Equality? AF PFT standards are extremely different between male and female.

Maj Tyrone Frost — Thu, 28 May 2015 14:57:20 -0400

Before I get hate replies I'm only concerned with the running and sit-up portion of the test. It's a scientific fact that generally men will be bigger and will generally have a bigger waist. Let's not forget that most men will generally have more chest muscles so push-ups aren't really a concern either for equality but the run and sit-up portion of the AF PFT should be the same. Women are required to do a significant amount of sit-ups less than their male counterparts and can run several minutes slower than their male counterparts. Is this fair? Is this equal? I say no, can we change the current inequalities?

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made May 28 at 2015 3:06 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Thu, 28 May 2015 15:06:41 -0400

In my personal experience in High School as a distance runner, I and a couple of my male team-mates always left the extremely fit and motivated female runners in the dust. I'm not sure why they ran slower than we did, but they simply did.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 3:53 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 15:53:24 -0400

Women are entirely different than men.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 4:27 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 16:27:38 -0400

Fair? No. But the Fit 2 Fight Test is a stupid joke that makes no actual sense. The way it is calculated is insane.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 5:17 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 17:17:53 -0400

I don't see the reason for the run to be so lopsided as it is in the Army, As the SGT stated above, our sit-up standards are the same. I can see the push-ups have a gap, maybe not as much but definitely men are stronger in the upper body. I think there needs to be an adjustment in the standards to make them closer as we are all supposed to be treated equally and do the same job.

Response by PO1 Dustin Adams made May 28 at 2015 7:47 PM

PO1 Dustin Adams — Thu, 28 May 2015 19:47:20 -0400

The powers that be have determined that women are equal enough to open combat arms, special operations (Rangers and now SEALs), USMC IOC, etc., why is there still a different standard when it comes to PT testing?

Either there is gender equality or there isn't, there shouldn't be any half-measures, either go all in or leave it as is. Make the body fat-HT/WT and physical fitness standards gender neutral.

Even without opening more combat roles to women, I personally think the standards should at least be closer if not equal.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 28 at 2015 8:36 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 28 May 2015 20:36:22 -0400

Look at the difference in times between the world's best female Marathon runner, and the world's best male Marathon runner.

They aren't comparable.

Women & Men run at different rates because they are "built" differently. Women are generally shorter, have less muscle mass, greater fat content (%), and several other physiological differences, which basically equates to about a 1 minute per mile difference in speed at the High end, more at the Low end.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 29 at 2015 12:47 AM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 29 May 2015 00:47:01 -0400

In 1985... at OCS... physiology was explained as the reason... I have no reason to doubt that.
1. For sit-ups we are the same.... M/F. I get this.
2. For Push-ups the Male (17-21) passing mark (60 points) of 42 is the max level for the females. I get this.
3. The run is equally as diverse. 1536 is 64 points for a male, and max (100) for a woman... I don't get the run disparity.

http://www.apd.army.mil/pub/eforms/pdf/a705.pdf

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made May 29 at 2015 10:44 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Fri, 29 May 2015 10:44:38 -0400

My vote is remove waist measurement, and find "the standard" for the run (walk)/situp/pushup for a military member (regardless of gender) and make that the standard.

Another way of putting it is this.

Same Job = Same Qualifications/Standards.

Response by Maj Tyrone Frost made May 29 at 2015 11:24 AM

Maj Tyrone Frost — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:24:08 -0400

http://www.afpc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110804-054.pdf

Thank you for you replies and inputs.
I wanted to display the disparity by narrowing down the PFT to only the run portion.

The fastest male 1 mile recorded is 3:43.13, the fastest female 1 mile recorded is 4:12.56. We can round that to a thirty second difference. Using the link above you can see the difference regarding run times If we round up a few seconds there is a 3 min difference in run times and that gap get bigger as you get older. So an 18yr old female and a 50yr old male have to finish the run around the same times.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 29 at 2015 11:54 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:54:48 -0400

Since the discussion of opening up direct combat roles to women, the issue is really relative physical fitness standards vs. the fitness standards needed for the job. Currently, PFT standards are based on relative standards. That is, this acknowledges that men and women have different physiological make-up and thus have different standards to make it relatively equal. Now if they are TRULY relatively equal is the crux of your question (not going into one standard for an MOS, as that is a whole different discussion). The hard part is really evaluating if the standards are relatively equal as physiologic difference even within sexes vary widely. IMHO, I think female standards for PUs and the run are a bit more generous than they need to be. Unless we go to MOS driven standards that are gender neutral, I think relative standards are fine, but they need to be tightened up.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made May 29 at 2015 12:56 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:56:14 -0400

Maj Tyrone Frost Glad you brought up the elephant in the room here. I know a lot of people are thinking this as well. Based on the text I received from you this morning with the latest AFD standards report, I do feel that it's out of balance to expect the same run time from an 50 year old male as an 18 year old female.

Response by SGT Jody Trapp made May 29 at 2015 1:36 PM

SGT Jody Trapp — Fri, 29 May 2015 13:36:10 -0400

As female coming up in the ranks I always set my standard to the men's. Regardless of what the army said was my passing score I personally have to reach at least the men's minimum standard. I run a 14 min two mile and I'm pushing 60 reps on the push up. I think that there definitely should be a close in the gap of women and men's standards but we have to personally take it upon ourselves as women in the army to use the men's standard as a goal

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2015 7:20 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 May 2015 07:20:57 -0400

Don't feel bad about the hate replies. I'm on board with what you are saying. I'm tired of hearing that everyone is equal until it comes time to deliver physically.

Response by TSgt David L. made Jun 1 at 2015 4:14 AM

TSgt David L. — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 04:14:40 -0400

I'm hoping to not get hate mail either Maj Tyrone Frost. I'm not saying it's not right, but merely commenting on the topic without trying to pass judgment. Not intentionally at least.

It's always been and will likely always be unequal. It's institutional favoritism through no fault of their (female members) own. The word "Fair" doesn't have any military practicality so the argument can't be made as to the validity of the, or in this case the lack of a standard "standard". Equal work for equal pay...? Not in this case. IMO of course. :p
Flame on!!

Response by SrA Johnathan Kropke made Jun 1 at 2015 9:13 AM

SrA Johnathan Kropke — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 09:13:18 -0400

I think if women want to be treated the same as men in the military then they should meet all the same standards. We all already have to adhere to the same AFI's, same governing regulations, why can't we all adhere to the same PT standards? I do find it funny that some would happily fight for equality everywhere else, but as soon as PT comes up everyone wants it to remain the same.

There is two solutions here, either one raise the women's PT standards to match the men, or drop the men's to match the women's. It is as simple as that.

Response by Daniel Sheridan made Aug 10 at 2022 8:32 AM

Daniel Sheridan — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 08:32:18 -0400

It is not fair at all. Would the police or fire departments hire a 5-foot, 5-inch 125-pound man? I'm 204 pounds. I would rather a 220-pound physically fit firefighter haul my ass down five flights in a fire than a 5-4 120-pound woman give it a try.