Does the Air Force promote Airmen too fast?

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 14:22:47 -0500

It is my experience that in about one year from graduating Tech school an Airman Basic (E1) will have attained the rank of Senior Airmen (E4); but still be far from the Professional Airmen that they should be. should the AF extend the TIG promotion requirements of the Junior Enlisted?

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jan 6 at 2016 2:28 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 14:28:01 -0500

Ummm...it takes at least 32 months from your entry date to make Senior Airman, unless you come in with a stripe, in which case you would be an E-2 or an E-3. Also, does the Air Force "Promote" Airmen too fast?

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 6 at 2016 2:45 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 14:45:29 -0500

I was under the impression the Air Force had the slowest promotion rates actually...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 3:05 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 15:05:06 -0500

In my opinion yes. We just had an SSgt make TSgt on his first enlistment. This is because the powers that be thought reducing TIG/TIS points on WAPS would fix our leadership problems. I'm not saying people that make rank quick don't deserve it but they are going to be set up for failure in today's Air Force where we are doing jobs that were held by SNCOs not that long ago. The expectations placed on them will be overwhelming and will ruin their careers if they fail to meet them. Get ready to start seeing a lot of 8 yr MSgts who's only experience is going to school and volunteering. They won't have dealt with many personnel issues and won't know how to mentor the junior grades. Sorry to sound so negative, I really would like to have faith in the new system but after seeing it in action I'm less than impressed. Rant over.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 3:15 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 15:15:06 -0500

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member I think what you are seeing is an issue in the ARC component of the Air Force. In the ARC you are correct, an individual will be an E-4 in roughly one year out of tech school which is also the minimum time required for upgrade to the 5-lvl. Speaking for the AD side of the house, the TIG requirements are quite sufficient IMO. Although TIG for promotion to SSgt may only be 6 months (with 36 mos TIS) if a person were to make SSgt their first opportunity they wouldn't sew on for roughly 13 months after notification. That is 19 months TIG and if you compare the differences in requirements of an E-4 to an E5 (AFI 36-2618) 19 months is plenty of time to prepare to take on those extra responsibilities as an NCO. From there, the TIG requirements increase greatly to where you would typically wear a strip for 3-4 years even if you do promote the first go.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Jan 6 at 2016 4:22 PM

SrA David Steyer — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 16:22:06 -0500

I was an E3 for a bit over two years. I came in an E3 (college) in November 2007 and was a four year enlistee. I didn't put E4 on until March 2010 and that was on time, not below the zone.

I think if you really want to fix the problem, change how the six year contracts are done even though it never bothered me. Currently if you do a six year contract, the date you put E3 on is backdated to when you came in, or graduated basic training (forgot which one) even though you physically won't sew it on until later. So you could put E4 on in a similar period of time as someone like myself. Not to mention you rarely ever see a E1 or E2 anymore outside of Tech School. The number I have seen out of tech school over the entire time I was in was less than ten. The number in trouble? Maybe ten more on top of that?

I wouldn't change the fact that someone gets BTZ could test very early for SSgt as they will still have to wait a year at least and depending on their leadership they may be put in the spotlight and have a lot more eyes on them and attention. It isn't too common that a BTZ winner who tests early actually makes it the first time, if they do great but it's not too common...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 6:21 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 18:21:10 -0500

It'll depend a lot on each individual. I can in just before I turned 28. I was married and already had two kids. I was already running crews of people, managing, leading, etc. I didn't need to learn those things, just how the AF wanted me to do them. On the flip side, younger troops, likely around 22-23 when they make Staff, and no prior experience in the world aren't really equipped to handle leadership roles. Them again, officers come in at about the age most enlisted make Staff and they're trusted with leadership roles so I could be way off base.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 6:52 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 18:52:10 -0500

No I don't think so. I made BTZ and put on SrA right at my 2 year mark. But to be a SrA you need 36 months TIS and 20 months TIG or you need 28 months TIG; whichever comes first. Seems to me that puts the average time it takes to make SrA at about 2.5-3 years. For someone to make SrA within a year of arriving on station it's fair to assume they had a long tech school.

Response by MSgt Ryan Wayson made Jan 6 at 2016 6:56 PM

MSgt Ryan Wayson — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 18:56:36 -0500

Rates of promotion change like the tides. Some years are low; some years are high.

Response by TSgt Terry Hudson made Jan 6 at 2016 7:45 PM

TSgt Terry Hudson — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:45:55 -0500

Not really sure where you saw that but the Air Force requires for Airman First Class to have 28 months Tig or 36 months TIS and 20 months TIG. BTZ only takes 6 months from those requirements. So AFI was definitely violated.

Response by TSgt Terry Hudson made Jan 6 at 2016 7:54 PM

TSgt Terry Hudson — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:54:21 -0500

I have to disagree with you I've been in 5 years and know E6s in the army that went in around the same time as me. It depends on the person and his superiors. In my career field I've seen this a lot. Once an airman makes rank someone of that next rank takes that person under their wing and preps them for that next rank. Soon they find themselves operating at that projected rank before you pin on. When I was SrA with a line number I was put in ALS, and then given 7 troops. Yes 7. We through you to the wolves round these parts lol. But I had staffs and techs walking with me step by step soon after they took of my training wheels and left me to it. I did so well they gave me 3 more troops...yay. Lol I'm down to 4 now. Thank you baby Jesus! Lol

Response by MSgt Matthew Meindl made Jan 6 at 2016 8:59 PM

MSgt Matthew Meindl — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 20:59:38 -0500

Not sure what tech school you are referring to. Not all tech schools are of the same duration. Missile Maintenance tech school only lasted 6 weeks and I was at my first duty assignment months before my first promotion. I then strove for technical mastery in the back shop that I was in and obtained team chief status shortly after my second promotion. The question of being a "professional airman" lies more in the realm of the individual and their experiences.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 9:38 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 09:38:22 -0500

I would argue against the AF promoting too fast. I believe that we have not been very good at accurately giving feedback, guidance, and have not challenged our Airmen to grow early in their careers. That coupled with not holding people accountable on there performance assessments has led to SOME people being promoted before that individual was ready. I believe that the change in how we conduct feedback, the accountability in performance assessments and boarding earlier in a career will make the some that aren't ready much smaller. Airmen will almost always have to grow into rank and positions that are new to them. This growth has to happen and is healthy but is VERY dependent on consistent constructive feedback.

In short no, we don't promote too quickly and the changes that have recently been implemented should further protect against those that aren't ready.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 2:13 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 14:13:12 -0500

Really? I came in as an E-1 and didn't put on E-4 for 36 months...and E-5 about 20 months later. Right after I put on E-5 I met an Army E-6 with about 6 months less TIS than I had.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 6:53 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 18:53:01 -0500

This must be an AFRC specific issue.
I will admit when I was in the Reserves, if there was an open position up the chain in your AFSC, then everyone below would move up.
Case in point I was a E4 on the Friday before the UTA/drill weekend. On the next day I was told I was a "buck sergeant". Then the final day of the same UTA I was given SSgt.
Yes, I completed all required PME months before.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 5:32 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 05:32:36 -0500

I understand the issue of promoting too fast has been in issue particularly in the Air National Guard. However, they have made some changes to slow that down. One change is to base the TIS on when they complete BMT rather than the day they enlist for promotion purposes. This is important because new enlistees start getting paid for showing up to weekend drills for several months before attending BMT. In years past, this time period counted toward their TIS for promotion purposes and when to allow them to attend the Airman Leadership School.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 9:44 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:44:55 -0500

It's 28 months time in grade for an individual who graduates as an E3 (either a 6 year enlistee or a 4 year with college credits, 30 I believe.) now if you're like me and came in at 17, under a four year contract, with no college, than you had to wait 36 months from your TAFMSD, the day you entered, to sew on E4.

It is possible for an Airman to put on E4 at 22 months if they win SrA BTZ and they fall under the 28 month time in service bracket. So if they were say a linguist and went to a 12 month tech school, by the time they inprocessed they would have on E4 within 9-10 months of arriving at their first duty station.

SSG Hasbun is correct, the AF promotes slower than any branch. We are only allowed to test once a year and we have to wait up to a year to put on the next stripe depending on your line number. I've had to wait 9 months from the day I made Staff Sergeant to put on. I'm curious if anyone from other branches could argue that they wait a longer time to promote.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 9:58 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 09:58:23 -0500

Airman can promote to E4 anywhere between 22-36 months. It is dependent upon the length of their contract, if they came in with college, and if they won BTZ.

However, it is my understanding that the AF is the only branch that must wait a year to test each time and we have to wait up to a year to put on the next stripe. I've had to wait 9 months to put on my stripe.

Response by MSgt Joseph Haynes made Jan 12 at 2016 8:17 AM

MSgt Joseph Haynes — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 08:17:56 -0500

Unless TIG requirements changed since in retired in 2012, your timeline at a year is only good for E-3 not SrA. The AF has one of the slowest promotion rates and the lowest demotion rate (my personal observations). Look at the Army who seemingly freely gives and takes rank. A soldier can become an E6 by 7 years and I've seen SFC at 7 years.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 11:22 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:22:03 -0500

It's not a one size fits all situation. When I enlisted, was 21 and had 3 years of college under my belt. I was more mature and better educated than many of the E5s in the unit. I came in as an E3 and got below the zone to SRA within 6-8 months. I was the lead surveyor on several construction projects. On one occasion I took over and designed a small arms firing range at Shaw AFB when the LT in charge came down with appendicitis.
So I am somewhat ambivalent on TIG requirements. On one hand, I think there should be a requirement in order to give a person time to learn and grow. But on the other hand, if the person is capable of (or actually doing) the responsibilities of the next higher rank, they deserve to be promoted.

Response by SrA Michael Risney made Jul 28 at 2016 3:37 PM

SrA Michael Risney — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:37:18 -0400

Bullshit..... Should be around 2 - 3 years total time in service to make E4? This would depend on what rank you graduated Basic with.

If you made BTZ or were just bad ass, some people would make E-5 in 4 years. Was not everyday thing.

Response by MSgt Jon P. (Pat) Hogan made Aug 15 at 2016 11:34 AM

MSgt Jon P. (Pat) Hogan — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:34:04 -0400

I retired out of the Guard in 2007. But I saw a lot of people promoted to SrA who didn't deserve it (yet). When I first enlisted, a 5-level was required for promotion to Senior Airman. That requirement was later deleted.

Perhaps it's time to bring it back.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 9:27 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:27:12 -0400

There should definitely be a TIG TIS requirement that comes with each rank. Obviously as the ranks get hire, the requirements should be somewhat longer than the last. I know many E4 and below who are immature and not ready for the responsibility of becoming a Non Commissioned Officer. Flip side I know quite a few who are far more mature, have more common sense, and logical/tactical thinking skills than many NCOs. Perhaps those NCOs were promoted too soon? I'm not sure. Take this as an example, there are Soldiers in my unit coming in as PFCs, or /SPCs with a degree, and their MOS is 88M. Now those SPC just need 6 months TIG to go to the board which they have after BCT &AIT, and they're promotable, then they go to BLC, and bam, there points are 39, so all they had to do was wake up on cutoff day and they made it. Now that Soldier is an E5 with less than 2 years in, in charge of Soldiers with 4,5,6 years in, and some might say well they should get promoted and you're right. But what happens in another 6 months when he can go to the board again and become an E6 and now he's a squad leader and in some units a plt Sgt with less than 3-4 years in over 20+ personnel? TIG and TIS requirements are a must and the higher the rank the greater the requirement not only for the sake of the individual being promoted, but for the Soldiers for whom he or she will be responsible for.

Response by MSgt Charles Grove made Aug 16 at 2016 7:59 AM

MSgt Charles Grove — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 07:59:36 -0400

In my day as an Airman, we weren't promoted to Senior Airman until we hit our 3rd year mark (Sept 1989). By the time I had joined the Air Guard (Oct 1992) the AF/DOD had done away with Buck Sergeant. Although in that time period (and I guess even now) if a person had a minimum of an Assoc. Degree coming out of Basic they were promoted to Amn1st class (E-3). BUT I believe they wore that until the proper promotion time until SrA... again 3rd year. They just got the E-3 pay while the rest of us went through the "proper" TIS/TIG. I can't say anything about the current active duty setup. Air Guard is based on promotable slots in the shop/squadron. Most guaranteed slots were up to E-5, but you still had to accomplish the CDCs for PME and career field, etc. prior to a slot opening up. You just didn't have to test for a line number like the active side did/does.

Response by CMSgt Mickey Wright made Aug 16 at 2016 10:51 AM

CMSgt Mickey Wright — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:51:20 -0400

Sounds like the original author is whining about his own slow promotion rates. If he was a squared away NCO he'd take his younger Airmen and provide them mentorship and leadership. I always encouraged my Airmen to study hard, save money, plan for the future, earn a college degree, and set them up for the next USAF step. From young Airmen to seasoned SNCOs, we can all learn from those above and below us, however, too many above us are the plugs in the system who block progress. Lead, follow, or get out of the way--this is how the AF is doing it; if you don't like it, get promoted and change it.

Response by SSgt Paul Esquibel made Aug 16 at 2016 4:54 PM

SSgt Paul Esquibel — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:54:57 -0400

Well I personally think that the Air Force started it slow decline in the type of leadership it produced when it took away the Buck sergeant rank unfortunately today the problem you see is that not many airman are getting meant toward and prepared for the next rank and this leads to having a situation where you have a inexperienced individual controlling the careers of junior airman but without the proper training. You see initially when you became a senior meant you were supposed to be heading towards airmen leadership school but now those airman are no longer getting those slots and they are pipelining staff Sergeant selects for those slots the idea was to get the training ahead of time and be able to work out the kinks and quirks of supervising until you were ready to promote to the next level. While some individuals are more mature than others regardless of age I would say the majority of personnel need to have the experience of messing up and struggling and overcoming in order to be in efficient supervisor in other words you can't help out the situation Fully unless you been in similar circumstances and you'll get that with experience

Response by TSgt Mario Guajardo made Aug 16 at 2016 5:23 PM

TSgt Mario Guajardo — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:23:52 -0400

That depends on many factors, the individual, their supervision, opportunities for training...just to name a few. In 20 years there were some that excelled, some that never realized their potential and some that were just there...

Response by SSgt Christopher Mortell made Aug 16 at 2016 9:16 PM

SSgt Christopher Mortell — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:16:36 -0400

I think it's a double-edged sword. TIG at the junior enlisted is too fast. TIG at the junior NCO level can be so long it's demoralizing. It was for me. Almost made it seem like busting my ass wasn't worth it. Other people just waited it out (some not all). I got out at 8 because I saw the future (or more specifically, didn't see a future) and thought I could do better outside. While getting out was a mistake for many reasons, pay was not one of them.

Response by Sgt Ted Smith made Aug 17 at 2016 6:24 PM

Sgt Ted Smith — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:24:43 -0400

I served in the AF Security Service 1954-1958. Korean war was winding down and AF was downsizing so rank in the surplus career fields were frozen. My career field was expanding as the USAFSS was formed in 1951 and was still recruiting and training a command that's core was still the old army air force that transited into the newly formed USAF. Despite that, it took me 3 years to make E-4 and E-5 was only available as an inducement for another 4 year enlistment. If the time in grade requirements for advancement has not changed, I assume that a person could advance rapidly if his command officer felt the candidate was exceptionally well qualified which would place him/her ahead of all qualified candidates on the promotion roster.

Response by TSgt Clifton "Chip" Walker Cason made Aug 17 at 2016 6:47 PM

TSgt Clifton "Chip" Walker Cason — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:47:48 -0400

I had all my schools and training requirements and had airman catching up and bypassing me in rank because they were in the commander's click (drinking buddies) and I wasn't.

Response by MSgt Darryl Holt made Aug 17 at 2016 10:49 PM

MSgt Darryl Holt — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 22:49:22 -0400

I attended a SNCO induction seminar back in '03 and one of the guest speakers was the PACAF/CCM CMSgt McKinley. A TSgt complained about the same thing, that the AF permitted to many to fast and most didn't have the experience to lead. Chief's response still sticks with me: "So what are you doing about it besides bitching and complaining? How many of these inexperienced and not ready NCO's have you taken under your wing and mentored until they were effective leaders?" The AF promotes to future potential.

Response by CMSgt Lloyd French made Aug 18 at 2016 9:20 AM

CMSgt Lloyd French — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:20:11 -0400

There are 3 secrets to successful promotion testing:
1) study: Study (READ) your PFE materials. The answers to test questions come just about word for word out of there.
2) Study: STUDY ALL of your SKT materials. Just because you're good at YOUR job, it doesn't mean you know all there is to know about ALL of the job.
3) STUDY: Study your TEST when you take it. Get a feel for how the questions are asked and where the questions seem to concentrate.
It took me a few years to break the "code" but I shot up through the ranks after that. People get promoted quickly in all the services. They learn to lead from those who mentor them. Be a mentor, share your experience (good and bad)...they'll learn from it.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 11:25 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:25:43 -0400

This statement is not correct. An airman through the door as an E-1 doesn't make E-4 until 3 years TIS assuming he or she doesn't get promoted below the zone. Other branches promote much faster than Air Force. I've seen E-5s and 6s in Army and MC with far less time than the average for AF. This assumption is simply wrong.

Response by Capt Christopher Bennett made Aug 21 at 2016 3:24 PM

Capt Christopher Bennett — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 15:24:49 -0400

There's no chance unless tech school is 36 months? Sounds crazy.

Response by MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy made Aug 21 at 2016 7:13 PM

MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:13:24 -0400

Im my opinion, no. Whereas the general rule of thumb is: the average active-duty advancement time to Senior Airman (SrA) (E-4) is 3 years, your 'subjective' experience and use of the term 'Professional Airman' exposed a 'secundum quid' fallacy that undermines the need to extend the TIG promotion requirement for SrA beyond this 3 years, especially since the minimum Air Force enlistment period is 4 years, and the average Air Force wide active duty time for promotion to SSgt is 4-plus years.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but according the referenced article, 3 years appears to be the earliest reckoning a SrA may advance to SSgt (E-5) and promotion to SSgt requires 3 years TIS and 6 months TIG [as a SrA]. On an initial enlistment, this requirement leaves a year — or less — to acclimate to new NCO roles and responsibilities, and decide to re-enlist. In other words, fast-tracking to SSgt self-incentivizes aligment with the Air Force's ultimate personnel strategy to promote deserving Junior NCOs to Senior NCOs that demonstrate potential to satisfy future Air Force needs.

Background:

In the Air Force, SrA are in a transition period from a 5 skill-level journeyman Senior Airmen (SrA-E-4) to a 7 skill-level craftsman Junior NCOs (SSgt-E-5). The Air Force defines a should-be 'Professional Airman' that is worthy of being a SSgt as SrA that have: 1) developed supervisory and leadership skills through Professional Military Experience and individual study, 2) conducted themselves IAW established standards, 4) provided a positive influence and example for their subordinates and peers, and 4) presented an image of competence, integrity, and pride.

REF: http://www.military.com/air-force/enlisted-ranks.html#jr-enlisted-ranks

Enlisted Air Force Ranks

Enlisted Air Force ranks are broken down into three levels: Airmen, Non-Commissioned Officers, and Senior Non-Commissioned Officers.

Response by TSgt Kerry Hardy made Jul 9 at 2017 6:11 PM

TSgt Kerry Hardy — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:11:37 -0400

When did TIG go out? I had to wait 36 months for SrA but now you get in 12/24? You need TIG to learn to be that rank or you will never be a good supervisor of that rank. Sad state of affairs USAF has become....

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2017 6:42 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:42:06 -0400

How can an E-1 go to E-4 in a year when it takes 3 years to go from E-1 to E-4 unless you go BTZ which knocks it down to 30 months. But Active AF is promoting people way to fast now and moving them out of jobs way to fast. A 2-3 year airman is training new airmen because they think NCOs shouldn't work now.

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Jul 9 at 2017 8:00 PM

MSgt John Taylor — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 20:00:10 -0400

I had to chase E-4 back in the 80's. When I made SSgt it was 18%, and TSgt was 7%. I doubt that you made rank under those percentages, so why would you want it harder for those that come after you? If your a SSgt, then you should have SSgt responsibilities no matter how easy/early you made it.

Response by Sgt Larry Gibson made Jul 10 at 2017 12:02 AM

Sgt Larry Gibson — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 00:02:05 -0400

How times change! When I went in, '79, we made SrA (E-4) in about three years and Sgt E4 just before our time for ETS. Making SSgt in 4 was very rare. Seems to me as if there is no longer any experience necessary to make rank. From one extreme to another I guess.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2017 12:30 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 00:30:38 -0400

I was a E4 with 5 years in the Army when I transferred into the air guard. I had a fresh out of tech school A1C process me into the unit. He became a E5 before I did.

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Jul 10 at 2017 12:54 AM

SSG Jim Foreman — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 00:54:51 -0400

I've been out of the military for a long time. Isn't there such a thing as time in grade and time in service? I know there was in the Army...

Response by SSgt Luis Romero made Jul 10 at 2017 12:03 PM

SSgt Luis Romero — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:03:15 -0400

Things have changed in the 8-9 years since I got out. I made to SSgt in my enlistment, I never dreamed of getting to TSgt in those six years.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2017 5:42 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:42:20 -0400

1 year is crazy unless they are getting the Medal of Honor. I think mine was 28 months with the 6 year contract.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2019 4:07 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:07:15 -0400

Yes 100% they are making E2 mistakes at E4 and sometimes even E5 all because they took a test but are not yet an ideal leader or even out of the lower enlisted stage.

Response by SSgt Jt Toten made Jul 9 at 2019 1:15 PM

SSgt Jt Toten — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 13:15:34 -0400

Air Force has issues with their career fields requirements. When I was a SRA E-4 I had more responsibilities and lot more training to to achieve before I could make E-5 than other career fields. So people was getting promoted faster than ones with more time and grade because of the level of their training.

Response by TSgt Charles Urban made Jul 9 at 2019 1:46 PM

TSgt Charles Urban — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 13:46:48 -0400

Yes, education is not the only measure of maturity. Time and experience are needed to compliment education in the maturation process.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Jul 9 at 2019 3:23 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 15:23:23 -0400

In the Army, E1-E4 usually takes about a year. Our E4 rank is split into E4 Specialist and Corporal with Corporal being an earned NCO rank that takes longer to achieve although it is possible to go from Specialist to E5 Sergeant. From E4-E5 averages 2-3 years,from E4 on up each rank is more difficult to achieve so many retire as E6 or E7 at 20 years. In my opinion, this is how it should be, E2 and E3 should be easy to breeze through, then 6 months to E4, then each succeeding rank harder to obtain.

Response by SPC Charlie Msrtin made Jul 9 at 2019 3:58 PM

SPC Charlie Msrtin — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 15:58:25 -0400

When I was in, I made E-2 Oct 85 and E-3 June 86 but then got busted down

Response by PO3 David Davis made Jul 9 at 2019 8:30 PM

PO3 David Davis — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 20:30:10 -0400

Yes as far being in charge. They have no experience.

Response by CWO4 Brook Kelsey made Jul 10 at 2019 12:55 AM

CWO4 Brook Kelsey — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 00:55:57 -0400

Promotions are based on the need of the Military Occupation! Vietnam and prior there were plenty of promotions based on need (I.e. “field” or war time promotion based on the fact that the senior was killed in combat)! Just be humble and quit worrying about how today’s promotions work!

Response by TSgt James Warfield made Nov 30 at 2019 11:36 PM

TSgt James Warfield — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 23:36:20 -0500

W0W didn't know the AF changed that much in the 20 some years. When I was in it took at lest 2 years to get to AIC and 3 to get Senior Airman then it was below the zone. To my knowledge I don't know of any one who made E-5 before their forth year and took at lest a year to before the sewed it on. So E-5 was at lest 4 and half to 5 years if my memory serves me right.

Response by SFC Joseph Lumpkins made Dec 1 at 2019 7:13 AM

SFC Joseph Lumpkins — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 07:13:35 -0500

I served from 1980-2002 and worked with many AF personal during my career and always remembered how slow they promoted them. I made SGT/E-5 in 30 months and the AF personal we’re still wearing the E-4 stripes. Boy times have changed.

Response by MSgt Jeff Bailey made Dec 1 at 2019 9:16 AM

MSgt Jeff Bailey — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 09:16:32 -0500

AF used to have the slowest promotion rates, but now 50% a year is not unusual. While many lament the quick promotions no one seems to be looking at why this is happening. We must have some terrible retention ranks of E-5/6s for so many positions to come open every year. If we don't fix the retention problem, this trend will continue.