Drinking in Uniform? Good idea?

SGM Matthew Quick — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:35:54 -0400

Not sure if it is authorized or even appropriate, but what are your thoughts about our senior leaders drinking (taking shots, specifically) while in the Army Combat Uniform?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 11:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:49:55 -0400

I'm sure you remember having O call at the on post pub on Fridays after work, I did not like attending but my CSM told me I would be there. After an hour all the senior leaders were half tanked and getting really lippy. I never attended again. I think it bad behavior if your down at Chilli's or wherever in uniform having shots and should not be tolerated

Response by SPC Alicia Davis made Jun 12 at 2014 12:00 PM

SPC Alicia Davis — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:00:29 -0400

Not a good look.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 12:01 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:01:11 -0400

While there isn't a technical difference between downing shots and sipping a glass of wine (it's alcohol either way) but I say the visual of senior leaders downing shots has a more negative impact than if they were at a table drinking a bottle of beer, a glass of wine or a highball of whiskey (my preference). It shouldn't, but that's just my opinion of how society might view it...I think within the confines of the NCO club, it would probably be more acceptable, definitely not down at the local restaurant/bar (Chili's as SFC Stacy stated).

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 12:02 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:02:37 -0400

This is an easy fix. All NCO Calls, O Calls the uniform is Civilian. I won't sit here on my soap box and say I never went to a Engineer Call or NCO Call and didn't have a beer. Back to the question, No drinking in uniform is not a good idea, to many eyes looking around. Social media will twist and turn it all around as this proves. My question is, didn't Facebook say this photo was taken off post? Why was this NCO Call happening off post? Situational awareness.

Response by 1SG James Wise made Jun 12 at 2014 12:18 PM

1SG James Wise — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:18:32 -0400

Drinking a beer or glass of wine at a leader call on base is one thing...downing shots portrays a whole different look, even ON BASE. NO, I do not think that the Garrison CSM or any other senior leader at that level, particularly on a TRADOC base where our NCOs are attending leader courses and may be present to witness this (in civilians likely) should happen or be tolerated.

With that said, the NCOs pictured senior leaders just need to have a side-bar with them, and then those NCOs need to conduct an NCOPD with their subordinates to put out the right way to do a leader call (right-arm-night) and how you should conduct yourself...and that should be the end of it. More than likely, given our last 12-13 years of combat, no one ever instructed these NCOs what should happen or how it should look...it was deployments back to back for many and time to conduct traditional things like leaders calls or right arm nights was non-existent in most units....teach the right way and keep some traditions alive is my thought.

Response by Sgt John H. made Jun 12 at 2014 12:24 PM

Sgt John H. — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:24:37 -0400

Just a bad idea. The uniform identifies you as a member of the United States Armed Forces. Wearing the uniform means that you are a representative of the United States and you should represent our country with the correct courtesy and military bearing at all times. Drinking in public in uniform does not project the correct image. What would you think if you observed Police Officers or Firemen drinking in uniform?

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 12:30 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:30:08 -0400

Here's the thing.... ten years ago this picture would probably never had been taken, and certainly would not have ever ended up on the internet making fast rounds on the social media sites. Ten years ago, most people didn't have cell phones with cameras, many people didn't own a digital camera, and no one had even heard of Facebook. That wouldn't have made this situation acceptable, but let's admit, drinking has always been something that happens in the military (both in and out of uniform - and at all levels).

The lesson that seems to be constantly not learned is that no one is safe from observation in today's world. At some point you are going to be photographed without your knowledge, and at some point that photo is going to make it onto someone's social media site. If the behavior that is captured is something that people can pick apart you better believe that people will come after you like a hungry pack of wolves.

I just don't understand how individuals such as these (from the picture here it looks like they are all Sergeants Major - or at least Master Sergeants), can ever again dish out constant advice on Soldier's behaving appropriately and the dangers of social media now that they have been bit by the Facebook monster. A total loss of credibility has occurred, and as a result a potential for a loss of discipline.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 12:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:37:08 -0400

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. Perception is reality in our business and the perception here is the relationships between the seniors and subordinates is far too confortable. In my opinion if you are in uniform you are on duty and the legal alcohol limit is .05 to be drunk on duty.
IAW AR 670-1
4–3. Occasions for wear:
(2) Personnel may not wear the combat uniform in off-post establishments that primarily sell alcohol. If the off-post establishment sells alcohol and food, Soldiers may not wear the combat uniform if their activities in the establishment center on the drinking of alcohol.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 12:38 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:38:19 -0400

SGM Quick,

From AR 670-1:

c. Restrictions on wear.
(1) Soldiers may not wear the combat uniform for commercial travel unless authorized IAW paragraph 3–7b through c, above.
(2) Personnel may not wear the combat uniform in off-post establishments that primarily sell alcohol. If the off-post establishment sells alcohol and food, Soldiers may not wear the combat uniform if their activities in the establishment center on the drinking of alcohol.
(3) The combat uniform is not normally considered appropriate for social or official functions off the installation, such as memorial services, funerals, weddings, inaugurals, patriotic ceremonies, and similar functions.
(4) Commanders may further restrict wear of the combat uniform IAW paragraph 2–6c.

So (2) does not specifically restrict from drinking while in uniform, but the activities cannot center on that - i.e. out to dinner in ACU's and have a beer with that meal would likely be considered as acceptable. However, the perception from this photo is that the activities here center around the drinking of alcohol. The key to fixing this is found in (4), where installation commanders can restrict uniform wear as they see fit - i.e. ACU's are not authorized for wear at any time when a Soldier is consuming alcohol in a public location - both on and off post. Problem solved, problem staying solved, Rangers lead the way.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 12:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:39:07 -0400

I do not believe it is unappropriate nor proffessional to do it while in uniform. If a unit is going to do a NCO call or O call their should be enough time to change into civilian clothes. I do know here in FT. Campbell in CAM PAM 600-1 Section 3, Par 6. Soldiers are authorized to wear the ACU during commercial travel both CONUS and OCONUS. Soldiers will not wear the ACU in off-post establishments that primarily sell alcohol. If the off-post establishment sells alcohol and food, Soldier may not wear the ACU if the activities in the establishment center on drinking alcohol.

Of course every Installation has its own polices and Regulations, but still either way I believe its unappropriate and unprofessional no matter where you are in while in uniform. That goes with a Military Ball that is why their are Senior Leaders and other personel not drinking to ensure Soldiers are not getting out of control.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 12:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:42:54 -0400

Is calling your BDE/BN CSM by his firsts name a good job? No it's a terrible idea and it's even worse when you have photo evidence

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jun 12 at 2014 12:54 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:54:09 -0400

My question is -- how does this impact the good order and discipline of the unit, or of units whose personnel see this? I think this would have a negative impact in that regard. If these were junior enlisted personnel, my guess is that in many cases they would face consequences within the unit and get scuffed up by their first line supervisors.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Jun 12 at 2014 1:17 PM

1SG Mike Case — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 13:17:40 -0400

I would start off by saying, if this is Chili's then I would say it is not the best place to be taking shots. I remember the NCO Calls on West Ft. hood at the Longhorn Saloon and even recently, I have seen high ranking Soldiers at a formal social function pull out a bottle and start taking shots, once the "fun portion" of the evening started. I don't think there is a problem with taking a shot of alcohol, I just think that we have to be aware of where we are and the image we are giving.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 12 at 2014 1:33 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 13:33:54 -0400

This was on Fort Lee. Here is the Fort Lee Policy Letter on alcohol.

http://www.lee.army.mil/documents/policy/FL%20Policy%2004-05%20Alcoholic%20Beverages%20Policy.pdf

I leave it to you to decide. For reference, the establishment is on post. Personally, I know it looks bad, but after reading the 670-1's and the policy letter, for me there's nothing specific to point at and say "you violated that".

It looks bad, but..

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 2:05 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:05:20 -0400

I have seen drinking in uniform a few times, Right Arm, Boss nights and at Dinning IN/OUTs

In the picture there are all leaders, Don't leaders always do the right thing

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made Jun 12 at 2014 2:28 PM

SFC Stephen Carden — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:28:26 -0400

There is a long culture of drinking in the military, as far back as 1776 I'm sure. Alcohol was, until the 1980's, an accepted part of military life, and even an encouraged social activity. Soldiers stationed in Germany were allowed two beers with lunch until right before I got there in 1993 (figures). Officers were expected to go to the "club" for social functions on a regular basis. Hell, most commanders and 1SGs had a bottle of something in their desk! During the post-Vietnam professionalization of the Army, this fell out of fashion for the most part. There are still occasions where NCO calls or officer calls or leader's calls still happen, but they are getting more rare. I think the zero tolerance policy on DUI has something to do with that (this picture was on-post at Ft. Lee. I wonder how many of those SNCOs were driving home afterwards?) as well as the stricter fraternization policy. I, for one, do not want to hang out on-post with the same people I just had to spend all day with anyway. I want to head to the house, take off the uniform, and have a few beers without having to drive afterwards. A scene like this makes me wish that there were seperate clubs for the different ranks. SNCOs getting hammered and acting like frat kids should not be witnessed by junior Soldiers. What happens when one of the SNCOs in this picture has a Soldier who is involved in an alcohol-related incident? If that Soldier had seen the event in the picture occurring, do you think that SNCO would then have the credibility to counsel that Soldier on his abuse of alcohol? I don't.
I think that drinking alcohol in uniform is never a good idea, unless it is one or two beers at a unit function. If you are going to pound shots, it is just too easy to bring a change of clothers to the office, or go home and change. Then again, if this was at Fort Lee, then we are talking about the QM corps (of which I was once a part), so they probably have to drink to drown out the depression over their miserable existance!

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made Jun 12 at 2014 2:30 PM

SFC Stephen Carden — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:30:42 -0400

SGM, are you sure this wasn't the graduation party over at USASMA? LOL!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 2:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:47:14 -0400

Posting the picture in yet another social media outlet? Good idea? probably not.

The problem I see with this type of thing is that it has been going on for years (I know that doesn't make it right) and has become a tradition of sorts. With social media, and almost every person on earth having a camera at their immediate disposal by means of cell phones, and the ability to upload to the internet for the whole world to see in seconds, is what makes it unbearable.

The older NCOs on here know good and well, this use to happen all the time on on-post facilities (which this was) in order to bring leaders together and build camaraderie and esprit de corps. At least in the combat arms arena it did.

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Jun 12 at 2014 3:53 PM

Cpl Ray Fernandez — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:53:41 -0400

It's a bad idea. It sends the wrong image of the unit and if something happens it makes it easier to figure out who was involved. If I'm going to drink I'm going to have a good time and don't want to wear any type of identifying work related clothes. Might just be the Marine is used to our utilities (our name for what you guys refer to as ACUs) is for work and not liberty.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jun 12 at 2014 4:21 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:21:25 -0400

At an official event, I don't see a problem as long as the service member maintains their bearing. But in the picture, it just looks like a bunch of Soldiers at a local bar drinking up. With all the alcohol abuse in the military, this doesn't set the best example. It's one thing to go out celebrate. But drink a beer or maybe two and leave it at that. To be seen slinging back shot after shot after shot just sends the wrong message.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 4:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:55:01 -0400

I say its wrong to drink in uniform at all with the exception of a glass of wine at a formal ball. Even then, moderation is a must. To drink in a combat uniform with your soldiers in a bar is wrong on so many levels. Just remember that your actions in that situation is the example your soldiers will follow.

Response by SFC William Trent made Jun 12 at 2014 6:37 PM

SFC William Trent — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:37:18 -0400

I just don't see an issue here. In fact I like it when leaders of all ranks can meet and come together in a relaxed atmosphere.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 12 at 2014 8:24 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 20:24:03 -0400

As long as its kept in control and off facebook and the MP blotter. pictures like this, while celebratory in nature, have a way of giving the wrong impression if they appear in the wrong media.

Take the photo of the soldier licking the MIA logo - that could have been part of one such celebration, but look what message that sent.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 9:06 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 21:06:22 -0400

Ok while there are many good points from both sides of the spectrum depending how you are looking at it. But in my opinion as a lower enlisted E-4 and 34 years old( I know better) but i am around alot of newly fresh out of basic privates that if they were to see this picture and were under any of these senior enlisted ncos command, it would be like giving them the green light to do the same. With them its a monkey see monkey do type thing especially if they look up to you as a leader and as a mentor. The way i see it live the way you want to live on your free time but when we get up each morning and put on the uniform we are the embodiment and image of the army, our fallen brothers and sisters, and those we are currently serve with to all who we encounter up until we take the uniform off.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 6:36 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 06:36:29 -0400

I've had A beer in ACUs before going home. But shots or excessive drinking...never.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 8:12 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 08:12:45 -0400

Here is a question to ponder now that this has come to light. Ft. Lee has a plethora of young soldiers that are social media nuts and have undoubtedly seen this and assumed it is proper. Now they decide they want to stop by the local bar on post in uniform and do the same. What do you think some senior NCO is going to do?

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 9:24 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:24:33 -0400

My personnel opinion is that sitting down having a drink or two in uniform is not a bad thing. We are adults and do more than most to protect the liberties that we are granted by our country. But professionally, I believe that because we have folks within our ranks that can't behave responsibly we should avoid drinking in uniform. Some might see this image as glamorizing alcohol and there is a constant struggle to keep SM form getting DUIs and being apart of ARIs. I think the army should HAMMER every single DUI case and select mature responsible people to wear the uniform. Then having a celebratory drink or having a drink with colleagues after work in uniform would be ok. With all mechanisms perceived to be “bad” (i.e. alcohol and guns), their is a conscious decision making process that steers an individuals actions prior to and after the implementation of that mechanism. Lets control the people we let in the military, not the LEGAL activities responsible SMs choose to indulge in while wearing the uniform.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Jun 13 at 2014 9:25 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:25:49 -0400

Seeing how 670-1 only covers "off-post" locations and drinking in uniform, it comes down to Post Command/Unit Command Policies, if none exist then it should be fine for anyone to drink in uniform while "on-post". Although I may not have the favored opinion on this topic, these leaders are not in the wrong if no Policy is in place. Everything else is a matter of personal opinion and has no bearing.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Jun 13 at 2014 11:30 AM

Cpl Glynis Sakowicz — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:30:55 -0400

I am not sure if I qualify to answer on this one because, unless they have changed the regulations, Marines don't go anywhere but to and from work in their uniforms... other than class A's and Blues.
I can honestly say the only time I ever saw anyone in uniform drinking, was at the Marine Corps Ball, or the E Club.
Its a big thing in the Marines, that when in uniform, you are not just "YOU". To the world at large, you represent the entire Corps, so there are a thousand eyes on you when you leave a Marine base. Even stopping for gas in your Cammies is frowned upon, so you will not see Marines in that uniform slugging back a few shots at the local watering hole.... unless, as I said, the regulations have changed drastically.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 11:36 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:36:20 -0400

Since senior leadership is suppose to (surprise) lead by example. Then they should be conscious of what kind of example they are setting to their troops. If they wish to drink, then they should have the forethought to hold the get together in their homes and not post it on social media. Yes, I know I'm only a buck sergeant but all you SFC, SGM, and CSM out there. WE are watching YOU. YOU guys are our examples on what a good NCO is supposed to be. And the lower enlisted are watching all of US. So, as the shining examples, we should not be of the opinion that, well the regs don't prohibit it. Just because the regs may allow it doesn't mean its a good idea. Good leaders go beyond the regs to show their troops whats right.

Response by MSG Sean Milhauser made Jun 13 at 2014 12:00 PM

MSG Sean Milhauser — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:00:22 -0400

SGM, I concur with many other leaders that have commented. First, there are distinctions between a dining out or a St. Barbara's Ball, for example, where drinking a glass of wine or a beer with a meal in a social setting seems acceptable. Second, the new AR 670-1 draws fairly clear guidelines as to what "right looks like". That being said, even if it was acceptable, the key words here are "perception" and "optics". Again, as other leaders have noted here, it simply LOOKS BAD.

Yes, we can agree that 15, 20, 25 years ago (when I first came in the Army), CSMs and 1SGs would go to the NCO Club (anyone remember those?) and knock back a few.

But the Army and the military is in a different culture now. The example given here portrays leaders, and especially senior leaders, in a negative light, and sets a poor example. And the issue is exacerbated because in the era of social media and everyone having a camera on their phone now, the whole world can view our mistakes.

I'm certainly not faulting these leaders for enjoying some camaraderie and espirit-de-corps in a social setting, but it would have been a better decision to be in civilian clothing.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 12:42 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:42:09 -0400

I just spent the past few weeks in France, culminating with the 70th Anniversary celebrations of Operation Neptune. Every night, we went out and drank. Nothing crazy but we drank. Most nights we were out in Ste Mere Eglise with GOs and their SEAs. And we drank, in public, in uniform. Pictures of us probably look just as bad, if not worse.

Did we get out of control? No. Did we represent and conduct ourselves professionally with the peoples of Normandy and Ste Mere Eglise? Yes. Can you tell that from a picture? No.

We're always quick to judge others without knowing the context.

To answer your question though: generally I stay away from drinking in uniform. I just think it's a shame images like this make it onto social media and then are scrutinized by the military community. Because the truth is, the public will see this and not bat and eye.

Response by SFC William Trent made Jun 13 at 2014 1:43 PM

SFC William Trent — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:43:07 -0400

I would like to add this to discussion. I think it's wrong of us to post any picture and have discussion like we are having about them without them knowing about it !!! I'm not saying her there permission but at least be advised. I think we could have the discussion without using their picture

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 5:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:11:34 -0400

Taking shots in uniform is a disgrace to said uniform. I'm not against drinking in uniform 100%, I believe provided its well regulated and the person is not getting drunk or drinking for bad reasons then it can be "ok" of course its always better to drink without being in uniform
Taking shots while in uniform on the other hand not only crosses the line, it laps it.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 13 at 2014 10:03 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:03:41 -0400

Probably wasn't too kosher in my day and I'm sure it is less so now but I guess something's never change. Alcohol Abuse at its finest although I am not one to talk. Pretty sure I never had a sober day in Adak or Diego Garcia.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Jun 13 at 2014 10:27 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:27:07 -0400

They are setting themselves up for DUI charges, I bet MP's was waiting outside for an easy opportunity.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 10:42 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:42:12 -0400

I have never supported drinking of any kind in uniform, it brings bad attention to the service. I rank this up to the embarrassment of military installations "Harlem Shake". Not good on any level and no room for a professional service.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2014 4:20 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 04:20:47 -0400

I know what 670-1 says but there is also:

AR 215-1 Chapter 10. MWR events, Military Balls, Right arm night, certain area's in the CJOA "not CJOA-A" sometimes it is authorized and sometimes there are instillations that have a policy in regards to Alcohol consumption, adding to the reg, which Commanders can do. I do know what the regulation says in regards to it, but it seems like it is Commanders discretion. One reg says something and anoter says something to the contrary. For example, AR 215-1 Chapter 10 says that Alcohol can be purchased for MWR functions, those are MWR funds; however, JFTR says that purchasing Alcohol using government funds is a complete no no. If it was a complete prohibition the regulation will state it clearly "you cannot do this,"and "you cannot do that," but for Alcohol that is not the case, and thats why I assume that it is left at Commanders discretion.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2014 11:30 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 11:30:11 -0400

To quote be impartial the regulation in reference to Combat Uniforms:

AR-670-1, 4-3
(2) Personnel may not wear the combat uniform in off-post establishments that primarily sell alcohol. If the off-post establishment sells alcohol and food, Soldiers may not wear the combat uniform if their activities in the establishment center on the drinking of alcohol.

The regulation has the exact same stipulations on dress/mess uniforms. This can be just like most other regulations interpreted however the Commander chooses to do so. I would imagine that if the overall focus of the Soldiers in uniform shifts to that of being alcohol consumption then it would be unauthorized. The regulation says you may not where the uniform if it centers around drinking but never says that you aren't allowed to consume alcohol at all.

Another important thing to understand is that almost every post has its own policies on this subject and while the regulation may not prohibit the consumption of alcohol the policies might.

As for appearance of senior leaders drinking in Combat Uniform. I feel as if you would only see this in unit sponsored events, such as Hail and Fairwells. I think my previous statement stands true still. If it gets to the point where the Hail and Fairwell loses focus then that is where it begins to cross the line.

Regardless of what the regulation says, we as leaders have a responsibility to uphold standards of conduct and to carry ourselves with a higher sense of responsibility. We expect our Soldiers to be be good stewards and we should set that example. Drinking in itself is not a horrible act, its the actions or inactions we take during and after drinking that creates problems.

Endstate: Leaders set the example. Stay within the guidelines documented for us and you cannot go wrong. Failure to understand regulation is not a reason to dismiss it.

Response by 1SG Russell Carey made Jun 16 at 2014 9:42 AM

1SG Russell Carey — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 09:42:46 -0400

Should not happen. I retired in 2005 and to this day when I see this happening I go and inform them of the regulations. Most of the time they are Senior NCOs or Officers. Most of the time I am met with hostility, mind your own business, regulations have changed and other vulgar responses I shouldn't put in print. I let them know I'll be calling their COC in the morning. I think it is unprofessional.

Response by SN Kenneth Melton made Jun 16 at 2014 11:50 AM

SN Kenneth Melton — Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:50:17 -0400

I think it's very unprofessional. I'm ex Navy and when I was active we were not allowed to be seen in any establishment in our uniform unless it was our dress uniform. I work on an Army instalation and with this new military I see the out shopping in malls, eating in restaurants, drinking at the bar in some restaurants and sometimes they are in partial uniform. In today's society and being at war with terrorism they are now exposing themselves and innocent bystanders. Not only that the Army does not teach respect, responsibility or have any kind of discipline anymore. Like someone else said the lower enlisted are going to do what the leadership does because now they think it's okay.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2014 1:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:34:39 -0400

this send a bad massage when drinking in uniform

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 1:52 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Aug 2014 01:52:28 -0400

Not ok unless it's a military function. St Barbra's day ball. Army ball ect. Defenatly not in acus. Now you can't get all the senior leaders together at a bar and call it a military function. It looks unprofessional if I was a civ. if you want to drink in uniform. Do it at the house.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 3:07 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Aug 2014 03:07:06 -0400

Terrible Idea. Perception is the reality, especially in the Army. If I want a beer or scotch I will be in civs or in my own house.

Military social functions it is fine, I will drink socially likely 1 per hour but not can't do the binge drinking anymore.. Bad for ones image, bad for hangovers. College days have faded it would seem.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Aug 8 at 2014 4:04 AM

SGT Suraj Dave — Fri, 08 Aug 2014 04:04:46 -0400

Soldiers are their own worst enemies. This photo, along with many others showing NCO's doing inappropriate things, usually originate from the facebook page "U.S. Army WTF Moments". Its pretty much run by lower enlisted soldiers, who take these candid photo's and upload them online. For all to see. There are actually a couple more photos from this event, and one of these is actually an SGM.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 3:52 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 03:52:59 -0400

First off…what is this fuckery

Ok now that, that is done… NO to myself this seems unprofessional with shots. One beer just to drink while eating is one thing but to drink like they seem to be no. If you're going to go out and shot it up bring a change of clothes or keep some in your car.

I always had what I called an "overnight" bag in my car. Hygiene supplies, clothes, my blankie haha and anything else I would need for just in case. Some days after a friday night the guys would want to hit up a bar, I didn't have time to go home and change and do all that so before I would leave work I'd change out then go.

Called responsibility

Response by MSG Sommer Brown made Oct 25 at 2014 10:33 AM

MSG Sommer Brown — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 10:33:07 -0400

I would say absolutely NOT. We set the example for those around us and for what the perception is of the armed forces service members and this certainly is not an example I would want to ever set or my Soldiers.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 2:33 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 14:33:52 -0400

Used to be in AR 360-5 (public info) we were not to take nor allow publication of such photos (original theory was they were used in Soviet propaganda, and of course the idea of setting a proper example).

Response by PO2 Jonathan Scharff made Oct 26 at 2014 9:41 AM

PO2 Jonathan Scharff — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:41:59 -0400

There will not be any posted photos of me drinking in uniform because I didn't ever do it. I just never thought it looked right. Even as a child watching "war movies" where soldiers were consuming alcohol I never thought it was a dignified look.

Sometimes leadership starts with you...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 4:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:41:14 -0400

I have always found that it looks tacky and that it should be avoided.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 5:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 17:59:56 -0400

While there is no direct regulation that says you cannot imbibe alcohol while in uniform, most post policies will have something along the lines of "you may drink an alcoholic beverage in on post establishments while in uniform, but only a few. Drinking in uniform in off-post establishments is not allowed."

I actually had this discussion with my unit a while ago. I know the I Corp policy on JBLM says the above. I actually talked to a Sergeant, 2 Staff Sergeants and a Sergeant First Class (two of the four were former Drill Sergeants) at the Buffalo Wild Wings in Tacoma who were drinking in uniform. I told them they were wrong, told them were to find it in the I Corp Policy book, and they pretty much told me to fornicate myself. I got their names and emailed their CSM, but I don't know what came of it.

Personally, I think the pride that is supposed to be coupled with the uniform should say absolutely not. What I do is keep a set of civilian clothes in my car at all times, just in case somebody says "Hey, let's go get a drink." This way, I can change and do what I need to do.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 3:24 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:24:59 -0400

Not something i'd condone or even practice. I went out drinking in civilians once with a fellow NCO and when their soldier came by and bought them a shot I advised them against it. Not cause drinking is bad per-say, but drinking a beverage purchased by your soldier I feel gives the wrong signals. Same for senior leaders.

Response by MSG Sommer Brown made Oct 27 at 2014 3:05 PM

MSG Sommer Brown — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:05:04 -0400

I personally never see it OK to drink in front of your Soldiers even at a military function. We try so hard to make excuses in today's society for what we want to do to be ok, but what we fail to do now days is uphold that image of honor, respect, dignity, and perception that you can have fun and not have to include alcohol to do it. The first thing that happens when a military ball rolls around are Hospitality rooms and the competition to see which chain of command can put on the best room. What is the image we are portraying, we have a zero policy but yet we offer SM alcohol at a military function and then don't mandate they spend the night there, we don't even monitor their intake or give breathalyzers prior to leaving, but we sure will write someone up quick, fast and in a hurry if they are stopped for a DUI. We leaders need to display the values and behaviors we expect our Soldiers to uphold and show them that it does not require alcohol at an event to have a good time.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 8:47 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 20:47:03 -0400

Not authorized regardless of rank. Like 1sgt Nolan said, the dumbass factor has to be watched out for everywhere, social media isn't the place for your junior enlisted & nco's to see you doing shots in uniform. Whether it's a justified occasion and venue or not, the insinuation is what will destroy the discipline that was in place prior to the photo being circulated. If it was in an on post establishment & a "right arm ceremony", the photo shows senior NCO's "in a bar, at the bar doing shots with a civilian and there is no food in evidence." their juniors don't have the experience or wisdom to see anything but the obvious like I previously said.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 9:12 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:12:38 -0500

There is only ONE exception for this for me personally and that is Dining In. Other than that, I never have and I never will. Just my personal opinion.
Why? The media loves to show the "Out of control Military" and when it comes to our troops and these last 12 years of war, I would say it's been 80% Negative and 20% positive displayed in the media. I am not willing to assist in tarnishing the reputation of our Military in any way.
Second... Self control! If I need to drink that bad, I can also change clothes to do it. Five minutes changing clothes beats the hell out of someone taking pictures in an establishment without me knowing and claiming "They are out of control" because someone laughed at a joke with a glass in his hand. 2015... perception is everything!

Response by PFC Aaron Knapp made Jan 19 at 2015 5:07 PM

PFC Aaron Knapp — Mon, 19 Jan 2015 17:07:03 -0500

We were not allowed to wear our BDUs out socially while I was in the Army. They made us change our clothes to "go out". That being said My SM brought a bar to gunnery and had a two beer limit when we didn't have the range the next day.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 19 at 2015 5:28 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Mon, 19 Jan 2015 17:28:24 -0500

This was one area that I can admit that my views are far too extreme. Under no circumstances should a soldier ever drink while in uniform. I have been offered a lot of free drinks at air ports and not once did I accept. Even on base with my unit I would not accept. For some reason I just find it incredibly disgraceful, and I really don't know why.

I'm sure someone can fill me in on why I'm like that.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2015 5:29 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Jan 2015 17:29:24 -0500

Personally, I don't do it. I don't particularly mind others that do. However, being drunk in uniform is a different story.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 6 at 2015 3:36 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:36:31 -0400

ACU's in a public place drinking? Not something I would encourage or participate in. I frown on it myself. How many of them got in a car and drove home?

Response by MSG Alfred Aguilar made Oct 2 at 2015 12:19 AM

MSG Alfred Aguilar — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:19:41 -0400

Oh please...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 12:36 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Oct 2015 12:36:50 -0400

I would like to know if it is ok to drink in the dress uniform. I will be attending a wedding and plan on wearing the dress uniform not planning on getting drunk just one or two glasses of wine. Would like to know if that is allowed?

Response by MSgt Daniel Attilio made Oct 25 at 2015 2:01 PM

MSgt Daniel Attilio — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 14:01:21 -0400

Amongst peers I think it is okay so long as the group has sense and maybe a volunteer to herd the unruly when needed.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2015 8:52 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 20:52:27 -0500

I don't know if it's authorized, but it's an awful idea. In dress uniforms, where it's obvious you're celebrating some kind of special occasion, there's an obvious need for some leeway. In a working uniform, drinking generally isn't allowed at all, and it's because it looks trashy while giving an impression that isn't very flattering.

Response by MSG Dave Rossman made Aug 26 at 2016 11:47 PM

MSG Dave Rossman — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 23:47:35 -0400

Might get a few bought for you

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2016 1:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 13:24:24 -0400

Well seeing how chapter 4-1 in AR 670-1 says your not supposed be to be wearing the ACU in a establishment were the consumption of alcohol is the primary focus all of them are wrong....but you know how it is

Response by SGT Carl Stewart made Feb 13 at 2017 8:18 AM

SGT Carl Stewart — Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:18:08 -0500

I experienced this on Saturday night. It clearly states it in the UCMJ that the wear of the uniform is prohibited while in a bar and drinking. I am a veteran of the army and I served 11 years and in all those years I knew it wasn't allowed unless you are attending a unit function arranged by your unit. This guy was the only one there in uniform and in my opinion I am quite sure the guy was a fraud or he may have known that what he was doing was wrong, either that or he has never been to combat and was out looking for attention. On that note I made sure he heard my thoughts that evening..

Response by SGT Jim Arnold made Jul 2 at 2017 6:08 PM

SGT Jim Arnold — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 18:08:55 -0400

my train of thought is if I wanted to go out and have a beer or a shot or 2 then I need to change into civilian attire.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2017 6:09 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 18:09:48 -0400

Our job is to leave smoking craters filled with the bloody, mangled bodies of our enemies. As long as we're not making bloody mangled bodies of ourselves after drinking, get slammed. This NCO will enforce the standards, but this is his personal opinion.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2017 6:47 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 18:47:21 -0400

Shouldn't they not be in a place of which true purpose is to sell alcoholic beverages? If I the rest of the army can't than why can they?

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 2 at 2017 7:18 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 19:18:15 -0400

I have a picture on my son and his buddies on the flight out of Afghanastan stopping in Germany. A little airport bar dressed up to look like a Bavarian Beer hall, they were having a huge liter mug of beer it looks like. I didn't think anything of it except looking at a table of very tired very happy soldiers and airmen happy to be out of that shit hole.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2017 8:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 20:58:58 -0400

extremely unprofessional ......
I could see a beer or two while at a base club.

but NEVER out in the civilian world...
Doing that only serves to give the impression,
that we in the military drink while "on duty"

Response by PV2 Chris Grice made Jul 3 at 2017 12:48 AM

PV2 Chris Grice — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 00:48:20 -0400

Woah full stop this is a no go at this station while I was in ar 670-1 said no dice we were not allowed to wear our uniforms into establishments like that

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Jul 3 at 2017 2:53 AM

SSgt Michael Cox — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 02:53:40 -0400

At the club on base is one thing after a night of work. Off base they are out of regs as the uniform is not meant to be worn at a bar. A fast food restaurant for lunch or dinner sure if you are going back to work. Grocery shopping on the way home really fast sure. But not a fucking bar that is what civilian attire is for.

Response by 1SG George Gaither made Jul 3 at 2017 6:37 AM

1SG George Gaither — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 06:37:47 -0400

A utility uniform is now a combat uniform?

Response by CPO Curt Kuhn made Jul 3 at 2017 8:48 AM

CPO Curt Kuhn — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:48:53 -0400

If this were the case in the Navy and you banned drinking, there would have been no Navy

Response by Cpl Dirk Freeman made Jul 3 at 2017 1:55 PM

Cpl Dirk Freeman — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 13:55:11 -0400

It's the army

Response by 1SG Donald David made Jul 25 at 2017 10:48 PM

1SG Donald David — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:48:01 -0400

If you are on base why not.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2017 11:12 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:12:37 -0400

Everything is about perception these days...from socialization, to EO, to leadership in general and the list goes on. There are always eyes on you, whether you think it or not. Even when you think your doing the right thing in your mind, someone else may percieve it as wrong in theirs.

Thats the bad thing about technology these days, whether it is pictures or texts. You always leave it up to interpretation.

Response by CPL Danny Davis made Nov 20 at 2018 11:17 PM

CPL Danny Davis — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 23:17:22 -0500

Well according to AR670-1 a soldier in uniform may only purchase alcohol in a packaged state but never consume alcoholic beverages at a bar setting in uniform.

Response by CPL Danny Davis made Nov 21 at 2018 12:08 AM

CPL Danny Davis — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:08:30 -0500

Under the new AR 670-1, Soldiers traveling commercially on official business are authorized to wear the Army Combat Uniform, or ACU. ... Soldiers wearing their uniform may enter a liquor store to purchase package liquor, for instance. They may not, however, wear their uniform while drinking in a bar.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Nov 21 at 2018 7:03 AM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 07:03:04 -0500

In one of my units, every squad had a mini fridge, stocked with crappy beer. Everyone (21 and older) had to pay for the beer, but generally, only those with Tabs drank it. Usually they would start to unwind with beer when we knew all that was left for the day was pointless sitting around for a couple of hours. This was usually accompanied by our squad playing "Bird is the Word" loud enough for the entire company to hear it, on a loop. Once or twice the TLs all got so hammered by the time we were released that they called their wives and told them they had to unexpectedly work overnight. Oh yeah, other squad leaders would raid our fridge if they were getting low on beer in their own cage.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Nov 21 at 2018 9:26 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 09:26:33 -0500

more then a single mixed drink or beer is just asking for trouble.

Response by SrA James Cannon made Mar 5 at 2019 4:03 PM

SrA James Cannon — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 16:03:41 -0500

As long as it is done responsibly, I don't see a problem with it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2019 3:51 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jul 2019 03:51:35 -0400

NO go.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Dec 7 at 2019 5:37 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 17:37:51 -0500

Depends on if it is a unit event on base/off base or if you are off duty on your way home stopping for a drink with a meal. If you are at lets say a Promotion celebration one or two beers/shots are fine as long as you don't act an ass, say inappropriate things to other Soldiers/Officers or you rater. Off base on your way home with your dinner is another thing, Drinking and driving has always been a very big thing and a big NO-NO. Besides nobody should be going out for a night of bar hopping in uniform anyway. Many a career and lives have been lost to stupidity drinking in uniform. I can speak from personal experiences for another time that Drinking in or out of uniform and doing stupid stuff is not conducive to keeping your rank, getting promoted further, holding on to personal property and money as well as damaging to your careers and reputation. If you can't go about without drinking in uniform you have bigger issues to worry about.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 17 at 2020 1:37 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:37:13 -0400

ON Post in a All Ranks or Service Club...Not a good Idea
OFF Post in any public establishment... It can devolve into "Conduct to bring discredit upon the service"
Soldiers, especially Senior NCOs and from the insignia of the example photo in the Recruiting or Career Counselor Fields are in the public eye. A misperception could severely damage their ability to perform the mission and could destroy the reputation that the USAREC personnel have in a certain geographic area.
It appears that it was just friends having a good time, Awesome, BUT if I were the Station Commander, NOT IN UNIFORM would be the hard fast rule.

Response by SPC Bob Taber made Jun 26 at 2021 5:12 PM

SPC Bob Taber — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:12:56 -0400

Their was a time when you did not go out in public in your anything other than your dress uniform.

Response by PO3 David Davis made Jun 26 at 2021 5:21 PM

PO3 David Davis — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:21:21 -0400

Are they on or off base? On base no problem. off base have a Dress uniform i say no problem.

Response by MSgt Chandos Clapper made Jun 26 at 2021 5:39 PM

MSgt Chandos Clapper — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:39:25 -0400

When I joined in 1977 we were expected to be at the NCO Club every Friday to show our support to MWR! Times have certainly changed.

Response by SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott made Jun 27 at 2021 8:06 PM

SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 20:06:52 -0400

Disgraceful!!