"Excellence vs Success”

2015-05-07T10:06:38-04:00

Recently a there was a story that has a soldier that struggled to meet an Army standard. The task did prove to be extremely difficult for that soldier and they overcome the challenge. With that being said this soldier has attained national media attention for meeting the standard. That is great for the soldier but at what cost?

Does anyone know who had the best ruck time? Did they get any attention? Was there a soldier that completed their tasks without any "No-Go's" or failures? In EIB we have a thing called "True Blue." This title is held for those that complete every event their first time successfully. They are mentioned at the pinning ceremony. Are the last few feet of the ruck march all that really counts?

In other events, as a race or game, have you ever seen anyone that completed the race get more attention than the one that won or the top athlete. MAJ Chrissy Cook was the commander for the best Bradly crew in her battalion. She was the “Top Gun” so she was recognized for that and rightfully so. I can’t recall anyone else getting recognized for just passing.
Were there other factors that led to his soldier getting so much attention? Was it just a feel good story? Were there not other soldiers that did the same and did they get as much attention from the media? Was anyone really concerned about what being an Expert Field Medic really is? If you view it as a regard for getting to your objective how useful would they have been as a medic or even safely handle their weapon without flagging others?

(On a side note 3 Air Force Combat Controllers saved the lives of 38 Army Special Forces and Afghan Soldiers. One will get the Air Force Cross, being second only to the MoH. Just in case you didn’t see this in the news. It seems to not be as important.)

Response by Capt Richard I P. made May 7 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-05-07T10:11:52-04:00

News in a free society can be fickle with its coverage. I'm glad for it, if we (the military) directed what received coverage it might tend toward the tyrannical-and tyrannically dull- over time.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-05-07T10:18:16-04:00

I feel that it is the media perpetuating this men vs. women stuff to further a political agenda. While I applaud the Captain for a job well done and not quitting, I don't think this was worthy of national media attention. She was a success in acheiving the EFMB, and should be commended but didn't do anything in my mind worthy of so much attention. I really hate this kind of stuff being constantly cycled in the media. CPT Private RallyPoint Member mentioned other events more newsworthy. I'm certainly not trying to take away from what the Captain did. The EFMB is extraordinarily grueling task to earn the badge , but that is exactly what she did earn the badge. That's it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 10:23 AM

2015-05-07T10:23:42-04:00

That story resonated because it portrayed perseverance in the face of failure, will to overcome... teamates cheering her on. It was good optics. AND the EFMB is no joke. It wasn't just that ruck march, it was several days of events leading up to it.

To your point CPT Private RallyPoint Member, I do not believe in celebrating mediocity. I believe in celebrating excellence. Excellence gives everyone something to aspire to.

Having said that, if I have a Soldier who has struggled to pass a standard (say APFT) and does, I make sure that it is a big deal. To the Soldier, it is. It should be to his peers as well. But most importantly, you need to celebrate success in order to foster more success. If that event had passed without anyone noticing, I can virtually guarantee the next test will be a failure.

That Veterinarian met a standard that a whole lot of people try and fail to attain. That is a big deal.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made May 7 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-05-07T10:31:32-04:00

Thoughts:

EIB/EFMB/Ranger/etc are a standard ABOVE the general Army standard. Anyone that meets that higher standard deserves recognition as having meet the standard regardless of if they met the higher standard. The recognition is the badge/tab.

The Standard: Meeting the standard is what is expected. Sometimes we miss the mark, sometimes we struggle, sometime we kick ass and take names. Meeting the standard should be recognized as inherently "good".

Excellence: We ALL should strive for excellence, when you strive for excellence and miss the mark, you often succeed in meeting the standard. Meeting the standard (or higher standard) and blowing it out of the water is worthy of higher praise and should be lauded as such (True Blue, Top Grad, Distinguished Grad). Meeting the standard should be recognized as inherently "better".

Underdogs/Overcoming obstacles: As a society at large, we tend to root for the underdog (see almost every movie ever made). We celebrate people falling and getting back up and pressing on.

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 7 at 2015 11:22 AM

2015-05-07T11:22:06-04:00

We all overcome or own barriers, mental and physical. I have and I am sure all who served or are serving have as well. I feel the attention is getting out of hand in some aspects. Task, Condition and Standards are set for all to achieve or surpass.

However, If you fail you learn from the failure and set a goal to achieve it next time or realize that another path is available for you to grow.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 7 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-05-07T11:52:00-04:00

Our country loves underdogs. This nation started as an underdog. She exemplifies the winning spirit and a don't quit attitude that we want to bottle and reproduce. I will celebrate her achievement than to analyze where she belongs on the food chain.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-05-07T12:08:40-04:00

While I agree that the 3 Airman receiving the Commendations should have gotten more coverage, I can see why the media ran with this particular story. The Social Media "Views" on this video were astounding. As I have posted in another thread The pass rate for the EMB is only around 20% or so of the students that have taken the Course... Now I personaly dont know the statistics of the Ranger Tab or even the EIB but being that Most Rangers that I have seen Hold both the CIB and EIB I am sure that the pass Rate is alot higher. Being that this Officer passed this test while at her limitations physically shows two things... That she deserves to wear the badge as well as that she has earned the respect that the badge entails.

Now as well as what I posted in an earlier thread on the topic, The EMB is for any Medical occupational Specialty just like the Sapper tab has been turned into Any Engineering Specialty... Being a Veterinarian Like one article states will she treat troops in combat.... Probably not.

Just my thoughts on the subject

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 2:50 PM

2015-05-07T14:50:11-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member although I know there will be people that will take this as just "running against the flow" or kind of a "haters gonna hate", I do get your point completely. At the same time, and I'll try not to go too deep, maybe our expectations are too low and we get surprised too easy. But sometimes we expect too much, APFT, and even those that excel, +260, are seen as failures. As a "I will never quit" example, it was a great message. As a "I will always mantain my arms, my equipment and myself" example, it wasn't the best.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 7 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-05-07T15:40:10-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, I always had trouble with the sit up event during the APFT. It seemed that I would never meet the standard let alone exceed it. I worked hard to get better in my sit up reps, but this eventually led to my blowing out my low back, during a pt test, and no longer being able to take let alone complete a pt test. So to see this young captain struggle and succeed is something for her to be proud of, despite the excessive news coverage of her near collapse at the end.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 7 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-05-07T16:57:32-04:00

Good points Sir, but it is in the same vein as the crowd cheering the last contestant in a sporting event because they did not simply quit when it would have been so easy to do so.

Additionally, MAJ Cook's and her crew was best Bradley crew...but who was the gunner? Is she still out there putting steel on target...I would bet the rest of the crew is, if they are still in boots? Why were these people's stories presented and others were not? I have my guess...but I'm keeping it do myself...kind of.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-05-07T17:02:25-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member ANYTIME the media gets involved things are turned into entertainment. With that being said, the media isn't interested in a male who killed the course, they are interested in using the female who barely made it as something to make story pop. I don't agree with it, but unfortunately we live in a strange time. I know my grandparents are turning over in their graves at what has happened to the world.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 2:14 AM

2015-05-08T02:14:29-04:00

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 8:52 AM

2015-05-08T08:52:05-04:00

It appears some are trying to nit-pic here.

Yes, there IS a standard for excellence. But measuring anything solely by this standard does not tell a complete story. Consider a vet who lost limbs during his/her service. If this vet competes and succeeds in a race but falls short of the "excellent" rating but far about what is a reasonable expectation for his/her level of disability, are you going to say he/she was not excellent?

To me demanding a single definition of excellent is a self serving tactic for someone who THINKS he/she is above others.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made May 8 at 2015 10:06 AM

2015-05-08T10:06:33-04:00

There's nothing wrong with celebrating mental toughness in achieving the standard.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 10:07 AM

2015-05-08T10:07:25-04:00

Commendable and motivating. Too many perfectionists and negative Nancy's judging her performance or what not as if they knew her body as their own. Regardless it's an issue. I see the good in this, not the bs.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made May 8 at 2015 10:09 AM

2015-05-08T10:09:58-04:00

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/this-soldier-refused-to-give-up-on-an-army-road-march-your-thoughts

This soldier refused to give up on an Army road march. Your thoughts? | RallyPoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6x2guhVu_w http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/05/04/viral-video-this-u-s-soldier-refused-to-give-up-on-an-army-road-march/?tid=hybrid_linearcol_2_na

Response by CCMSgt Michael Sullivan Ph.D made May 8 at 2015 10:15 AM

2015-05-08T10:15:59-04:00

SrA Private RallyPoint Member during OIF/OEF there was more Silver and Bronze Stars give out to CCT's then any other AFC in the AF. There has been very little printed on paper or on TV. We do our job without looking for recognition.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 12:01 PM

2015-05-08T12:01:17-04:00

I will respond to this as I was there. I had the privilege to earn my EFMB along with this Captain. Yes there were other soldiers that were recognized. A SSG who had the fastest road march time (he was in my platoon), a Captain who completed EFMB with zero "No-Go's" and another soldier who had the highest written test score. They were all awarded the Army Achievement Medal and were given coins by the BG that pinned our badges on.

What is amazing to me is how judgmental people are about this and how it is compared to other noteworthy events not reported in the news. Does anyone really think that this Captain had control over how this video went "viral" on the internet. What difference does it make? The video is about a soldier that pushed through their physical limits to meet the Army standard and was one of the 20% of candidates who earned their EFMB.

I am glad that we all put on a uniform everyday so that we can all have our own opinions and post them in the social media world as we see fit. What good does it do to draw a comparison to this soldiers efforts versus something that you feel is more noteworthy? What has anyone done to make those events more well known? Have you posted them anywhere? If this event is what the news media chose to make noteworthy shouldn't we as fellow soldiers be proud of her accomplishment?

As a leader I inspire and teach my soldiers to push through pain, and to never quit. It looks to me like this is exactly what this soldier did. It is easy to quit it takes mental and physical toughness to drive on and complete the mission.

Why is it so hard to just say job well done or congratulations? Why is there a need to compare and contrast this with other events going on in our world today?

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 12:23 PM

2015-05-08T12:23:01-04:00

The Army Nurse Corps and Medical Branch in general are not known for upholding the standards of the Army Profession. They tend to pick and choose what rules to follow. I think it is an injustice to the Junior Enlisted, NCOs, and Junior Officers in the medical field however for some of the field grade and senior officers I think you have to accept some degradation of standards. You have brain surgeons who are getting huge bonuses to compete with civilian sector pay. Go ahead and try getting this guy or gal to the range and to take a PT Test. He most likely won't do it and in all realty the army would be losing money for all the time he is spending trying to complete Army requirements instead of his duties as a doc and surgeon.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 12:12 AM

2015-05-18T00:12:55-04:00

I don't know what Today's Army of the U.S. standards are, but I do know this. Getting an award for just doing your job and making the grade is not enough in my professional opinon. I once was an Army dependent, going from one military post to another. When I finally joined the Marine Corps, my dad, a 2 war combat veteran said this to me. The Marine Corps, Why son? I told him it was time that I grew up fast and that he should retire and let me take a shot at it. In my family everyone was in the Army. My dad retired from the Army in October, 1972. The same month I went to MCRD, San Diego, CA. To this day I'm proud of what my dad accomplished while serving in the Korean Conflict and Vietnam. He was wounded in both wars but never complained. As for myself, I think I did okay and after 21 years I soon retired. I've watched every branch of service during the last years since 9/11. Everyone of you who was tested in combat know what it takes to be that someone special. Awards or no Awards. Saving your buddy is an award itself. Life is precious. Don't waste it. Semper Fidelis J. K. Kaupe, Jr.