Does Veterans' Preference really work for us?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 15:20:45 -0400

What does Veterans' Preference really do for us? I have been applying for jobs since graduating college (for the last 2 years) and I just can't get one. I have 2 degrees and almost 20 years in the military. I always elect to use Veterans' Preference on all of my job applications. So far, it looks as if employers see that and then throw the app away. Everyone else I know from my graduating class were able to get a job fairly quickly. They were not veterans. Should I just stop claiming to be a veteran?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 3:27 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 15:27:44 -0400

Depends on where you are applying to. If your classmates are getting hired, have you asked what their resume looks like? Maybe it's more administrative than Veteran preference. Not sure how many civilian employers have veterans preference, but for federal positions it is point based and depending on your status determines how many additional points you get. Even with veteran points, people without job experience or skills required of the position will not get considered.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 5:02 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:02:05 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I would not stop claiming to be a veteran. Your resume needs to be excellent to be considered. If you go in for an interview, spend the needed time to know the company and their products and practice answers to questions that they may ask. Dress for the position that you are interviewing for. Be the best candidate for the position.

In 1972 I went to work as an operator at a chemical plant. 100 applicants were interviewed for two positions. I had to take a multitude of tests and went through three interviews. I knew the company and was ready for all questions. One of the interviewers tried to put me on the spot by asking if I was stable from my experiences in Vietnam. I paused before answering and told him things that seemed to satisfy him. I obtained the job but think that my results on the mechanical aptitude test, other tests, and interviews were what landed the job more that my being a veteran.

Five and a half years later I had my degree and went to work on the Space Shuttle Program. Again, the interview process was rigorous. My resume was excellent, I was well prepared and did well on the interviews. This was the last career that I had as I retired when the program ended. I think my veteran status had little to do with being hired.

Good luck.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 16 at 2020 6:47 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:47:22 -0400

Sometimes organizations already know who they want to hire and its an insider.

Response by CSM Ricky Forrest made Jun 16 at 2020 6:57 PM

CSM Ricky Forrest — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:57:32 -0400

You must fight for your rights. More often it seems to be meaningless. But those who fight for Preference in Federally funded jobs, review the rules, write formal complaints to proper parties, file appeals and exercise prudence, sometimes are rewarded. There are rules employers must follow if they are tied to federal funding. Although many have found the rules process can be a clear failureand bypassed wrongfully, it does not make it right. We all have to bear some burden to correct it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 3:54 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 03:54:55 -0400

If you're talking about USAJobs there are tricks to it.

If there is a survey about your skills you have to put you are an expert at everything or you won't even get through the computer.

If your resume doesn't have the relevant experience for that (and all other positions you are applying for) explicitly listed in your most recent resume HR may not understand it and may not pass you off for the interview list.

Likely there may be someone in mind for that position and unless you are significantly better suited than them it will be tough for you to get selected.

I applied for hundreds of jobs on USAJobs when I got off active duty and I ended up with a hand full of interviews and an offer...that I turned down. The job I ended up taking was based on networking within the organization and finding the right fit. That team hired me on as a Contractor to keep me from taking the government job offer for another organization and I was direct hired into the organization within 6 months.

Networking is worth a thousand cold applications.

Response by Col John Madison made Jun 17 at 2020 3:52 PM

Col John Madison — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 15:52:57 -0400

There are Fed issues, and their are State issues that vary across the spectrum. In the ideal world it would at least get you in the door and you can ply your experience. It should give you a leg up, and in some fields it should definitely provide you a competitiveness...points...what have you. But, we all know that not every HR pogue is understanding, cares about Vet's, is informed as they should be, or doesn't have someone on the inside track that intend to hire...irrespective of the rest of the applicants. There is much that is "hidden" within any hiring process, and unless you can prove otherwise by a paper-trail, or someone in the know, it is tough to make a case.

Response by SSgt David Izquierdo made Jun 17 at 2020 11:01 PM

SSgt David Izquierdo — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:01:52 -0400

It doesn't mean much out of government service. The private sector doesn't have to put much emphasis on it like the federal government or some state and local agencies. At the end of the day for many jobs it's usually about hands-on experience, and not so much what you learned in college or veterans preference.

Response by PO3 Alex Bravo made Jun 18 at 2020 12:05 AM

PO3 Alex Bravo — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 00:05:19 -0400

NOTHING! Especially if you have a degree in which most veterans do not incur into. For example, not many veterans become scientist or engineers after their tenure in the military. So, with that being said, the people making the decision to hire you as a chemist, physicist or even as an engineer will not look much into your veterans preference. You are very likely to get responses such as not qualified or not that you do not meet the minimum qualifications or you lack experience. You will get these type of responses even if you have private sector experience for a similar position in the private sector. Now, if you apply for more of desk job type, you are likely to be considered for such position. The human resources working for federal agencies do not like to consider veterans for highly technical jobs, unless you have been an officer with at least a mid rank. You can try not claiming veterans preference but then how do you explain an almost 20 year gap in your working history? That is more problematic. Honestly, the only way I have found to get some attention (and this is not good), is to place formal complains that they do not want to hire you because you are a veteran. To most civilian employers, veteran=problem person/untrainable. It gets on their nerves to tell them the truth, which is likely that they do not want veterans in their organization.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 21 at 2020 8:06 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 21 Jun 2020 20:06:10 -0400

I"d take a look at the internship and professional development career ladders out there. If you have a business related type degree, an example would be in the 1102 series. They bring you in at GS-7 and over a period of years, work and school you up to take on more difficult duties. That was our preferred way to grow great Contract Specialists. We could use noncompetitive promotion (ladder) up to GS-12. Other series have similar programs at different agencies. I do recall Commerce used a lot of them but I might be dated at this point. The "points" as a number applies to CS entrance exams for which are only used for a few series. As such, a candidate's resume would be graded highly qualified, qualified, or not qualified at the HR shop. The "Cert" (Certificate of Selection) would list the highly and the qualifieds in a groups with veterans being designated 5/10 after their name. The vet 10s would be higher on the list than the 5s. There are some additional rules in the process, but we'd pick from amongst the highly qualified, typically after an interview. Depending on the hiring plan, the resume/interview weights range from 40/60 to 60/40. There is a "Rule of 3" that essentially said you don't bypass 3 Vets to get to a non Vet. In our SYSCOM, the tendency was to hire MILs into middle jobs or first line supervisor, much to the angst of the non prior service hard worker types that saw their futures limited. Hiring vets is a good thing. Hiring too many vets is a bad thing. Probably the greatest hindrance I've seen to Vets getting on board is poor communication skill, especially writing. There's a lot of urban myth out there, some on this thread. For the most part, it's fairly straightforward. Be prepared to move as there typically isn't move money for most entry positions. Also the HR shops are not the swiftest in correlating the resume to what the people who really know the work need. Half the MIL resumes I saw had something like "Maintained ANSPY-8-C MKII". Nowhere in the announcement were we asking for that. Got a non hiring grievance later with the guy saying in plain english what he could do. Why didn't you put that in your resume? HR types are not mind readers. People also confuse entry and merit promotion. The later is for existing employees in a specific series typically. Vet preference does not exist to merit actions. Finally, check out the various Vet hiring programs through your nearest Vet employment office. There are 24 of them spread around. They'd be vastly more current than I am on this stuff.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 31 at 2022 6:59 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:59:49 -0500

Sometimes they already know who they will hire. I could illuminate what my wife saw of the VA hiring process, but it will make everyone mad.