Does the Supreme Court case of John Doe #1 v. Rumsfeld (Anthrax vaccination) make the order to get the Covid vaccine an unlawful order?

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 11:28:50 -0400

The case itself is about Anthrax however, if the Covid vaccine is being used for anything other than what is on the label that is pending FDA approval, does that make it unlawful under the references in the court case about Experimental Drugs / Emergency Use Drugs??? The court case is on the premises of federal law (10 U.S.C. § 1107), Presidential Executive Order (Executive Order 13139), & DoD Directive 6200.2.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 11:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 11:32:06 -0400

What order? There is no order mandating DoD personnel to get the covid vaccine at this moment.

It's supposed to have full certification by end of August/beginning of September. The memo issued by SECDEF said that there needs to be a plan in place by 15 September OR whenever full certification happens - whichever comes first.

Also who is using the covid vaccine for anything other than what the EUA authorizes it for?

The military mandating the covid vaccine will not be "unlawful." You have a choice like everyone else - either you get it when it's mandated OR you can face UCMJ. You can ETS if you're close to your ETS. There's choices.

Response by SrA John Monette made Aug 17 at 2021 11:49 AM

SrA John Monette — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 11:49:39 -0400

what "other" things would it be used for?

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Aug 17 at 2021 11:54 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 11:54:55 -0400

Quit looking for outs and get vaccinated! Your other option is getting sicker than hell and perhaps meeting some ICU nurses who care more about your health than you.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Aug 17 at 2021 11:58 AM

SFC Randy Hellenbrand — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 11:58:50 -0400

GET THE DAMN SHOT!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sick of you spreaders!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 12:03 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 12:03:28 -0400

This isn’t the hill to die on.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Aug 17 at 2021 12:13 PM

CSM William Everroad — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 12:13:16 -0400

In this case the court found that "This Court is persuaded that AVA [Anthrax vaccine] is an investigational drug and a drug being used for an unapproved purpose."

The intended purpose at that time of the AVA was to conduct phase 3 human trials. In which case they needed the participants' consent to deliver the vaccine. Which they weren't getting.

Conversely, the FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. Hence, the FDA approved the COVID vaccines to address the biological threat of COVID in the pandemic emergency. The difference between the AVA and Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, is the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have completed Phase 3 trials and formal approval is slated for next month.

Could this mean that DoD can mandate vaccination now for COVID and win in court, probably. But it seems they will wait until it is approved next month.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 17 at 2021 12:32 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 12:32:14 -0400

I hope not. Stupidity like that makes our military unable to deploy

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Aug 17 at 2021 1:07 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:07:22 -0400

As long as the POTUS waives the consent requirement in writing, then it is a lawful order. There is no mandate currently but I suspect if there is, such a requirement will be met.

"In the case of the administration of an investigational new drug or a drug unapproved for its applied use to a member of the armed forces in connection with the member’s participation in a particular military operation, the requirement that the member provide prior consent to receive the drug in accordance with the prior consent requirement imposed under section 505(i)(4) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 355(i)(4)) may be waived only by the President. The President may grant such a waiver only if the President determines, in writing, that obtaining consent is not in the interests of national security."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1107

John Doe #1 v. Rumsfeld hinged on the fact that there was no such presidential waiver. I find it unlikely if the Biden administration requires the COVID vaccine that such a waiver will not be provided.

10 U.S. Code § 1107 - Notice of use of an investigational new drug or a drug unapproved for its...

Subsec. (f)(2). Pub. L. 108–375, §726(a)(2), added par. (2) and struck out former par. (2) which read as follows: “In making a determination to waive the prior consent requirement on a ground described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1), the President shall apply the standards and criteria that are set forth in the relevant FDA regulations for a waiver of the prior consent requirement on that ground.”

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made Aug 17 at 2021 2:03 PM

CPL Earl Kochis — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 14:03:41 -0400

Can’t mandate a therapy that wil make you the property of a corporation! Stop calling it a vaccine and call it what it is an RNA therapy! And the Left leaning Liberals want to talk about misinformation

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 2:13 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 14:13:57 -0400

My main intent with posing this question is to get people thinking and to better understand the situation. I understand SECDEF is seeking a Presidential waiver. The order part came from my local chain of command saying to get it before the 15th of September.

As for the Vaccine, I can't bring myself to understand why such a push is being made when it does not cure or prevent infection, not a single vaccine does. It only keeps you from developing symptoms or keeps them to a minimal level supposedly. You can still carry, spread, and be infected with it after being inoculated. A prime example of such a case would be the 2014 Mumps outbreak in the National Hockey League.

As for getting Covid, I was told I had Covid and put into ROM while at my previous duty station. The day before the test I had seasonal symptoms of the common cold (also that of Covid), taking Dayquil & Nyquil capsules before and during the beginning my ROM for a total of 4 days of use. My symptoms were gone and my body felt fine before the first week of ROM had concluded. The few others that had also ROM'd from my work center a few days prior were in a similar situation where they had no more symptoms prior to end of ROM. None of us had any reoccurring symptoms or complications of any kind either.

Now I understand science has come a long way over the years and is still advancing further but, why is this the only vaccine in history that has been pushed the way it has? All these free contest entries, free food, special deals and other items just to entice the populace to get it. That does not make any sense to me.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 2:15 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 14:15:20 -0400

There is no order. SecDef Austin penned a sort of warning order to expect it in coming weeks. The case may have weight later, TBD. https://media.defense.gov/2021/Aug/09/ [login to see] /-1/-1/0/MESSAGE-TO-THE-FORCE-MEMO-VACCINE.PDF

MESSAGE-TO-THE-FORCE-MEMO-VACCINE.PDF

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Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 17 at 2021 3:02 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 15:02:00 -0400

Nope! Sure doesn't. Keep directing those airplanes and leave the lawyering to the lawyers. By the time it comes down as a mandate, it will have already made it through dozens upon dozens of legal reviews and formal opines.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Aug 17 at 2021 5:21 PM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 17:21:40 -0400

While I was active, I could not get the Yellow Fever vaccine due to a hyper sensitivity to eggs. The vaccine is created in chicken eggs. I had a valid medical exemption. I always understood I could refuse medical treatment. There may be other consequences of this action but treatment was my choice.
All this said, I see know valid reason not to get the vaccine. Whether or not a SM can be ordered to receive a medical treatment or not, is up to the lawyers.

Response by CPL Linda B. made Aug 17 at 2021 5:27 PM

CPL Linda B. — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 17:27:18 -0400

Good question

Response by Capt Gregory Prickett made Aug 17 at 2021 6:02 PM

Capt Gregory Prickett — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:02:11 -0400

What Supreme Court case? Doe v Rumsfeld never made it to the Supreme Court. Hell, it never made it through the Circuit Court of Appeals, as the FDA changed the label use to include the one the military was using it for.

The decision was a trial court decision, so it's not precedent. You'll have to take the shot.

Response by SSG Jerry Pannell made Aug 17 at 2021 7:24 PM

SSG Jerry Pannell — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:24:35 -0400

The Covid 19 shot should not be forced on anyone it should be your own choice too many unknown issues with it but I made my own choice to take The Johnson & Johnson with no Issues.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 17 at 2021 8:47 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:47:34 -0400

Jesus H Christ, and just how many shots did you get when you came in? Anyone ask your opinion then? Ever been deployed- again more shots- They ask your opinion then either? Nothing is 100% safe- but its better than dying or lying around for weeks with a tube stuck down your airway!

Response by COL Rich McKinney made Aug 18 at 2021 8:36 AM

COL Rich McKinney — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:36:32 -0400

Contrary to the press at the time, the Anthrax shot WAS certified as safe. It had been used for decades in the US for textile mill workers.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 18 at 2021 4:29 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:29:09 -0400

Go back and read the case and see why they won. It got to the DoD trying to use it for Inhalational Anthrax for which it was not approved for. Not the same, get the shots.

Response by CPT Mike Theimer made Sep 19 at 2021 5:27 PM

CPT Mike Theimer — Sun, 19 Sep 2021 17:27:00 -0400

First none of the Covid vaccines are FDA approved which basically means it has not been tested (long tern) long enough to assure those getting the vaccine that its safe and effective.
I remember Vietnam veterans being told that Agent Orange was safe for humans....decades later guess what has happened.
During the Iraq war, burn pits were ordered and soldiers were exposed to all kinds of toxic fumes/chemicals....and what has happened?
I have no problem putting my life on the line to defend my country, but I draw the line when the government tells me 'its safe' when the government has had a long history of lies.

Response by SrA Miles Humphreys made Sep 23 at 2021 9:51 AM

SrA Miles Humphreys — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:51:40 -0400

Probably not. They do what they want, scare who they can, while intimidating the rest.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Sep 23 at 2021 10:28 AM

SFC Randy Hellenbrand — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:28:49 -0400

Only to nutcase anti vaxers.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Sep 23 at 2021 1:03 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:03:56 -0400

The COVID vaccine is no longer considered experimental, so no it doesn't apply.

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Sep 26 at 2021 2:03 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:03:22 -0400

You would have to argue that in a lawsuit after suffering an injury from the order.

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Sep 26 at 2021 2:12 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:12:43 -0400

And for gregory.. Here is a court ruling stating that the military Mus get consent for vaccination in regards to anthrax... Only the lawsuit against Rumsfeld by name was dismissed because of sovereign immunity... https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/vaccines/Doe_v_Rumsfeld_I.htm

Court says military must get consent for anthrax vaccinations - John Doe #1 v. Rumsfeld, ---...

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2021 2:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 14:23:49 -0400

I would not recommend the vaccine. My daughter almost dies of blood clots in the brain due to the vaccine. And many others have died of the vaccine, however, has been published that the person die of COVID, in which have been many lies about that.

Response by Cpl J Lester made Oct 28 at 2021 2:27 PM

Cpl J Lester — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 14:27:44 -0400

This case (Doe vs Rumsfeld) did not concern the military mandating vaccination, the question there was the vaccination without consent of the personnel (they gave the shot without notification).

Response by PO1 Todd B. made Oct 28 at 2021 8:56 PM

PO1 Todd B. — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 20:56:02 -0400

The REASON right now, there IS NO ORDER STANDING OR OTHERWISE to get a vaccination, is because they know damn well it is now ILLEGAL to do so.. After all the forced experiments on service members in the 40s, 50s and 60's along with the anthrax debacle, it was made clear the US Military could not force OR ORDER any member to take something that was experimental or for testing purposes, against their will. PERIOD.

Response by PO3 Jeanne Kerschus made Oct 28 at 2021 9:27 PM

PO3 Jeanne Kerschus — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 21:27:57 -0400

It's experimental. .. against the Nuremberg Code (World Law, 1947) to administer without informed consent.

Response by SSG Ron Bogard made Oct 29 at 2021 9:13 AM

SSG Ron Bogard — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 09:13:38 -0400

Most of us that can still relate to the word "freedom" feel as though we should be able to choose between yes and no, I spent 21 years making sure U.S. citizens could do just that!! And will someone tell me when mandates become a Law??

Response by SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. made Oct 29 at 2021 12:57 PM

SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:57:24 -0400

Given some of the comments I'm glad I'm retired. I'm going to practice my right to choose for myself what does and doesn't go into my body. All the years I was in the military and got the flu vaccine I got the damn flu and was sicker than a dog every year. Now that I'm out and quit getting the flu vaccine I either don't get sick or if I do it's not as bad or as long. I'm not getting the covid vaccine ever. I know too many people that has had their health damaged by it or has died because of it. Some may still die from it. For those that say get the damn shot because they are tired of those unvaccinated being spreaders, I got news for you. Vaccinated people can still get and spread covid. In fact studies have shown vaccinated people have a 300% viral load than those unvaccinated. The vaccinated are considered super spreaders. So you the vaccinated got you jab of poison and can hole up in a closet in whatever dwelling you live in scared of the world. The rest of us that see through the BS are moving on with our lives under the blanket of freedom.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2021 6:00 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 18:00:45 -0400

I would consider it an unlawful order due to the Nuremberg Code on choice for anything human experimental. SEC DEF memo is only for the the FDA approved version of the vaccine. That isn’t expected to be available until 2023. Check the vial and see if it states EUA or FDA approved. If EUA then legally it doesn’t meet the mandate stipulation. It isn’t a medical distinction but a legal one. Formula can be identical but the legality is what is on the vial. The EUA vial isn’t what is mandated, by the memo, only the FDA vial is. I would like to see them add the Nuremberg Code as additional justification for it not being a legal order. The code is actually on the CDC’s website but is being ignored at this time.

Response by SPC Sean Vogt made Oct 29 at 2021 7:15 PM

SPC Sean Vogt — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 19:15:33 -0400

Don't drink the kool-aid. Fuck the fda and cdc. They have only been poisoning humans for profit since its conception. I'm sure the senior officers are all on the bandwagon of their overlords, don't listen to them. They are just as bad as the doctors and scientists that go from big phamra to cdc to fda and back to big pharma. All these senior officers will have kush jobs working in defense contracting. Don't be a sheeple, and do your own research .

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2021 11:24 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Oct 2021 11:24:27 -0400

Yes it does. You can not force someone to get something that isn’t a vaccine and experimental at that. It is unconstitutional

Response by PO2 Dennis Newman made Oct 30 at 2021 6:44 PM

PO2 Dennis Newman — Sat, 30 Oct 2021 18:44:31 -0400

Carefully read "Vaccine A" by Gary Matsumoto. How long before federal bureaucracy agent orange; 4 decades give or take. Two for my anthrax, followed by multiple sclerosis diagnosis; 6 months later give or take couple of weeks. This former EMT says no to the vax ( which isn't actually a true vaccine).

Response by PO3 Mike Hayden made Oct 31 at 2021 1:41 AM

PO3 Mike Hayden — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 01:41:10 -0400

This is scare tactics, is it dangerous, hell what in life isn't. Forcing unproven vaccinations against peoples will is not freedom, coercing them into it by holding their livelihood over them is criminal. This is population control by vaccinations they have done it multiple times throughout history and this is just a bigger stage. Do people die from covid, yes do people die from the vaccine, yes. Is there any guarentee, no. Make your own mind up and take responsibility for your actions. I just bope the law suits get rid of this damn dictator crap

Response by Sgt Jerry Wood made Oct 31 at 2021 11:37 AM

Sgt Jerry Wood — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 11:37:35 -0400

When your working over these "big ideas": anthrax, the process gaining FDA approval, new diseases-experimental drug(s), federal law with regrads to "Presidential Executive Order(s)". Try a simpler approach: (grab a cup of coffee and read a short history on Typhoid Mary).

(Typhoid) Mary Mallon was born in Ireland in 1869 and emigrated to the United States in 1883 or 1884. She was engaged in 1906 as a cook by Charles Henry Warren, a wealthy New York banker, who rented a residence to Oyster Bay on the north coast of Long Island for the summer. From 27 August to 3 September, 6 of the 11 people present in the house were suffering from typhoid fever. At this time, typhoid fever was still fatal in 10% of cases and mainly affected deprived people (Lacking in benefit, poverty stricken, in want of, unable to keep the wolf from the door) from large cities.

The sanitary engineer, committed by the Warren family, George Sober, published the results of his investigation on the 15th of June 1907, in JAMA. (Leading Medical Journal) Having believed initially that freshwater clams could be involved in these infections, he had hastily conducted his interrogation of the sick people and also of Mary who had presented a moderate form of typhoid. Mary continued to host the bacteria, contaminating everything around her, a real threat for the surrounding environment. Although Sober initially feared that the "soft clams" (Clams possessing a soft shell Vs. the more common hard shell clams) were the culprits, this proved to be incorrect as not all of those stricken had eaten them. Finally Sober had solved the mystery and became the first author to describe a “healthy carrier” of Salmonella typhi in the United States. From March 1907, Sober started stalking (to approach stealthily with obsessive attention) Mary Mallon in Manhattan and he revealed that she was transmitting disease and death by her activity. (Straight out of Nathaniel Hawthornes Scarlet Letter) His attempts to obtain samples of Mary’s feces, urine and blood, earned him nothing but being chased by her. (This authority figure, Sober is not being viewed by Mary as strengthening her morale) Sober reconstituted the puzzle by mapping out each separate incident where typhoid had been detected then discovering that previously the cook (Mary) had served in 8 families. Seven of them had experienced cases of typhoid. Twenty-two people presented signs of infection and some died.

(Humbling to discover a disease for the first time while attempting to decrease typhiods gravity by what if any means makes sense in the moment. This is the race to save all lives.)

That year, about 3,000 New Yorkers had been infected by Salmonella typhi, and probably Mary was the main reason for the outbreak. (its a belief based from supposition) Immunization against Salmonella typhi was not developed until 1911, (several years later) and antibiotic treatment was not available until 1948. Thus, a dangerous source like Mary had to be restrained. Mary was then frequently accused of being the source of contact for hundreds of the ill. Sober, after enlisting the support of Dr. Biggs of the N.Y. Department of Health, persuaded Dr. Josephine Baker, who along with the police, was sent to bring Mary Mallon in for testing. Baker and the police were met by an uncooperative Mary, who eluded them for five hours. At the end she was forced to give samples. Mary’s stool was positive for Salmonella typhi and thus she was transferred to North Brother Island to Riverside Hospital, where she was quarantined in a cottage.

In 1909, Mary unsuccessfully sued the health department. During her two-year period of confinement, she had 120/163 stool samples test positive. No one ever attempted to explain to Mary the significance of being a “carrier”, instead they had offered to remove her gallbladder, something she had denied. She was unsuccessfully treated with Hexamethylenamin, laxatives, Urotropin, and brewer’s yeast. In 1910, a new health commissioner vowed to free Mary (Good form is good to see) and assist her with finding suitable employment as a domestic but not as a cook. Mary was released but never intended to abide by the agreement. (Witch of a woman, but its where her passion in life came from) She started working again as a cook, in the cuisines of her unsuspecting employers, (the viral carrier shedds the virus contaminating food & drink) threatening public health once more.

As a cook of Sloane Maternity Hospital in Manhattan, she contaminated, in three months, at least 25 people, doctors, nurses and staff. Two of them died. She had managed to be hired as “Mary Brown” [8]. Since then she was stigmatized as “Typhoid Mary” and she was the butt of jokes, cartoons, and eventually “Typhoid Mary” appeared in medical dictionaries, as a disease carrier. Mary was placed back on North Brother Island where she remained until her death. On Christmas morning, 1932, a man who came to deliver something to her found Mary on the floor of her bungalow, paralyzed. She had had a stroke of apoplexy and never walked again. Thereafter, for six years, she was taken care of in the “Riverside Hospital”. She died in November 1938. Her body was hurried away and buried in a grave bought for the purpose at St. Raymond’s Cemetery in Bronx. A post mortem revealed that she shed Salmonella typhi bacteria from her gallstones raising the issue of what would have happened if she had accepted the proposed operation. Some other researchers insisted that there was no autopsy and that this was another urban legend, whispered by the Health Center of Oyster Bay, in order to calm ethical reactions .
Mary Mallon, the first known case of a healthy carrier in the United States, (Mary's own immune system was very stong where she was unaffected by thypoid, she shed the virus and infected others whom immune system was not as strong died, a "Witch of an immune system") was proven responsible for the contamination of at least one hundred and twenty two people, including five dead.

Much speculation remains regarding the treatment that Mary received at the hands of the Department of Health, City of New York. Instead of working with her, to make her realize she was a risk factor, the state quarantined her twice, making her a laboratory pet. Mary endured test after test and was only thinking of how she could cook again. She had become a victim of the health laws, of the press and above all of the cynical physicians, who had plenty of time to test but never had time to talk with the patient.

Mary’s case is a perfect example of how the Health Care system provokes social attitudes towards disease carriers, often associated with prejudice. This case highlighted the problematic nature of the subject and the need for an enhanced medical and legal-social treatment model aimed at improving the status of disease carriers and limiting their impact on society. Probably the answer to the rhetorical question “was Mary Mallon a symbol of the threat to individual liberty or a necessary sacrifice to public health?” is a single word, “balance”. After all what Mary ever wanted was to be a good plain cook.

The history of Mary Mallon, declared “unclean” like a leper, may give us some moral lessons on how to protect the ill and how we can be protected from illness. Mary had refused the one operation which might have cured her. Mary Mallon is always a reference when mentioning the compliance of the laws concerning public health issues. The state’s pursuance and Mary’s stubbornness gave her an awkward place in the history of Medicine.

Food for thought; when thinking about that question: do i need a vaccine or is the vaccine to protect others...balance, its to mitigate the loss of life for both. Additionally, while also decreasing the costs associated in treating people infected with covid. i.e. treatment, it doesn't come cheap.

Veteran/Sgt. these days, just trying to stay hip.

Response by SSgt David Izquierdo made Oct 31 at 2021 1:05 PM

SSgt David Izquierdo — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 13:05:12 -0400

The Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine received full approval by the FDA on Aug. 23, 2021, so that might not help, in refusing to take the vaccine. In the case you presented the FDA had never specifically approved the vaccine for inhalational anthrax, whereas, the FDA has approved the current vaccines to be used against COVID. So my interpretation after reading that case, I would say it doesn't apply. But that's me.

Response by Cpl Ron Hernandez made Oct 31 at 2021 1:51 PM

Cpl Ron Hernandez — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 13:51:35 -0400

Plandemic of the vaccinated, old and fat.

Response by SP5 John Huskey made Oct 31 at 2021 3:45 PM

SP5 John Huskey — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 15:45:11 -0400

Listen I have had Covid-19 I do not wish to take the Gene therapy! I’m a free person this includes what I choose to place in my body. The government or your opinion means nothing or has not produced any evidence that this so called Gene Therapy work. Hundreds who have had the shots still get sick. You that truly trust your doctor must think less than 50 years ago these same doctors promoted tobacco products before that they were blood letting! Yeah go ahead it’s your body but this ones mine I trust in god to keep me healthy not man.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Oct 31 at 2021 5:55 PM

SSG Byron Hewett — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 17:55:59 -0400

why take the chance? I'd be more worried about touching and scratch the smallpox vaccine site and spreading it like some many guys in my unit did and getting somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.
get the shot I did it didn't kill me it won't kill you just get it and be done with it your better off.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Oct 31 at 2021 6:14 PM

CPO Kurt Baschab — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 18:14:41 -0400

Sadly I have no knowledge to pass on, about this COURT case, I do have some very basic advice, to Give, to the best of my Knowledge, and when I was still active duty, all service members did not have a choice about what Vaccines and shots we received, because we had to be ready to be deployed Worldwide on a Moments Notice. so unless you had some medical reason that you could not receive the shot, you were getting the shot. you have heard the term GI? you do know why they call all service members GI? it is because we are all Government Issued , we gave up a lot of are Rights when we Signed the Dotted Line, this is why we cannot bad mouth elected officials, or the united states President, even America First UN-Elected President, so my advice, be careful, of the battle you pick to fight and the hill you wish to die on, I myself have gotten the Anthrax Vaccination, along with the COVID-19 Vaccination, I do believe in your right to choose, I wish we had more rights, but sadly we gave up a lot of those rights when we VOLUNTARILY SIGNED THE DOTED LINE, No one FORCED US TO JOIN. and we knew when we join that we were giving up a lot of are Individual Freedoms in order to protect America and the American Citizens Freedoms, so just take the VACCINE. and read and study the UCMJ, the Bible, United States Constitution, the Bill of rights, Federalist , Anti-Federalist Papers, and the Declaration of Independence , this will help you understand the OTHA you took, so you can protect and defend the United states Constitution and the Bill of rights, so you Should read and understand this Document ? a Document you took a Otha to protect and defend, you should be able to answer Who? What, Where, When , and Why? each of these Documents were written ? I say this , because so many have taken this Otha and never even read the Declaration Of Independence, the Untied States Constitution, the Bill Of Rights, Federalist Anti-Federalist Papers.

Response by LCpl Jason Ryan made Oct 31 at 2021 9:01 PM

LCpl Jason Ryan — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 21:01:38 -0400

We need to stop calling it a vacation. It neither stops the spread nor prevents contraction of anything. It only mildly reduces the effects when you do catch the vid. (voice of experience) Mandating anyone get the shot is just wrong. Me getting the shot has no bearing on you. You getting the shot bad no bearing on me.

Response by LTC Margaret Stock made Nov 1 at 2021 2:44 PM

LTC Margaret Stock — Mon, 01 Nov 2021 14:44:35 -0400

Here's a law article on point: https://cdn.ymaws.com/http://www.roa.org/resource/resmgr/lawreviews/2021/21075-LR.pdf

21075-LR.pdf

Response by SSG Greg Jetter made Nov 1 at 2021 3:43 PM

SSG Greg Jetter — Mon, 01 Nov 2021 15:43:32 -0400

is this still being discussed 3 months after the OP posted it ? If you'r willing to subject yourself to experimentation so that the "Command's" numbers look good , go right ahead , they are counting on the rank and file being so intimidated that they can get 100% compliance . They will not tell you that literally thousands of "Healthy" young men and women are developing sever side effects from this mostly non effective R/DNA altering "NON Vaccine" , heart attacks , blood clots some within seconds of receiving their jab , others with in the first 30 days are being hospitalized , just take a few moment to research it ......
They need your compliance , as of today November 1st 2021 they are proceeding to inject your children with this shit , You go ahead and protect your military job and take it , odds are you will survive , though how many years and how fucked up your going to be ... hey don't worry the VA and the Military will take care of you all , after all they do such a fine job now with Agent Orange , Anthrax vaccine , depleted uranium exposure ..... yep they will be happy to take care of you , just ask the current crop of veterans that were left to die while in line waiting to see a doc .....

Soon your little babies will be getting injected and since you all ready took the jab , you will be presured into KILLING or MAMING your own Children ......

fuck wake up , you all can't be this stupid as to go to your demise willingly.....

Response by Capt Edward Egan made Nov 1 at 2021 3:48 PM

Capt Edward Egan — Mon, 01 Nov 2021 15:48:44 -0400

I will not submit, much less acquiesce, to the involuntary introduction into my body of a gene altering substance with dubious efficacy and proven immediate and potential long-term deleterious effects.

This illegal order, mandate, call it what you will, would not pass Constitutional scrutiny. Once introduced in one's system it cannot be removed. There's no "ooops" involved.

I will not take the shots.
I will not surrender my guns.
I will not show my papers.
I will not wear a yellow star.
I will not get in the boxcar.
I will not march to the showers.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Nov 1 at 2021 11:08 PM

PO1 Don Uhrig — Mon, 01 Nov 2021 23:08:23 -0400

Hmmm, I don't know. How about asking the Supreme Court?

Response by PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder made Nov 5 at 2021 1:54 PM

PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 13:54:29 -0400

Since when does the military let people decide which vaccinations they get. I was a corpsman and I can’t believe that the military would let people decide whether they want the vaccine or not. Just get the shot. It’s part of being in the military.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Nov 11 at 2021 11:48 PM

PO1 Don Uhrig — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 23:48:17 -0500

No.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2021 12:24 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:24:04 -0500

http://mobile-webview.gmail.com/ [login to see] /http://www.rallypoint.com/users/password/edit.9088?reset_password_token=f33db1f946f7928ac4648a2d7be525bc69684c60eacbc83aedab345d97cccc7d

edit.9088

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2021 5:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:01:18 -0500

Response by PO1 Frank Downs made Nov 23 at 2021 4:12 AM

PO1 Frank Downs — Tue, 23 Nov 2021 04:12:57 -0500

I’m concerned for all active duty member because the upper command lies and then uses the power of the government to beat you down. (Agent Orange took veterans 10 years and still they have to fight for claims, Gulf War Syndrome still hasn’t been identified but it’s believed the Anthrax vaccine had some connection)
What does the COVID-19 vaccine do for you?? It doesn’t stop you from getting the virus, nor does it stop you from passing the virus and if your young it can affect your heart.
If the vaccine was so great then why does the government need to lie about the negative effects (17,000 deaths) or feel it needs to bribe you or threaten you with taking it?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2021 10:12 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Nov 2021 10:12:18 -0500

Just putting this out there. Dated 24 AUG 2021.
https://media.defense.gov/2021/Aug/25/ [login to see] /-1/-1/0/MEMORANDUM-FOR-MANDATORY-CORONAVIRUS-DISEASE-2019-VACCINATION-OF-DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-SERVICE-MEMBERS.PDF

What I know for a fact is that, for the Army, Soldiers who refuse to get vaccinated (unless under one of the three approved waivers, where the waiver has also been approved) will be flagged "Adverse Action" IAW AR 600-8-2, Table 2-1.

MEMORANDUM-FOR-MANDATORY-CORONAVIRUS-DISEASE-2019-VACCINATION-OF-DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-SERVICE-MEMBERS.PDF

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Dec 1 at 2021 7:30 PM

Cpl Craig Howard — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 19:30:41 -0500

When I was in, we were not asked what we wanted to be shot up with. 1st, we were the property of the US Government, by choice. Second, what we received was to keep us safe from what we knew was out there. It worked then and it works now. The only issue is people who may have a medical issue from an inoculation. Other than that, it is what is best for the service, not the individual.

Response by CSM Tim Bebus made Dec 2 at 2021 12:07 PM

CSM Tim Bebus — Thu, 02 Dec 2021 12:07:02 -0500

What a silly statement Sir. I along with many of my friends and family member along with millions of others have had covid. Sick for a few days just like any other illness. This has become so political.

Response by Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna made Dec 4 at 2021 8:25 PM

Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 20:25:41 -0500

In active Duty We sign our LIFE away & Government has Control of OUR LIFE even Medical....
Me being Civilain now, I chose NOT to take any Vaccine because I can.

Response by Col Roger Kemp made Dec 4 at 2021 10:02 PM

Col Roger Kemp — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 22:02:14 -0500

Ignorance is bliss.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Dec 5 at 2021 5:28 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:28:31 -0500

Read paragraph #80 of the decision which states: "...The Court has considered Plaintiff's Motion for a Preliminary Injunction, the Response and Reply thereto, counsel's representations at oral argument, and the relevant statutory and case law. In sum, because the record is devoid of an FDA decision on the investigational status of AVA..." The Anthrax (AVA) vaccine had not been approved by the FDA. You are talking "apples and oranges" since the COVID-19 vaccine has been approved.

Response by LCDR John Letaw made Dec 8 at 2021 3:32 AM

LCDR John Letaw — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 03:32:23 -0500

Just get the d@mn shot already. For heavens sake, my 5-year-old got it & she’s fine. Billions of doses have been given out worldwide. What are we seeing, ICUs full of dying people because of Covid? Or, people dying because of the vaccine? (Hint: It’s not the vaccine.)

Stop looking for reasons to be a snowflake.

Response by SSgt Matthew Snyder made Dec 8 at 2021 7:31 AM

SSgt Matthew Snyder — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 07:31:59 -0500

Jack, mind your own business. That's not an answer to the question, just an ignorant opinion. Go and get castrated. Don't argue, don't try to make your own decisions about your health, don't try to fight it legally, just got get yourself castrated. The lack of any future progeny from you would be a great social and economic benefit to everyone else and the argument should just stop there right? NO..... Your OTHER option is to live free in America and make your own life, health, and family choices without being told by an external source what personal decisions to make. OPs other choice is to do what the hell they want and live with the consequences of their own decisions which, with natural and herd immunity proven to outperform and outlast the vaccine, would probably be little to none.

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made Dec 30 at 2021 9:46 AM

FN Charlie Spivey — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:46:38 -0500

The original response was posted 4 months ago. Since then, Pfizer and I think Moderna has been given full approval for the drugs.

Response by SPC Curtis Cobb made Dec 30 at 2021 11:50 AM

SPC Curtis Cobb — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 11:50:28 -0500

I'm glad I don't serve in today's military. It's full of selfish know-nothings. When I joined the Army we went through a gauntlet of vaccinations, and not a single person complained or suddenly "found" religion. Man-up or get out....and keep your ignorant ass away from my neighborhood.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Dec 31 at 2021 9:45 PM

CPO Kurt Baschab — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 21:45:27 -0500

I am not a Lawyer, nor do I pretend to play one on National TV, nor am I a Sea Lawyer, I Recommend Contacting CG Leagal, or a Military Lawyer That specializes in this field , Anyone who Gives you advice on this matter without knowing exactly what they are Talking about will only Give you bad legal advice , that will only do one of two things, get you discharged from military service, or possible loss of pay, if not both

Response by SPC Daniel Dresen made Jan 14 at 2022 6:35 PM

SPC Daniel Dresen — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:35:18 -0500

If 3 VAERS reports, a swollen purple and black arm, and anaphylaxis couldn't get me out of shot 5 for anthrax... get the damn covid shot! I've gotten 3 so far, and it's probably the least reactive shot I've every gotten. A little pinch in the arm and it was over. My wife felt ill for a few days, similar to a flu shot.

Response by CW5 Michael Tuman made Jan 18 at 2022 10:34 AM

CW5 Michael Tuman — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 10:34:14 -0500

very likely an unlawful order.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jan 18 at 2022 2:42 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 14:42:11 -0500

The Anthrax Vaccination is a tested, vetted and proven Vaccine. Unlike all the COVID Vaccines were before they were deployed. In case you wonder - I got my shpts. Mainly because I grew up in the Polio Generation.

Response by MSgt James Jaglowicz made Mar 22 at 2022 12:51 PM

MSgt James Jaglowicz — Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:51:57 -0400

My brother died earlier this year of the Covid, leaving all of us grieving his loss. Just before he was put on a ventilator, he called his decision to postpone getting his booster shot, the worst regret of his life. I’d like to feel empathy for my fellow man, hoping they will get vaccinated, as no one one knows if they will die from the Covid or not. That said, for you who doubt the worth of Covid vaccines because of politics (you know who you are), I’m okay with you refusing vaccines, knowing that the law of averages will mean fewer of you morons will be around at the hopeful end of the pandemic.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Apr 10 at 2022 12:44 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Sun, 10 Apr 2022 12:44:53 -0400

It absolutely does not make it an "unlawful order"

You are falling into the trap of many wannabe shithouse lawyers in the military -- thinking that someone needs specific justification to give a "lawful order" -- ALL orders are considered lawful unless the order is specifically contrary to law or regulation. An order to commit a crime would be an "unlawful order" but an order to do something you don't like is still a lawful order even if someone higher in the chain of command or some court later changes the order or directs the military not to enforce it.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 20 at 2022 8:30 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 20:30:33 -0400

Hope you are a better ATC than a barracks lawyer.

Response by 1SG Michael Bonnett made May 1 at 2022 2:53 PM

1SG Michael Bonnett — Sun, 01 May 2022 14:53:29 -0400

Yes, it is an unlawful order. Yes, they forcing soldiers out who refuse to take the shots. I hope after the Congress and the White House changes any officer who relayed that order on to his subordinates is either drummed out of the military without a retirement or sent to prison.

For those who use the "ALL orders are considered lawful unless the order is specifically contrary to law or regulation."

Here is a news flash for you.

It is unlawful to force someone to take an experiential vaccine.

So said the Congress after the Anthrax debacle which is why the laws for this are different than for past vaccines. The new laws put in place after the Anthrax abuse does not exclude the military except under very particular conditions which has not occurred despite what the President and the Secretary of Defense have claimed.

The soldier should consult a lawyer and then chose to either join one of the lawsuits working thru the system or get your shots.

Do not listen to any on this forum (including me) who is already safely retired.

Once the Congress changes hand and then the White House, I really hope to see a lot of officers who took the easy way to be forced out without retirement. I would rather see them sent to prison at hard labor for the rest of their lives. I would hope All flag rank officers who decided to go with the flow are charged with as many counts of manslaughter as there are troops who died within 3 days of getting their shots.

Since the military is putting most who refuse the shots out under General discharges, I expect when the Congress changes that there to be no mercy for those officers who decided to take the easy way and save their jobs.

NO retentions., no retirements.

Who wants an unethical officer Corp who ignores their oath to the Constitution?
They took an oath and decided their careers were more important. They are worthless as soldiers, much less leaders.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2022 6:24 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2022 18:24:56 -0400

Unfortunately, you have two options. First, get the vax. Second, leave the service. Pretty simple.

Response by SGT Chris Owens made Jun 20 at 2022 6:07 AM

SGT Chris Owens — Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:07:39 -0400

glad I'm not in anymore
I wouldnt take it....regular flu shots make me sick for weeks
plus..plus, I hear that it uses MRNA...that stuff goes through CRISPR...look it up

it changes DNA...no thanks

Response by SP5 Gerald Santomassimo made Jun 26 at 2022 1:28 PM

SP5 Gerald Santomassimo — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 13:28:14 -0400

People are dying from the damn vax. Don't take it. If they kick you out, so what? You're alive, and that counts for more.

Response by SGT David Sievers made Jun 29 at 2022 4:23 PM

SGT David Sievers — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 16:23:31 -0400

Forcing anyone including military personnel to subject themselves to experimental medical procedure is a violation of section 10 of the Nuremberg code. No rank in the United States military has the authority to supersede that law.

Response by SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. made Jan 24 at 2023 1:41 AM

SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 01:41:21 -0500

Now that the truth is coming to light in many cases by people dying, what does everyone think about the COVID vaccine now? Personally, I'm more glad than ever I didn't get it. Sounds like a horrible way to die. Especially since it is suppose to save lives. Oh and I've had COVID at least twice with a antibody blood test to confirm it and I'm still here to type this. Maybe the government isn't the friend that's going to save us after all.