AM

2014-12-26T01:34:39-05:00

I always knew that when I retired, my rank would not have any weight in my new career. However, I do wear a rank insignia on my motorcycle vest.

Response by SSG Eugene Russell made Dec 26 at 2014 10:01 AM

2014-12-26T10:01:37-05:00

Being a recent retiree (a little over 2 years) I was able to transition into the civilian sector with relative ease. After working on post as a contractor for a few months I definitely know the retiree that we are talking about. I have worked with them and have seen how he/she acts when dealing with soldiers sometimes. Soldiers resent it greatly when retirees throw their former rank at them. These retirees have a wealth of knowledge that soldiers can benefit from but something gets lost in the delivery when the subject matter expert reverts to his/her former military self while teaching/training. I know that many of them mean no harm by it but get caught up in the moment. Soldiers should understand that these heroes dedicated their lives to the military and it isn't easy to just let it go while at the same time retirees have to know how far to go before it becomes a problem

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 10:40 AM

2014-12-26T10:40:34-05:00

Everything that you work for is earned, and what's earned is yours to keep. Parading around trying to dictate things as if you were still in that position is wrong. Earning your rank and wearing it proudly is fine, but walking around giving orders that aren't yours to give anymore can be a nuisance

Response by SSG Timothy McCoy made Dec 26 at 2014 1:29 PM

2014-12-26T13:29:38-05:00

Well Hail, the wifes been do this all along.
There is nother more that chaps my A$$ more than a Sr ranks Officer or NCO trying to use their rank over me or an AD soldier to get an advantage over that soldiers or myself than to have a wife of a retired ___ ( pick a Sr. Rank) try to use their spouces rank for said advantage.
I must and offten do laugh when someone intros themselves as "Retired Thus and So" and expects me to jump to. My normal responce is your are RETIRED Who? If they press the issue, I will ask them either to repeat their intro or inform them that we both are retired and it doesn't make no never mind, and I keep doing what I was doing.

Response by MSG Robert Mills made Dec 26 at 2014 8:20 PM

2014-12-26T20:20:59-05:00

The Rank you retire at is the rank that you earned through your service it does not automatically disappear because you retire or exit service. It is placed on your ID card for a reason, it is also utilized as a tool to help soldiers with guidance, wisdom and expiertise they may be unable to see in thier current position troops or no troops. It is placed there for a reason, and yes it does hold authority to a certain degree, doesnt matter if you agree with that or not but rank is accorded with the proper respect at any juncture. Now if you have a problem with the man itself I suggest you take that up off duty hours, when you both have no rank so to speak, but I assure you that at some point rank will come back into play at some point. Yes being retired is challenging, but it will be a cold day when some SSG decides hes going order me around retired or not the rank will cause you some degree of pain in the ass. Smart retirees understand this and have taken the position of teaching respect for rank even after retirement. I say this because yes that same SSG can tell a retiree to go jump in the lake which is ill advised, however that retired CSM, MSG or whom ever can also turn right around and go straight to your highest chain of command and screw up your soup sandwhich for you for being umprofessional. This is why there is a title CSM (ret), MSG (ret). Not that I have any authority but I do have to option of punching you directly in the face without the threat of UCMJ if your a rude obnoxious pain in the ass NCO or soldier. Perks of being retired you or that SSG actually work for that retiree or civilian now, and it would be ill advised to attempt to discredit some retired COL, CSM, MSG who ever it may be just because it irks you to hear something. Sometimes you need to turn off your brain a bit and just go with it..

Response by MSgt Larry Pfeil made Dec 28 at 2014 11:37 AM

2014-12-28T11:37:18-05:00

Being a retiree, I am proud of being a SNCO first. But, I don't go around demanding that it be known. I have a hat that says "retired" and that's it. I have learned that if I show respect for others then they will "normally" show their mutual respect for me not as a SNCO but as a person. Real leaders don't demand respect they earn it.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 4 at 2015 3:37 PM

2015-03-04T15:37:31-05:00

My transition to civilian employment was very quick after I retired--1 day off. I had good mentors who helped me redirect my thinking in the profit motivated private sector. I worked for a Government contractor, so I had customers (active duty military) occasionally ask what Service and grade I retired from. I always gave an honest answer, but tried to focus on the projects at hand. I watched my fellow officers retire over the years and some adapted more quickly than others. I think it was a little harder for O-6s.

Here's an old joke to illustrate the problem: Management consulting firm has a new, but middle aged employee, Bob. He does great analysis work, writes wonderful white papers, and gives briefings without a glitch. But, he comes in late to work almost every day. This bothers his manager a lot (one of those always early folks). Finally, the manager calls the new employee in to counsel him on his timeliness. It goes something like this:
Manager: Bob, I want to let you know that we really like your work here at BS Inc. The sales presentation you gave last week was super. However, I'm bothered by you coming in after the start of our business day several times each week. Last Monday I went to talk with you on an important issue at 8 o'clock and you weren't there. I had to delay a project until you showed up. I'm puzzled by this, because I know you're retired military. I always heard the military was big on being on time. What would people in the military say if you came in to work late every morning?
Bob: Good morning, General.

A thing that bothered me was retired officers looking down on retired NCOs. Often the NCO had gone on to get advanced degrees and additional certifications in the areas in which we were working. Some thought the retired NCOs' opinions and knowledge were worth less just because they once were hard working sergeants. Total bull.

As a DAC (Department of the Army Civilian), I never mentioned my retired rank unless asked. Didn't have an "I love me" wall in my office like some others did.

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Mar 4 at 2015 3:39 PM

2015-03-04T15:39:22-05:00

I agree with LTC Paul Labrador . They earned their rank, but acting like they still have that authority is a no go.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2015 8:21 PM

2015-07-11T20:21:49-04:00

One thing I learned real quick when I retired was that Nobody in the civilian world cares or even respects what rank, title , or position you carried in the military.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 15 at 2015 1:13 PM

2015-08-15T13:13:34-04:00

What rank?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2016 9:52 AM

2016-01-05T09:52:36-05:00

Yes, It drives me crazy. I have a great amount of respect for former members of the military. The rank and prior positions they held is a tribute to their long years of service. However the key word is PRIOR!!!! it's important that former members share their experiences with younger Soldiers, Airmen, Marines and Sailors. With that, I don't need to hear a verbal broadcast of your military resume from "back in the day", over and over again throughout your presentation. As one introuduces themselves to a a class or as part of a public speaking event, then it's approate that your audience be able to identify with you being in our shoes. However, one dose not need to beat a dead horse about their exploits during the charge up San Juan Hill.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Jan 7 at 2016 4:23 PM

2016-01-07T16:23:34-05:00

Wow. How thin skinned are you? You know how many 4 year and out people stop by my desk, or at a restaurant, or at a grocery store to tell me "I wish I'd stayed in". OR ' If I'd have stayed in I'd have gone Warrant , too." Or how about.. " If I'd have stayed in I'd be retired by now." OR the 4 year wonder who wears service caps, decals on the car, flags on his desk and 15 years later tells us all about the nights in Okinawa or the liberty in Rota, or the sea stories about how 'on my 2nd deployment we...".... In no case have ever said I wish they'd pipe down. I listen..because its important to them. If you come across a retiree who still wears the rank its because he probably isn't getting the respect he feels he deserves and maybe .. just maybe... his audience isn't paying attention. I retired after 22 and have spent the last 20 working in the staffing community and I have never once in all those years met a retiree who was not professional, self deprecating and eager to share what they learned. Sorry you had to meet a veteran with an attitude.

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Jan 7 at 2016 5:06 PM

2016-01-07T17:06:09-05:00

As a retired service member you have the right to the rank you earned, but it certainly doesn't give you any 'authority' as a contractor or civilian employee unless you are a government or contractor position where you are responsible for managing a work force. However, you are not in the chain of command and you can not give a 'legal order' - and that good friends and countrymen, is the official policy of the Department of Defense.

I would further add, having worked in the civilian sector now for essentially 20 years, your military service is something to be respected, and often you bring a different perspective that adds value - but the civilian world is not the military - and it won't respond well to "I am the Chief, Gunny, 1st Sergeant, Major, Colonel (I use those specifically because those ones I have most often seen struggling).

I have seen some very bright and talented retired military folks who fail to transition because they can not let go of their 'command authority' - sad. I was once asked to coach a individual who was retired military and struggling to adjust to the fact that rank was meaningless - our first meeting he wanted to know my military background, and then politely told me that he didn't see any point in talking to me because I was retired enlisted and he was retired officer - he was unemployed shortly after.

You are retired - bask in your accomplishments, but unless you are a military environment where it's relevant, your rank is a courtesy, you have no command authority and that civilian worker isn't going to be impressed when you tell him to do something because you where "X" in the military.

Response by SFC Ron Peck made Jan 16 at 2016 2:48 AM

2016-01-16T02:48:03-05:00

No I don't wear mine, but have no problem with a veteran wearing theirs.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jan 16 at 2016 8:12 AM

2016-01-16T08:12:52-05:00

Most people who I am acquainted with have never served and are unimpressed by someone's former rank. I make it a point to never bring up such as rank when discussing prior military service, should it even come up in a conversation. While I am proud of my prior military service and status as a veteran, I don't wave it around. Perhaps it might be appropriate at a gathering of or in the company of a group of prior SMs where people might appreciate knowing they were talking to a retired E9, etc.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Apr 28 at 2016 1:35 PM

2016-04-28T13:35:27-04:00

Much rather be around people who are proud of their rank and service than those who've forgot.

Response by Cpl Kenneth Ledbetter made May 5 at 2016 1:22 PM

2016-05-05T13:22:31-04:00

I think it's fine for people to wear their old rank. I was a E-4 USMC. I'd wear a USMC cap sometimes on a job site. I am a contractor with a Bach. of Architecture, I did mostly design/build residential construction for the last 39 years. No one call me CPL., I was the boss and I had higher ranking vets working for me as subs. Rank was never mentioned very often, we talked more about where we were stationed and the good times. I understand people wearing their rank, It was kinda like their resume. I even once had a Lt. Col. work for me, I call him Col. out of respect for his rank and time served. Semper Fi.

Response by MSG Robert Mills made May 5 at 2016 4:52 PM

2016-05-05T16:52:27-04:00

I think that the regulations actually say that you are subject to recall even if retired, now this is the exact reason for this rank requirement upon leaving the service. I have had to correct a few people on this exact thing, although I no longer am active, does not mean I am not a NCO, therefore having said that the only difference now is I can punch you directly in the face in front of everyone regardless of said rank. lol That not withstanding if recalled that I would not fall back in and continue as directed, only at a higher rank than most, which I earned prior to most that are of the same rank now. There is a purpose for these things in times of crisis, and otherwise when leadership is slim or not at all, its needed to plan, to execute and especially when retired most veterans organizations have a rank structure as most companies do, there is nothing wrong with this idea, as long as you realize your just a soldier point blank, nothing more, not better, not worse, just a soldier. Your just a soldier no matter your rank at any time.

Response by SFC S. Wilder made Jul 31 at 2018 12:13 PM

2018-07-31T12:13:08-04:00

Well at the church I used to attend we had a "God and Country" Sunday the week of July 4th. The active duty in the congregation of whatever branch were encouraged to wear their dress uniform that day, and even the retirees (if they could still get in their uniform!) where encouraged to wear theirs as well. Occasions like that in my opinion are ok, you are simply representing your branch. I see veterans around town wear their former ranks on their caps all the time. As long as it doesn't go to your head and you throw your weight around as if people are to recognize the authority you once had, it's all good.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 11 at 2019 11:05 PM

2019-05-11T23:05:50-04:00

Sorry but as a retired cw4 and GS 12 the issue I had was when I was s GS 12 having to deal with 92a's in a wholesale world in a afsb. My boss a GS 13 kept telling me you need to give these people something to do. Like what I asked? Go do inventories? Look at the 1 billion dollars loss in Kuwait last year. GCSS army has never been understood by the normal Joe or Jane. Had one cw3 say I will never come back to work for this outfit? Then his buddy asked me to hire him as a gs11 and said he will tow the line. I did. He spent his one year pulled a 12 somewhere and left. He said that at his retirement ceremony. You old cege guys and gals now who I am talking about.

Response by SGM Omer Dalton made May 17 at 2020 7:47 PM

2020-05-17T19:47:07-04:00

Hey, I retired and never had that problem. I know a COL who did. Tried to talk to him about it but it took a little time for it to stick. After being ignored most of the time he later told me he now understands what I was trying to tell him. Yes we were working for the same organization.