Enforcing ALL standards from the TOP-DOWN.

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 05:26:53 -0500

Obviously this isn't across the board and there are Officers who always
do the right thing and NCO's who don't, but NCO's are expected to
enforce ALL standards while watching Officers (Especially Warrants) do what they want. When soldiers cross the line we fix them
because that's what the Regulations tell us to enforce. CHAIN OF COMMAND
has implemented these Rules and Regulations. 4 Stars, SecDef etc. So
who are we to NOT do whats right? Why do especially Senior Enlisted and Officers
think it's ok to not salute, or to put their hands in their pockets? Address each other by their First Names? The list goes on and on and we all know what I am talking about. The "small" things which mean more to some than others. I
don't agree with the outdated Regulations and I hate doing it but when I don't enforce one
why enforce the other? My job isn't to take it upon myself and decide which ones
are important and which ones are not and neither is it anyone's job
here. Fact of the matter is that the more juniors see misconduct at ALL levels the more they think they are just as entitled. And even if not the real problem is at this point we are showing them that they have to learn to figure out which rules are right to break and which not. Where does it end? Now I'm not some hard headed "that's the way it has to be" guy who can't think for himself, and I am just as guilty of being the decider of what to enforce but the question remains. Shouldn't the Seniors be leading by example and not use their seniority as a Privilege to break the rules simply because no one checks on them.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2013 8:39 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 08:39:56 -0500

The problem I've seen with enforcing Rules and Regs. is which to enforce and which to not. Too often have I seen seniors to me using certain rules and regs towards us as soldiers to their benefit, clearly ignoring others put in place as a sort of check and balance. I've also seen a lot of hypocrisy in this area as were stressed to follow certain rules, something as easy as showing up early for formation, yet our NCOs can come as late as they please and no word is said to them. If you're going to set a standard, set it across the board, please don't pick and choose.

Response by CPT Laurie H. made Nov 8 at 2013 9:54 AM

CPT Laurie H. — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 09:54:27 -0500

I don't see a problem with the use of first names among officers and senior enlisted. In the office the full time staff and leadership team at my company are all first names and nicknames, almost regardless of rank. It seems to foster a more collaborative work environment, and if it's not in front of the Soldiers, it doesn't have a negative impact on their perception of our professionalism. Once we're on the drill shed floor we use name and rank, the officers occassionally using a first name to address eachother.

Response by SSG Lisa Rendina made Nov 8 at 2013 11:15 AM

SSG Lisa Rendina — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 11:15:48 -0500

I was once reprimanded for calling my Husband (same rank/position level) by his first name during a personal conversation that was overheard by a more Senior NCO. I do not agree that among co-workers that it fosters camaraderie because there are always those who are always addressed by rank and not by first name and it becomes noticeable therefore creating animosity. If it is a private and personal conversation, go ahead. If it is in a professional capacity, use the rank.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2013 11:56 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 11:56:31 -0500

I would love to hear a warrants point of view on hands in pockets, glasses on their head, hair cuts, side burns and 670-1.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2013 1:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:19:16 -0500

It's a funny thing, these military regulations, As if it were up for debate. We all signed a contract when we joined the military. One of the things that we agreed to was following a set of standers and courtesies. Although, I don't really understand some of the rules and regulations placed upon us, it's simply a requirement of us to all uphold and enforce these requirements. It's interesting to me that this is even a question posed, as if we had some sort of say or an opportunity to change these things. As the old saying goes, "it is what it is" and there is nothing we can do about it. This shouldn't even be a question, it's more or less an observation.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Dec 30 at 2013 3:35 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:35:39 -0500

Standards are standards SSG Castle and they need to be enforced.  Now that statement is very easy for me to say to you as a MSG to a SSG.  You would say "Roger that" and move out and execute.  You now know that my emphasis is on enforcing standards.  I believe that is the problem out there in some units/formations/commands.  There is a lack of command emphasis on enforcing standards as a whole.  In my experience, you need to adjust your approach based on your audience when it comes on HOW you enforce those standards, but you should never walk away without correcting a deficiency.  This process becomes very simple when enforcement of standards is a top priority of the command.  If it is not, it almost feels at times like you are the only one out there making the on-the-spot corrections with no "top" support.  That is a lonely place to be, but even in that scenario, we as NCOs still need to carry that torch.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2013 4:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:33:42 -0500

Biggest problem I see is LACK of communication across the ranks. Standards are universal across the board and therefore do not change from command to command. Only differences are supplemental policies set in place by individual units. In my opinion, theres a need for more NCOPDs, LPDs to educate all leaders on standards and how to work together to enforce them as a whole. Also, we need to take a good look at the man/woman in the mirror and ask yourelf 'Do I enforce the standards I am charged to uphold, am I the example?'.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2014 10:26 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:26:01 -0400

I agree SSG Castle. As a "buck" sergeant myself, I have come across all ranks, be it Junior, same, and Senior to me. I am not beyond correcting a General (as I have before). I use tact, respect, and follow the customs and courtesies we are meant to follow. And I have received a variety of different results. That same General commended me for having the personal courage to correct a high ranking officer. But I've also had Colonels and LTC's tell me not to "push them". I've had Junior enlisted correct themselves after I spoke to them. Some even asked me to help them figure out where they could find these guidelines so they could be in the right, and correct those that need correcting as well. But, again, I've had Junior enlisted bow up to me because I'm not in their support channel. I've witnessed Senior NCOs be "jacked up" along WITH Soldiers junior to them. Attempting to correct these specific NCOs has resulted in requests that they be taken to my command for "insubordination". It is only when I inform them that my Senior NCO in my Support Channel is the Garrison CSM that they change their tone. Perhaps I'm wrong for doing that. But, then again, are they not wrong themselves? It's almost disheartening to personally witness the blatant lack of respect shown by Soldiers these days, of all ranks. But I, like many I have met and observed, take my Creed seriously. I have an amazing amount of pride in the Chevrons I wear. And I say "almost" disheartening, because I will not stop enforcing the standards. I know somewhere down the line that my efforts, as well as those like me, will become infectious.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2014 10:29 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:29:53 -0400

Also, just to emphasis what I mean by lack of respect, just reading some of the responses on this discussion is what I am referring too!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 16 at 2014 10:36 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:36:48 -0400

Generally the word "tact" will get thrown into these conversations, and how junior personnel have to walk on eggshells to correct senior personnel who need correcting.

I seem to have a very different view on the topic of "tact", at least as it pertains to this topic...

If someone makes a blunt correction on you, without "pretty please" on top of every sentence, and you outrank them, frankly that little moment of percieved rudeness is the least of your due penance. They should never have had to make that correction in the first place.

Instead of getting offended, try being ashamed for having to be corrected by your subordinates. Internalize the lesson and go from there, don't just turn it into a dramatic moment. That moment happened because of YOUR error, don't try to defelct it on the person making the correction.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 9:10 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 09:10:54 -0400

I worry about my 3 to 5...If you are out of regs I will tell you. If you try and rip my face off for fixing you...It will just solidify what kind of leader I now know you to be.