During your transition from Soldier to Civilian, what were the biggest differences between your expectations and reality?

SFC Jason Evans — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:01:33 -0400

A question for those who were in the military:
During your transition from Soldier to Civilian, what were the biggest differences between your expectations and reality? Or did everything go down exactly how you expected?

One thing that varied from my expectations: I expected everyone at my civilian job to act like adults. I figured those who didn't adult would be let go. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 16 at 2018 4:03 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:03:06 -0400

I thought retirement would be nice to enjoy. I feel so empty now.

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Sep 16 at 2018 4:06 PM

LTC Stephan Porter — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:06:40 -0400

I’ll let you know in about eight months!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 4:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:15:06 -0400

1. Being qualified for the job and/or being able to have a competent discussion with someone in that position about expected tasks doesn't matter more than an internal reference.
2. It's not what you know that matters as much as how you've applied it to an organization.
3. Respect is rare.
Let me know if you'd like more.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Sep 16 at 2018 4:38 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:38:50 -0400

The civilian world makes fun of our dedication to mission because a lot of them don't want to do the job!

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 16 at 2018 4:45 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:45:32 -0400

The biggest difference I noticed was going from OPTEMPO to Manana Time. Even with a Navy civilian organization, I had to recalibrate my expectation level. Then I had to switch back and forth doing the reserve ADSWs and recalls. Best I can describe it is the difference between a healthy jog and a steady walk. Second thing was the MIL leadership didn't quite know how to handle me as I was senior to everyone MIL rank wise. So I just did the job and the front office benefited from my insights keeping the pulse on the CIV side of the house. Worked well. First names behind closed doors, formal outside. Never compromised a private discussion. The GS-14/15 levels were pretty much comparable to the MIL rank anyways.

Response by SPC John Tesh II made Sep 16 at 2018 5:04 PM

SPC John Tesh II — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:04:56 -0400

As someone who was booted due to being overweight, my transition felt very rushed. I have been fighting for years to get back in as I am just not civilian material. I have only managed to hold 2 jobs because employers don't like my military attitude. I have lost many friends because I feel adults should be adults and quit acting childish. But here I continue to sit, 3 degrees, 2 career changes and a broken body and mind and no end in sight to this misery of not being with my comrades.

Sorry rant over.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 5:27 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:27:39 -0400

SFC Jason Evans I had a good plan in place and everything worked according to plan. Two observations: In college, I expected folks to be there that wanted to obtain a degree. Instead, I found many folks that were there to have fun and party. I was also working full time, and was strictly focused on my degree plan. I was discharged in 1972, so I also encountered folks that did not like the military and veterans. Also, as you observed, I encountered many co-workers that did not have my work ethic which was unsettling.

Response by SFC Jerry Humphries made Sep 16 at 2018 6:01 PM

SFC Jerry Humphries — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:01:53 -0400

Being expected to pay my dues’ by those who never paid theirs.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Sep 16 at 2018 6:13 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:13:35 -0400

It went as expected. It was actually easier than expected. As the Army had higher standards than the civilian job that I moved into.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Sep 16 at 2018 7:48 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 19:48:04 -0400

So I wouldn't get disappointed thru my transition, I didn't really set my sights too high...of course, that alone led to disappointment. I try not to look back and compare. At my current job, I work hard, no matter who's looking.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 8:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 20:39:46 -0400

I was going to be an internet bazillionaire. Didn't happen - 30% unrealistic expectations, 20% didn't try hard enough, and 50% loss of focus when distracted by life events. Number 1 lesson learned: Take your GI Bill and go get a degree immediately! Immediately. Also, immediately. I agree with anyone who complains about college degrees being overrated by corporate America - however, if you want to get good jobs without having to fight tooth-and-nail for them, then get a college degree.

Also, I was frustrated during my service with some of the small, inconsequential-but-irritating things that came down from high above in the Army - everything from obsessions with earplug cases and reflective PT belts to ideas that just didn't make sense. I had the impression that since the civilian world was so wealthy (this was the 90s), apparently so happy, and moving along rapidly (again, the 90s), that they just HAD to be smarter than we were.

They're not.

Be prepared to mutter to yourself, "You've got to f---- kidding me," from time to time. I expected everything to be well-oiled, high-speed low-drag, with common sense ruling the day and everybody just getting rich. That's not reality. But you can earn a good living.

Also, anyone coming off active duty is probably used to dealing with folks who understand simple things like how to brief people, how to supervise or manage a collective action of some sort, and the necessity of someone being ultimately responsible for getting something done. The civilian corporate world is peopled by folks who have never, ever, ever come in contact with anything like troop leading procedures or brief-backs or in-depth discussions of leadership. Things are very loose by comparison to the active duty Army. Some companies embrace management fads that seem to distribute responsibility in as ambiguous and ethereal a manner as possible. However, this varies by company and industry (and I've seen it change slightly inside a company over time).

The most important thing I could have done would have been to have gotten a degree immediately upon leaving the regular Army. Now, you can get one online. I got mine through UMUC. A Soldier could start on that while they're still on active duty, though I think the Army should set up a special program that accommodates the chaotic schedules of some units. A degree in an industry-relevant, in-demand field (read STEM, by the way), is critically important.

Response by PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster made Sep 17 at 2018 1:20 AM

PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 01:20:59 -0400

Wanted to get a degree, but NO schools have Large Font text or Braille Textbooks where I live and been told I can't return for a degree cause I will lose my benefits from the VA (Compensation wise) AND at times, it's just feeling useless-can't drive, see single visioned and noone will hire me cause of my sight issues so---just feel lost and docs at the VA are trying to help, but it's not going good.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 17 at 2018 6:12 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 06:12:39 -0400

The proffesiin peace was easy and according to plan. The word professional is what was eluded in the process. Many civilians are not professional, dedicated and loyal. Nor do their managers know how toborooerky motivate them to the organizations cause. There are many that are professional but not like the military, so it can be frustrating.

On th eoersonal side I was not ready for the downtime as I worked 24/7 for sooooo many years. It affects many aspects of your life. Find a hobby, ensure your family is ready too, as they are now in unfamiliar territory as well. It can and will affect the entire family unit. Thank you all for your service.

Response by SGT Denny Espinosa made Sep 17 at 2018 11:19 AM

SGT Denny Espinosa — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:19:05 -0400

I had a great deal of medical knowledge, training and experience when I got out so I decided I would work as a nurse while going for a medical degree. All my knowledge, training, and experience (ER, OR, surgical intensive care, anesthesiology, etc.) mean nothing in California and would have to retake all classes from scratch. Years worth. Discouraged, I said "no" and made my hobby (computers) my profession.

Response by COL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2018 2:49 PM

COL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:49:18 -0400

My biggest issue when I was in the civilian world was, in my experience, was the total lack of integrity, honor or honesty. The vast majority of civilians I worked with (in a corporate environment) would screw you in heartbeat if it would make them look better. I could not get back on active duty fast enough. I have run across a handful in the military that were like this, but it is the exception in military rather than the rule as it is in the civilian world.

Response by MSgt Alejandro Hernandez (RETIRED) made Oct 1 at 2018 6:52 PM

MSgt Alejandro Hernandez (RETIRED) — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:52:32 -0400

Being a civilian now gives me the creeps. It's like a skin I cant shed.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Oct 3 at 2018 12:35 PM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Wed, 03 Oct 2018 12:35:13 -0400

expectations finding a job but reality hard to find a career out there.

Response by SSG Lonny Self made Oct 11 at 2018 5:02 PM

SSG Lonny Self — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 17:02:02 -0400

I found that my military training in a lot of areas of my military job did not always transition into the civilian workplace and found that a lot of times I was thinking federal not state but at the time I was let out of the service as it was a completely different world as it is now, computer age was just getting started and there where opportunity, I am a water treatment or if you like an engineering supply NCO as I like to call it because of a change in tasking from engineers to supply in the mid 80 found my self-being a supply NCO more than water treatment NCO I was transitioned from missels I started my career as a radar tech for Nike Hercules air defense system, but when I came back from Germany there where no slots for patriot at that time and other systems where still in research mode so I worked for the army DARPA program at white sands for a few before I changed over to water that was good times worked on a project called sergeant york for a bit then it was scrapped , but where I am going with this is I had a lot of hats then that made it some much easier to make it out here so never say never is my modow , I was in school and taking my civilain collage class to become a waste water op when I got the ax after gulf one , witch was good becuase the state of wa at the time did not do cross resiprecal licensing , they did not even want to take any of the epa training certs I had and the best part was I had top secret clearance at the time and had water skills they had know idea of yet LOL. but it got their attention a few years later when they where thinking of building a new plant and found I had the skills to run there new system let alone design it, hope that helps

Response by LTC George Morgan made Oct 17 at 2018 1:02 PM

LTC George Morgan — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:02:01 -0400

A Lack of discipline and organisation I found the most difficult aspect to absorb and convert down for a short period, especially following on from s Senor Commission position.
In Military life you say "Get it done" and it happens, In Civvie life you say "Get it done" and the response is basically: "Yea, we'll get to it sometime". This is where "Come to Jesus Experience Re-finds its Basis!" Let it drop once and you've lost your authority! Your staff must know who is the Boss, that does not mean you've got to around shouting orders, au contrare, compromise and adjust and the biggest help: Get to know their family and inquire as to their welfare when the situation is appropriate.
Further, civvies are unaccustomed to end of day meetings to inform them as to what has to happen tomorrow. They are used to Punch a Card and leave! Which way you go on this defines your presence and position! Take your pick and Good Luck!

Response by CWO3 Warren Gaudreau made Oct 19 at 2018 9:07 AM

CWO3 Warren Gaudreau — Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:07:51 -0400

Chain of command is an unknown concept. often,there is no accountability for disrespect.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Oct 21 at 2018 9:51 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 21:51:50 -0400

The biggest "Headache" every transitioning service member has is remembering to "STOP",,, We were taught to reach above and beyond what our 'military training' started us at. It didn't matter where our skill set said we where; it is where our supervisors pushed us to, E-4 performing as E-6's, E-6's as PLT LDRs, Officers doing the same always reaching and performing above and beyond... However:

In the civilian world, that same drive we have is now governed by a different set of rules that require time and money for "higher" edgamacation, a slip of "Vellum" that says you've been "skueld' by a "Civy skuel" and can now perform 'dis an dat' even though you could before, you just didn't have the paper to prove it.

Ain't it nice to be out of uniform and to realize that all you've been trained to do for Uncle Sam ain't worth the DD214 it's written on.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made Oct 23 at 2018 2:30 PM

PO2 Louis Fattrusso — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:30:11 -0400

Trying to re-establish a routine

Response by SPC Jason Herrera made Oct 25 at 2018 5:08 PM

SPC Jason Herrera — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 17:08:00 -0400

I did not expect people to discount my time in service and that the benefits earned from my service were undeserved. I am now a GS with the Navy so there is not so much of that anymore.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Oct 29 at 2018 3:04 PM

LTC John Griscom — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 15:04:08 -0400

I was very fortunate when I left active duty. Signed out of my unit on Sunday and started to work on Monday as a Department of the Army civilian. It was some what of a promotion as I moved from company-grade quarters to field-grade quarters. Reality exceeded expectations because my new boss was a great mentor in the new job and an asset in the transition.

Response by MAJ Vic Artiga made Oct 30 at 2018 1:15 PM

MAJ Vic Artiga — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 13:15:39 -0400

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY was impressed I had been a field artillery officer. I would go to job interview and people would give me a blank stare when I said I was a reconnaissance and survey officer. Very few even knew what the artillery was. I had to constantly avoid using Army jargon and had to change the way I wrote e-mails.

Response by Sgt Robert Woods made Nov 4 at 2018 3:54 PM

Sgt Robert Woods — Sun, 04 Nov 2018 15:54:41 -0500

My plan worked out without a blemish on paper, but it took a lot of time, preparation, patience, and commitment.

The most disheartening thing for me was that I thought since I had a degree when I got out I’d have more leverage. That wasn’t the case. I was offered minimum wage positions after meeting for management positions. Overall, hiring managers want to see verified experience coupled with a willingness to learn.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2018 5:53 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 05:53:39 -0500

The popular media has painted all veterans as being psychotic (or at the least sociopaths) sufferers of dissociative PTSD. Civilians (most of whom) have difficulty separating truth from fiction have actually become afraid of us. At a recent psych CME, the presenter stated with absolute certainty that 50%+ of all military personnel and veterans suffer from an anti-social personality disorder. I questioned his contention and after lunch everyone had moved away from from me.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2018 3:13 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Nov 2018 15:13:58 -0500

The job hunt during transition was a real eye-opener for me. I was a Major in the Information Technology field, supervising 130 people. I had just left Fort Huachuca for Phoenix, AZ - the 6th largest city in the country. I thought finding my post-military career would be a piece of cake. I spent two months job hunting in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area before figuring out that I had no civilian network. I had not found the "doorman" that could get my resume inside. I ended up taking a contract project manager position without benefits in Plano, TX. That was in the late Summer/early Fall of 2016.

Points of learning:
1. Build a network outside the military. About 75%-80% of my LinkedIn network were military people when I started my transition. They were not in a position to help me.
2. Be flexible - go where the jobs are. I initially set my sights on Phoenix and used my retirement move to get there. I opened up my job search nation-wide about six weeks into my transition and moved at personal expense to Plano, TX.
3. "Civilianize" your resume and LinkedIn profile. Do not assume civilians know all the abbreviations the military uses. Only about 6% of the American population are Veterans or currently serving. You have to play to the 94% that don't have a clue what happens "behind the curtain."
4. About 95% of hiring recruiters use LinkedIn. Become an expert. Make sure your LinkedIn profile tells people what you want to be when you transition out of the military. Make sure it compliments your resume.
5. For job seekers, there's no such thing as an interview. Everything is a conversation or discussion. Never think of a discussion with a hiring manager as an interview - you will feel a lot less nervous about your conversations by changing your thinking.
6. Pay it forward. I volunteer my time as requested doing LinkedIn reviews and critiques for anyone who connects with me on LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/in/wfrobe) and asks for a review. I also connect those people with recruiters in my network. I want future Veterans to have a smoother transition road than I had.

Bonus: join the Veteran Mentors Network on LinkedIn and consider using http://www.veterati.com to find mentors. Both are free.

wfrobe)

Response by SFC Regina Boyd made Nov 16 at 2018 4:01 PM

SFC Regina Boyd — Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:01:50 -0500

Civilian "life" is 180 degrees from military "life," especially in the work arena. It was quite a transition that took several years to "sink in." In the Army, it's "counseling;" in the civilian world, it's "coaching." Many states have "at will" employment, which means they can let you go for any (or no) reason. You'll see.

Response by SSG Jesse Garza made Nov 25 at 2018 9:41 PM

SSG Jesse Garza — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 21:41:18 -0500

I agree with u, as an equipment manager for an oilfield company I have tried to set standards but hey its like baby sitting a bunch of kids. Its not the same

Response by PO2 Daryl Castona made Nov 27 at 2018 10:56 AM

PO2 Daryl Castona — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:56:06 -0500

I see a lot of denigration of civilians and their sense of purpose/mission. Either you are working for the wrong companies or your expectations are warped. I have worked for several good companies and have met good/great people in all of them as well as some that were less desirable. Very similar to my military experiences. I have worked for companies with a sense of mission as good or greater than the military (UPS, Lear Corporation, IAC and SCA Paper to name names). These are world class organizations with dedicated staff. These companies have helped me develop, trained me and offered me opportunities that would have never been available to me in the military.

Maybe you need to look within and your dedication to that company. If it is lacking, try another there is low unemployment. You could always go back to service if that is your niche.