Does rank translate directly to leadership? Can a PFC be a leader?

2014-05-24T18:29:16-04:00

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2014 6:38 PM

2014-05-24T18:38:36-04:00

PFC Holland, great question, IMHO leadership can be practiced or executed at any level, and of course that includes PFC. To paraphrase well-known & respected author & speaker John C. Maxwell, leadership is influence. If we are to use this definition, influence can practiced at any level, by just about anyone, and at any time. So, your leadership journey starts now; if you haven't already done so, begin to study the subject, start your own leadership philosophy journal, and take formal coursework (both military and civilian) on the subjects of leadership and management. If you've heard the phrases 'leaders are learners' or 'leaders are readers,' well, in my experience this is absolutely true. In the words of President John F. Kennedy "leadership and education are indispensable to each other." Again, great question, wishing you the best of luck in your leadership journey, and continued success in your military career!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2014 6:51 PM

2014-05-24T18:51:35-04:00

A PFC can be a leader and for that matter a PV1 can too. Being a leader is more than having a tittle, it's stepping up taking charge when needed...or doing what you are told while everyone else is complaining. A leader inspires and anyone of any rank is capable of doing just that. Rank doesn't always equal leadership, but actions certainly can!

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made May 24 at 2014 7:20 PM

2014-05-24T19:20:09-04:00

Being a leader and being in a leadership position are not necessarily the same thing. One can be a poor leader in a leadership position, and one can also be a great leader in a non-leadership position. Some people follow others because they have positional authority, while some follow others because they have referent power and influence, which is not related to the title.

Being a true leader is more about the person, and less about the title... in my opinion.

You might find it an interesting read about the theory of the "5 types of power"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(sociology)#Five_bases_of_power

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2014 9:05 PM

2014-05-24T21:05:16-04:00

Someone who is in a leadership position is looked at very closely. So naturally they will want to look very good to those who scrutinize them. This could mean promotion or demotion based on performance.
The people under their leadership are the ones who actually perform the task with which the leader has been charged. This leader must complete the mission in order to be looked upon favorably.
He can do (generally speaking) two things: 1. encourage and inspire his team to victory; 2. drive and micromanage the team to a perceived victory.
Esprit de Corps goes a long way. A team that is allowed to operate without an overbearing leader can maintain morale. Morale can be what gets them through tough times or difficult obstacles.
If they are driven and beaten down, physically or mentally, they will cease to function as a unit and will resort to self-service (every man for himself) rather than supporting their comrades and developing a dynamic team structure.
It is the leader's responsibility to monitor the welfare of his men. In ideal circumstances he will. In some circumstances a leader will rise up from among the followers to challenge an unfair leader or ensure the victory despite the circumstance.
In this example, when a leader acts according to the principle of treating others how you would like to be treated, he or she will not see followers as tools but rather as individuals. Viewing someone as a person rather than a means to an end will assign them a greater value, something to be invested in. When you invest in a person they will become capable of so many more things than if you drove them to a single-minded purpose.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 24 at 2014 9:26 PM

2014-05-24T21:26:18-04:00

The key to the science of leadership is mastering the art of influencing followers. Anyone can be a leader regardless of rank if they know how to influence people. I've seen great junior leaders both O & E denied opportunities due to technicalities and politics and I've seen horrible individuals make rank by only worrying about their career who couldn't lead water from the faucet to the bottom of a glass.

Case in point - a young WWI German private, in just over a decade, led the entire world to the eve of destruction simply by influencing enough followers.

Response by MSgt David Mata made May 24 at 2014 10:52 PM

2014-05-24T22:52:15-04:00

Yes, you can. Study the heck out of something in particular. Become the resident expert at the DAGR or something amongst those lines. When your peers (E-1 to E-4) have a question, they may start coming to you. Don't be cocky and pass the information down in a humble manner.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 24 at 2014 11:13 PM

2014-05-24T23:13:08-04:00

There are some very good responses so far. I do not think I can make it anymore clearer. As a leader you must be able to motivate, provide direction and purpose to one or many. A PFC can most certainly be a leader and they can lead. I have witnessed it first hand in the MP Corps when I have a PFC as a Team Leader of two or three soldiers.

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made May 24 at 2014 11:33 PM

2014-05-24T23:33:35-04:00

Leadership isn't suddenly imbued by rank. You can have high ranking types that can't lead worth a damn. Leadership is something that must be developed early on. If you don't prepare someone junior to lead, then when they get into the higher ranks they won't be ready and the unit will suffer for it. There are those that have natural traits and personalities to lead but others can be helped along.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2014 10:08 AM

2014-05-27T10:08:32-04:00

I would say absolutely yes. I have seen it in person. I believe in a very unpopular belief that one is born a leader. People are able to lead and understand the principles of leadership like you have other skills. Don't get me wrong, you can still lead others if you were not meant to be a leader. There are also managers. A common misconception is that a manager is a leader. This is not the case. If you look at corporate American you can see the difference. The only comparison that you would have to this in the Army would be the roles of a PL and PSG. The PL is the leader as he makes decisions and develops plans. The PSG operates in a set defined role that is in place and he simply follows the guidelines that is set for him. The issue that you may see is that a leader is now a manager. In the Army the term manager is rarely used as they expect everyone to be a leader. Some out are in leadership roles and operate like a manager. This will be evident by that leader only mocking previous leaders and little self initiative.

If you ask can a PFC or SPC can lead soldiers, yes. It happens all the time. I recall in one of my previous units we had a SPC and a SSG go to SFAS. The SPC was selected over the SSG due to leadership. They said the SSG lacked leadership.

I think in recent times the Army has done a poor job identifying those who are leaders and managers. There are a lot of NCOs and officers out there that are weak and truly lack the formal understanding of leadership. SSD is there now to prepare those but the with the wars raging soldiers within the Army have put a bigger emphasis on being combat ready as opposed to be solid leaders. This has really hurt the Army. We are now going back to the focusing on other things than just war, as this is only one function soldiers.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made May 27 at 2014 10:36 AM

2014-05-27T10:36:30-04:00

I could spend days considering this, but I'll go with the USMC view.
Date of Rank is everything when it comes to lower ranks. Anytime you get three or more people of the same rank together, they automatically ask each other Date of Rank to figure out who is in charge... I kid you not.
Once that is settled, the others will expect the one with the longest time in rank to assume leadership when necessary.
I do know that, there are certain skills that simply can't be taught in leadership, they have to be learned and groomed, and in the Corps, that often means that those with some promise of leadership ability, will often be the ones that are leaned on the hardest at times. Pushing and nudging them into learning those skills.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Jun 3 at 2014 9:07 PM

2014-06-03T21:07:16-04:00

Old joke, but answers this question well...what's the difference between an LT2 and a PV2? PV2 has been promoted.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2014 9:22 PM

2014-06-03T21:22:19-04:00

First of all young man you already seem to want to be a leader. PFC Holland, I for one thank you for your service and for being here. You will advance and will learn the ropes. As long as you are hard on yourself and have the proper motivation you can be a 1SG too.

SSgt Larry Olson

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2014 4:37 PM

2014-07-10T16:37:50-04:00

Here is the problem with today's Army as it pertains to the words "Leadership" and "Leader" . The world leadership is used to liberally. To many people confuse leadership with authority. Authority is something granted to an individual based on their duty position or rank. However, having authority does not make you a leader. Leadership does not have a duty position or rank it is something that is intrusted to an individual by those that they lead. It has nothing to do with authority. They are two seperate items totally. Now with that being said can a PFC be a leader? Sure? But, I say that with extreme caution. Because you can not ever truly be a leader until you have learned to follow. That is why the Army has the rank structure it does to give you a glide path on where you should be. I PFC should be focused on self devolpment and learning from the leaders they have good and bad, so that when it is their time to step up they have a full understand of the effect a leader has good and bad on those under them. I know it may be difficult becuase we are taught to be hard charging and you should seek out oppertunities to lead as that is part of devolping, but you need to understand this is the Army and the Army truly has one job. To go, fight and win America's wars. It is the 10+ years experiance that a SSG has that clicks in when the bullets start flying that allows him to make immediate decisions that keep people alive and accomplish a mission. Thats an experiance and repetition a PFC just does not have.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 7:44 AM

2014-09-23T07:44:13-04:00

Rank does not translate directly into leadership. A leader is someone who can influence and motivate individuals to do things. You can do that at any rank. The problem with the Army is that we fail to realize that. We believe that just because a person made it to SGT that they are leaders. They are in a leadership position and by virtue of their rank are expected to take charge. However we all know that's not how it goes down. Some people you have to force into taking charge while others do it naturally. I believe that we (the Army) can do a better job on how we select leaders. We can actually test Soldiers on their leadership capabilities, and no I'm not talking about with some board where a panel ask you questions from a book that you can download off the internet. We can have Soldiers line up in a board and assess a person's ability to lead by putting thm face to face with the troops they will be leading. Leadership is about way more than knowing some answers from a book. Life is unscripted, and you will have to be able to react to what your Soldiers do.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 25 at 2014 10:52 PM

2014-09-25T22:52:36-04:00

I would have to say no but it does help. To elaborate on this great leaders develop a vast array of human capital that gives them the ability to seek feedback from knowledgeable experts. This is the secret of a highly dynamic leader. Like others have said you need to know your personality and how it will integrate with other types of personalities. This is because understanding your personality will shape both your professional and personal relationships. Because of this with rank the access gained to other leaders and experts can be utilized to fostered and strengthening your connections and influence. Don't be confused to think that there is a correlation between rank and leadership. The Medical and Jag branches direct commission officers with the rank being commensurate with the individuals skill set.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-01-20T14:17:21-05:00

Part of the initial counseling I give when joining a new unit includes my belief that leaders lead and rank is immaterial to that. More leadership is, and should be expected, from higher ranks, but higher ranks are not the sole province of leadership.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Jan 20 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-01-20T14:18:59-05:00

I personally do not think rank directly translate to leadership and yes a PFC can be a leader. When I was a PFC I acted as the shift NCOIC several times as we did not have enough NCOs and specialists assigned. I briefed COLs, CSMs, and even GOs as a PFC without batting an eyelash. On the flip side I saw seasoned NCOs just fumble briefings and not set the proper example. Bottom line in my opinion is the person not the rank.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 28 at 2015 7:15 PM

2015-01-28T19:15:12-05:00

Rank is intended to recognize leadership potential, not create it.

Response by PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) made Jan 29 at 2015 12:43 PM

2015-01-29T12:43:59-05:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member this is a great question. I believe that rank should not translate, but the way the military does things it usually works that way. You as a PFC to prove that you have what it takes to step up and lead, has to start with you. Showing up to work on time, volunteer, stay later than the other guys your rank, and keep your nose in the regulations. But there is also a fine line to this as well. You don't want to be seen by the guys or gals of your same rank as the "Brown Noser". Make your changes settle. Talk to your senior NCOs and let them know of your aspirations. If they are good leaders they will guide you in becoming one. Talk to your Officers as well. Again let them know the same thing. If your COC knows that you are wanting to take your career in a positive direction eat up as much guidance and training you can get. Lastly go to school! Take as many English classes and speech classes that you can. The better you can write and speak will help you as well. I wish you the best of luck. If you have any questions don't hesitate.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Mar 13 at 2015 3:52 PM

2015-03-13T15:52:57-04:00

In the Corps, anytime there is a Marine in the Room there is also a Leader; even that Private is expected to square himself away and perform any appropriate action/s.

If there are two Privates, one is in charge by virtue of some discriminator starting with DOR, and is responsible for his actions and the actions of his subordinate.

So, by definition, in the Corps, a PFC is most definitely a leader.

Rank, however, has nothing to do with Leadership ability or potential in practice. But it should. We all hope it does in theory.
And we all execute as though theory is correct until proven otherwise. At which point we have to figure out how we are going to respond.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-04-03T14:30:35-04:00

Rank doesn't make you a leader. Good leaders take initiative to get the task done without being told to do it. Someone who knows their stuff and speaks up when appropriate is a good leader. A good leader should be recognized by their NCO's and promoted accordingly. In my opinion ,if it's done right, the best leaders will have the rank to go with their leadership skills.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2015 4:24 PM

2015-04-03T16:24:40-04:00

Everybody is talking the same talk but they aren't mentioning one key thing I think. Let me start with a personal story.
My unit was mobilized for the last Presidential Inauguration(I was an E-3 at the time). All the NCOs were tasked out doing NCO/admin things and due to some fluke took all the E-4s with them. So all of us junior enlisted spent the next 10hrs staring at the walls and trying not to go insane. During the AAR another PFC piped up saying that there was a lack of leadership and tasks for the majority of the unit. The NCO looked him square in the eye and said "So why didn't you take charge? Why didn't you do some hip pocket training?"

To this day it sticks with me. Being a leader isn't always about rank, or position. It's about stepping up and taking charge when no one else will. Still respect chain of command and all that Jazz but when it's you and bunch of joes... it's on you.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Apr 3 at 2015 4:45 PM

2015-04-03T16:45:30-04:00

Well....ask a WWII Vet....PV1 were in charge when there whole units were wiped out

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 3 at 2015 6:26 PM

2015-04-03T18:26:25-04:00

I hope so, that is where we get our Sergeants from

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 5:43 PM

2016-03-01T17:43:41-05:00

TIG dont really matter but what if there's already a capable E-4 busting his ass for years and all of a sudden a pfc is been made a team leader?