E-4 in charge, but not in a "leadership position"

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 20:46:38 -0500

So when I was coming up (granted I haven't gotten far, but if you see my DOR, you can see I've been around a while), when an NCO put someone senior to me in charge, it usually came with some kind of warning (spoken or implied), that s/he had the authority of that NCO; not to mention that I was taught, as long as it's not illegal, do what you're told by your NCO, without asking questions.

So, I have to ask, as someone who often finds him/herself in the position of being "in charge" without being the "first-line" supervisor (even though I am senior under our "first-line"), how do you deal with all of the questions when you give instructions to your subordinates, or when you try to teach them something and they seem to have better things to do than pay attention to you?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 8:59 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 20:59:35 -0500

I'm going to assume you are all peers in the situation. In the Marines we have a saying "Billet over Rank." Make it clear that you are in charge but like SSG Ryan R said you need to be clearer with your instructions and the their intent.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Nov 5 at 2015 9:05 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 21:05:13 -0500

(If I read your question correctly,)There are plenty of times where subordinate-ranked members are "in charge." Here's some examples: PMI's oversaw the rifle & pistol ranges. They worked in concert with the RSO's. The SgtMaj --He "owned" the parade decks... and directed all the officers who marched about. We had a SSgt who was our "resident" NBC NCO --He was in charge of the gas chamber and training of both the CO & XO. I worked with a Cpl who was my "truck-master" --He oversaw maintenance & records on all our vehicles. These weren't leadership positions, per se, but everyone reported to these people. Bottom line: Respect the billet as much as the rank.

Regarding the inattentive subordinates: Well, that's a "leadership challenge."

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 9:45 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 21:45:42 -0500

If you figure it out let me know. I was placed in the Company Operations NCO slot as a SPC, and had to deal with trying to get officers and NCO's to do their job, so that I could do mine. I never did figure out how to tell a Major that it was not acceptable to turn in reports two days late (we were on a 24 hour reporting cycle) or not at all, without him ending up in my office complaining about being "told what to do by a SPC". Another one of the reasons why I'm on my way out; I can handle the whole egotistical rank structure, up until it impedes getting work done...

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Nov 5 at 2015 9:51 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 21:51:35 -0500

SPC Matthew Birkinbine You refer to your DOR, your profile does not reflect any DOR unless my iPad is slow again? Do you play poker?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 10:02 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 22:02:13 -0500

I have the same problem at times, but with me it's that "mom" and "dad" don't talk so I get jumped on for doing something and then turn around for not doing the same thing. The guys below me actually have my back with this stuff.
But to answer your question how I normally deal with the recalcitrant Joe is one of two things; I say "why don't WE do this?" And follow through on that "we" part. And the other is I threaten them with paperwork... Cause I am evil like that.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Nov 5 at 2015 10:14 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 22:14:19 -0500

Don't be "wishy-washy". Be confident. If someone is not paying attention, bring attention to them. Act like a leader. Lead by example. On a side note, the Army needs to get rid of the SPC rank, it's useless.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 6 at 2015 12:18 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 00:18:27 -0500

Leadership has no bearing on rank sometimes an E1 is a better leader than anyone else in your particular unit

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 1:04 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 01:04:33 -0500

I'm a Navy Warrant but I often explain to people why we are doing something. Not because I necessarily feel I need to, but because I believe if Sailors know why they are doing something it helps them understand the bigger picture.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 2:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 02:35:08 -0500

So, we've all heard the phrase a new Army! Some subordinates had excellent critical thinking skills. Sometimes these Soldier want to know because they want to consider all aspects, thinking of second and third order effects, while you may be concentrating accomplishing the mission, they may be asking more questions and requiring more based on past experiences with dealing with you in charge. Not saying you are not a good leader, but just like it's different leadership styles it's different subordinate styles. Don't take offense show them that you are a critical thinker and that you have considered the big picture and the questions will dwindle

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 5:56 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 05:56:59 -0500

First, are your duties specified or implied? If your supervisor has given you this authoritative position s/he should put it in writing ( counseling) and inform the junior Soldiers who falls in their the chain of command. Once this is conveyed, you should ensure that you are properly counseling the Soldiers for not following orders and elevate issues as needed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 9:55 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:55:09 -0500

When in charge, be in charge. If your "peers" don't like that, then that is their problem.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 24 at 2015 11:25 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:25:10 -0500

Sounds like you are or have been placed in a leadership position on several occasions. 2 things stick out to me # 1 if not are you promotable? # 2 If you leadership places you in charge often, recommendation for a lateral promotion to Corporal should be put in place. I was latterly promoted to Corporal during Desert Storm because I was placed in a Squad Leaders position. I was also promotable at the time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 1:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:26:47 -0500

1. Get promoted. E-4 down to E-1 have a hard time following instructions from fellow lower enlisted.
2. If you are put in those roles constantly then it might be time to stop hanging out and chilling with the Soldiers. They see u as a homeboy and not as a person in charge

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 10 at 2015 4:17 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:17:43 -0500

I want to say leaders tend to recognize who the rising stars are.