Fact or Fiction: "Hands-on" Tasks are not authorized for SGT/SSG Promotion Board

2014-04-26T04:03:06-04:00

In addition to whether this is true or not, why do you think it is the way it is?

Response by SSG James Flynn made Apr 26 at 2014 4:47 AM

2014-04-26T04:47:50-04:00

I have seen "Hands-on" tasks for SOM Boards but not promotion boards. I believe that it should be part of the promotion board. I've known many Soldiers who can memorize answers to questions but ask many questions when it comes to their ability to perform their mission.

Response by 1SG Shane Hansen made Apr 26 at 2014 7:28 AM

2014-04-26T07:28:22-04:00

CSM, it is true unfortunately. AR 600-8-19, para. 3-13 clearly says question and answer only and no hands-on tasks are to be performed.

I think it is that way to ensure every Soldier appearing before the board has the exact same "test" and are asked the same questions to prevent unfairness and bias. When you integrate hands-on evaluations it can become very subjective. That's the only reason I can think of, it does NOT make much sense to me though. We have hands-on evaluation grade sheets for AWT testing. I just talked myself into changing my own opinion there, sorry. I guess I am unsure as to why it is not allowed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 9:01 AM

2014-04-26T09:01:53-04:00

I think they should absolutely be authorized. Anyone can memorize answers, but I think you have to be very careful with what types of hands-on tests you use. If you stick with CTT type tasks just make sure you give every soldier the same task. An example is having them plot points on a map or disassemble/reassemble and function check on weapons. Now if all board participants are the same MOS you can get into more specific areas of the hands-on tests. I think it can give board members a better idea of what skills a soldier has not just their memorization skills.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 2:50 PM

2014-04-26T14:50:41-04:00

I think a hands on evaluation for promotion would be a good thing. SFC Day is correct in saying that if it based on WT/BD then it can be done fairly. If everyone is the same MOS it can also be done fairly.

Now if you have a bunch of motor pool guys/gals going up against supply guys/gals then it may or may not work.

A question and answer board for promotion or SOM/ NCOM board is needed to see how Soldiers of any rank can react to board members of higher rank, if they are easily frustrated or if they freeze up.

The one thing I would personally like to see removed from the promotion boards is the DA photo. What is everyone's thoughts on that

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 3:22 PM

2014-04-26T15:22:45-04:00

CSM,
1SG Hansen is correct, however this is a very unfortunate rule. I think allowing it would give 1SGs and CSMs the opportunity to view their future SGTs/SSGs in action. Especially since these first line leaders have an inherent task of training Soldiers. However, who's to say the Soldier's Sponsor (hopefully their First Line Leader) has not already required the Soldier to show their abilities "hands on".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 10:15 PM

2014-04-26T22:15:35-04:00

Fact, as has been previously stated. I do differ in opinion about needing a "hands on" task for a promotion board.

Hands on tasks are wholly unnecessary as a Soldier must be fully trained prior to gaining a recommendation from the commander. That being said, others have already brought up WT/BD/CTT/MOS tasks, which all have an evaluation component that should have already been used for determining a Soldier's Knowledge, Skills, and Attributes (KSAs). If this has to be redone at a promotion board, doesn't that point to an ineffective training model at the unit level?

Also, it would be a bit much to have a hands on task as a component for a promotion board. If a board is only assessing five or six Soldiers maybe, but I for one would hate to be a panel member assessing 25 or so Soldiers (and yes I know of boards that have had to assess that many individuals). Then there is logistics of ensuring boards Army-wide use the same tasks, in the same manner, and evaluated in the same way. We would be introducing more points of failure to the process for no valid reason.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2014 8:52 AM

2014-04-27T08:52:04-04:00

I have never attended a board that was not hands on. I like the fact that they were able to assess more than who could memorize answers to questions. My SSG board gave me situational questions on dealing with Soldier problems and suicidal ideations. I personally think hands on should be allowed to a point. What that point is, I have no clue.