Drill Attendance while on Title 10 ADOS, do I still have to Drill?

2015-06-04T14:45:30-04:00

I am currently in the PA National Guard and on ADOS orders currently. In order for my home unit to let me go on orders they required that I still attend all drills. My unit that I am attached with now is struggling with the National Guard unit to have them release me. Is this legal for the National Guard unit to require me to attend drills even though I am on ADOS and attached to another unit? My job is a 24/7 at war status and I am able to be called in during nights/weekend. I am not paid TDY or reimbursed for my mileage (it is a 340 mile round trip) and I also have to pay for my own hotel. I was unaware that my home unit was unable to “make” me come to drill until I started my orders here. I am in the process of trying to interstate transfer, I am willing to drill it is just the fact of having to drive so far. I also have to get a pass in order to attend these drills which I have heard back will be denied become of my 24/7 presence. Although, the NG still is requiring me to attend drill..

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-06-04T15:00:36-04:00

This is something that your state has to clarify. When I was on Title 32 ADOS I was still required to attend drills. I had to plan my ADOS job around that. But I am curious as to what your Title 10 ADOS is? I have see postings for Title 10 ADOS as places like Benning for infantry. For those you don't have to drill at you unit due to your federal obligation. This is something you should really seek guidance on your command or other soldiers that are already there. The down said is that your drilling unit can affect your orders.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-06-04T15:20:52-04:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member I cant speak on the Title 10 aspect of it since I am Title 32 ADOS as a PTAE, but there is an understanding that unless my parent unit and the unit I am working for had different drill dates that my ADOS position takes precedence. I have only been able to drill once with my parent unit this year and there hasn't been any issues to date. I can only hope that your command can cross talk and get it sorted out for you. If they cant make sure you take the advise of CPL Doug Hill and contact your AG/IG for assistance. Good luck to you in sorting this issue out!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 3:38 PM

2015-06-04T15:38:36-04:00

http://www.ut.ngb.army.mil/hro/ADOS%20Page/PPOM_12-043_%28HRH%29_Guidance_for_Army_National_Guard_Members_Performing_ADOS-RC_Duty_under_the_Authority_of_USC_Title_10_Section_12301_%28d%29.pdf

This clarifies it. A bit.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-06-04T15:40:02-04:00

Good advice here in regards to contacting your IG. I would also do everything in my power to push that interstate transfer through as soon as possible. I have had them done in less than 2 weeks before. When the IST is complete you will have 90 days before you are required to start attending drill at your new unit. This should give you enough time to figure out if/when you still need to attend drill at all while on Title 10.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 4:23 PM

2015-06-04T16:23:03-04:00

Did you volunteer for the T10 tour? If yes. Part of allowing you to go onT10 orders may have been that caveat. You are still on your units books for accountability. Also for all your paperwork ie: EPPS packet, DD93/SGLI updates etc.

I have helped numerous Soldiers put their T10 packets together(had 1 Soldier on T10 orders for 5 years). All of them were still required to attend drill with their unit. Training still needs to get done etc.

How are you trying to do a IST while on orders? Again that doesn't sound right.

Bottom line on this. The T10 orders you are on are temporary orders. They eventually will end. Your Commander has the approval/disapproval of you being on these orders.

Response by SFC(P) Jonathan P. made Jun 4 at 2015 5:17 PM

2015-06-04T17:17:27-04:00

I am also on Ados orders and still have to drill with my unit, your best bet is to transfer units !!

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 7:09 PM

2015-06-04T19:09:20-04:00

they can't make you go to drill but that had to approve you going on ADSW, they can also cancel your ADSW orders. If your not doing your job at drill someone else is. Not being there is a hardship on the unit, I would have an open conversation with your Commander.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 4:20 PM

2015-06-05T16:20:45-04:00

I know this is a pretty contentious topic in general. I can't remember if I saw it or if I just think I saw it, but I thought that there was some stipulation that is pre-agreed upon between both units were a Solder can/will drill if the drill dates fall on dates where the Soldier is not actively working and not just the potential to be called into work. Additionally, a unit Commander does not have to sign off on the form to continue a Soldiers ability to be on ADOS if they choose not to when the renewal time comes around.

We have had this situation come up in the past where we have a Soldier who is on ADOS orders and works locally to where drill/IDT occurs and can/is expected to come in and blows it off because they say they are on ADOS and can be called in at any time and chooses not to come in and support the unit. I believe the Soldier had agreed to still drill with the unit and it was a stipulation of him going on ADOS and I believe there was a signed memo to confirm this. When his renewal time came up he started coming around more and I believe his ADOS orders were extended under the same assumption that the Soldier would drill with his unit when possible. I can also see by your post that you knew that your unit would still require you to drill with them if they let you go on ADOS, so that's something you were aware of before you went on ADOS and something you should have anticipated having to deal with. ADOS like many other assignments are not required by commands to sign of on they are usually reserved for the best and brightest Soldiers, and this is not to say you are not one of those Soldiers. What I'm trying to say is that these assignments are the exception, not the norm. It also sounds like your new unit does not want you to attend drills anymore and if that is the case you should let the two CDRs sort this out among themselves.

Bottom line if a Soldier is on ADOS I can assume I won't see them for the duration for their orders, but it does create a burden because that paragraph and line number is being occupied by a ghost. I can see your specific heartache because of the distance you travel and in your circumstance an IST may be in your favor. I always tell Soldiers to drill close to home. I appreciate their allegiance to the unit and good Soldiers are always hard to come by, but I would rather eliminate any future negative scenarios and have them drill closer to home instead of flying out for one weekend which could become costly and burdensome. My loss is another units gain, but at least my UMR will be better served by me being able to fill it with a Soldier who can be present for duty.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 6:54 PM

2015-06-05T18:54:02-04:00

Unless you were involuntarily mobilized (I doubt it), then your State is required to provide a release letter from your Adjutant General in order to go on T10 ADOS orders. This release letter must be in place before you can be placed on voluntary T10 ADOS orders. A release letter is just that - an acknowledgement and agreement that the State (Governor and/or TAG, depending on the laws of the State/Territory/District involved) is releasing you from your obligation to the Governor and/or TAG.

Having said that, you need to aware that your State (PA) can involuntarily recall you from your T10 orders to come back to the State. I have seen this just a few times in my 32 years with the National Guard (primarily for unit involuntary mobilizations supporting federal missions). Your orders (you should read them) should state ". . .with the consent of the Governor and Adjutant General of Pennsylvania you are hereby ordered . . ."

There are also some expectations associated with remaining in "contact" with your unit while you are on T10 orders (since they supported your desire for a T10 tour). This can be a slippery slope. I have seen differing opinions from lawyers regarding the legality of paying TDY for the purpose of attending drills with a unit in a "State" status (under Governor control). If you get injured while on the road or at drill, there may be some tough questions for the leadership of the organization you are on T10 orders to support, as well as your PANG unit leadership that allowed you to drill knowing you were not in a State status.

I know MG Joseph (your TAG) very well. Want me to give him a call?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 7:16 PM

2015-06-05T19:16:00-04:00

I'm not going to argue regs with people. 340 miles is a long trip.

On the other hand, I was on Title 10 and had a 900+ mile trip (each way ... Texas is a big state.) Chalk that up to dedication, maybe. Once you go on AD, the Army owns you 365 days a year. One SIMPLE solution ... if your AD unit objects to your attending drills, ask them to call you in on Friday and send a memo to your unit. Another alternative ... if you are living outside of the 50 mile radius of your unit, you can request a 90-day absence to find a unit closer to where you live. (Of course, you really do have to try and find a unit.)

Response by CPL George Blair made Jun 5 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-06-05T19:19:32-04:00

Yes even though you are on orders you have to drill been there a and done it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 7:26 PM

2015-06-05T19:26:12-04:00

When I was on ADSW, I did unless the ADSW work conflicted.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jun 5 at 2015 7:33 PM

2015-06-05T19:33:45-04:00

I have been on Title 10 mobilized, title 32 ADOS and now Title 32 AGR
You really need to start with your packet see what you agreed to, use your NCO chain of support, make sure you include your Readiness NCO
He/she may have a solution you are not seeing if that doesn't work talk to your 1SG
Use the IG as a last resort a majority of times your chain of command just isn't seeing the big picture .

I have dealt with this situation with my own personal career and with Soldiers in my care

Hope this helps

Response by MAJ Monique Ruiz made Jun 5 at 2015 8:31 PM

2015-06-05T20:31:55-04:00

They cannot require you to. However, it is in your best interest to remain active with your unit. You wouldn't want to burn your bridges with them because they approve you to remain on ADOS. You will also keep up with your collective and mandatory trainings.

Anytime I was ADOS, I maintained an active drilling status. I understand it requires you to work more but nothing comes free or cheap.

As my company has come to realize, For God and Country. Though I never let their efforts go unrecognized or unappreciated.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 9:05 PM

2015-06-05T21:05:03-04:00

Yes, they can still require you to attend drills - it's in your orders. ADOS and AGR positions still require you to drill with your M-Day unit. You won't be paid TDY or be reimbursed by the unit for hotels either, which is the same for M-Day Soldiers.

Now that the bad news is out of the way, there are two options to consider. You can pursue SUTA options with a closer unit. It sounds like your current unit is unwilling to do that, but try taking it up with your ADOS command or perhaps the higher headquarters. Personally, I can't think of a reason that I wouldn't let one of my Soldiers do that.

Two, National Guard duty has special tax laws governing travel beyond a certain mileage. You can claim the per diem rate for food, hotels, and incidentals as well as the standard mileage rate ($.565/mile) any time you travel over 100 miles from home for duty. This is treated as a credit, not an itemized deduction. Source: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc511.html

Good luck!

Tax Topics - Topic 511 Business Travel Expenses

Travel expenses are the ordinary and necessary expenses of traveling away from home for your business, profession or job. Generally, employees deduct these expenses by using Form 2106 (PDF), Employee Business Expenses, or Form 2106-EZ (PDF), Unreimbursed Employee Business Expenses, and Form 1040, Schedule A (PDF), Itemized Deductions. You cannot deduct expenses that are lavish or extravagant or that are for personal purposes.

Response by CMSgt Mike Esser made Jun 5 at 2015 9:28 PM

2015-06-05T21:28:31-04:00

You should not have to . However, i pulled 18 mos at NGB and my commander made me come back on my own dime, it cost me money.... But, remember, your commander is also releasing you to go., your earning down your retirement age, building retirement points and earning post 9-11 gi bill percentage. If they make you drill, do it with grace.

Response by SGT Mike R made Jun 5 at 2015 10:59 PM

2015-06-05T22:59:53-04:00

If you are under Title 10 orders (FEDERAL) no you don't go to drill. You shouldn't even be on the state roll and would be under your assigned T10 unit. Your RNCO needs to be slapped and learn the difference between T10 and T38.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 12:10 AM

2015-06-06T00:10:05-04:00

I am more familiar with Title 32 ADOS in which your unit CDR signs authorizing you to be on ADOS is kind of the power he/she holds to require you to come to drill or not, because they don't have to sign it the next time you are up for orders if they feel that they need you back in your home unit more. I was ADOS before for almost 3 years and always had to drill with my home unit, some months once with my home unit and another weekend with my ADOS unit. I see a lot of back and forth with ADOS Soldiers being pulled between their full time ADOS and MDay units, but as previously stated by someone else, ADOS is a privilege and not an entitlement; That is the price you pay for the vast benefits ADOS orders supply. As long as you remain on ADOS it will likely be a dance of accommodating both commands. The best way out in my opinion is working towards AGR. Also, we all are in a 24/7 status, that's why it's called "Active Duty" and as long as you belong to a unit, you have obligations to that unit. A better attitude would probably go a long way to help your cause as well. I hope that your IST works out soon and you don't struggle as much with the lodging and mileage requirements.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 12:14 AM

2015-06-06T00:14:25-04:00

The best advice I could ever give to you is to check the regulations. Both the states and the federals. I don't doubt that the advice you got from here is accurate but I would always CYOA and have the regulations to prove your position.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 6:47 AM

2015-06-06T06:47:57-04:00

The correct way of handling this would have been prior to you even going on orders, you should have been counseled by someone in your COC. In this counseling, it should have clearly stated what both you and your units responsibilities were in the event that you become ADOS. This would have cleared up any misunderstandings.

I might have missed this before, but are you 100% positive that you are Title 10? Title 10 for an E4 is extremely rare...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 8:35 AM

2015-06-06T08:35:30-04:00

Currently I'm on ADOS orders. I've made an agreement with my Commander that I would attend AT, also I had the option to SUTA K my Junes drill (mind you a MUTA 8) , so I said yes but I was asked also if I didn't want to go. So it all depends

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-06-09T18:16:34-04:00

Most definitely just because you are on ADOS doesn't mean you miss drill.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 1:09 PM

2015-06-11T13:09:02-04:00

You should not "have" to drill. Once on "active" duty you are no longer in reserve status, assigned to your reserve unit or report to them until you return to "reserve" status. You are active assigned to them 24/7. If the unit you are currently working active duty for requires you to attend TDY then travel orders with pay would be included. Recommend getting ahold of the Command Sgt for your active duty unit to help you. Even though this is the legal and right thing to do, this will not endear you to your home unit. I've heard lots of stories about how reserve units don't like having people not show up and be deployed or activated, even though that is the reason reserve members exist. Recommend joining ROA and reading the legal briefs they have.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 1:30 PM

2015-06-11T13:30:09-04:00

This is a very interesting posting as I see many who believe they have to drill while on active duty. I'm curious why anyone would think this is normal or required. While commendable if the person doesn't want to take away from there home unit I would be interested to see the legal requirement to do so.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2015 4:52 PM

2015-06-13T16:52:07-04:00

This is my understanding of how it works. Your home unit can have your orders revoked at any time. If you are in PA ARNG be happy you are on ADOS since many people have been dropped from ADOS orders last year due to budgetary constraints. While you are on ADOs you are still counted against the RC rolls until 3 years of ADOS then you will be counted on Active Duty rolls instead of RC rolls. Even though you are on ADOS orders, you are still required to drill because you are a PA ARNG soldier and are responsible to your parent unit. If you didn't drill then you wouldn't be on ADOS orders either. The unit you are doing ADOs for also drills but you do not have to drill with them because they are not your parent unit.