Does someone qualify for the CIB for deploying as an 11B without being MOS qualified?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:19:25 -0400

I have a soldier who volunteered for a deployment as an 11B but is still technically 12B and came back asking if he should have the CIB. I told him i didnt think so but that I'd research for him. Since he was "infantry" on the deployment and with an infantry unit and perfomed the tasks of an Infantrymen does he qualify for the CIB or just the CAB? Since my knowledge on the CIB is limited to what I've read any input would be appreciated.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 31 at 2018 10:24 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:24:36 -0400

You may need to consult the regs on this.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2018 10:32 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:32:44 -0400

Will only be eligible for a CAB as a 12 series, even if doing an 11B job and or in a job that was 11B-sorry to say; them be the regs!

And remember-you don’t need no stinking badges to be True Blue!!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 31 at 2018 12:00 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 12:00:56 -0400

No sir they do not. You will qual for the CAB as stated earlier. You should discuss with those you deployed with. If you fired a round in a fire fight. Many deploy and believe they qualify for being on the ground. You have to be in a fight, or an attack of some sort. There are specifics In The rega. Unless of course the Army has softened its policy for the CAB. Thank you for your service.

Response by PV2 M B made Jul 31 at 2018 12:34 PM

PV2 M B — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 12:34:41 -0400

Nope

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Jul 31 at 2018 12:46 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 12:46:04 -0400

First and foremost, was he involved in a situation that would quantify a CIB. If he did, then the unit he was attached to would be the ones to recommend him and ultimately award him with one. Since he is back and asking, I assume they did not recommend him and therefore I would assume he is not qualified to get one. Did they put him in for a CAB?

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Jul 31 at 2018 1:26 PM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 13:26:42 -0400

Nope, playing Infantry doesn't make you Infantry. CAB for him, if he even saw any action, which nowadays doesn't happen much. Just deploying doesn't rate you a combat badge.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Jul 31 at 2018 1:53 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 13:53:04 -0400

John only having the details you gave I am going to say no. Once you are awarded the MOS and can earn a CIB. However, I you say just the CAB? I dont think it is just the CAB they dont give those away I am pretty sure they are earned. So dont get down on yourself and if you are full of piss and vinegar and need a CIB Become an 11B and go get your fight on.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Jul 31 at 2018 3:03 PM

SFC Harry H. — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:03:00 -0400

I would have to say no he doesn't qualify. The badge is awarded to primary MOS infantrymen and Special Forces soldiers in the rank of colonel and below, who fought in active ground combat while supporting an actual Infantry Mission and assigned as a member of either an Infantry, Ranger or Special Forces unit, of brigade size or smaller, any time after 6 December 1941. He would be put in for a CAB instead given he was actually engaged. Our admin denied my 11B's the CIB because the BDE was supporting a convoy escort mission. They were slapped in the face with CAB's. Your Soldier would have had to be an 11B during the deployment.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 31 at 2018 5:17 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 17:17:10 -0400

That is really one to run by the S1

Response by SGT Douglas Henry made Jul 31 at 2018 9:26 PM

SGT Douglas Henry — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 21:26:52 -0400

Rule #1 be an 11B

Response by SSG Jeffrey Leake made Jul 31 at 2018 11:16 PM

SSG Jeffrey Leake — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 23:16:03 -0400

For award of the CIB a Soldier must meet the following three requirements:

(1) Be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties.

(2) Assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat.

(3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.

b. The specific eligibility criteria for the CIB require that

(1) A Soldier must be an Army infantry or Special Forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or Special Forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat. Eligibility for Special Forces personnel in Military occupational Specialties (MOS) 18B, 18E, 18F, and 18Z (less Special Forces medical sergeant) accrues from 20 December 1989. Retroactive awards of the CIB to Special Forces personnel are not authorized prior to 20 December 1989.

(2) A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy. The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade. For example, personnel possessing an infantry MOS in a rifle squad of a cavalry platoon in a 98 AR 600–8–22 • 11 December 2006 cavalry troop would be eligible for award of the CIB. Battle or campaign participation credit alone is not sufficient; the unit must have been in active ground combat with the enemy during the period.

(3) Personnel with other than an infantry or Special Forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances. The infantry or Special Forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the Soldier’s primary specialty, as long as the Soldier has been properly trained in infantry or Special Forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above. Commanders are not authorized to make any exceptions to this policy.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Aug 1 at 2018 5:19 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 05:19:00 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member if this soldier served as an infantryman in an infantry unit in combat for the required amount of time he should be eligible per HRC guidance.

For award of the CIB a 11 or 18 series Soldier must meet the following three requirements:
(1) Be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties.
(2) Assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat.
(3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.
"On or after 18 September 2001, a Soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires."

Background from ARMY HRC
"The Combat Infantry Badge (CIB) was established by the War Department on 27 October 1943. Lieutenant General Lesley J. McNair, then the Army Ground Forces commanding general, was instrumental in its creation. He originally recommended that it be called the "fighter badge." The CIB was designed to enhance morale and the prestige of the "Queen of Battle." Then Secretary of War Henry Stinson said, "It is high time we recognize in a personal way the skill and heroism of the American infantry." Originally, the Regimental Commander was the lowest level at which the CIB could be approved and its award was retroactive to 7 December 1941. There was a separate provision for badge holders to receive a $10 per month pay stipend, which was rescinded in 1948. From the beginning, Army leaders have taken care to retain the badge for the unique purpose for which it was established and to prevent the adoption of any other badge which would lower its prestige. At the close of World War II, our largest war in which the armor and artillery played key roles in the ground campaigns, a review was conducted of the CIB criteria with consideration being given to creating either additional badges or authorizing the badge to cavalry and armor units. The review noted that any change in policy would detract from the prestige of the badge.

The definition of requirement to be "engaged in active ground combat" has generated much dialog over the years as to the original intent of the CIB. The 1943 War Department Circular required infantrymen to demonstrate "satisfactory performance of duty in action against the enemy." The operative words "in action" connoted actual combat. A War Department determination in October 1944 specified that "action against the enemy" for purposes of award of the CIB was to be interpreted as "ground combat against enemy ground forces." In 1948, the regulation governing badges stipulated that "battle participation credit is not sufficient; the unit must have been in contact with the enemy." This clearly indicated that an exchange of hostile fire or equivalent personal exposure was the intent of the Army leadership. In 1963 and 1965 HQDA messages to the senior Army commander in the Southeast Asia theater of operations authorized award of the CIB to otherwise qualified personnel "provided they are personally present and under fire." U.S. Army Vietnam regulations went so far as to require documentation of the type and intensity of enemy fire encountered by the Soldier. The intended requirement to be "personally present and under fire" has not changed.

For award of the CIB a Soldier must meet the following three requirements:
(1) Be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties.
(2) Assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat.
(3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.

The specific eligibility criteria for the CIB require that an officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or Special Forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat. Eligibility for Special Forces personnel in Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) 18B, 18C, 18E, 18F, and 18Z (less Special Forces medical sergeant) accrues from 20 December 1989. Retroactive awards of the CIB to Special Forces personnel are not authorized prior to 20 December 1989. A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy. The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade.

Personnel with other than an infantry or Special Forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances. The infantry or Special Forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the Soldier’s primary specialty, as long as the Soldier has been properly trained in infantry or Special Forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above. Awards will not be made to general officers or to members of headquarters companies of units larger in size than brigade

On or after 18 September 2001, a Soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform special forces duties while assigned or attached to a special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB. These Soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001. Those Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D who qualify for award of the CMB from 18 September 2001 to 3 June 2005 will remain qualified for the badge."
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Combat%20Infantry%20Badge%20CIB

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Response by SPC Chris Ison made Aug 1 at 2018 12:40 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 12:40:03 -0400

NO! They can get a Combat Action Badge, which is an equivalent award. And they may be able to convert it later.

The big question is: How does one deploy without an MOS?

Response by SSG Alvin Amezquita made Aug 1 at 2018 4:34 PM

SSG Alvin Amezquita — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 16:34:55 -0400

No!! I had a soldier who was not 11B qualified due to a clerical error. He was awarded the CAB even though he had the necessary requirements to receive the CIB. But because there was no proof he was award the CAB. He did not earn a CIB until his second deployment.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 6:18 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 18:18:21 -0400

Yes

Response by SGT Adula Meyers made Aug 11 at 2018 9:08 PM

SGT Adula Meyers — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 21:08:48 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2018 10:46 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:46:17 -0400

I concur with LTC Stephen Ford on what he said on this matter

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2018 10:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:53:22 -0400

Absolutely not. I remember this coming up in OIF I & II. At one time it was possible to OJT as an 11B and receive the MOS. At the time, before the CAB was awarded, everyone was trying to claim a CIB by volunteering for patrols and tower guard.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 19 at 2018 7:45 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 07:45:10 -0400

I had many Soldiers serve in capacity as Infantry during conflict while assigned or attached. They all received the CAB following contact. It is clear that the first criteria is to be 11 or 18, not just performing in the role. He served honorable and should have received the CAB which should indicate his role. Be proud of service, it is really not about the reward. Thank you for your service.

Response by SGT Bill Everidge made Jan 15 at 2019 1:46 PM

SGT Bill Everidge — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 13:46:25 -0500

To the best of my knowledge, only those in SF, outside of actually being 11 series, qualify for the CIB. But I have seen SF personnel wearing CAB’s, so maybe the standard has changed? Or fewer are being awarded. Your engineer could make a strong case for a CIB, personally I think any scout, engineer etc... while actively participating as an Infantryman in a Infantry unit should be awarded, regardless of MOS. But I’m thinking he’ll be awarded the CAB instead.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Jun 6 at 2019 11:12 AM

1SG Ernest Stull — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:12:48 -0400

If he has the infantry as a secondary MOS and served a minimum of 30 days in a combat zone and the unit he deployed with received the CIB then he should have one to. Just my opinion.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jul 2 at 2019 9:46 PM

CPT William Jones — Tue, 02 Jul 2019 21:46:13 -0400

Just being an 11 series and in a hostile fire zone does not qualify anyone for a CIB. You must engage the enemy in combat with direct fire ( mortars,arty do not count.) I think the requirements are the same except for all other mos b

Response by SSG Harry Outcalt made Jun 25 at 2021 12:58 PM

SSG Harry Outcalt — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:58:32 -0400