Does marijuana have a place in tomorrow's military?

SPC Adam W. — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:15:31 -0500

Yes, it is of course still illegal federally, but if and when it does become legal, do you see the military allowing it on any sort of recreational level?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 8:43 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:43:20 -0500

<div><div>IF YOU ARE GOING TO DOWN VOTE THIS STATEMENT I PRESENTED PLEASE BE PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH TO LEAVE YOUR OPINION AS TO WHY YOU DISAGREE. </div><div><br></div><div>NO ONE LEARNS ANYTHING BY YOU CLICKING A BUTTON. IT IS SO VAGUE AND OFFERS NO INSIGHT INTO YOUR REASONING FOR NOT SUPPORTING THE STATEMENT.</div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Just had a round table about this very thing. <br></div><div>NO it has no place in the military.</div><div><br></div><div>It dulls your senses, rapidly dehydrates you, it weakens your immune system, and it has been known to react to certain drugs up to two weeks after use (mainly anesthesia and pain medication).  All things as a soldier, with the possibility of working in a combat environment(or garrison for that matter), you should want to avoid.</div><div><br></div><div>Allow it off duty?  Since you can smoke marijuana on a Saturday and it is still in your system when you test*  on Monday how will you tell if a soldier is using it in the line of duty?</div><div><br></div><div>*(pee test can be positive 2-3 weeks after last use, blood test can be positive up to 24-48 hrs after last use also, saliva testing is highly inaccurate and most times will not detect THC at all, testing a SMs feces can give a positive up to 30 days after last use, Hair is considered inaccurate as it tends to show longer in dark haired than light haired individuals)<br></div><div><br></div><div><div>Many say that a field sobriety test will tell if the soldier is unfit for duty. If the SM passes then who cares if he is high as long as he can still do his job. If the soldier fails then prosecute him.  Here is the deal with that. You still can not prove that he failed the FST because he was high. He can claim that the reason he failed was from eating bad sushi, ear ache or some other BS story. The fact remains that if you test him using any of the methods there is still reasonable doubt that the THC in his system is from up to 3 weeks ago. You may believe he is currently intoxicated, but legally you can not prove it even after he failed a coordination test. The most you could do is send him home for the day and test him again tomorrow.(there would be SM failing on purpose just to get the day off!)</div><div><br></div><div>Going back to if he passes who cares if he is high as long as he can perform his job.  Lets say SGT Janesmoker comes in and you think he is high, he passes his FST because he just smoked 5 min earlier on his drive into work and it hasn't hit him fully yet, you clear him for duty and he goes out to his job as a forklift operator. He is now feeling the full effects of the substance. He momentarily loses his train of thought and doesn't see his ground guide and puts the forks right through the track of a brand new M1A1 causing thousands of dollars worth of damage.  Again the point is there is no surefire way to test the "time now" effects that MJ has on a SM. </div></div><div><br></div><div>Many say its no worse than Alcohol and i agree, but alcohol can be tested by the amount in your system and directly linked to your inability to function at that very moment. MJ can not!<br></div><div><br></div><div>I also offer this side note:</div><div><br></div><div>Robbery(weed) is not as harsh a crime as Murder(alcohol), should we make it legal just based on that??<br></div><div><br></div><div>The lesser of two evils is still evil. </div><div>Or in this case the lesser of two combat limiters is still a combat limiter.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 9:36 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 21:36:04 -0500

I would be interested in some of the Vietnam Veterans outlook on this, as i understand it was common to smoke weed (and heroin use too) during the war then. Maybe some pros and cons that they witnessed or experienced first hand.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Jan 29 at 2014 10:02 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 22:02:02 -0500

Weed in the military should be allowed. Military has a high level of alcohol use, if we want to talk about dehydration, and dulling senses. You can smoke for the same amount of hours you drink, and go to sleep wake up and be functional. Drinking has many after effects, hang overs being a major immediate response. Yet, drinking is fine. Also, percocet are handed out like candy, which is often abused, and shared. Anyone who has actually researched weed use also knows that most research is done with casual weekend users, and the results are biased. Newer research is finding that concentration is heightened, daily task are done with no adverse effects, but this is for more experienced users. Below is one of the more objective documentaries out. I will attempt to retrace my research leads to share the benefits and to clear up the myths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4GUkzTnFG0

Weed - CNN Special Dr Sanjay Gupta 2014 Documentary (HD)

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 10:09 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 22:09:39 -0500

Tomorrow's Marijuana is today's Same-Gender Marriage.  Once the liberal politicians can get recreational marijuana legalized federally we'll see an influx of regulation changes and lawsuits for reinstatement due to illegal discharges.  Have we heard this story before.<br>DADT in 1996 and 17 years later we have legalized gay marriages.  Another 5-8 years before recreational marijuana use is federally legal, 2-3 years of Pentagon analysis, and by 2025 you will have marijuana cigarettes on sale at the PX/BX.<br>But, to provide my opinion, No! Marijuana and its effects have no place in the performance of military duties or the readiness of its Soldiers.  Alcohol doesn't either but the kidneys can filter alcohol out of the system quicker and more efficiently than the current illegal drugs which can be detected in your system for a minimum of 72 hrs.<br>

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 30 at 2014 12:08 AM

SFC James Baber — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 00:08:29 -0500

I have a two-pronged answer on this that is going to seem contradictorily, but please read through completely to understand where I am going.

For recreational purposes I would say no, because even if it is federally recognized, it would still be not operationally good for your job as a Soldier, it does make you more than just lethargic, it does have issue with memory loss and comprehension while under the influence, so that would not be good in the functional sense, and potentially dangerous depending on your job at the time.

But for medicinal purposes I would say yes, it has been proven to be helpful for many in the areas of pain relief to include cancer patients for chemo sickness and pain, PTSD sufferers, TBI sufferers, eating disorders, Lupus, diabetics, and many more. The medical community has embraced its uses and helpful capabilities. This could be a controlled environment via the senior leadership of MEDCOM command at each installation and MTF. While I know the detractors are going to say, well everyone will come up with an illness to receive it for care, but this would initially be limited to patients pending medical discharge/retirement from their ailments/injuries, and then possibly way in the future after years of being controlled and monitored consider expanding it for other SMs that are being treated and allowed to return to regular duty after either being healed for their injury/illnesses or cleared medically to return to duty.

I know this sounds weird coming from someone who spent the better part of 3 decades enforcing the law, but I have never felt that marijuana was a major problem, it is not a gateway drug as has always been portrayed, MJ users are not violent criminals as with other illegal drug users, and the only problems that you may with an MJ user is sleeping too much or possibly being overweight from always having the "munchies" with use. It is not addictive, as is alcohol and cigarettes, and no one has died from MJ use, as they have with alcohol and cigarettes, no one has ever had seizures from MJ use as they have from alcohol use. I could go on, but I think the point is made.

I understand many peoples beliefs and opinions on the issue, and I respect and don't criticize those, so hopefully I can receive the same courtesies as well. I just don't see MJ use for medical purposes as harmful or detrimental for its use within the military under these guidelines.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jan 30 at 2014 1:59 AM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 01:59:05 -0500

Some of these responses, while I appreciate how sincere they are, are completely incorrect and based off of inexperience. As a SME with 29 years of extensive experience with the effects of weed on all ages (meaning my whole dang family has smoked weed my entire life), I guarantee it is not what some folks think it is.<div><br></div><div>Bottom line, if you're against it because it affects one's mentality and performance, then be against any and all stimulants to include percocets and vicodine. If you really think weed still affects your performance 72 hours after smoking it, then you're referring to weed that has been laced. </div><div><br></div><div>I have done far crazier, stupider and more careless things while being drunk than my brother has while being higher than a kite. </div>

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 2:34 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 02:34:43 -0500

Leave weed to the people that need it to replace opium based drugs and provide a better quality of life to people that are not involved in the safety of those around you. As a guard member, I am faced with the temptation every day, best friends, debilitated family members and an artistic girlfriend. With weed, its too easy for people to go from the once a night to twice a night, to "eh one in the am wont matter", to wake and bake, to every few hours. It will erode soldiers resiliency, as it allows the person to not deal with daily stresses, and let issues compound unnoticed. People do lose their edge, and begin to not care about about mundane issues, which lead to mediocre issues, which lead to not giving a shit about huge things because, well "chill out sir" just seemed like the right thing to say. This is a professional organization that is based on accomplishing a mission. Nothing about weed is conducive to that. Its nonnegotiable, there are no positive effects to allowing mary to enter our ranks, if it means putting even one soldier at risk because someone abused it. It may be alright of pass time for office jockeys, accountants, and software engineers, but not for someone involved in the safety of others.

I challenge anyone who disagrees to fly on an over seas flight with pilots that rec'd up last night, to rely on first responders who decided a midday poke wouldn't hurt anything, or rely on the FSCOORD that is in charge of coordinating fire support for a PLT conducting ground ops in AFGHAN. If they are alright with that then I say GTFO out our ranks, and choose recreation over what they have worked for because my family doesn't need to attend a funeral because someone decided to smoke some weed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 9:42 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 09:42:49 -0500

Absolutely not....there's plenty of legal recreational activities that are banned for use by military personnel, as they should be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 9:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 09:52:31 -0500

A simple, NO. I acknowledge the pros and cons of the argument. I'd just rather keep it out of the military, with the exception of medicinal use, under the direction of the medical folks.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 2:01 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:01:25 -0500

If the law is changed I see it the same as Beer.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 2:04 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:04:58 -0500

I'm all for the legalization of marijuana but as a force that prides itself on standing ready to deploy, engage and destroy I feel that it has no place in the military. We are professionals and we should maintain the image of a clean cut organization. It promotes apathy which decreases motivation and productivity. I think it could be prescribed medicinally but for recreational purposes I say nay.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 30 at 2014 2:06 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:06:13 -0500

I think so. Alcohol is about a thousand times worse than marijuana has ever been, but it has better PR and lobbyists.

If the military allows alcohol, which kills thousands a year, and destroys just as many careers and causes double again as many disciplinary incidents, I don't think marijuana is all that far behind.

That's like allowing people to carry shotguns but banning BB guns.

Response by MAJ Joseph Parker made Jan 30 at 2014 2:39 PM

MAJ Joseph Parker — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:39:37 -0500

<p>SPC Wallace: Very doubtful that will ever happen. MJ has cumulative and lasting effects on cognitive functions. Also, even though recreation drinking of alcohol is permitted; punishment for abuse is severe (I'm assuming a DWI is still a career ending offense). Soldiers need to be ready for duty at all times and good soldiers know it. The best and most trusted, those in PRP, are not allowed mentally-impairing prescription drugs or procedures of any kind. </p><p><br></p><p>Frankly, were I to be a commander of a combat unit with members known to be users of MJ, I'd leave them behind on deployment. Same for the alcoholics. They will get somebody killed. If a soldier is that selfish that they feel that their own gratification for a "buzz" is more important than the unit's combat cohesion, the survival of their combat buddy, and the accomplishment of the mission to protect the country; then they shouldn't be in the service in the first place. That goes for every single SM, even if they don't push bullets. I wouldn't want any wounded soldier coming back to an evac hospital with med personnel who can't see straight, or transport people with movers full of ammo, chow, and water who can't find the unit, or even an AG type who is so numb headed as to send a message out to somebody's mama with the wrong name. </p><p><br></p><p>Go back to 9/11 for a minute. Suppose an SM had been on MJ right then, or even drunk on alcohol (an SM anywhere in the world, so don't get picky with the time of day). Now go ahead and make the excuse for the SM not being ready, and tell all of us in RP how that circumstance could NEVER happen again. It doesn't matter what the government ever makes "legal". Our duty is clear. </p>

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 3:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:04:50 -0500

Well where to start on this one. i used to be TOTALLY against the use of Marijuana until about 5 months ago when I went home on leave. My Uncle has been studying the medical side of Marijuana for about 8 years now. My Dad started doing the same within the past year. Both my Dad and my Uncle own shops up in Washington State.

My Uncle really opened my eyes when we went on a drive to go pick up a washer and dryer. I asked him how Marijuana actually helps people. His first words were "Jake, if God put a decease on this Earth he also put a natural cure."

We started talking about all of the products you can make from the Active and Inactive THC that is found in the flower. These products to include creams, butters, sprays, etc. For those that dont know it is the active THC in Marijuana that gives people the "high" feeling. The inactives THC is what most products are made from. The creams cans sprays can help with many things. These to include clearing up psoriasis for those of us who are unfortinate enough to have it.

While I was home on leave in August we had a family BBQ. My Aunt had been in a car accident many years back and had major problems with her legs/feet. Her legs from her knees down were swollen up like basketballs due to the cellulitis. She sprayed the Marijuana spray on her legs and with 10 minutes the swelling had started going down. 30 minutes later she was back up and walking around.

My Uncles doctor called him one day and asked him to go into his office. He had a client who was having constant seizures. This child, 4; would have them for 45 minutes straight. Nothing worked to stop or slow them down. My Uncle met with the family and talked to them about what he does and what the Inactive THC would do to the child. Needless to say the family agreed to give it a shot. 6 MONTHS went by before the child had another seizure. To this day when the child has seizures they are less intence and only happen periodicly. This family told another family about my Uncle and same results with their child.

Though you will never hear about it on the news, a buddy of my Uncle was actually treating 2 people who had cancer. Unlike chemo there is no pain involved with taking THC. The 2 people were actually cleared of their cancer.

As I said in the beginning I used to be 100% against the use of Marijuana or any drugs for that matter. After talking to my Uncle has opened my eyes to the posibilities of what people can actually do with that plant.

PS- My Dad said more then half of the people that buy from his shop are Retired military. They were refered there by doctors to cope with PTSD and many other problems. Try researching it a little you would be surprised at what you will learn.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/

Marijuana stops child's severe seizures

Charlotte Figi was having 300 grand mal seizures a week. The child's doctors were out of options, so the family decided to try medical marijuana.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 30 at 2014 5:20 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 17:20:47 -0500

Marijuana has no place in 99.9% of the military.  Only in extreme medical situations like Wounded Warriors, which should be case-by-case evaluations, would I support controlled use of medicinal marijuana for the service member.  But as far as recreational use, no how no way -- it has no place in our military.

Response by MSG David Kalb made Jan 30 at 2014 7:07 PM

MSG David Kalb — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 19:07:45 -0500

Would you trust the plane/tank/ship/weapons system you rely on, and by that I mean your life, on the maintenance/operation done by an individual who is or was 'mildly' high? You don't for a person who drinks....any difference?

Response by MSgt Timothy Bridgham made Jan 31 at 2014 8:23 AM

MSgt Timothy Bridgham — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 08:23:24 -0500

No, Just like no substances that effect your mental abilities should be allowed. Weed is a downer, Why would you want troops that are high? There are too many critical jobs in the military that require 100% dedication and attention to detail to ensure people dont die. Do you want a pot head working on your aircraft, flying your aircraft, protecting your base or FOB, fixing your rifle, doing your promotion paperwork. Just because civilians want to get high and waste their lives, does not mean it needs to be accepted in the military.

Response by SPC Davie Harvey made Feb 1 at 2014 11:31 AM

SPC Davie Harvey — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:31:24 -0500

It will never have a place in the military... even though its gaining traction in the civilian world... the only way the military will accept it is on a purely medical basis. In my humble opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2014 9:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 21:30:27 -0500

Negative, marijuana has no place in the Armed Forces, no way. As a recovering alcoholic. I dont see the need for alcohol either but thats a preference. Marijuana would be like giving someone a live bomb, it would go off sometime. It has no place in the Military. Drugs of any kind that reduces a soldiers perception of reality or their surroundings has no place in the Armed Forces.

Response by SSG Oliver Mathews made Feb 1 at 2014 9:47 PM

SSG Oliver Mathews — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 21:47:10 -0500

This will be a question that will never be fully resolved. The Larges problem will always be control. All you have to do to be popped drunk on duty is breath down a tube. Will that work for THC? How do you discern who is and is not presently stoned? These are the factors that cause issues.

I dont think it should be allowed as a recreational drug to the military or any Federal employee, because of the inability to control the immediate use. I for one do not want one of the guys in a flight Tower thing (yea i cant remember the name) Stoned as i am landing, and i don't want the guy in the IRS stoned either.

I saw before that a soldier post that it could be prescribed for medicinal use. If your medical issues warrant use of Marijuana they probably warrant a Med board... If you are being processed out of the military for the issue then i can see it being prescribed but not just for soldiers that plan on remaining on active duty.

As members of the military we are all expected to uphold a higher standard. We sign that dotted line saying that we will forgo our personal freedoms in order to protect the country and the American way of life. If that standard is that we as a military will not smoke marijuana, you signed the dotted line.

Response by SPC Dan Goforth made Feb 1 at 2014 11:01 PM

SPC Dan Goforth — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 23:01:33 -0500

Should weed be legalized federally, it's going to be one more detractor for recruitment and retention to continue prohibition in the military. I know that some have said it's selfish to pursue your own gratification over mission readiness. Some have pointed out the flaws and downfalls of the most prolific users. And some have pointed out potential barriers to controlling reasonable use of marijuana.

To those whom refer to the selfishness aspect, I would counter that this refers to more frequent users, some of whom might be treatable by ASAP if they can't go a few weeks at a time without using. Obviously, downrange, the same prohibition on alcohol should apply. It's as one leader said, if you can't trust them downrange, enroll them in ASAP. If they are untreatable or fail, chapter them. We are talking about one point of many in the comprehensive soldier. If the only negative is that someone likes to smoke every now and then (and it is legalized federally), we are shooting ourselves in the foot to deny that person the opportunity to serve.

I get that there is inherent risk in waiting to evaluate who is a true rec user vs. who is using too much. But there are ways to mitigate that risk. If someone shows up at first formation reeking of Febreze or Lysol, watch their behavior patterns. Inside a half-hour, it will be apparent if they're fit for duty. If someone routinely shows up reeking of a scent mask, perform the screening steps necessary to enroll them in ASAP. There will be clues within 2-3 weeks if someone is using too much to be fit for duty. If someone only tokes the occasional Friday night, there will be little to no impact on their performance.

That leads me to the points about the most prolific users. Not everyone who smokes weed smokes the same amount. I know people (civilians) whom have their medical marijuana cards and use almost daily. They aren't exactly a waste of space, but they aren't going anywhere in life. The other side of that is they aren't doing anything horrendous while they're at it. In fact, they usually sit at home when they're not working, smoke weed, and then eat until they're full. Obviously, not someone we want to our left or right (medical issues notwithstanding).

I've also known a few people in my life whom would occasionally partake at a party. Otherwise hardworking people just having fun once in awhile. People we could otherwise trust to our left and right.

And then there are the barriers to proper control of the situation. Someone could theoretically smoke weed with enough time between uses to not be considered a problem user but still pop hot at any time. This is the trickiest part of it all. But there are several clues that would belie whether someone is a problem user. If all they seem to do outside of duty is procure and smoke weed, they are going to perform at a minimal level or poorly. They aren't going to be able to control their weight, they're going to seem sluggish in the morning, they will generally be less than average soldiers.

All that being said, I'm not entirely for allowing marijuana use while someone is in the military, for many of the reasons already mentioned; even a few of the ones I presented counter-arguments for. The biggest would be that you need time to determine if someone is a problem user or not. And we don't always have a lot of time available for such things.

The second biggest reason would be the fact that the average age of junior enlisted is 23, and sometimes the biggest problem with a drug or alcohol is that fact alone. I'm not addicted to very much, outside of coffee and tobacco, but I did some crazy stuff at 23, and alcohol AND weed were almost always involved (I have the appropriate moral waiver, joined in 2006). It wasn't that I actually had a problem with the substances, I just didn't have the foresight and judgment. I wasn't the greatest soldier my first four years, but that had very little to do with drinking, and everything to do with my attitude (I met the minimum standard, so I didn't see what the problem was back then. I do see the problem now, and all the problems I've created for myself.)

I see it coming. It's far too expensive to continue prohibition on marijuana, and the federal government is losing out on a lot of taxes that could be levied with legalization. The best thing leaders can do now is prepare to separate the wheat from the chaff. Otherwise there will be scrambling when it comes down, and mission readiness will be negatively impacted.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 1:48 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 13:48:19 -0500

Continuing to ban the use of Marijuana is to continue a policy of being hypocrites and showing we really do not care about Soldiers. Fort Bragg 24 hour shoppette set a world record for the amount of alcohol sold in a 24 hour period. More Soldiers die every year from alcohol related incidents than combat. Soldiers can and do show up "hungover" and sometimes even drunk. We do not care. We know there are behavioral problems with Soldiers in the barracks, we know there are functioning alcoholics among us and WE DO NOTHING until we are forced to. And even then, if we are at war, who cares? Two Soldiers in Kuwait abandoned their post to go get drunk and have extra marital relations with each other, one of which died on the way back to their guard post, and we still allow alcohol. Alcohol is a major factor in sexual abuse. We still allow it. Alcohol use/abuse is a factor in a large number of suicides, and yet we still allow it. When we do something about these issues, then i would listen to arguments as to continuing a ban on MJ.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 1:58 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 13:58:22 -0500

If there is one thing I have learned during my career in the Military; it is that the Armed Forces will follow society. It never leads society with inovation but it ALWAYS reluctantly follows it. I believe the door has been opened and more and more states will follow until the Federal Government legalizes it. Then it will be legal in the Military but its use shunned much like alcohol use. I am sure it will also be under General Order Number One.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 3:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 15:19:02 -0500

Marijuana no, Meth Yes....that drug would be wonders with the military. Just think, your Soldiers would love doing menial tasks and would not ask to be released early.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 8:46 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:46:05 -0500

Speaking from a medical standpoint, I've no issues with the legitimate medical use of marijuana as studies have shown numerous times that it's use can be beneficial for treatment of TBI, PTSD, chronic pain and low doses have been shown to halt the effects of brain damage.

I'm all for this without any reservation at all as long as it's implemented properly.

Concerning recreational use in the military?

No way in hell.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 12:10 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:10:09 -0500

<p>SPC Wallace:</p><p><br></p><p>Not in Aviation!  ANY alcohol or drug-related offenses will bar an Aviation Soldier from holding an Aviation MOS.  </p><p><br></p><p>Even those with a valid prescription for controlled painkillers are temporarily prohibited from working on aircraft.  It makes sense.  I would not trust my life to someone who has indulged in illegal substances, or even been impaired by prescription drugs.  The risk is just too great.</p><p><br></p><p>As a UPL, I can guarantee you that you WILL be caught sooner or later.  Whether it is by random UAs or probable cause UAs, you WILL be caught.  These days, a single drug or alcohol offense WILL get you booted from the Army.  </p><p><br></p><p>So whether it's prescription meds or illegal drugs or overuse of alcohol, you better be sure that buzz you get is worth your career and your financial future.  Not many civilian companies will hire you if you got booted from a drug or alcohol offense.  The legal liability is just too high for many companies.</p>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2014 3:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 15:53:28 -0500

there are many "freedoms" that we give up when we volunteer to serve our country and i feel that the freedom to get High (once it becomes legal) is one "Freedom" that service members dont need... Look at how hard the army works at de-glamorization of alcohol. there would have to be even more time and energy put in to focus prevention/control of marijuana usage<br><br>so to answer you question SPC Wallace, NO<br>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2014 3:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 15:07:23 -0400

I personally believe if the military should authorize, that it should be prescribed and controlled through a doctors order, and only be used for the intended purpose the doctor specifies.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2014 3:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 15:31:49 -0400

<p>CW2 Kantor</p><p> </p><p>I looked up possible side effects of marijuana and this is what I found:</p><p> </p><p>Use of marijuana can cause dry mouth, nausea, vomiting, dry or red eyes, heart and <a href="http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/guide/diastolic-and-systolic-blood-pressure-know-your-numbers" crossLinkId="59290" keywordSetId="8191" externalId="091e9c5e802a073a" keywordId="31615" chronic_id="091e9c5e802a073a" directive="friendlyurl" object_type="wbmd_pb_page"><u><font color="#0066cc">blood pressure</font></u></a> problems, lung problems, impaired mental functioning, headache, dizziness, numbness, panic reactions, hallucinations, flashbacks, depression, and sexual problems.</p><p> </p><p>I think that before the military makes a decision on this, we need to be sure if there are side effects or there are no side effects </p><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://img.webmd.com/dtmcms/live/webmd/consumer_assets/site_images/usability/2012/LBi_Masthead/logo.jpg"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a href="http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/guide/diastolic-and-systolic-blood-pressure-know-your-numbers" target="_blank">Blood Pressure Numbers and Readings</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">WebMD explains what diastolic and systolic blood pressure numbers mean and why it’s important to keep track of them.</div></div><div style="clear: both;"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2014 3:32 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 15:32:37 -0400

I think if enough medical people or sceintists look hard enough, they will find that just about anything that is illegal has some kind of "healing" factor for something. My personal feeling is that if someone has an illness that can "only" be cured by long term use of mood/mind altering substances then a med board would likely be in the best interest of the Soldier as well as the Army.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Apr 7 at 2014 4:43 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 16:43:52 -0400

I believe that it should be decriminalized and treated in the same manner as alcohol, for the general public....not sure about whether it should be allowed for use by servicemembers, and I know being retired I don't have a dog in that fight anymore, but if allowed, it should be the same rules as with alcohol; not to be used during duty hours or used close enough to so as an individual is under the influence while working.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2014 7:54 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 07:54:01 -0400

Compared to alcohol, marijuana is essentially benign. I watched 2 people die over the last 2 years from drinking. I've seen nobody die from marijuana.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 27 at 2014 6:48 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:48:30 -0400

I suspect eventually it will be dispensed by the Military but not soon enough. I see no problem with it. Yes it is a drug, yes it can be abused but I don't see the abuse problems that I see with other drugs to include Alcohol.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2014 6:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:54:25 -0400

Should it be legalized/decriminalized?/Should the military allow its use?

Yes, it should be legalized/decriminalized. It's use in the military should be restricted to medical purposes. As with everything in life, this should be handled on a case by case basis. Rule followers follow rules. Non-rule followers don't. If life was so simply that you could write a rule on a piece of paper and control human behavior in absolutes, we would have no need for a military.

Would this be a good thing, a bad thing, or nothing at all?

Undecided.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2014 7:25 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 19:25:03 -0400

I dont endorse the smoking of marijuana, but I suppose like anything in life, they will find justification to change the legalities surounding it's use. How that is going to work in a combat environment recreationally or even medicinally is really beyond me.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2014 12:28 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:28:55 -0400

I don't know which way the military will go. Personally I think sailors who are on a shore duty where they have a desk job should be allowed to smoke it. For instance, recruiters. Restrictions would obviously include if you're on duty. It should be largely treated like alcohol and shouldn't be allowed on deployments but on my ship we have five to six months periods where another crew owns the boat and we're on shore.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Oct 14 at 2014 6:38 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:38:02 -0400

I really hope not. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, where medical marjuana was acceptable and everyone had a prescription. If they didn't, it wasn't frowned upon to use it illegally. Through personal observations I have seen the negative effects, and I have never seen a situation where the negative effects did not outweigh the postive. <view here: http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html>. I absolutely hate the smell, and with the smell lingering and my asthma I would never want to be anywhere near the stuff. I will avoid Colorado and Washington so I don't get unnecessary exposure. If you want to do it in your house, and take a shower and wash your clothes before leaving your house, then I would be supportive. But I don't want it forced into my life and affecting my medical health.

Does Marijuana Kill Brain Cells? Harmful Effects on the Brain - Drug-Free World

Watch Truth About Drugs Documentary Video & Learn About Substance Addiction. Get The Facts About Painkillers, Marijuana, Cocaine, Meth & Other Illegal Drugs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2014 6:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:45:16 -0400

No. There can and should continue to be institutional policy in place that prohibits the use of marijuana.

I work as an analyst in counter-narcotic investigations and I conduct presentations to school age children/teens; all of which requires recurring training to stay up to date on street names of drugs as well as methods of cultivation/manufacture and the effects of the drugs in question, I will tell you that while many will disagree with me, there is sufficient evidence to support that marijuana is a gateway drug and does extensive damage on its own as shown in a recent publication from Harvard University.

That being said, I know that medical research is showing some of the pain killing benefits of the drug, but I still believe that the dangers and consequences currently far outweigh any of those benefits.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Oct 14 at 2014 9:08 PM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Tue, 14 Oct 2014 21:08:52 -0400

Recreational level? No. I think if the military allows it for medicinal purposes, you will be placed on LIMDU or SIQ

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2014 9:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Oct 2014 21:25:17 -0400

Okay I base this on law enforcement experience. I never had to fight someone under the influence of Marajuania. Most of the time they didn't want to get off the couch eating FunYuns or Doritos, etc....I have had to fight plenty of drunks or intoxicated on meth. But in rapid deployment units, I see this could be a issue. So if you restrict for them it should be restricted to all. And if smoking Marijuana is important to you then I would recommend not staying in. Opions we all have them and you know what we have as well.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2014 1:54 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:54:14 -0400

Not for allowing it in the military. I can already see the increase of Soldiers testing hot stating they were exposed to second hand smoke.

Response by Sgt Evan Proctor made Oct 15 at 2014 1:57 PM

Sgt Evan Proctor — Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:57:18 -0400

I read most of these posts.

If we replace every "MJ" or "Weed" with "Beer" or "Wine," it all has the same effect. Most of you are taking it like someone will stay high for 3-20 days. The 8 hour prior rule should always be in effect. Don't drink before your shift, don't smoke. If you take Vicodin one day, it will still be in your system days later, just like Cannabis. Just being in the system does not mean still under the effects.

I say ban it all. Weed and Booze :) I want to see nothing but lolly pops and hugs on base from now on!

Response by SSG Bruce Burgess made Jan 10 at 2015 9:20 AM

SSG Bruce Burgess — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 09:20:34 -0500

Of course it does. Israel uses it effectively for their PTSD affected Veterans. Why not us? They are on to something.

http://www.haaretz.com/life/science-medicine/1.614356

Response by SPC David S. made Jan 10 at 2015 5:06 PM

SPC David S. — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 17:06:45 -0500

On leave, maybe, but not at post.

Response by MGySgt Harold Nikkel made Jan 10 at 2015 10:14 PM

MGySgt Harold Nikkel — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 22:14:53 -0500

Eventually I beleive it will be accepted everywhere alongside, alcohol, cigarettes and cigars. But right there are stil to many brainwashed people in decision making positions. Until they become educated, they need to allow CBD to help those that suffer, CBD will soothe but without the THC there won't be the "buzz"

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Feb 8 at 2015 4:17 PM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Sun, 08 Feb 2015 16:17:26 -0500

you know the old saying:

Tomorrow never comes

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 4:26 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Feb 2015 16:26:09 -0500

This my opinion which I stand by very strongly. It drives me crazy that weed is illegal and here's why. Now I haven't been in for 20 years or anything like that but honestly in this case it doesn't matter. Alcohol is also mind altering so therefore it has a drug effect on you because when your drunk you do not know what's going on nor can you do anything about you completely have no control over your body or actions. I sit in formation and here all these things about don't drink and drive which gets me mad because do you really think ppl don't drink and drive and I'm not talking like there super drunk I'm talking like a few drinks. Most people sit there and say there good which in fact there not. Also alcohol has lead to so many deaths so so many deaths and also killing innocent people which is worse. People sit there and say I'm going to get messed up this weekend and they do and everything spirals down from there. On the other hand You have weed which is a 10 times more safer option then alcohol and I don't need to prove this just do your research and you will find out. There hasn't been any deaths from weed in fact they have done studies against people drunk and high and the high people pass while the drunk fail. Honestly they sit there and say it's illegal because it's a drug and it stays in your system for while but I think that's garbage because you can go home right after work and smash a bottle of jack and piss hot for that. I think the military needs to rethink its thoughts on weed because before the military I used to smoke everyday like cigarettes and I don't care what people think because I still worked out I still did my job I was still focused. It only feels like your lazy when your high but you can fight that. I've played sports high and have had great games it honestly helped improve my focus during the game. I have so much more to say about this but people won't not will ever get the point that weed should not be illegal and it is truly sad that it is.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2015 5:37 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Mar 2015 05:37:11 -0400

Yes, it be legalized and our military will deal with it in the same manner as alcohol. My best guess is that by 2020 15+ states will legalize MJ and it will be legalized federally by 2025. Just like gay marriage, it is less of an issue than senior leaders think.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 12:36 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 00:36:05 -0400

Although I don't think it to be any different than alcohol I just can't see the Feds ever allowing it in the military.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 2:48 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 02:48:20 -0400

I will not be including medical use into this statement. This will be for rec. use, that I will be focusing on.

After reading quite a bit of statements, I have formulated my opinion, on this topic. If you allow alcohol, cigarettes, energy drinks, etc. to be legal, then I have no problems with legalizing marijuana. They all pose some sort of heath risk, that shouldn't be considered to be allowed in the military. The only thing that I consider marijuana to be different (referring to alcohol) is testing procedure. Yes, you definitely get more of accurate result than you you would get with MJ. That still doesn't feel reason enough for me to say that MJ to be illegal and have alcohol to be legal. Back to health risk, all these products listed above affect you in ways that don't make you "you". Alcohol can give you poisoning, if you abuse it. All of the above have addictive factors that can change you're mood, if you don't have them for a good period of time, which can affect your ability to be a Soldier. Some worse than others. Hell, cigarettes make me laugh because they are legal but they have so many chemicals it makes alcohol look like the healthy alternative. That's real sad that we allow these things to poison Soldiers. I remember someone pissed crystals from drinking too many energy drinks. That's not healthy. That not good for Soldiers to have. That's definitely not good for the force, that is always downsizing.

I wouldn't want someone, who is high on MJ to work on my equipment. That being said, I wouldn't want someone who is drunk, someone who fiends so bad from cigarettes that they can't think straight or and someone who has had one too many energy drinks that they can't even work because they start having irregular heart beat and can't function properly.

To my final conclusion, If you do wear the uniform, all the things that were listed above, shouldn't be allowed. However, If you're going to make all those things legal for Soldiers, then I have no problem with MJ. So, either make them all illegal for the military or legalize MJ.

P.S. If anyone can tell me someone who got high (Marijuana) one day and went sober for the rest of the week, and felt sober for that entire week and then felt the affects of that same high that they had from a week ago to the point that they were not able to work, please let me know. It can be civilian as well. I won't exclude. I've never heard or seen it happen. Not saying that it hasn't happened, but I don't know. I'm curious.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Apr 25 at 2015 10:01 AM

SGT Richard H. — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:01:33 -0400

Marijuana had a (below board) place in the Military of the 1960's & 70's. Look how well THAT worked out. It didn't.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 9:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 21:04:31 -0400

Yes. Given the definition of a narcotic, alcohol has the same negative effects on the body and brain if abused. Regulations, restrict being intoxicated on duty as would being under the influence if weed was allowed. The army is fighting a losing battle. Due to the huge profits gained from taxing weed in legalized states, it is only a matter of time before most, if not all, states are legalized. It would be best for the military to, in other words, "go with the flow", to avoid alot of pain and heartache. Besides, weed is no more addictive than alcohol and hasn't killed nearly as many soldiers due to its use.

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made Jul 2 at 2015 9:16 PM

SCPO Lee Pradia — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 21:16:31 -0400

No, if you think a person could perform their duties impaired and be precise, then go ahead and I'll watch the aftermath on the news. There's no way a field surgeon can operate impaired, a pilot to fly aircraft, a tanker to control the armor, a rifleman to shoot straight, pilot the ship, run the propulsion plant, there's so many lives that would be in jeopardy, mission and combat readiness would suffer greatly, could you imagine to training accidents?

Response by SSG Delanda Hunt made Aug 5 at 2016 11:21 AM

SSG Delanda Hunt — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:21:13 -0400

No!!!!!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2017 2:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:28:41 -0500

I find it funny, but not surprising how ill informed so many people are concerning marijuana use. Many of you who are against its use have no issues putting that bottle to your mouth at night or on the weekends. Alcohol has always and will always cause more problems than pot ever could. You argue "we can't test for sobriety like we can alcohol", get out from under your rock and read the news or a science article every once in a while so you can learn something new. Who knows, maybe you're in support of the over prescribing of toxic chemical compounds to treat multiple medical issues than to use something that occurs naturally and is relatively harmless that carries the same desired effects. Treat the use of marijuana the same as alcohol... show up high and your military career is over, period.

Response by Amn Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2018 7:24 AM

Amn Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:24:58 -0500

Wow! What a Great Article Thanks Man! Great work! Really great info.
Keep up the great work!
<a href="https://www.thelaughinggrass.com/marijuana-disadvantages-weed/
">Disadvantages of Weed</a>

Marijuana: The Disadvantages of Weed - Marijuana News and Updates

The Marijuana works by affecting the brain it’s a drug like many others with different effects on different people the active ingredient is called Tetrahydrocannabinol or THC. THC bonds to protein specific receptors in the brain to produce a number of results it can have a mild sedative effect and it can also lower your …

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 3:55 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:55:33 -0500

No. Just because some states allow it doesn't mean the military needs to follow. After all, this isn't college. If it gets anymore like civilian life it might as well be. Put down your weapons and smoke a joint. You might as well go into battle without your weapon.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2019 4:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 16:04:40 -0400

I am out and live in a state where one can consume legally for recreational purposes. I had more than one va doctor, off the record, suggest it try either smoking or edibles. Tried both and didn’t like either.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Oct 28 at 2019 10:34 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 22:34:43 -0400

I was almost killed by some asshole who was high on the job. Because people who smoke Marijuana are likely to come to work high, get high on their breaks, and get high after work.

Response by Sgt Steven McKnight made Oct 30 at 2019 12:06 PM

Sgt Steven McKnight — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:06:19 -0400

Canadia soldiers are allowed to smoke pot when not on duty, so far it has had zero impact on their readiness.

Response by COL Jon Lopey made Apr 10 at 2020 7:34 PM

COL Jon Lopey — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:34:19 -0400

I reside in CA and I would advise all service members not to succumb to the temptation of using any marijuana products. The THC levels are very high and it is still a dangerous drug in my opinion. Except for a very small percentage of medical patients, marijuana is a disaster in CA and causing a multitude of health, social, justice system and environmental problems. 99.9% of the people who get involved with the drug will suffer adverse impacts and so will many of the people around them. I am in law enforcement and we are seeing a definite link with accidental deaths, suicides, and even homicides associated with marijuana or the industry. I believe many of the crime, mental health care, and homelessness problems are growing because of marijuana and other drug usage. There is no place in the military for psychotropic drugs. The greatest impact is to kids, and their marijuana use is increasing thanks to liberalized laws and the mental health disorders, suicides, accidents, and poor performance at work or school amongst heavy users is well-established in numerous scientific studies. COL L

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Apr 10 at 2020 9:40 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 21:40:05 -0400

Unless it is de-scheduled by the Federal Government this is a pointless discussion.

It is either allowed or not allowed. Period

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 10 at 2020 1:21 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:21:41 -0400

When marijuana becomes a legal option for troops, it might be treated like other legal substances, don’t come to work high or drive high.

Response by SPC John Leite made Oct 18 at 2020 4:12 PM

SPC John Leite — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 16:12:32 -0400

I tried weed before I went into the Army, (enlisted when I turned 18 in December 1974) but once I went in I avoided the stuff like the plague, saw some during AIT but on my 1st weekend at my permanent duty barracks, I was walking down the hallway on the 3rd floor and heard music ahead and then I smelled it and saw that cloud of smoke coming out of an open door. weed has been in the military for quite a while already but from what I hear, weed these days is considerably more potent than it was back then.