Does presence in the barracks really help? Or create problems?

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:31:31 -0500

So I was reading a different thread (https://www.rallypoint.com/questions/28827-what-were-some-of-the-most-stupid-command-decisions-you-saw) which made me think of a DIFFERENT thread I posted in the past (https://www.rallypoint.com/questions/28135-when-did-the-army-lose-focus-on-personal-responsibility) which lead me to think of this question:

Does going to the barracks really help?

Lemme explain.

In our BDE, at various points people have been expected to visit the barracks every single day, once before midnight, once after. Both a SFC and above and CPT and above per unit are supposed to be there. Then they have to sign in the CQ, BN SD, and BDE SD. So basically you have a platoon of people in each barracks at various points (exaggeration, but still).

I'm not saying this is a stupid decision, I just need some convincing.

Here is my logic:

They want to reduce suicides mainly, but also keep people in check.

1) For the keeping people in check part, it doesn't make sense. We have a SGT, SSG, and SFC at varying levels of SD occupying the desks and making checks. Why are we not giving these NCOs responsibility and forcing it on a DIFFERENT SFC and above? So we can trust the random SFC and above but not the SFC on BDE SDNCO? (scratching my head)

2) For the suicide part...so let's assume that many suicidal ideations are a result of work. Usually it's a "problem" Soldier facing UCMJ and the like, or perhaps financial difficulties as well...but usually that leads to being labeled a "problem" Soldier. So they are all kind of work related, no? So our solution to preventing suicides is to make these people basically LIVE with their leadership? So you see the people at work for 8-16 hours a day, and THEN they come knocking on your door, walking through your room, or at least trying to find you/see you in the hallways in the middle of the night and in the evening. HOW does this help?

This seems like a complete and utter CYA to me and not actually helping.

They say "get back to the basics". When I was a SGT in 2003 we showed up 15-30 minutes early for PT and made sure our barracks were clean and checked up on our Soldiers. Granted that was only 11 years ago, but you get my point. We didn't have constant roving patrols in the hallways of the barracks.

Your thoughts? Feel free to help me understand, because I fully admit I might not be understanding the intent.

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Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 29 at 2013 6:37 PM

SFC James Baber — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 18:37:47 -0500

I actually responded to a similar post to this awhile back about NCOs making the barracks checks years ago for cleanliness and accountability, but I also added that I didn't have a problem with because if I had shirked my duty during one shift a Soldier would have been dead. I was doing a check and found a Soldier hanging in his room as we used to have the keys to check for unauthorized people living in the barracks as that happened a lot in the mid 90s, anyways, I went into the Soldiers room and found him hanging and got him down with the help of another NCO that lived in the barracks at the time we revived him, got him the help he needed and he was able to move forward successfully. I always shared this with any of my junior NCOs that complained about the duty, and told them how would they feel if they had blown the duty off and discovered the next day that a Soldier had committed suicide on their watch and they could have prevented it and got the Soldier the help they needed, never really had any other problems from junior NCOs on that issue again. So I do feel it is a viable and important duty for any NCO that is tasked to conduct the checks, although the political environment has changed the way they are conducted now.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2013 6:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 18:51:12 -0500

When I was a single SGT living in the barracks I would get knocks on my door from random NCOs conducting barracks checks at all hours of the night. I myself was required to do barracks checks on my guys who lived in my general vicinity.

Now, I understand it if the Soldier is showing the same signs of a typical high risk Soldier; but it always bothered me that they would knock on my door at 0200 and expect people to get up and talk to them. It was especially annoying at 0500 on the weekends when you are trying to enjoy a day of sleeping in.

Most Soldiers are capable of being treated like adults so why not have CQ keep an eye on the ones that aren't. They have a SGT there for a reason.

Response by SGT Thomas Brown made Dec 29 at 2013 8:12 PM

SGT Thomas Brown — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 20:12:46 -0500

As a Barracks Manager, I feel that the presence of leaders in the barracks is a important task that should be conducted. We have done this in the units I have been with and it has helped ensure that the barracks are held up to the standard needed as well as the welfare of the soldiers that live in the barracks. It may be an inconvenience for the leaders to take time out of their time off to do this but this comes with the job of being a leader.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2013 5:50 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:50:52 -0500

My take is that it is their home. Some work shift work, and frequent intrusions for inspections are a nuisance. I do think it is good to have E-4 - E-5's in the dorm or some kind of rope like in a student leadership environment. It is like a neighborhood police officer who has a position of authority (like CQ) but also has a rapport. Periodically visits by a 1st SGT would probably make sure the leaders would doing their jobs as advocates and authority.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2013 6:00 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 06:00:40 -0500

If a person really want to commit suicide they would and if they knew they were doing this so often they would find another way. Besides how many people kill themselves in a barracks? Being an NCO in the barracks you had people who like to take advantage of others. All you have to do is accost them and if they get rowdy then get the CQ and 1st SGT involved.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 30 at 2013 10:06 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:06:27 -0500

Basically, there is a lot of baby sitting in the army. A few bad soldiers will ruin it for the mature and adult soldiers. I think checking the soldier's rooms twice a day or once a day means someone has lots of time on their hands. There should be a check once a week in the barracks. We NCOs need to check for cleanliness (no over done white glove inspection), illegal co-habitation of unauthorized personnel and animals, and make sure government property is not obvious damaged.

Response by SFC Grant Johnson made Dec 31 at 2013 1:44 AM

SFC Grant Johnson — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 01:44:19 -0500

I think we have made the barracks such an unpleasant place to live for the troops, that it contributes to poor morale. I know we are all a "Soldier 24/7", but unless there is duty that needs done, we all want to put the uniform in the closet, and be ourselves for a while. I think this is just more of the toxic, micromanaging, CYA leadership we have right now. We have Soldiers getting into contract marriages, paying out of their base pay to get apartments off-post, basically anything they can to get out of the barracks. We also take their BAS and expect them to eat at substandard DFAC's. For the other NCO's out there who have lived in their own house and had wholesome, home cooked meals, how many of you have really had a good meal in a DFAC? I eat in the DFAC sporadically, and it's not good, no matter the installation. We still have Soldier's living in 1950's era billets that have exposed piping and look like they should be condemned. Then we want to take the Leadership that they feel is responsible for forcing them to live like that and have them bother them all weekend. Not a good mix. I say the CQ sitting at the desk is all that's necessary. I apologize for my rant, but I really feel like we are continuing to fail in taking care of our single Soldiers. It bothers me that we send America's sons and daughters off to war, then after they fight bravely and honorably, we stick them in a dump that wouldn't qualify as Section 8 housing for a civilian.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 3:17 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 03:17:56 -0500

There needs to be more FLL presence in the barracks. The Army for some reason has gotten away from this and then when a random CSM wants to walk thru the barracks you find dip bottles, urine bottles, Soldiers smoking in the barracks, pets, co-habitation, etc. As leaders, it is our job to educate our Soldiers on the barracks policy (which should be included in the initial counseling and signed by them) and then do periodic walk-thrus to check for cleanliness. Our jobs are not to "toss" their rooms and we are not to do health and welfare checks (in the meaning of looking for contriband -obviously if something openly out and illegal- contact your PSG for guidance). By doing these periodic checks and ensuring that your Soldiers are aware of the barracks policies ensures that you keep the Soldiers on their Ps and Qs. Additionally the CQ needs to be more empowered, they are responsible for keeping order in the barracks as well.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 3:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 03:34:30 -0500

SFC, I would say the directive seems askew due to an absence of the "purpose and sense of motivation" aspect of some of our senior Leaders. That is to say, if you tell a Soldier in a company area, in duty uniform, Leader or not, to run as fast as they can east and not to stop until they get to the DFAC and go inside... wow... you may get a crazy look. Preface it with "a tornado is coming from the West and the DFAC is the closest SIP area", and you will likely be greeted with compliance, and quickly too.

That being said, Leader presence in the barracks is like Leader presence at PRT; it provides trained eyes to identify issues, make on the spot corrections, and if an emergency is encountered, respond accordingly. I do believe Leaders walking through augments the duty NCOs and provides a clear reinforcement that the Duty NCO is the organizational rep and is supported as such.

Lastly, most of your NCOs have families... I do believe that our Seniors need to allow for walk through schedules instead of throwing all your Leaders at a task with no organization.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 11:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:50:56 -0500

If the NCOs and Officers didn't do walk throughs, health issues arise from the unhealthy acts perpertrated by young soldiers, that come in drunk or from the field and don't maintain equiptment to more than a get by standard. It also gives the Officers and NCO's more authority over the younger enlisted. It also teachs self responsibility that what you do to maintain order also effects others, such as now roommates as to the older open barracks. CQs had to be at least an E-5 when I was in and they had all the authority of the 1st Sargeant when on duty.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 11:34 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 23:34:08 -0500

This has been a very heated issue even amongst NCOs. More than anything, soldiers, airman, seamen and Marines should have some privacy and quiet time, w/o intrusion. Let's face it, married junior enlisted have it easier than even NCOs in the barracks.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 11 at 2015 8:43 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:43:07 -0500

Week Days Team, and squadleaders go through every morning to check rooms. Platoon Sgt and Company NCOs go through once a week with officers to do the weekly Barracks inspection. There is a Duty NCO and An Assistant their at Compny Level 24/7 The Battalion has an Officer of the Day and Staff officer of the day after working hours that tour every 2 hours, checking all posts. Thats plenty.