Does your civillian employer require to work around drill schedule when in the National Guard?

SPC Chelsea Fernandez — Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:31:37 -0400

I recently got terminated from my job because my supervisor refuses to work around my drill schedule. I work at a Food Processing Plant and about this time we work weekends do we can get the food shipped to the store. When I told her that I was drill every month or going to be out for 3 days beginning in November, February (2015), and in June ( for annual training) plus I have appointment and visit a counselor every month as well and trying to go to school at the same time. I can tell that it wasn't sitting well with her and her supervisor. I also informed her that when I'm on orders it takes presence over everything and need to get to my designated place. My question is are there jobs out there that works around this whole ordeal going on? The reason I went to that particular food plant because the owner has a culinary class at Nichollas State so it wont be hard when I convert over to his school.
I'm trying to get in contact with the owner of the plant but he is never in his office. His secretary claimed that she emailed him the situation and I don't know if he is going to call me or what regarding the matter but I'm going to keep calling until he hear me out.

Response by SFC Dave Joslin made Nov 18 at 2014 7:46 PM

SFC Dave Joslin — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:46:58 -0500

You should contact your local JAG office (nearest one) and ask to be put in touch with the hearest Local Support for Guard and Reserve liason. You are supposed to be protected through the Soldiers and Sailors Protection and Relief Act. Also, at a minimum, while waiting on that your NG CoC should be assisting you. Best of Luck!

Response by 1SG Brett Austin made Nov 20 at 2014 1:24 AM

1SG Brett Austin — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:24:55 -0500

This may help you! Don't give up!

http://projects.militarytimes.com/guard-reserve-handbook/rights-responsibilities/employment-rights/

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Nov 24 at 2014 12:52 AM

SSG Maurice P. — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 00:52:02 -0500

LOOK INTO THE STATE CORRECTIONAL FIELD ..............YOU WILL NEVER BE HASSELED AS LONG AS YOU PRESENT ORDERS YOU CAN GO UP TO 5 YEARS AND THEY WILL KEEP YOUR JOB I GOT TO RETIRE FROM THE ARMY ACTIVE DUTY BECAUSE THE STATE OF LOUISIANA HELD MY PRISON JOB WHILE I WAS ON THE SANCTUARY PROGRAM......................

Response by SGT Javier Silva made Nov 24 at 2014 1:43 AM

SGT Javier Silva — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 01:43:59 -0500

SPC Chelsea Fernandez - First, an employer firing you because of your military status is against the law. Look at http://www.dol.gov/compliance/laws/comp-userra.htm.

Second, make a complaint with the Department of Labor for the violation of USERRA by your employer. The DOL takes these violations very seriously. I would also bet that the employer would then make an actual attempt to discuss the situation with you.

Third, I would look at http://www.usajobs.gov for federal opportunities. There are also plenty of job boards within your state that will list available position within the state for state agencies.

Fourth, most importantly, have a talk with JAG for any further options to this situation.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2014 2:14 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:14:08 -0500

There is a Soldier Act that prohibits an employer from firing you. If you bring it up, you can probably get your job back, but why would you if they already fired you.

Response by SPC Richard White made Nov 24 at 2014 4:01 AM

SPC Richard White — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 04:01:22 -0500

It is against the law they can't fire you and seeing as they already have then you can get your job back and or possible take to court.refer to other answers

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Nov 24 at 2014 6:10 AM

SFC Vernon McNabb — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:10:22 -0500

Alabama is a an "at-will" state, but even they can't fire Soldiers if they take a leave of absence for military operations. Employers have to hold the Soldier's job for at least 5 years. The first link below is specifically LA employment law overview. LA is an "at-will" state. The second link goes into detail about "at-will".

http://research.lawyers.com/louisiana/employment-law-in-louisiana.html

http://labor-employment-law.lawyers.com/human-resources-law/at-will-employment.html

Louisiana Employment Law

Employment Law in Louisiana

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2014 9:25 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:25:53 -0500

SPC Chelsea Fernandez , the responses in this discussion are on point. Talk to your employer about USERRA, but also JAG or a civilian lawyer.

Any updates?

Response by SSG Everett Wilson made Nov 24 at 2014 2:48 PM

SSG Everett Wilson — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:48:21 -0500

Something happened to me. I was deployed five times (Airport; Air Force, OIF {x2} and Hurricane Support), as my manager of a national box store told me I took to many vacations. in the 9 years that I worked with the company I took 3 vacations, 1 personal and 2 for drill. I was also told that I was asking for to many weekends off. Since I was an instructor, my unit was located in the middle of the state. Suddenly my manager wanted me to come with orders for drill weekends, since my drill letter wasn't good enough. Then I was told that the unit in town was not drilling during my unit's drill. There was no way the my annual training could be in February since the local unit did theirs in June. After my 2nd tour to Iraq, I was told that my DD214 was not the proper form from the Army. Upon my return I was told that I would be coming back as a new hire. Soon the harassment started, everyone told me that it was a shame that I didn't come home in a box, it would have made things more simple. Prior to my termination, I was told by the manager that he wished that he had more employees like me, always on time, called in if I was going to be a minute late, never called in sick. When I was let go, I was told that it was either the National Guard or work for him. The final straw for him was my unit was slated to teach more Supply Courses in the winter months. I called corporate headquarters I was told that it was a local issue.

Response by SSG Everett Wilson made Dec 1 at 2014 4:57 AM

SSG Everett Wilson — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 04:57:45 -0500

I was hired by a National Retail Store, which was opening their first store in town. I made it clear that I was a member of the National Guard. When the management team arrived I provided them with a copy of my Drill Letter, showing drill and annual training (AT) dates. In looking at it, the manager said there would be no problem in working around the guard.
Prior to 9/11 I was informed that I was being promoted and reassigned to a guard unit on the other side of the state. The manager was made aware of the change of units. Shortly after 9/11, President Bush ordered Guards-men into the Airports and Seaports. I was called up to report for training and deployment. After the initial training was completed, some soldiers were sent home as others deployed to the Airports. A month later I was notified to report for duty. I informed the manager and he was informed by the state that orders would be sent to him once they were published. Immediately the manager filled out a Military Leave of Absence (MLA) needed for my deployment.
Following the guidelines of the Employment Support of the Guard and Reserve (ESGR), I wrote to my employer to keep him abreast of what was going on.
After my return I noticed that my hours had been cut back and took a while for them to back to where they were when I left. Soon there were several advancement opportunities that had opened up. I applied for the advancement opportunities, only to be informed that they required individuals being able to work without the fear of being deployed at any time.
It wasn’t long before the Army National Guard was being mobilized to go into the Air Force Bases across the nation, with orders in hand, a MLA was filled out and I was off.
Halfway through this deployment it was announced that the main Brigade of the State Army Guard was notified for deployment for Iraq. Shortly after the main body of troops of the brigade had departed, I was notified that I would be joining the brigade at their mob-site. I had a short amount of time to clear base and I called the store to extend my MLA, only to be told that there was a new manager.
As I explained the situation, and the need of the extension, he became irritated when I told him that I had to
report on the other side of the state in less than 24-hours. I was informed that I could be terminated for being gone
on Military Duty for so long, if I didn’t come in to talk to him. I thought I could be deployed up to 5-years before
my job was jeopardy; he informed me not in our state, it was 1-year.
Once I had some down time I wrote to the Corporate Headquarters and was informed that my employment
was safe for 5-years.
Upon my return, I was informed to never ever to converse about store operations outside of the store.
Shortly after Katrina hit New Orleans, while at work, I was told that it was a matter of importance that I
call my temporary Guard Unit in the middle of the state. I notified that manager that I had to step out and make a
phone. He allowed me to make the call on his personal phone and discovered we were being alerted to support with
Katrina. I told the manager of the situation, he got on the phone and talked to the commander. At that time the
manager was informed that orders were being published and he would be sent a copy right away. There was no
problem.
While in New Orleans, I would get phone call if I could show for work. The manager got flus-
tered since I was still in New Orleans, and was wondering if I ever was going to inform him of my duty in the south.
I knew that he was aware of my presence in New Orleans; I had personally faxed my orders to him.
Upon my return from New Orleans, I informed the manager that I was being transferred to my original unit
and my drill dates and annual training would be changing. Once I had that information I would provide it to him.
Suddenly there was an issue for having certain weekends off, for military training. When drill weekends could
come up and I would remind him, he would screech why I didn’t remind him beforehand. I resorted to having him
sign for copies and a Memorandum For Record (MFR) that he was in receipt of a drill letter and notice of drill dates.
Again, there were several advancement opportunities that had opened up. I applied for the advancement opportunities, only to be informed that they required individuals being able to work without the fear of being de-ployed at any time, besides the company wanted these advancements to go to housewives, since they make up the majority of employees.
There was an incident at one of the Armories which required me to head to the center of the state, without delay. Since time off was not requested 2-weeks in advance, the manager was not going to allow time off. I went to work and informed the manager that he may be getting a call from my chain of command. I was informed that he had received several, and whatever I did in the guard had to be important. Upon my return, I nominated my manager for a Patriot Award with ESGR, hoping this would give him a better light of military training.
After 7-years with the company, I took my very first vacation, and the first one since leaving active duty in 1989. Prior to going on vacation, I applied for a Customer Service position. While I was gone, the interim manager advanced me to the position, as I was the only one who applied.
Shortly after returning from my vacation, the State Brigade was preparing for its second deployment to Iraq and I had been transferred to the unit that I deployed with earlier. The MLA was filled out and submitted.
Upon my return, I stopped by the store to let the manager aware that I was back and eligible to return to work. As I provided the assistant manager a copy of my DD 214, and was told it was the wrong form.
When I returned to work, I was told that there were too many Customer Service Specialist (CSS), four-all females. Two were advanced prior to my return. On my first day of work, I received no training or assistance in the performance of my duties, and regardless of my original hiring in 2001.
It was 3-weeks before I meet the new manager. I explained that I was basically getting off the plane from Southwest Asia, explained some of the problems with the last manager prior to my deployment. It was explained to me that it was company policy that all returning veterans would come back as new hires. He expressed the point that he wished that he had inherited a brand new store, half the people hired wouldn’t have been, and how he hated dealing with the military.
I illuminated on the fact that I was in need of a residence, currently residing in an interim home, being my top priority. Explained my drill status, how I would be transferred from the unit I was in to my original. Just as soon as I had drill letters, he would be given that information.
During our meeting, he received a phone call and told the individual that he really couldn’t talk about a couple of situations, since one of the problems was in the office.
Soon I was being told by fellow associates that it was too bad that I did not come home in a box, since it would have made things simpler. In talking to the manager, I was told since he didn’t hear it, it didn’t happen.
While at the De-mobilization site, I resubmitted a claim to the VA for injuries during my recent deployment to Iraq and I would be getting mandatory medical appointments. The manager was made aware and shown the letters to the appointments, which fell in the early part of December.
Soon I was being scheduled for split days off, and working 9-10 days straight. Since I was the “new hire” I
was required to fill in for the others. two of the CSS’ had to have weekends off; another CSS was having a death in
her family every weekend. One CSS who had to have the weekends off had a hard time working her shifts and
couldn’t come into work. During peak hours the manager had little or no support on the floor. When I would state
that I had a drill weekend coming up or a weekend off¸ I was informed that I was requesting too many weekends off
and he could not guarantee my Drill weekends off, as I was placing him in a difficult situation by having to attend
drill.
After attending my November drill, I was told that I did not have to drive cross the state to drill, since there were a couple of National Guard Units in and around our community. I tried to explain that my unit had a different mission as those units.
When I went to my VA Medical appointments, I was informed that the VA was requesting some additional testing on some findings on my earlier medical examinations. The additional appointments came down close to Christmas. The manager thought my appointments were just ploy for me to get additional days off, in his opinion the letters for appointments were fake. He was facing an unpleasant situation with long lines in the store prior to Christmas and being short associates. I was told that it was policy not to give anyone time off between Thanksgiv-ing and New Year’s. Yet the other CSS’s were granted time off when they requested. The manager said he was well aware that the VA hospital was closing its doors during the Christmas season and no one was being seen by any doctors at the VA, and it was Corporate policy to show proof that I was going to a VA appointment, and had to state why I had to have additional testing, yet VA letters were not proof enough. After calling I was permitted to go, only after I took vacation time off.
As soldiers started to return to their parent units, I gave the manager a copy of my drill letter for my new unit, the manager said it was dumb for me to give him a drill schedule for one unit and a month later give him a different schedule. I told him I was keeping him informed and the state was trying to deal with the recent deployment.
By January all the soldiers were returned to their units, I gave the manager my drill schedule for my unit, it did not show any dates for Annual Training (AT), once I had that I would give it to him, since my unit was a Train-ing Unit AT’s would be different according to class requirements, as I went from a Supply Sergeant to a Supply Ins tutor. There were a couple of Training sessions that I needed to attend: Army Basic Instructors Course (ABIC) and Small Group Instructors Training (SGIT). I had written down the dates of the course and was waiting for the unit to enroll me.
The manager refused to accept the Drill Schedule since it was not on “official military stationary” and it was not signed by anyone in authority of my unit. I provided him with the Unit Readiness NCO in case he had any questions of the schedule.
Once I obtained the required copy of drill dates, on “official military stationary” and signed. It was not sufficient proof of required guard meetings; he would only accept “official orders” requiring my presence of Nation-al Guard duties.
Returning from a drill weekend, I was informed that I did not have to travel to the middle of the state to drill, since the local guard units were good enough; my unit drills did not match the local units drill dates, besides there was no National Guard (Schoolhouse) Training Unit in the entire state. There had to be other reasons for me to go to the center of the state for drill. I was informed that it was now Corporate policy that individuals to have orders before attending any type of Military Training, Duties, to show proof that individuals were actually attending military training and duties, per instructions from ESGR and Uniformed Services Employment, Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA), Federal Law and Regulations, and State Law.
Following this when I went to the following drill, I explained the situation with my employer, and the Head Instructor would look into it, again. Everyone had to determine when they would perform their AT, I was asked to shadow a course by the Branch Manager, in a Reclassification Course. I called the manager to inform him what was going on and was told that there was no problem with my AT in April. I asked if he wanted to verify it with the Branch Manager, and the issue of orders, I was told no.
After returning from AT, I was asked how I enjoyed my vacation, since the National Guard does not per-form their AT’s in April and are always held in the summer. I had to sign a vacation slip for attending drill. Sud-denly it was corporate policy that required military orders had to be not given 3-4 weeks prior to drill and neither drill letters nor drill schedules would be accepted. A neither Drill Schedule nor Military ID was proof enough of me being a member of the State National Guard. When I went to give the manager a copy of my AT orders, he didn’t want them.
One of the CSS’ called in just after closing on a Sunday, stating that she was informed by the State that she had to be in Court in the morning, as she was scheduled to open, that task fell upon me, since I just got back for vacation (?)
The following drill, I brought all this up to the acting Branch Manager and Senior Instructor, the company was demanding that I either come up with monthly drill orders or miss drill, per corporate headquarters. During this drill we were informed by the National Guard Bureau that we could be teaching up to eight more courses for the following fiscal year.
ESGR puts out that keeping you employee informed would avoid any problems and if deployed keep in touch with employer. I mentioned this information to the manager what we were told in case it did come through and he not being blindsided. With the additional courses, I had no idea as an M-day (Traditional) soldier how it would affect me. I was informed that as a manager he needed someone could depend upon; it was either working for him or the National Guard, I couldn’t do both.
During my annual review, the manager wrote down that I was a model employee, willing to come in and assist when needed, if I thought I was going to be late I would call in, my tills were always correct down to the last penny, the front end of the store ran unproblematic and how he wished he had more staff members like myself. There were times when he would ask me how he could run the store more proficient, by my experience.
After getting a day off after a 10-day stretch, and having a lot to do, finding a residence was one, a fellow CSS want to take a day off, after being off for 5-days, shortly after she got to work, she started calling me every 15-minutes. Finally she left a message stating that if I did not call or came into work, I could be and would be termi-nated per the manager’s instructions. In talking to him, he said guess this one way to get you to call in, like coming home in a box.
When I went to the ABIC course, I didn’t have orders, the Unit Training NCO, typed up a MFR for my manager, however he omitted one day, the manager claimed that I was requesting too many days off. Prior to at-tending SGIT, I reminded the manager that course would be conducted the following weekend after my drill. Since I did not yet have orders for the course, I had to submit for another vacation.
Since starting to work the manager told me that I took to many vacations (Operation Enduring Freedom {Airport Security} Operation Armored Falcon {Air Force Security} Operation Iraqi Freedom {2 tours}, Operation Cajun Raven {Katrina Support} and ones for drill/training and a personal vacation). If I had any loyalty to the company I would have stayed home and not taken so many vacations. Whenever a fellow CSS wanted time off or did not show up, I was the one who usually covered their shift. So I have no loyalties.
Since the remark of me coming home in a box wasn’t working, a rumor started going around that I was a plant brought in to cause problems.
A few days before being terminated, I was told that the Marine Reserves required orders to attend drill, other states required orders to attend drill. Without orders the manager was not obligated to allow me time off with-out orders and he had the right to terminate my employment because of military service. My unit called to inform the manager of the laws of ESGR and USERRA. A call was made to the HR. office, about the policy, at which time we were informed there was no such policy, unless, it was a Regional policy or Store policy. A call was made to the Regional HR., a voice message was left and no call back was received.
Flowing that drill, I was terminated and I learned quickly there was nothing that ESGR, USERRA, the Guard or the State could do.
Looking at counseling statements, it was clear that my name was forged. On three forms whoever signed them misspelt my name.
When I went to pick up my final pay check, the closing manager leaned over and told me how sorry she was, but they just had to many CSS’ and being the newest hire I had to be let go. Nine years with the company, having sonority over the others, I’m just a new hire. I thought it was funny since they advanced three others to the position of CSS, and I was the only male CSS.
Following my dismissal I would get phone calls from the company, “Ha-ha, it’s party time, now that your sorry f*@!+^# a%$ is gone,” “told you it would be easy if you came home in a box,” “Go back and kill more babies and little kids.” Then I found out the manager and my brother had worked for another corporation and they had a few clashes, as they both were managers in different departments.
My fellow co-workers were right when they articulated to me to watch my back, since nothing would be done. ESGR was apologetic when I filed my compliant but it was lost because their computer crashed and since I was terminated there was nothing they could do. The Department of Justice and Labor said that USERRA rights were not encroach upon¸ since my state anyone can be fired for any reason. It would have been nice someone looked into the situation.

Response by SPC Chelsea Fernandez made Dec 5 at 2014 7:47 PM

SPC Chelsea Fernandez — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:47:10 -0500

I did contacted ESGR about the situation and was unable to help me. I'm still waiting on a response from the Department of Labor.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 7:53 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:53:43 -0500

Not only are there jobs that work around it, federal law says that every employer in the country is required to work around it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 9:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:11:53 -0400

I've just been very up front with my careers/ jobs. The two I've have while in the guard have been very understanding. Seems like as long as you can give notice for when you will be away and try to work with them the best you can the easier it is. But orders don't lie and being fired because of you military career is not legal.

Response by 1SG Thomas Griffiths made Apr 19 at 2017 8:51 AM

1SG Thomas Griffiths — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 08:51:10 -0400

That is illegal in Ohio you should check with your readiness NCO for info on how to report the business. They can be finded and lose benefits and grants if they did it strictly because your Guard status

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2017 7:11 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 07:11:13 -0400

You are covered under The Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act of 1994 (AKA, USERRA). Here's a link to the Department of Labor https://www.dol.gov/vets/programs/userra/userra_fs.htm

U.S. Department of Labor -- Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS) -- Fact Sheet 3

The Department of Labor, through the Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS), provides assistance to all persons having claims under USERRA.

Response by SFC Lupita Lopes made Dec 18 at 2017 12:33 PM

SFC Lupita Lopes — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 12:33:24 -0500

Contact your JAG office, they will be able to assist you with your company, and federal law requires them to work around your schedule. Evidentially your supervisors are ignorant of the law. They may be required to re-instate you, but then terminate you for some other reason.

Response by SFC Lupita Lopes made Dec 18 at 2017 4:25 PM

SFC Lupita Lopes — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:25:56 -0500

These companies need to read the federal statute regarding the Guard/Reserve. Seems they are worse on the Guard members. They can be taken to task by the feds if they don’t adhere to the law. A local issue can end up in corporates lap if they are not careful. They need to crack down on their local companies. Your DD214 is a legal document. Who ever told you that is just plain STUPID.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made Dec 18 at 2017 5:22 PM

SGT Patrick Reno — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:22:28 -0500

Thats Crap, take them to court. We have several NG soldiers and we work around their drill, school and summer deployment. What your employer did was wrong, make them pay for it.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 18 at 2017 7:21 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 19:21:55 -0500

Contact your state Board of Labor

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made May 29 at 2019 9:49 PM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Wed, 29 May 2019 21:49:33 -0400

Google and Contact National Committee for the Employer Support if the Guard and Reserve... ESGR.Com

Phone:
For a workplace issue, conflict or question call the Customer Service Center to speak with a representative at [login to see] , Option 1, or email [login to see] .

ESGR’s Customer Service Center is available to answer USERRA questions (except Federal holidays) or to refer cases to a trained Ombudsman.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Oct 22 at 2019 11:31 AM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:31:37 -0400

Seek help from your Strength Mgmt/Retention Office or the National Committee for Employer Support via google.

Response by CPL Antiwan Towns made Oct 22 at 2019 7:47 PM

CPL Antiwan Towns — Tue, 22 Oct 2019 19:47:02 -0400

Keep going battle, I am in ohio and our service member are respected. To answer your question. No that is breaking the law, there are consequences for breaking the law. No one is excluded

Response by SFC Joanna Rydzewski made Dec 5 at 2019 1:21 AM

SFC Joanna Rydzewski — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 01:21:34 -0500

Go to NGB website. A company can not discriminate against you being in guard. Check a program called: employer support of guard. It's a law you can't be fired for being in the guard. Jag from National Guard state Hqs should be contacted right away.