Does our oath to the Constitution ever expire?

2015-11-02T03:11:18-05:00

Does our Oath ever expire? Our we still held to it after the military? What if an amendment were added to removed from the Constitution? Would you be required to uphold your original oath? I don't forsee this happening any time soon. It's just 3 am and I can't sleep.....

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Nov 2 at 2015 3:23 AM

2015-11-02T03:23:11-05:00

Our oaths never expire.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Nov 2 at 2015 4:13 AM

2015-11-02T04:13:15-05:00

Technically it expires once our enlistments/commissions are up. BUT, as Capt Seid Waddell says, our Oath never expires. It is our duty to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 2 at 2015 6:33 AM

2015-11-02T06:33:41-05:00

As for further amendments, the oath is to the constitution, not to the constitution as of a specific date. It changes and will continue to change. It's supposed to. Amendments exist to keep it relevant to the world in which it exists..

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 2 at 2015 7:50 AM

2015-11-02T07:50:22-05:00

Both of enlistment never expires. We may no longer be serving in uniform but is veterans I personally believe we are continually serving our nation in one form or another.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Nov 2 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-11-02T09:13:39-05:00

It is up to the person to figure out for themselves if their oaths expire.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 9:18 AM

2015-11-02T09:18:13-05:00

I agree, our oath is to the constitution and the constitution has changed and will problably change again.

If your argument is our oath does not relate to the constitution as it changes, then it follows that you should follow the original document without amendments.

Anyone for THAT approach?

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Nov 2 at 2015 9:37 AM

2015-11-02T09:37:26-05:00

I wish others in office took there oath as important as we Vets do. Namely Congress and the President. They seem to break theirs daily. Want to see a real Oath. Take a look at what the Tomb Guards swear and for long it lasts. Here is a little known fact and IF they do this then I would say our Oath never expires....

The Tomb Guard Identification Badge is the only badge awarded by the United States Army that can be revoked after a soldier has left the military. The Regimental Commander of the 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment has the authority to revoke a Badge from any Guard (past or present) for any act that would bring discredit upon the Tomb of the Unknowns.

When one becomes a Tomb Guard, one takes an oath not to drink alcohol in public nor swear in public for the rest of one's life. I assume these would be a couple of the circumstances for having the badge revoked. These soldiers do amaze me.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Nov 2 at 2015 9:44 AM

2015-11-02T09:44:12-05:00

The Oath never expires by there are clauses which are no longer applicable.

Enlisted
"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Officer
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

Now, the opening clause is the same: ""I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;" and that is the most important piece. This never expires.

The closing statements vary, and there is historical reasons for it. But for the Enlisted once our Contract (MSO) is expired, we are neither subject to Orders nor the UCMJ, therefor that section is moot. For Officers, "freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion" is essential in the verbiage. Were the Constitution changed in such a fashion that it would trigger this clause...

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Nov 2 at 2015 10:03 AM

2015-11-02T10:03:18-05:00

Cpl Dave D I can relate to your dilemma. I have many blog postings written at "Oh-dark-thirty". The frequency is increasing as we drop deeper into the abyss of progressive interpretations of our Constitution and their shenanigans. So, let's answer your question and get you back to bed so that you can catch up on your beauty sleep.

Your Oath of Enlistment or Commissioning is not enforceable in and of itself. (Can you imagine what would happen if politicians could be held accountable to their oaths which have similiar declarations?) It is merely a declaration that you voluntarily submit yourself to the provisions of the UCMJ so long as you serve. Technically, you remain obligated to that service until discharged.

Morally and ethically, many veterans consider themselves bound by their promise to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, for life. However, that is a personal choice, an honorable choice, the choice of a citizen who recognizes that America is not defined by a land mass, but rather by principles codified in the Constitution. We may pledge allegiance to symbols of the Republic, but in actuality, without the Constitution and dedicated observance of it, there is no nation. It seems that service members and veterans understand this better than most. Sadly, the sum total of those who serve or have served is a scant minority of the nation and the proportion of those who have not learned these same lessons are growing exponentially with every passing generation.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 2 at 2015 10:37 AM

2015-11-02T10:37:37-05:00

Seems most are weighing in with their heart, which is a good thing. Any oath is no longer legally binding when the contract under which it is given is no longer in force. Most keep it because it becomes a part of what/who they are. I bring this aspect up because there's an occasional instance of a Vet demanding another Vet maintain their view and value on it. I think oaths are more important than most view but then again I made another oath 39 years ago and still have no intention of breaking it or her heart, ever.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 2 at 2015 10:58 AM

2015-11-02T10:58:43-05:00

Only you can answer if your oath ever expires, for me the answer is 'No'. I will continue to defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies. My actions in that defense may be slightly different, and I would contend that once we have left the military, or no longer in an Active status, not subject to certain portions of the oath...I.E. we can do and say things we could not when Active.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-11-02T11:11:53-05:00

An oath taken between you and your God(or gods), can only end with breaking it. There is no expiration of an oath.

Amendment to remove the constitution? Amendment itself is the constitution, I can't see how that work out. To destroy the constitution, one must violate the constitution.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Nov 2 at 2015 12:04 PM

2015-11-02T12:04:52-05:00

Cpl Dave D Marine, my original oath to our Corps is still valid from 1983 and my most recent oath (Indefinite re-enlistment) even through retirement will bind me to our great Republic until my death. Many things may change, my loyalty and devotion to Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen; moreover, our Country will not!

Semper Fidelis seems an appropriate salutation,

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Nov 2 at 2015 1:05 PM

2015-11-02T13:05:09-05:00

Until God has spoken to you personally telling you you've done all you can on this earth, you are still a member of the military. You still have a duty to those behind you, to guide them, and to see that they don't make the mistakes we did. For me God, hasn't spoken to me about coming home. So it's not my time yet. Until then, I'll run my suck to anyone that will listen so I can help them NOT do the same dumb stuff I did when I was in the Army. It was done to me and I didn't listen fully. I know better now, and the work isn't over and the Oath and NCO Creed is still in effect.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Nov 2 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-11-02T13:44:39-05:00

Whether it would be required or not, I don't think many of us would have an issue with upholding that oath... In fact, some of us are still here... waiting... patiently... ;)

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Nov 2 at 2015 3:23 PM

2015-11-02T15:23:13-05:00

The Oath is still important.

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Nov 3 at 2015 6:47 AM

2015-11-03T06:47:47-05:00

Great question. My answer is no it does not But as we take an oath to defend, i also believe civilians have a duty to know the rights we defend and actively educate their kids.
Ideally, I believe the constitution and citizenship should be part of public school curricula to include small arms training and qualifying to help remove the mystique and fascination and preserve our 2nd amendment and other rights.
I respect the individuals freedom to own or not own a firearm, but their kids are born with that as a birthright. Not teaching them is a very dangerous oversight IMO.

Response by Cpl Christofer Baines made Nov 4 at 2015 7:26 AM

2015-11-04T07:26:23-05:00

We answered the call, and I'll be damned if I hang up. Its much bigger than we, and this we'll defend.

Response by SGT Brian Bybee made Nov 5 at 2015 8:27 AM

2015-11-05T08:27:54-05:00

To me a oath never expires. But it is very sad that our elected officials choose to ignore the very constitution that we swore our oath too.

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Aug 2 at 2016 2:15 AM

2016-08-02T02:15:41-04:00

From my viewpoint, in a word - NO

Response by SPC Joey Reynolds made Oct 20 at 2017 9:58 AM

2017-10-20T09:58:06-04:00

NO, OUR OATH NEVER EXPIRES. Our Enlistment expires when we ETS, but our Oath does not have an expiration. Only our Term if Service has an expiration date. The OATH and the ENLISTMENT are two separate things. It is an oath OF THE enlistment. It is used in the same sentence, but two separate nouns

Just my take on the op's question.

Response by SR Joseph Rhymer made May 18 at 2018 11:01 PM

2018-05-18T23:01:13-04:00

Although I was discharged after 2 months 19 days, (Vietnam Veteran, Aug. 20th - Nov. 8th 1974), I still honor my Oath. I was 17 at the time of my enlistment, and proud to serve the time I was able to serve.

Response by CPL James Stratton made May 22 at 2018 11:11 AM

2018-05-22T11:11:35-04:00

An Oath to God and Country Never Expire even when Technically it May.. God Heard Your Voice...

Response by SSG Gary Carter made Jun 3 at 2018 10:07 AM

2018-06-03T10:07:47-04:00

If we are still bound by our oath after retirement why are members of congress allowing the president to tear up the constitution?

Response by PO3 Murphy Hadsell made Jul 18 at 2018 7:04 AM

2018-07-18T07:04:52-04:00

An elistment expires, an oath was made based on your honor and your mental fortitude as a warrior. Its up to you whether or not it expires.

Response by Sgt Brian Chin made Oct 24 at 2018 3:25 PM

2018-10-24T15:25:17-04:00

I guess "technically" it does expire after you have full filled your service obligations, but I've never stopped honoring it.

Response by COL Korey Jackson made Dec 19 at 2018 11:47 AM

2018-12-19T11:47:02-05:00

Note that the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance also includes some similar components; specifically that clause "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

But the citizenship oath also adds "and laws of the United States."

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america

Sometimes I wonder: would it not also be a good practice for American natural born, specifically native-born, citizens to recite a similar oath?

Regarding your question regarding does the oath still apply should the Constitution be changed through Amendment: Yes, it does.

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America

Oath"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have her

Response by PO3 Bill Hansen made Jan 10 at 2019 8:02 AM

2019-01-10T08:02:56-05:00

As a loyal citizen of the United States I have an obligation to uphold and defend the Constitution...but the oath I took (many years ago..Feb of '70) when I entered the US Navy expired when I was discharged in July of 74..I suppose i was still held to it for another 2 years..but then that was it. People who say it has no expiration date...really? If some ensign came by and told me my lawn needed to be mowed I would have to hop to it, eh? I don't think so. I sure as hell don't see that orange buffoon in the Oval Office as my Commander in Chief.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Feb 28 at 2019 6:02 AM

2019-02-28T06:02:06-05:00

My oath to the Constitution started when the doctor slapped my ass at birth. It doesn't end until the casket slams shut.

Response by PFC Danny Hall made Jul 8 at 2019 1:33 AM

2019-07-08T01:33:26-04:00

As far as I’m concerned. I still consider my oath is for life. I know several upon several Veteran’s that feel the same way. We all swore an oath to Protect, and Defend The Constitution against all enemies. Foreign, and Domestic, and ended it with so help me God. An oath to God in my eyes is unbreakable.

Response by SSgt Edward Miller made Sep 17 at 2019 7:32 PM

2019-09-17T19:32:26-04:00

What are we supposed to do if the President/our Commander & Chief
Is the threat to our Constitution?

Response by SPC David Yarbrough made Sep 26 at 2019 2:10 PM

2019-09-26T14:10:00-04:00

Response by SGT Wayne Knowles made Oct 1 at 2019 6:04 PM

2019-10-01T18:04:09-04:00

/as far as I am concerned it never expires and especially not know with The Socialist Democrat Party seeking the destruction of America as visioned by our Founding Fathers and elimination of our rights and freedoms included in The Bill of Rights such as the the 2nd Amendment which serves not only for protection of family and friends but to resist and even overthrow a rouge government no longer from the people, for the people, bu the people. I consider it my duty to oppose and even if necessary to again fight to protect America as The United States of America not THE UNTIED SOCIALIST STATES . OF AMERICA!! I owe no allegiance to any country other than that covered by Original Constitution and Admendments in Our Constitutiont and ratified byt the states. ratified

Response by SP5 Frank Morales made Nov 11 at 2019 10:18 PM

2019-11-11T22:18:37-05:00

I am an American soldier, served with 2nd Military Intelligence Detachment, 2nd Infantry Division. We served the Korean DMZ. There were only 12 of us I had the privilege and honor to serve with best team ever.

Response by SA Eugene Wood made Nov 22 at 2019 1:41 PM

2019-11-22T13:41:52-05:00

Your oath that you originally took never expires, you have sworn to protect the Constitution and obey The President of The United States so help you God!!! Don't let anyone tell you different!!!

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Feb 4 at 2020 6:15 PM

2020-02-04T18:15:04-05:00

Your Oath actually expires at the end of your enlistment. If it didn't then you would not have to repeat it for every enlistment/or extension.
As for Officers it is only when you actually resign your commission, not retire. You can say or insinuate, all you want. That's per the reg, in every branch of service.

Response by SCPO Kevin Sun Courtright made Feb 8 at 2020 4:49 PM

2020-02-08T16:49:27-05:00

This is easy: The oath of enlistment ends when your enlistment ends. You no longer obligated to obey military officers (they have no authority over civilians), and you are not obligated to obey the UCMJ. You can get fat, have long hair, grow a beard, run slow, refuse to do sit ups, etc. etc. etc. without anobody's permission, without any legal ramifications from the military.

Response by SCPO Kevin Sun Courtright made Feb 8 at 2020 4:50 PM

2020-02-08T16:50:53-05:00

Response by SGT Wayne Knowles made Feb 8 at 2020 8:53 PM

2020-02-08T20:53:15-05:00

I enlisted during Vietnam did 24months there. For me it does not matter I took an oath to defend America, it's legal citizens ( illegals violated our immigration laws and are criminals )and our Constitution with up to and including my life. I have never been released from that oath and fulfill it if it comes from such threats as Socialism, Which is why I will never support a Democrat for any office. In my opinion by allowing Bernie Sanders to run with their party they committed sedation enemies to America.

Response by PO2 John Schwamborn made Mar 14 at 2020 9:11 PM

2020-03-14T21:11:36-04:00

No.it doesn't.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 1 at 2020 8:31 PM

2020-06-01T20:31:32-04:00

It's the oath of enlistment. It applies while enlisted. Its in the name.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2020 3:26 PM

2020-07-24T15:26:14-04:00

No.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Aug 17 at 2020 3:16 PM

2020-08-17T15:16:10-04:00

I remember taking the Oath back in Nov.1965 then when my enlistment ended in Nov 1968 I was no longer legally bound to honor those words,but alas being a stubborn old fart and an extremely slow learner I held on to the belief those words uttered by a somewhat naive ,untested nineteen year old still ring true and have merit,so for me it hasn’t expired.

Response by SPC Garry Noel made Aug 20 at 2020 9:05 PM

2020-08-20T21:05:52-04:00

My oath to this country never will expire until they lay me six feet in the ground. I swore to protect this country and even though I am disabled I can still kick the heck out of a socialist, marxist or nazi's ass.

Response by PFC Billy Yarger made Sep 6 at 2020 7:40 PM

2020-09-06T19:40:58-04:00

Response by SP5 Joseph Skaggs made Sep 24 at 2020 12:27 AM

2020-09-24T00:27:41-04:00

My Outh to defend our Great Constitution has no expiration date, any Veteran that would question that Outh should question there own alliance to our great country.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 30 at 2020 12:37 AM

2020-09-30T00:37:57-04:00

It's the oath of enlistment. It applies while enlisted. It's in the title.

Response by SGT Herbert Bollum made Sep 30 at 2020 5:22 PM

2020-09-30T17:22:26-04:00

for me it never will expire... legally it does when you ETS

Response by PO1 Edward Miller made Apr 30 at 2022 4:50 PM

2022-04-30T16:50:18-04:00

As a Retiree of the U. S. Navy, we are still subject to the UCMJ, and are entitled to sign letters with our Rank and Service designated under our signatures. We as retirees are still in the Retired Reserves of our branch of service and therefore our Oath doesn’t expire. As a service member, you could still be charged with Fraud, Cowardice and Dereliction of duty, for failing to support and defend the Constitution, although I have never seen anyone prosecuted in my lifetime. But many people should be. We are in a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy (Mob Rule). We have fundamental individual Rights from Nature and Nature’s God, not given to us by Government.

Response by SrA Ronald Gary made Apr 10 at 2023 7:53 PM

2023-04-10T19:53:32-04:00

The DD-214 is the result of the oath taken. Does it expire? I think not. Each veteran is the recipient of a document that most noted scholars were unable to obtain' Be proud in any event...