Ever heard of a Ghost Gun?

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 16:17:54 -0400

Better yet, ever want to MAKE a Ghost Gun?

Apparently with the right box, my 10 year old could make a "ghost" lower receiver (the track-able portion of a firearm) in a couple of hours with no help from dad.

See Story Here: http://www.wired.com/2015/06/i-made-an-untraceable-ar-15-ghost-gun/

So this leads me to ask this question of my RP Family:

What are YOUR thoughts on this?

I Made an Untraceable AR-15 ‘Ghost Gun’ in My Office—And It Was Easy

I have no technical understanding of firearms and little mastery of power tools. Still, I made a fully functional AR-15.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 4:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 16:20:33 -0400

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 4:21 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 16:21:54 -0400

Prepare to be regulated... HEAVILY

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 4:27 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 16:27:42 -0400

Why yes. Yes I have...

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jun 3 at 2015 5:16 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 17:16:40 -0400

I haven't made a ghost gun AR-15, but have successfully built a "pen gun".

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 3 at 2015 5:16 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 17:16:51 -0400

Nope but using Electronic Warfare techniques I've worked with folks that created Ghost Ships and Ghost Fleets.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jun 3 at 2015 6:16 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 18:16:18 -0400

That's an interesting bit of information but why are we worried about an "untraceable receiver"? The receiver doesn't leave rifling grooves on the projectile. Since those grooves are what make a firearm "traceable", shouldn't we be more concerned with a barrel that can be made this way?

Ok, I get that a firing pin and ejector make distinctive marks on a casing. All that proves is that a particular case was fired from a particular gun. It does NOT link that firearm to a potential crime. For example, I take my trusty 9mm, .380, .44mag, etc to the local gun range. I spend the day blazing away at paper targets and police my brass afterwards. On the way home, I stop at the local Gas 'N Grub, drop a couple casings from my pocket as I exit/enter my vehicle. Later, that GnG gets robbed and a clerk gets shot. Sure, the LEO's may find my brass there but since the ballistics from the round pulled from the clerk doesn't match my firearm, what have we proven other than I stopped for a cold beverage after some range time?

I'm not so concerned about someone making lowers in their garage as I am their ability to possibly fabricate a usable barrel that can't be traced.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 3 at 2015 6:33 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 18:33:35 -0400

Dropping the "Former gun dealer" thing again....

It is COMPLETELY legal to make a Firearm for your own personal use. COMPLETELY LEGAL.

Shocked yet?

You can actually make a AK receiver out of a shovel. It's not that hard.

There is nothing illegal about it. It's cheap, easy to do, and COMPLETELY LEGAL.

The idea of a gun being "untrackable"... well they already are.

Here's how a Federal Gun Trace works.

The police have physical possession of a gun. That's correct, they need possession of the gun to run the trace. They call the ATF who calls MANUFACTURER (known as Point of Origin), who has 24 hours to say who they transferred the weapon to. The PoO looks in their "Bound Book" (a literal book, with a record or where the gun was shipped) and call the ATF back, and say it was transferred to X distributor/dealer on this date.

The ATF then calls that dealer/distributor, and repeats until they get to the current owner, which includes; people who do "person to person transfers," stolen gun reports, or "I have it in my hands" (which does happen).

The federal government is actually BANNED from having a easily searchable database that correlates serial numbers to people. That's federal law.

So the idea of "untraceable guns" is sort of a misnomer. For the most part, they already are. No one has any clue where most of the guns are.

For your enjoyment:

http://www.surplusgunnuts.com/tutorial/part-1/build-your-own-ak47/

Was in the top 5 of a quick google search.

Surplus Gun Nuts - Part 1 - How To Build Your Own AK47

I hear people say "I've built a couple AR15 rifles, but how do I go about building an AK47?" First of all, you didn't build anything. You assembled an AR15 from a kit. It didn't take any specail tooling or skill. Making an AK47 from an 80% receiver and a military surplus parts kit is going to take some work to get all the parts to fit together correctly. But don't be mistaken, building an AK47 isn't necissarily harder.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jun 3 at 2015 7:38 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 19:38:50 -0400

ATF is stressing out these days

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 9:06 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 21:06:52 -0400

Of course the advantage for this isn't the hyped untraceability, but the fact that a home builder can have the parts delivered to his door, rather than having the parts delivered to him, and the receiver delivered to an FFL who will charge aprox. 30 bucks to handle it.

According to the BATFE, the receiver isn't a gun until it's over 80% completed. This creates a need for 80% lowers that the market fills.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 2:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 02:29:38 -0400

Big deal. The firearm is still traceable from a ballistics point of view. Many states like mine don’t have gun registration, so the serial number doesn’t mean squat. The form 4473 filled out while purchasing from an FFL supposedly isn’t meant for registration purposes.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jun 4 at 2015 8:01 AM

SGT William Howell — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 08:01:02 -0400

This is what happens when a liberals mouth overloads his brain.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 5 at 2015 3:43 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 15:43:41 -0400

The barrel wouldn't be untraceable forensically speaking.

Response by Sgt Dave Fender made Jun 7 at 2015 7:45 PM

Sgt Dave Fender — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 19:45:04 -0400

Your kid could make 1 I guess. When you buy an 80% lower it has to be drilled out. You can do it with a jig and a drill but its a lot of work that most people are probably not going to want to do. I could possibly see it as a way a felon can build a gun but at the same time I think they would be much more likely to buy 1 on the black market a lot easier. I have no problem with people building ARs.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 7 at 2015 8:03 PM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 20:03:48 -0400

http://aresarmor.com/

These guys got raided by the BATF a couple of years ago, proved they were doing nothing illegal, and are still in business.

What they do is sell you either an 80% lower receiver and you can finish it yourself, or a complete rifle kit along with an 80% finished receiver and they hold monthly "finishing" parties where their gunsmith will set up their CNC machine, you insert the receiver and press the start button yourself, and boom, you've built your own lower receiver.

By law, if the gunsmith presses the start button, they have built it and have to serialize the receiver.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2019 6:21 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Oct 2019 06:21:27 -0400

Wow, and you can go to the hardware store and buy everything you need to make a working shotgun and build it in half an hour in the parking lot. No gun can build its self nore can it kill without man.