Posted on Feb 17, 2020
During the draft period, what happened to conscripted members who could not make it past the initial training?
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In an all-volunteer military, there are a certain amount of recruits who just do not make it through basic or the job-specific (AFSC, MOS, whatever the Navy and USMC calls it) training. They are discharged for failure to adapt or to meet standards.
What would have happened to these conscripted members who were unable to meet the minimal standards? Were they just pushed through the system after the training was "presented" to them without having to prove they could actually do the job? Would they have been honorably discharged?
What would have happened to these conscripted members who were unable to meet the minimal standards? Were they just pushed through the system after the training was "presented" to them without having to prove they could actually do the job? Would they have been honorably discharged?
Selective Service (the Draft)
Failure
Training
Discharge
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 10
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First thing is that the classification system was designed to weed out those that couldn't perform because of obvious physical or mental conditions, the designation 4F was for those deemed unfit. If you actually made it to the painted feet, the standards were completely different. From my observation of the remains of the Draft Army when I came in and anecdotally from those that served during the period, there just weren't many standards for the draftees. Couldn't pass PT? You will get in shape in Vietnam. Overweight? Not a problem. A marine friend that is a bit older than I am that served in Marine Infantry claimed that half of his platoon wouldn't have passed the IQ test required today (1966/67 time frame). While I am of the opinion that we put out people that with a bit of motivation would be acceptable soldiers today, the reason for the standards we have today was the Cluster**** that the Vietnam Draft made of the services.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
MAJ Byron Oyler - I've seem people that had real problem passing written exams but actually could do everything but didn't get promoted and in the current system forced out of the service. It seems the ability to pass exams is a major a criteria to be promoted and if You aren't promoted in a certain time period out You go. With officers, passed over three times and out You go. There are however people that didn't even have the mental capacity to be there in the first place. There usually is a level for some people beyond which they can't pass.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
MAJ Byron Oyler - The problem was that this group brought a load of additional problems, from drugs, to behavior and crime. The Army was just getting to the end of the clean up after the draft era when I enlisted and the results of the Draft Army and especially that part of the Draft Army were still evident. Talking to the people that went through that period from the Vietnam draw down to the 1980 election, it wasn't a pretty time to be in the service.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SPC Richard Zacke - He would not be getting Majors pay while a SSG in the regular Army, but if he had ten years as an Officer, he would retire at his highest rank and pay level.
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SPC Richard Zacke
CPT Lawrence Cable Just going by what SSG Hutenstein told us. We were young pups he took under his wing. But thanks for the info.
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History lesson from Vietnam War was Project 100,000. As mentioned by others, our military lowered standards for English proficiency, conduct and intellect in order to draft previously unqualified personnel. Some managed to beat the odds and succeed, but many also died in combat based on ineptitude
https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/story-behind-mcnamaras-morons
https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/story-behind-mcnamaras-morons
Project 100,000: The Vietnam War's cruel experiment on American soldiers
Military recruits are supposed to be assessed to see whether they're fit for service. What happens when they're not?
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MAJ Vance Fleming
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing because I did not know about this program. I have spent more time studying and writing about WWI - Korea.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
In some wars and battles leadership was almost instantly decimated. This is a compelling reason for all soldiers to know the mission of the unit and higher. Commander's Intent is crucial.
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LTC Eugene Chu
MAJ Ken Landgren - Even if soldiers know, issue is if they can comprehend. Some of the Project 100,000 draftees had weak language skills or were even illiterate.
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I served 1965/68 enlisted but with many drafted men during that period,everyone made it through training ,if not the Army had recycling programs which had a small number of personnel fail,these men were returned to civilian life with a general discharge I think,also had experiences with Pres.Johnson’s 100,000 program in Vietnam ,replacements for Infantry units,piss poor decision by the bean counters in my estimation.
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