During the draft period, what happened to conscripted members who could not make it past the initial training?

MAJ Vance Fleming — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 05:26:10 -0500

In an all-volunteer military, there are a certain amount of recruits who just do not make it through basic or the job-specific (AFSC, MOS, whatever the Navy and USMC calls it) training. They are discharged for failure to adapt or to meet standards.

What would have happened to these conscripted members who were unable to meet the minimal standards? Were they just pushed through the system after the training was "presented" to them without having to prove they could actually do the job? Would they have been honorably discharged?

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Feb 17 at 2020 5:33 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 05:33:19 -0500

"Alternative Service Employer Network
In any return to conscription the Director of Selective Service is responsible for finding alternative civilian work for registrants who have been exempted from military service and training because of conscientious objection to both combatant and noncombatant military service. The Director will place these registrants with members of the Alternative Service Employer Network (ASEN), a pool of eligible civilian employers who agree to provide jobs to Alternative Service Workers (ASWs) in a draft. The work offered by these employers must contribute to the maintenance of the national health, safety, or interest."

If they fail willingly then it becomes a military justice issue.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Feb 17 at 2020 6:45 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 06:45:34 -0500

First thing is that the classification system was designed to weed out those that couldn't perform because of obvious physical or mental conditions, the designation 4F was for those deemed unfit. If you actually made it to the painted feet, the standards were completely different. From my observation of the remains of the Draft Army when I came in and anecdotally from those that served during the period, there just weren't many standards for the draftees. Couldn't pass PT? You will get in shape in Vietnam. Overweight? Not a problem. A marine friend that is a bit older than I am that served in Marine Infantry claimed that half of his platoon wouldn't have passed the IQ test required today (1966/67 time frame). While I am of the opinion that we put out people that with a bit of motivation would be acceptable soldiers today, the reason for the standards we have today was the Cluster**** that the Vietnam Draft made of the services.

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Feb 17 at 2020 8:24 AM

LTC Eugene Chu — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 08:24:00 -0500

History lesson from Vietnam War was Project 100,000. As mentioned by others, our military lowered standards for English proficiency, conduct and intellect in order to draft previously unqualified personnel. Some managed to beat the odds and succeed, but many also died in combat based on ineptitude

https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/story-behind-mcnamaras-morons

Project 100,000: The Vietnam War's cruel experiment on American soldiers

Military recruits are supposed to be assessed to see whether they're fit for service. What happens when they're not?

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Feb 17 at 2020 10:24 AM

SGT Philip Roncari — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 10:24:53 -0500

I served 1965/68 enlisted but with many drafted men during that period,everyone made it through training ,if not the Army had recycling programs which had a small number of personnel fail,these men were returned to civilian life with a general discharge I think,also had experiences with Pres.Johnson’s 100,000 program in Vietnam ,replacements for Infantry units,piss poor decision by the bean counters in my estimation.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2020 1:49 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 13:49:30 -0500

I served from 1968 to 1972. If a recruit was fat they were sent to the fat farm and there was a platoon for attitude reajustment. If they could not hack it, they did not graduate Boot Camp and were discharged.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 18 at 2020 12:07 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 18 Feb 2020 12:07:14 -0500

In the late Vietnam era, draftees mostly went to the Army so I only saw a limited sample in the Air Force. If a new recruit failed to make to through Air Force basic training, then my guess is they were discharged, probably with a General. Tech school was a different matter. If a new Airman Basic or Airman Third couldn't get through a tech school, such as aircraft maintenance, then the Air Force tried to reclassify them to a different tech school that better suited their capabilities and the needs of the Air Force. Failing that they were also discharged, normally a General discharge. A few "bad apples" who had recurring encounters with law enforcement or other bad behaviors were discharged with a General/less-than-honorable or sometimes court martialed and sent home with a Bad Conduct Discharge (if they avoided confinement). For a short period of time in the 1970s I think the Air Force accepted recruits who didn't make the minimum scores to enter the Service. They set up remedial reading, writing, and math classes for these folks and worked to bring them up to minimum standards before they went to training.

Officers did sometimes fail to complete their training. I saw pilot trainees who couldn't hack the flying transferred to navigator training (if they were doing well in the classroom) or to other schools so they could complete their service commitment. Don't know what happened if an officer failed in some other school. Perhaps also a General discharge.

Response by CSM Thomas Ray made Feb 24 at 2020 8:56 AM

CSM Thomas Ray — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:56:49 -0500

During this period a lot of recruits were recycled again and again, until they met the standards, pretty much if you got drafted, you would serve. I had a soldier on my team in Viet Nam that could not even read; I would read his letters from home to him. He enlisted after he was told the Army would teach him to read and write.

Response by CPO Paul Klein made Feb 24 at 2020 11:06 AM

CPO Paul Klein — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 11:06:37 -0500

I enlisted rather than be drafted. In the draft lottery, my birthday was number 7. During boot camp, we had several individuals that would have been rejected in today’s service. One was a very large individual, not quite sure why the Navy accepted him, but he had a very positive attitude. He worked hard to make it through boot camp, but had trouble understanding simple things, like left from right, etc. He pushed himself really hard, but was discharged after 4 weeks as unfit for naval service. A few weeks into electronics A school, I received a letter from his mom, thanking me and a couple of others who had tried to help him. She said he received his draft notice and reported to the Army a week after his Navy discharge. He died in VietNam three weeks after he arrived there. His mom said he was always slow, and always big. Not sure how he was passed through basic training, but was really sad to hear of his passing.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Feb 24 at 2020 3:48 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 15:48:33 -0500

Some received a General Discharge although under Honorable conditions WASN'T an Honorable discharge. There were different reasons for separation but in those cases they were deemed unfit for Military service even though they had been on active duty. Most had never made it through training but not all the reasons are the same any more than all the people being the same.

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made Feb 24 at 2020 10:22 PM

Cpl Gabriel F. — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 22:22:06 -0500

Marine Corps recruit training Parris Island rejected recruit trainees after a punishing 6 months in most cases. General Conduct discharge or General with a medical for injuries and mental problems. Getting dropped from a platoon was the beginning of a very bad time for "the maggot"s. Brig, correctional custody, crap details for sick, lame, crazy. Observed some painting with leg and arm casts once marching through third battalion area.
Early one Sunday morning a large block formation marched across the parade deck towards the old brick PX area. On their return they were in civilian clothes marching in the direction of the gate road. We were cleaning and not supposed to look out of the windows but we did. Scuttlebutt from a pick up had it they boarded buses out of site of first battalion area. The pickup had been recycled for three months before joining our training platoon.