Does unrated time matter on a separation NCOER? Should I fight my rating of being only qualified, since I will be applying for GS positions?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 06:49:54 -0400

I am in the process of ETS'ing, and am about to sign my final NCOER. I have a few questions:

1) It is an annual (through date is July, ETS is in OCT) does this unrated time matter at all? Does the fact that I wont have a separation specific NCOER matter?

2) I am being rated 2 of 2, and only qualified. My prior (only one to date) NCOER rated me as highly qualified, and in top 11% of former CO's 25 rated NCO's. Making this a notable drop in performance rating. I don't necessarily agree with this, as I've been performing all duties evaluated in prior NCOER (CBRN predominantly) plus several others (DTMS, Land and Ammo, several other additional duties for both BN and HHD in all areas) have met all tasks required in these areas, have gotten green or gold in seven different CIP inspections across all areas, and conducted 21 different CIP inspections in 6 different areas for the BN. I developed and distributed all necessary trackers/memos/sops to the units to bring them from black to green/gold. I don't really see where I have failed, or didn't exceeded standards in these areas.

I understand/agree with not being ranked higher to some degree, (the other NCO has almost 14 yrs in compared to my 5, and is a career Soldier, whereas I am no longer even in the BN as I'm participating in the career skills program through SFL-TAP and am interning at a safety office during my final 180 days, where I've been getting outstanding performance reviews, but nothing that goes on record.) The other NCO is not only experienced, but highly competent, and has performed all the S3 duties before, so I get it.

I don't agree at all regarding the "qualified" VS "Highly Qualified" drop for reasons listed above. Also of concern, I was never counseled, I never had any guidance on what my shortfalls and areas needing development were, or any plans of action to achieve anything.
I know I CAN fight this, and that I have fair arguments on why this might be a bit of an unfair assessment... Question is; SHOULD I?
I plan on applying for GS positions in safety after my ETS, and want to make sure simply signing off on this evaluation won't be to my detriment.
Thanks for hanging in there. Any advise is much appreciated!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 7:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 07:03:01 -0400

While this isn't the RIGHT answer, it's usually how things go -- or atleast from what I've seen -- people getting out usually get the "shit end of the stick." The career soldier you're up against will generally get the better rating because at the end of the day, your rating is meaningless to the Army once you ETS. Once again, this isn't right, but it's how I've seen many senior NCO's justify it.

Best of luck.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Jul 21 at 2021 8:47 AM

CSM William Everroad — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 08:47:31 -0400

It depends on the reason they gave you unrated time. If SFL-TAP results in a performance evaluation (i.e. 1059) you are already being rated for that time, so it won't be on your NCOER.
I won't comment on the rating, because you can never be sure what the rating criteria is. However, if you never received a counseling it is grounds for appeal. Appeals are not fast.
The downside is it may be worth the effort for you going in to a GS position depending on who the hiring manager is and the competition.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 8:55 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 08:55:40 -0400

GS jobs will not care about this evaluation. A "bad" military evaluation still states that you did your job.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 9:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 09:18:36 -0400

You really can't fight your evaluation rating. You were rated as being qualified, your rater doesn't need to counsel you on how you could have done better, you met the standard. Nobody can make your rater change their rating of you. The only thing you could argue is if you have accomplishments that were not included in your accomplishment bullets, you could argue that with your CSM that you are entitled to have those included.

Your unrated time is time you are on permissive TDY for SFLTAP, there is nothing you are doing during that period to be rated for.

Your NCOER only matters to who is reviewing it. You aren't being rated in a promotion board in your civilian job based on your military performance. Your NCOER once you leave is going to be used to show what areas you have experience in and for how long

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 9:38 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 09:38:32 -0400

1. Your unrated time between JUL and OCT will not matter. You need at least 90 days of rated time for an NCOER. If you are taking any transition leave at all, you probably would not have 90 days of rated time between your thru date and ETS.
2. No one will care about your NCOERs, not even in a GS job, unless you had a relief for cause. Unless your hiring manager is a recently retired 1SG, no one will ask to see your NCOERs.

You can talk to your senior rater, because it sounds like there was no senior rater counseling at all. You can ask how they arrived at Qualified.
They might say that you did well for a first year NCO in S3, for the time you were there, but you also had plenty of time away from the office in an internship that should probably be unrated time.
They might even go so far as to admit that their overall assessment of your potential for promotion in the Army (which is what this is) was predicated on the fact that you are getting out and your rated period was filled with SFL-TAP appointments and an internship that took you away from your duties for 6 months, and if you did decide at the last minute to reenlist, that you should spend another 12 months on the job earning a highly or most qualified to compete fairly against your peers for promotion.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 9:24 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 21:24:11 -0400

Don’t waste your time fighting that NCOER, you wont win anyway. The Qualified Rating is just your Senior Rater’s opinion of how you stand amongst your peers he or she has Senior Rated. His decision was most likely based on you Voluntarily Separating from the Army. Qualified Rating is not a bad rating at all, so if your next job decides to look at your NCOERS, I dont see how that will hurt you. Majority of employers will focus on your bullets rather than your overall rating anyway that to see you how you perform.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Jul 21 at 2021 10:02 PM

MSG Gary Eckert — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 22:02:14 -0400

It won’t have any effect on your GS applications. Your DD Form 214 will be required to determine if you qualify for certain veteran preference hiring programs such a VRA. The DD Form 214 will also be used to determine various service dates. While the selecting official will know whether you are receiving preference they will not receive the actual DD Form 214. When I get a referral list through USA Staffing, it includes resumes and cover letters. CPAC will also need your VA determination letter since there are programs and point preferences given to certain disability ratings.

Response by SFC Jeremy Boyd made Jul 22 at 2021 9:17 PM

SFC Jeremy Boyd — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:17:44 -0400

I've applied for a few different GS positions through USA Jobs since retiring, mostly to get comfortable with the process, and I have never once been asked to provide any of my NCOERs during the application or interview processes. Your DD214 will provide them with applicable information concerning your military experiences and qualifications. Other common documents they may request will be your resume (USA Jobs has a built in resume builder that I highly recommend), a completed SF15 (Application for 10-Point Veteran Preference), VA Disability letters showing your total combined rating (which is of great value if you have a 30% combined rating or above and are using that as an additional basis for consideration), and any official college transcripts you may have. Most of the GS positions you can apply for online will have a long form questionnaire asking what level of experience and proficiency you have with the specific scenarios, systems, equipment, and tasks you will encounter in the job you're seeking, and they'll weigh your answers against your education level and TIG/TIS to determine if you qualify for the job and what GS grade you can enter at.