Does the QMP board look at one bad NCOER as stand alone, or will they take a whole career into account?

2018-06-21T12:05:50-04:00

I just received my first bad NCOER after 17 years in the Army. To be honest it was a bit harsh and my rater and I really did not get along. I believe that he purposely sabotaged my clearance over a small issue that removed me from my position. I feel I did not meet his expectations in some areas, and I had one issue with my clearance that has temporary removed me from my position (failing to report a marriage). I did not get a RFC, but I receive 2 bad bullets and my senior rater who never once spoke to me gave me an unqualified. I am scared I will lose my career right as my time is winding down. Can anyone tell me does the QMP board look at this NCOER as stand alone, or will they take my whole career into account. I am very scared about losing my career, and I am hoping that the Army will allow me to recover from this.

My last 2 NCOERS praised me very well, higly qualified and among the best. I am at my ropes end with my current unit, since leadership went behind my back while I was in SLC to make all of this happen, I was given no way to defend my self in any of this.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 12:13 PM

2018-06-21T12:13:05-04:00

Even if you come down on QMP you can always send back a rebuttal to show why you should not be discharged.

I came down on QMP last year (2017) because I hadn't done SLC within 3 years TIG. I had to defer it because my daughter has had serious medical issues. I got a memo that stated I came up on QMP and what my options were. You select either you want to rebut it or you will take what they have and be discharged. If you do rebut it, you send in all supporting documentation you can. I sent in doctors letters, the deferment paperwork, and letters from current and prior leadership as to why I should stay and that as soon as her condition improved I would go to SLC. They allowed me to stay and I went to SLC this year since she had her transplant in October last year (I was going to go either way).

I don't know exactly what QMP looks at and if they're hell bent on getting people out since we aren't drawing down anymore.

If you come down on QMP you rebut it and give reasons and proof why you shouldn't be kicked out. However, I don't see how what you said it is all on your rater or senior rater or leadership. You fully admit you failed to report a marriage and that caused clearance issues. That is on you. If you didn't meet rater expectations...it is saying something that if you never have talked to your senior rater how they can rate you.

You will just have to wait and see what happens I think. I don't know that anyone can predict what will happen.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 21 at 2018 12:48 PM

2018-06-21T12:48:48-04:00

First, did you apeal? As for one bad NCOER, does it reflect the loss of clearance? If yes then it could be reviewed very harshly. If not then one bad is not the nail, necessarily. They do look at your entire jacket. Were you referred by your command to QMP or notified by HRC? At any rate you just graduated school, you say you have a stellar record. Submit a letter to the board whil appealing to your COC. Good luck, thank you for your service.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 1:06 PM

2018-06-21T13:06:19-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I’m not sure about the QMP process, as I’ve now been out for few years. However, I’ve been in the clearance game for a while, and failure to report a marriage is not a small issue.
That alone is worth at least two negative bullet points on an NCOER.
Im curious as to why you have never spoken to your senior rater?

Best of luck you.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jun 21 at 2018 1:19 PM

2018-06-21T13:19:06-04:00

I just believe that you you had a bad EER the reason I say that I had one or two but I think one now that I think about it and my 16.5 years gone and no retirement and got nothing I live to tell I got seveirly screwed and I always loved the Army and Enjoyed it.Wish I could get my Retirement. Good luck at least you can Retire.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jun 21 at 2018 2:43 PM

2018-06-21T14:43:09-04:00

Praying for you, Staff Sergeant Bozo, that your whole career might be taken into consideration. - Margaret C. Higgins U.S. Army Retired

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 7:17 PM

2018-06-21T19:17:33-04:00

I have handled many QMP notices and results over the last three years. The cases I have seen like yours where there was one negative NCOER, and it was not for a lack of character or integrity, plus there are other NCOER with good remarks, the QMP board kept the SM.
Another thing to consider, is that if you are at 18.5 years when you receive your notification you will be allowed to retire.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 7:19 PM

2018-06-21T19:19:14-04:00

You’re an Intel guy and you failed to report a marriage. If it was to a foreign national that’s a big failure. So being removed from your position causes a couple of issues. First, you’re not available to work, second, you cause a security threat. If I was the 2 I would have slammed you too. But, your saving grace is that when you hit 18 years you will be locked into sanctuary, if you apply. So just make it to 18 and you should be good for retirement if that is what you are looking for. Appeal till you hit 18. If that doesn’t work join the Reserves or Guard to finish out. But really, I’m not sure how you thought you were going to defend against the facts? The DOD and Army policy is very clear. If you were in my shop I would have removed you permanently to show the other team members the seriousness of your mistake. QMP looks at everything but I’m sure this evaluation will be weighted heavy. Good luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 7:47 PM

2018-06-21T19:47:51-04:00

APPEAL TILL YOU HIT 18. Also the time you are identified they give you 7 months. The rule book says if you are at 18 years before that 7 months has elapsed they will just allow you to retire at 20. But truth be told with the size up and 700B defense budget and future potential wars to come with everything going on in the world. They will retain you and promote you. Remember its the needs of the Army that counts!

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Jun 21 at 2018 10:31 PM

2018-06-21T22:31:28-04:00

You said you were an intell guy who married a foreign national. You did not say if she was from a hostile country or ally. I also married a foreign national, but I contacted CCF and asked for the steps and what I needed to do. Seems like I was the first one to go through that process with the SSO. I took that to read I was the first in 50 plus years who had a close continous relationship with a Korean. Or as a PFC in my office put it, I was the first to get L in Korea.... If you were a civilian, you would be unemployed. I was trying to prevent that. If you married a hostile power's citizen....you are the intelligence specialist....should you be in the Army.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 11:44 PM

2018-06-21T23:44:09-04:00

I knew two SSG's who were put on the QMP list. Both had gotten DUI's while SSG's. Otherwise, their careers had been solid, if not exceptional. One is now a SFC, the other is a SSG (P) waiting for an SLC slot.
I know one former SFC who got QMP'ed. He got an "Army Values" NO. He had a verified as in,"What kind of special program did you come in under?" EO complaint. He is now a civilian.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Jun 22 at 2018 10:37 AM

2018-06-22T10:37:06-04:00

I don't think "unqualified" will get you QMP'd. I guess it all depends on what the MILPER message states. Typically every year they are looking for different criteria to kick Soldiers out. I assume it all depends on how many they want out that year. If you are notified that you are being considered for QMP, go see JAG immediately and start your appeal. I wouldn't wait though, go submit your first appeal now, before your notified of QMP. You should submit your first one to evaluation branch. Try to get it out of your records. They can replace it with a memo of non rated time. If you are notified by HRC that you are being considered for QMP, then you will have to submit an additional appeal to the QMP board. I have seen appeals go both ways. Good luck. Don't sit around and wait. Get proactive versus reactive.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 22 at 2018 2:32 PM

2018-06-22T14:32:03-04:00

When I was active, 1 bad one most likely not. They understand that different unit's and raters can have an affect. Did you talk to your CSM about this?

Response by MSG Justin Kuchar made Jun 23 at 2018 12:15 AM

2018-06-23T00:15:05-04:00

If you don't have a clearance as a Senior NCO you will likely be QMPd as I understand it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2018 4:11 PM

2018-10-12T16:11:54-04:00

In answer to your initial question, the QMP board takes a holistic approach. They have to look at everything in your record and whatever you submit in your rebuttal memo and other documentation. In regards to your NCOER, have you looked in AR 623-3 under the chapter where that discusses the appeal process? I highly recommend that you do so. I appealed an NCOER and I won my appeal, and HRC corrected my NCOER. As I'm sure you know that everything in the Army is a process and if you do your research and you have your ducks in a row, you will be victorious. The first thing you need to do is go to JAG with your NCOER and have an attorney look it over. From submission to the result it took about 3 months for my appeal to go through and be resolved. Hope this helps!

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Oct 19 at 2018 6:33 PM

2018-10-19T18:33:36-04:00

That is what caused my career in the army 1 bad NCOER and I had 16.5 years in and I think it was down right wrong!! The Bastards are clueless they give dam about your life they Just want Screw you over I was QMPED and also Recommend to the ADVANCE course by the Dam board Go Figure that out I don't understand that at all. SSG MARK FRANZEN USA COLD WAR VET

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2019 9:49 AM

2019-02-04T09:49:42-05:00

Welp, I see you're SFC now, so things worked out in your favor, I take it?

Response by SSG James Behnke made Mar 7 at 2019 12:19 PM

2019-03-07T12:19:10-05:00

Have you looked at the most recent MILPER message regarding QMP at http://armyreenlistment.com/board.html? It is actually fairly informative. From the research I have been doing since being informed of my own pending QMP... they pull your ENTIRE AMHRR, to include the restricted section. I would HOPE that your service record would heavily outweigh this single incident, and they could clearly see you should be retained. However, I have little faith in the "checks and balances" that supposedly exist in the Army's administrative OR judicial processes. Yes, I would be worried, and in your shoes I would immediately be making preparations for worst case scenario, while also preparing your own letter to the board (when submitting evidence in why you should be retained, you can ONLY submit evidence/documents/etc. that are not already included in your record).

I would also get a consultation with a civilian lawyer who specializes in administrative actions (The legal assistance lawyer you will be assigned has likely had less than 4 years in the Army and very possibly will have had little to no experience with the QMP process... speaking from personal experience.)

I hope the best for you. Remember, not a single person on this planet cares about your career more than you. Fight for it.

Virtual Retention Board

A section of the unit bulletin board will be properly labeled for the display of retention material. Current program information will also be posted, i.e. SRB information, In/Out Calls Message, etc.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Aug 30 at 2019 7:25 PM

2019-08-30T19:25:37-04:00

I had the same thing happened to me and my career came to end and it pissed off and my rater and I didn't get along either.

Response by COL John McClellan made Jul 15 at 2021 8:10 AM

2021-07-15T08:10:33-04:00

Short answer - yes, absolutely should. Every board I ever sat on was very cognizant of protecting the rights of Soldiers and always took the longer view.