Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:40:49 -0400

Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.

Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.

Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?

I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.

Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col Private RallyPoint Member 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT Private RallyPoint Member SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 10:47 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:47:03 -0400

OUCH! Talk about a devisive subject!

I'm all about someone having and enjoying freedom of speech. We don't have criminal actions against those who burn the U.S. Flag. What I have a problem with is those that rally behind the Confederate flag as if it stands for something other than what it actually stood for. Politics being the animal it is .... the politicians of the day used all the right buzz words to create the emotional tug that still exists today. And it's all bull$hit...just like any issue that's emotionally charged.

The war between the states was economics. Plain and simple. That war got wrapped up in emotion because someone told someone else they didn't like the way they were doing things. If you take the emotions out of the equation, that's what it boiled down to. In the end, one side won. The winning side got to set the rules of "how things are gonna be done".

Here's my take: there's no honor in trying to honor a state or states that made the ownership of another human being a "good thing". You can play with words all you like - that's my take.

In the end, the politicians did what they always do - they used words to rouse up the populace to do their bidding.

I think it's time to find another way to describe your pride in your state besides trying to stir up a $hitstorm .... cuz in the end ownership of another human being is the only thing anyone with a braincell working properly is gonna see when they see the stars and bars of the confederacy.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 10:47 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:47:40 -0400

CPT Aaron Kletzing I would never and not just for the reasons that we all agree upon either. But the flag by itself is not necessarily meant to be racist or anything....

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 22 at 2014 11:23 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:23:16 -0400

Do what you want. Just don't be surprised if you get some dirty looks.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 11:27 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:27:37 -0400

We have gotten to a point where displaying the American flag is offensive. Should we also hide the Stars and Stripes because people choose to be offended? I don't think so. Lets keep speech and expression free as long as it is not an overt threat.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Aug 22 at 2014 11:34 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:34:00 -0400

LTC Paul Labrador and LTC Private RallyPoint Member -- gentlemen, I have a question in response to your points -- does an installation commander have the authority to ban the Confederate flag from being displayed in these ways on the installation? I'm not saying he/she should do it -- just asking whether the authority actually resides at that level (or higher), or whether the issue is perceived as a protected free speech issue within the DoD, so a senior commander would likely not try to get involved?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 11:45 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:45:49 -0400

CPT Aaron Kletzing ,

I know that I may lose a significant amount of respect over my comments below . . . my sensibilities may be rather long out of date . . . but I can only tell you about my personal experiences and personal feelings arising out of my personal experiences . . .

I spent a significant amount of time in the South as a child. The Confederate flag reminds me of home, family, southern hospitality, gentility, respect, tradition, sweet tea, hominy, grits, greens, barbecue, seafood, discretion, propriety, white gloves, sun dresses, garden parties, gentlemen, heat, humidity, cotillion, and debutante balls. It also reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard, the General Lee, Daisy Dukes, and a whole bunch of slapstick commedy.

But, truth be told, it also reminds me of a whole bunch of frightening social divisions arising often in association with the motto "the South shall rise again" . . . striking visceral deeply held fear arising out of an era in which the political establishment ran KKK meetings, burned crosses, baited, insulted, stripped naked, whipped, shot, raped, maimed, lynched, and murdered minorities and minority sympathizers, withheld social, political, educational, and economic opportunities, bathrooms were divided, participants in mixed marriage were prosecuted, jailed, disfigured, and killed . . . peaceful protests, race riots, armed police and military confrontations ensued . . . civilian intelligence exploited informants and embedded spies in domestic organizations . . . even the army was deeply divided with minority units sent out on seek and destroy missions (essentially ordered ro expose themselves to attract enemy fire), near mutiny ensued . . . and the federal government was ultimately forced to impose an exceptionally heavy hand on its own population in order to force desegregation in the educational establishment, workplace, and elsewhere. Officially, segregated transportation, restrooms, etc were outlawed but remanents remained in many places. Older neighborhoods remained segregated, insulting language persisted, and even throughout much of the 1970's exceedingly strong racial divisions persisted. Whole neighborhoods were occasionally burned by recalcitrant and/or police action.

I respect everyone's right to freedom of expression, but as recently as a couple of months ago, in a Wallmart parking lot in North Carolina, I saw a couple of good old boys (actually teen boys) driving a rusty old pickup quickly through the parking lot, with a huge Confederate flag flying well above the cab mounted on a pole in the truck bed. I'm sure these boys felt proud to be flying their flag high in the wind . . . but even they must have known it could be provovative because they never stopped to have a discussion . . . they just drove quickly through the parking lot a few times - and just as quickly fled the scene . . . no doubt knowing they would provoke a sad reaction. This was several weeks before the Ferguson shooting . . . and renewed tensions.

In the end, while I philosophically defend the right to fly the flag, wear the KKK uniform, burn crosses and perform other theatrical acts . . . I cannot in good conscience condone anyone performing these acts, speaking, or writing anything that will obviously demean, insult, terrorize, or provoke violence from anyone.

With respect to Command authority . . . maintaining good order and discipline come to mind . . . perhaps quiet counseling . . . or perhaps conservative rulemaking . . . private display in lower enlisted quarters allowed . . . but not in any place that might be taken to represent chain of command or unit endorsement. Time, manner, and place of display may be critically important . . . e.g. not flying a Crusader flag anywhere in the Mid East.

Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 11:46 AM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:46:44 -0400

While everyone is entitled to their own feelings and thoughts, we as military professionals need to think seriously about how, when, and where we express them. Common sense would tell me that showing/wearing/flying the confederate flag on a military installation probably is in bad taste, and I know that I would be openly inviting conflict. I am pretty sure that individual was looking for a debate/fight, or they wouldnt have done it to begin with.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 11:55 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:55:26 -0400

"(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?"

I don't think it's something a commander should consider banning on a vehicle, as long as it's privately owned. I think it's unprofessional to have it on a vehicle, but it is protected as freedom of expression in a public place.

On your person in public, same thing, as long as you are not on duty (said mostly for the sake of civilians and contractors, since military will usually be in uniform). On duty, however, I think it's not just permissible but appropriate to say that it doesn't belong.

To me, these both apply on and off post. Again, freedom of expression means also the freedom to express horrible, reprehensible ideas. Others can choose to respond/act differently toward you based on that expression, as is also their right.

"(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?"

This may be unpopular here, but I'll just come out and say it:
It's a symbol of treason, secession, and slavery. Period.

I really don't see a way around that. It was the chosen banner of the movement that decided that the forced servitude of an entire race was more important than upholding your duty. The South's greatest "heroes," such as Lee, were traitors to their country, and since they took an oath as military members which they violated with their desertion, it is not a negotiable factor.

Yes, I know some people go on about "southern heritage," but outside of southern cuisine, there isn't a single piece of that "heritage" that doesn't ultimately trace back to treason, secession, slavery, and a sense of pride in those qualities.

And I know there are others who will ultimately say the real issue was "state's rights," to which I would ask, which ones? What did the traitors who formed the confederacy *say* was their rationale? Luckily, we don't have to guess, as they wrote it in their letters, and their statements of secession, and in their new state constitutions: slavery.

For what it's worth, I *don't* think that everyone brandishing the symbol is a bigot or a racist or a traitor. I think a lot of people have convinced themselves that the symbol means something different. Unfortunately for them, they are wrong.

"(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?"

I see confederate flags and Gadsden flags on cars almost every day at work. I've never seen anyone post up such stuff in the office, or wear clothing depicting it within the office (even off duty).

The only controversial symbols I've seen have been religious ones, and they've always in the cases I've been around been resolved amicably. I honestly don't know how I'd respond if it wasn't peacefully resolved right away, as I think each case may have too many unique circumstances to make a broad statement about how to act.

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Aug 22 at 2014 12:27 PM

CPO Jon Campbell — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:27:03 -0400

True story: I responded to a fight in progress call while working as a cop in SC several years ago. When I arrived, two guys and a girl in their early 20's were standing around and I asked them what was going on. They said that they had been arguing, but it was all cool now. I asked them what they were arguing about and one babbled about the other guy being from up North, but they had agreed to let bygones be bygones and not argue about what had happened 50 years ago . I asked him what could have happened 50 years ago that got them so upset. He looked at me as if I was an idiot and said, "Duh…the Civil War?" His girlfriend quickly jumped in and corrected him saying that the Civil War didn't happen 50 years ago….it was 75 years ago.
I have found that it is very common to run into people who believe that their grandfather fought in the Civil War, or they remembered an uncle talking about how he fought in the Civil War and they believe it. They proudly display the rebel flag and would fight anyone who wanted them to take it down.
I'm not sure of the correct way to counter long, and deeply held beliefs that are inaccurate, but I do know that trying to put an outright ban on a symbol only makes people more determined to display it and to believe that they are right. One thing that might help is education. The military, unfortunately, has its hands full with their sort of thing.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 12:26 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:26:56 -0400

I had a Black Soldier from SC who had a Rebel flag up in his Room. I think he also had one on his huge pickup truck as well.

I see no issue

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Aug 22 at 2014 12:37 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:37:40 -0400

Sir

1. My opinion regarding the Confederate flag remains the same whether a servicemember is on or off post.

2. To me, the Confederate flag symbolizes home. It's a symbol of comfort because it reminds me of the culture and traditions I share with the people from the Deep South. It also represents people who were willing to lose it all to defend their state's rights.

To others, I believe the flag can represent racism, disloyalty to the USA and/or a country torn apart from this inside. I know where I'm from, there are many who still "smell the powder burning".

3. Yes I have been in this situation before however it was with the Texas State flag. I had a little flag in my "cellar" in Afghanistan and people would pick it up and talk smack. I was extremely offended by it and I expressed my feelings in the most Christian way possible but I left it at that.
Excluding the Bible or cross, if I had a symbol that offended someone, I would take it down. It would definitely be hard to swallow my pride but for me personally, I subject myself to the Bible regulations and that means if it isn't promoting Christ then it's not a battle worth fighting. No I'm not holier than thou or anything but I do try to follow Jesus' example.

However as a leader I would not expect the same from my soldiers because they may not hold themselves accountable to the Bible. The way I would handle it would be a case-by-case basis, however I would try to ensure my decision reflected my two basic responsibilities: accomplish the mission and take care of my soldiers.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 22 at 2014 1:12 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:12:50 -0400

My 2 cents:

From my observations, many people north and south of the Mason Dixon line use the flag as a symbol of rebellion not necessarily related to the Civil War. Yes the flag is deep rooted in southern history and those that are the staunchest supporters of its symbology seem to be predominantly from the south. Elements of the flag design are currently incorporated into state flags and that is allowed to legally stand. That being said, I don't think a post commander has the authority to ban the public display of the Confederate flag. It is technically no longer the flag of a foreign country more of a symbol of rebellious and/or southern pride.

Now if PFC Johnny Reb and PFC Billy Yank are sharing quarters and the display of the flag becomes disruptive to good order and discipline, then I believe the local commander should have the right to resolve the issue to include asking the soldier to remove the flag, just as if it were something morally or racially sensitive and/or offensive.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 1:26 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:26:32 -0400

This is a very sensitive situation that is often dealt from in the military as most of the Army installations are in the south. It is hard to say how someone would perceive such a image. My Regiments linage goes as far back as the 3rd North Carolina, of which fought as a Confederate infantry regiment. There is a lot of pride for the South as you also have Civil War Memorials all over NC, to include Raleigh.

I try to step back from a situation and view it from another perspective. By being in the South it is virtually impossible but I would look to another country.

Portugal was one of the greatest colonial powers in the World. They had many colonies all over the world. The largest was Brazil. At one point the main power of Portugal was in Brazil but there was a civil war, or rebellion. Portugal lost and Brazil won it's independence. This would echo across the world and would lead to many other colonies following suit. Leading to the Portuguese version of Vietnam a century later. Of which I have family fight in Africa for Portugal.

You may ask why this is relevant. My real last name is Da Rosa. It was changed when my father came to America from Portugal. I am Portuguese. I take great pride in being Portuguese. However, if you want to insult someone who is Portuguese try calling them Brazilian. It is insulting and ignorant to me. It is not even on the same continent. It is more common than one would think.

Some may think this is nonsense but that that is exactly my point. You may see it as trivial but to some it is not. You may see it as the Confederate Flag but you may find that person that lost a family members in the past battling the confederacy. To that person it is not trivial.

While in a place of employment you should act in a professional manner. The only flag I wear is the American flag. I don't have a Portuguese flag on my car but will sport my Portugal jersey during their short span in the world cup. You wouldn't want to come across any other way that you maybe perceived in an less than professional manner. If they were off base I don't see an issue with it or if they were in a private capacity. If you are a leader and you have a Confederate flag across your back window and that young African-American soldier you just got in from Mississippi may view you in a whole different light.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 2:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:14:02 -0400

I dont think it should be anywhere on a military post. Correct me if I am wrong but it is/was a flag of "another" country. We (USA) fought against that flag. Now anywhere off post is cool.
It doesnt bother me as far as race, slavery, KKK and all that other stuff BUT that flag has a different meaning to my mother, grandmother, and other older relatives that grew up in the South.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Aug 22 at 2014 2:49 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:49:35 -0400

Just as a point of clarification, the flag you have depicted in your question is NOT, nor was it ever, the Confederate States of America flag. It is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The design was rejected as the CSA flag in 1861 and adopted (in the squared form) as the Army of Northern Virginia Battle flag.
Even though it was never a formal flag of the CSA, it has been widely adopted as a symbol of the south.
As an amateur Civil War buff, this is a common misconception that has always annoyed me.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled debate. :)

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Aug 22 at 2014 3:29 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:29:37 -0400

After reading some of the response on this subject, I wonder if we should rename bases named after Confederate Generals.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Aug 22 at 2014 3:37 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:37:45 -0400

I don't see a problem here. After all while I was in the Army on active duty from 79-82 and again from 99-02 I saw flags and stickers from Mexico, Puerto Rico, the Philippine Islands, and several other nations in and on vehicles being driven by service members. The Confederate States of America does NOT exist anymore, the flag as was stated by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca, as "many people north and south of the Mason Dixon line use the flag as a symbol of rebellion not necessarily related to the Civil War." This is another case of Higher authority overstepping their boundaries. As a veteran who is from the south I don't see the "Confederate"/rebel flag as any type or threat to good military order and discipline unless as also stated my Maj. Petrarca it becomes a problem between soldiers living in the barracks. So much for my .02.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 4:01 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:01:43 -0400

I used to get upset when I seen that flag displayed. That was because I did not fully understand what it means to some people. Two things changed how I thought of that flag.

The first was when I listened to " The Night They Drove Ole Dixie Down" by The Band. I understood that the flag was representation of a way of life, a certain since of community taken away by a war with fellow country men. Certainly one of the most despicable moments in U.S. history.

The second was when I joined a section as mixed race PFC with a Caucasian female NCO as my first line. She had the flag as rear license plate on her F150 she picked me up in from the 82nd reception. I was terrified that I would not get a fare shake, and she was ignorant. When in fact, she supported me and the other two African-American male Soldiers with unwavering persistence. She was one of the best NCOs I have ever worked with personally.

In my mind, their are two reasons folks would display the confederate flag. The above, and the people that unfortunately believe that one group of people are in fact better than other groups of people because of the shade of their skin, their faith, or what geographic location they are from. To me, if an individual is so intellectually challenged that they believe that, I'm not upset anymore, I fill sorry for them. They miss out on so much because of bias that I get to enjoy by engaging people with my open mind.

If America, my way of life, my since of community, was taken from me in an act of war from opposing idealist, I would fly the stars and strips until the day I died. Don't get offended until you have a reason to be is all I'm saying. If the person flying the confederate flag posses a threat to good order and discipline, address that threat and that individual. Categorizing everybody that displays that flag is no better than than any other simple minded label people have given their life to erase.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 22 at 2014 4:04 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:04:58 -0400

Like most of us, I love my military history. I always saw the stars and bars as a chapter in our history. The display of this flag does not mean that you are a racist or advocate separating from this great nation. I'm also aware that there is a strong correlation between certain hate groups and the use of that image. I promise you that haters are going to hate, regardless. Complex problems are fought by like a major campaign whittling them down to size battle after battle and skirmish after skirmish and sometimes over a span of decades/centuries. Racism is a perfect example. One of the skirmishes was displaying images. Somehow, the skirmish turned into it's own battle. In my opinion, the enemy (racism) created a distraction to get us to attack in the wrong direction. Making the stars and bars the symbol of racism means that about half of this nation are racists. All families who had relatives that proudly served the south are descendants of racists. Therefore, in the noble battle to fight racism, we succeeded to swell the ranks with fighters on both sides that previously had no interest to fight. My girlfriend is a Japanese national and lost relatives during WWII fighting relatives that we all lost. What does that make us?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 5:14 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 17:14:52 -0400

I personally don't have a problem with that flag. Yes many people have different views of its meaning and what it stands for. I think the bigger issue is everyone in this country is offended by something a flag, the name of a football team a cross etc. Seems like most folks say they believe in the 1st amendment, liberty and the pursuit of happiness unless it offends me. Next thing you now someone won't like my cowboy boots and I will have to give them up. Silly I know but that's the world today!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 6:32 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 18:32:24 -0400

CPT Aaron Kletzing. Historical note . . . there are three distinct flags displayed below . . .

(1) The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia ( SQUARE )

(2) The Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee ( RECTANGLE )

(3) The Stars and Bars

The Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee is also known as the CONFEDERATE FLAG / Rebel Flag / Dixie Flag / Southern Cross . . . this may be disquieting to some and is the one flown most often.

Warmest Regards, Sandy

Source: http://www.moc.org/collections-archives/flags-confederacy

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 6:43 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 18:43:54 -0400

It's pretty simple - the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (though often proportioned more like the Second Confederate Naval Jack) is a symbol of the south. If someone takes issue with it, they take issue with my adopted homeland and therefore with me.

Is it disruptive? It's only so if someone insists on being disrupted by it. I can't be held responsible if small-minded people prejudge me based on the flag. So long as the CO does not ban it, I will fly it. And if the CO does ban it, I will remove it from my truck... and then file a complaint with the CMEO over the discriminatory practice.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Aug 22 at 2014 6:48 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 18:48:41 -0400

You can wear a Yankee's Jersey to a Red Sox game....just don't be surprised on what you have to deal with. It is absolutely your right to do so, and it's also your right to defend yourself, and you'll probably have to. But I'd probably just not wear the jersey.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 7:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:18:16 -0400

When I was Active Duty, I had a Confederate flag bumper sticker on my car. I'm from Alabama, and it had always been a simple symbol of my southern heritage. Back home, you could see them everywhere in little towns. I never viewed it as a racist symbol. Many of my relatives were Civil War soldiers and died under that flag. Ignorant bigots hijacked it and turned it into a representation of hate.

Response by MSG Brian Breaker made Aug 22 at 2014 7:46 PM

MSG Brian Breaker — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:46:54 -0400

I am from the south and have always had issue with the Confederate Battle flag. When I see it displayed I smurk because I have heard all the arguments for wanting to display the Confederate Battle flag. I even did a little research so I could understand the reason behind it. In the late 80's I was doing a an barracks furniture inventory and one of the Soldiers had the flag draped across his bunk. I asked him why he had it and he could not explain. He told me I could take it anyway I wanted to but he would not remove it. I brought this to the attention of the 1SG and he made him remove it. The understanding was if it offends someone take it down and he did. My-Father tells the story of his 2nd tour in Vietnam how the Soldiers in his unit were given orders to remove the flags. So they did, but they started displaying state flags that had the Confederate Battle flag on it.

I can tell you I have many reason for disliking the flag, but my main one is this. When a group of hate adopts your flag as their own it looses it's significance as your heritage.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 9:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 21:00:19 -0400

As an 8th generation northerner (my 8th great grandfather landed in the town I was born in), I could choose to be offended by the confederate flag but I won't. As proud as I am of my ancestors for throwing off the imperial hand of the British and helping forge the nation, I can understand the pride that southern folks have in their flag. While the confederate flag can be used to symbolize the worst aspects of southern history, very few Americans today fly it with that intent and those that do should be disregarded like you would a mosquito or gnat.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 9:32 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 21:32:31 -0400

This flag has been an issue for many. However:
1) I don't mind it if someone is on or off post with it. It helps me gauge who they are.
2) For the most part, the flag symbolizes a majority of two groups. The Southern, and the Persecuted. I can agree with the people that are from the south that they identify with it. But I also realize that there are a lot of people that see that flag and think of Slavery. There are the few that present the flag in a racist manner, but (thank God) those people are dwindling in number and will soon be a distant memory.
3) on a bus ride from the airport Tarmac to the airport, our bus driver (also a former Army SFC) was wearing a Confederate Flag pin on his collar. The SSG with the MCT there asked him to remove it because it offended her. The driver said that it wasn't meant to offend and removed it. Curious by this, I asked the SSG why she felt this way. Not that I didn't understand her reasoning, or understand history, I was just trying to understand her point of view. She said that it was because the flag to her was a representation if slavery. I asked the SSG if they knew that the reason for making that flag was to be on the side of abolishing slavery. This only enraged them, and the SSG threatened to go to my command with this "obvious racism".

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 9:49 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 21:49:44 -0400

I wear a belt buckle with an American and Confederate flag on it. When I checked into my first command a black chief told me that I probably shouldn't wear it, but it didn't offend him, it might offend others. I asked him if he was telling me not to wear it as an order or as a person. he told me as a person so I walked off. People often see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism but it really just stands for the people that finally said enough to the governments oppression and exercised their rights to create a separate country ran by states rather than big government. I proudly wear mine. I get dirty looks but those individuals are narrow minded.

Response by CW3 Clayton C. made Aug 22 at 2014 10:44 PM

CW3 Clayton C. — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 22:44:45 -0400

I'm from South Carolina, the first state to succeed from the union. South Carolina no longer uses any of the flags of the confederacy, so I neither hold it in high regard nor disdain. It is a part of the history of our great nation and, if used as a reminder that we shall never be divided again, I think it's appropriate. People like what they like. As long as it's not being used as a tool to divide then it is permissible. I've had to educate people in the military on the meaning behind such things, not just the most popular confederate flag. I think the ways in which I approach situations like that leave everyone with a better understanding that it is not about racism, it's about remembering an important piece of our history. Now, if someone is using it as an inflammatory tool, they will remove it, end of story. Most people display the Naval Jack, based on the dimensions, and not the battle flag that they are intending.

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Aug 23 at 2014 2:00 AM

PFC Eric Minchey — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 02:00:32 -0400

My Answers

(1) My opinion: On Post- As long as its their POV & SM is off duty and not in uniform its fine. Off Post- No Change

(2) What does it mean to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUMFa2hHOtc. What it can mean to others: whatever you want it to be its America and you have that right just as much as I have the right to my belief regarding the flag. And if we can just agree to disagree on the flag that would be alright.

(3) I checked with my roommate to make sure he had no objection to me hanging the flag on my side of the room and hung it in a way so that it could not be seen from the window or door. CO did spot it during a health & Welfare inspection put said he had no problem with it.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 12:56 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 12:56:22 -0400

Sticking with the actual questions posted
1. I have no issues with a small sticker or bumper sticker of the battle flag on a POV. There's a POV that is parked on the White House ellipse that has an anti-Obama sticker on it. My truck has a sticker of a squid wearing a trucker hat that says booty hunter (Squidbillies, check it out!)

2. The battle flag is perceived by many in a multitude of ways. I have ancestors who fought and died for the south during the Civil War. For some reason, there are country bumpkins in Ohio and all over the north who claim to be rebels and fly the flag, even though their bloodlines tell a different truth. And then you have people who just see it as a symbol of hate.

3. In our p.c. world, if someone gets upset over something else, I believe the medical term is "Butthurt", the person experiencing that butthurt is going to win. It tends to be a thing where you have to pick your battles. If it's on my license plate, yeah sure whatever, I'll take it off and find another way to come back at ya. If for some odd reason I ever had a battle flag sticker on my bumper (don't put stuff on paint people), I'd probably take that battle as long as it was just the flag and nothing stupid.

And for my historical perspective, most people don't realize but back in those days, there was more allegiance to your state than the nation. Robert Lee is the best example of this, he didn't want the union to split up, but he could not fight against his home of Virginia.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 3:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 15:17:19 -0400

The movie "Gone With the Wind" creatred this romantic picture of the Confederacy. Hate groups adopted the Confederate battle flag (more specifically the Confederate Naval Jack as a symbol of their movement. I can fulliy appreciate how African American as well as anyone who has been targeted by these hate groups will find the Stars and Bars offensive.

Supporters say it is "pride and not hate". Opponents find it offenive and hateful.

I consider myself a student of history. I love it and soak it up where ever I can find it. My family fought for the Confederacy, they were not slave owners. They were poor dirt farmers - one step above a slave on the social ladder who were conscripted into the army. I say this becuase it is history and we should all know our histories.

That being said all the Confederate flags need to be furled and returned to the museums. We need to educate on all the causes of the War Between the States and the post war era. We need to educate the causes of Jim Crow, Seperate but Equal and the Civil Rights Era. We need to educate why certain symbols are offensive. (I find the clenched fist of the Black Panther Party offensive).

Kind of a rant on my part but I believe that if a symbol is disruptive to good order and discipline it should be removed.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 3:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 15:30:50 -0400

Once again so long as you are extending this ban to ALL flags which might offend someone.
We live in an interesting time: everyone speaks of being politically correct but the rules ONLY apply to a few. All rules must be equally enforceable with respect to all groups. Consider; an Irish Decedent might be offended by the Union Jack, a Armenian by a Turkish Flag, a Ukrainian, Polish, Georgian by a Russian Flag, a Palestinian by the Israeli Flag and vice versa, etc. I might be offended every time I see a New York Yankees Sticker (as rightfully anyone should be). Where will you draw the line? There will be or should not be exceptions or sacred cows that escape in order to be "PC". Ban them all to protect everyone as equal under the law or leave it alone, allow personal choice and freedom and make everyone act tolerantly.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Aug 23 at 2014 3:51 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 15:51:36 -0400

Well CPT Aaron Kletzing, since you tagged me, I feel obligated to chime in. To be quite honest, I have never had any issue with the confederate flag. It really does not symbolize anything specific to me; other than the Dukes of Hazard. There are those out there who are very opinionated about the confederate flag and I really am not one of them. I do believe that if you display something, regardless of what it is, for the sole purpose of offending someone else, then you are wrong.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 5:52 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 17:52:31 -0400

If you choose to display the Confederate Flag, I'm going to assume some things about you, and one of them is that you see me as less than human because of the color of my skin. It's not up to me to change that perception, and I *will* avoid contact with you if at all possible.

I will NOT, however, attempt to restrict your right to display that flag.

The number one reason why I don't support it, is because it represents those who declared war on the nation I took an oath to serve. It's the flag of traitors.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 11:35 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 23:35:29 -0400

The flag below was flown by traitors who turned against their country. This flag flew over the institution of slavery and was carried into battle by armies who would successfully preserve that institution.

I suppose when we see this flag we will all be permitted to make a snap judgement about it and those who display it.

I hope you will all zealously ensure that this flag and its derivatives are not seen on post lest someone with a degree of knowledge in history suffer an eyebrow twitch of offense. All it takes apparently is for one to proclaim offense and the symbol is defined for all.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 3:31 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 03:31:57 -0400

I personally think the Confederate Flag should not be flown anywhere in the United States. To me it represents a group of traitors, who decided to leave the Union and become their own country. The seceeded, fought and lost a war. In losing they lost the right to fly the flag. If the South had won the Civil War would we be able to fly the US Flag?

Most Southeners say the flag represents a culture, but what culture does it represent? What in that culture brings pride, rolling cotton fields, forced labor, lynchings, segregation? What is it? Help me understand?

I personally am NOT offended by the Confederate flag as an African American, but I am offended by the Confederate flag and an American soldier who's country lost several brave men fighting to preserve the greatest nation in the world against domestic terrorists.....

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Aug 24 at 2014 11:14 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 11:14:31 -0400

Being born and raised in the South, I have an affinity for the Confederate Battle Flag, however I also know the deep-seated animosity felt towards it because of it's use by the KKK and other hate groups. When I was stationed at Ft. Carson, '88-'91, the Garrison Commander banned it from display on any and all vehicles so as to prevent any ill feelings. This was done in response to a heightening of tensions between African-American and Caucasian Soldiers at the time, he also banned any and all clothing, flags etc portraying the late Malcolm X as they were in fashion at the time in a promotion of resistance/outrage against the government/and many Caucasians.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Aug 24 at 2014 10:22 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 22:22:14 -0400

While the flag does not offend me, I can see where offense can be made. If it is ushered aside, it should not mean history and the lessons our country has learned through it's history should be brushed aside. We should always learn from our past.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 11:29 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 23:29:44 -0400

1. I have no problem with the display of the Confederate flag. In fact, at the Confederate cemetery on Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois (at which I was stationed for four years) they place these flags on the graves of the buried Confederate soldiers. If you're an American it's part of our collective history, whether you like it or not. That said, the display of the Confederate flag means as much to me off post as it does on.

2. To me, the flag symbolizes a part of our history we all would like to forget; however, those to forget the past are doomed to repeat it. It reminds me that we would all do well to remember where we came from to ensure we continue our efforts to wipe out discrimination on every front to guarantee that our kids don't grow up with the same narrow-minded bigotry upon which our country was founded.

(And for those who take issue with the statement that our country was founded by bigots, I'll invite you to do a little research on our slave-owning founding fathers who signed our Declaration of Independence. "All men are created equal," indeed.)

3. As far as a personal experience in which someone was offended by the Confederate flag and what I did/thought about it, it doesn't apply to me. Haven't come across that issue yet. However, I have enough military experience and faith enough in our collective ignorant American sophism to never discount someone's ability to be offended by something they haven't done their homework enough to articulate. I'm no more offended by the display of the Confederate flag than I am some off-duty seaman flying the flag of his African ancestors or Mexico or Texas or the rainbow flag of the LGBT.

Somebody somewhere will manufacture a reason to be offended by the Confederate flag. It's who we are. Americans are contentious by nature. But just because they're offended doesn't mean they're right. They just haven't done their homework and (quite possibly) are ascribing motives and ideals to the flag-bearer that do not exist.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Aug 25 at 2014 1:04 AM

LCpl Todd Houston — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 01:04:10 -0400

This issue is the epitome of a situation that no matter what side you are on, you are wrong on some level. First and foremost it is a 1st amendment issue. I would say that just about any person in the military would say the main reason they joined the military was to fight and protect all our rights, morals and way of life we enjoy. The reason for the Bill of Rights in the first place was keep sacred the protection the rights of the few. Willing to risk life and limb to ensure those minority opinions, no matter how reprehensible they be (ie.. KKK, Arian Brotherhood, Black Panther etc...). This right has never been taken lightly. That being said, in this particular case, the federal government is not working as a legislative body, but rather that of employer. As such, in order to serve, one must sign a contract with numerous clauses, just as any employer does. Even jobs that do not require signed contracts, do have a code of conduct, handbook or otherwise set of rules. The most basic example is that requirement of a uniform or dress code. And yes this can extend to one's off duty time as well. The best example I can think of would be that of law enforcement. In order to work for such an employer, perhaps a rule prohibiting beards is in place. Since it is highly unlikely one could grow a full beard in just a few days, enough to look respectable anyhow, it is made a rule that no beards be allowed. The list could become extensive. No visible tattoos, no t-shirts with offensive language, religious or political speech etc... Since this would be considered a highly visible profession, the courts have consistently held that an off duty officer can still be held to the same standard they are when they are on duty, and this is not considered a violation of the officer's first amendment rights. He or she has the choice of not taking the job!! However, nothing is ever as cut and dried as this. If you take the same individual and have them delivering newspapers to news boxes in town at 3:30 in the morning, now it does violate their rights. Now, to me the confederate flag means a time in our history when several of the united states succeeded from the union in order to protect the rights of those states to govern themselves without the interference of the federal government. It was believed this would lead to excessive interference of a large central government that would continue to grow to an unmanageable level that would continue to slowly strip away more and more rights of the people. Look around you, they were not wrong!!! It just so happened that the right at issue was each states freedom to choose to be a free or slave state. ( Google the Missouri Compromise). Understandably so, through the flawed teaching of our history by our many varied school systems, millions of children were taught that the Civil War was fought over slavery. This is fundamentally incorrect. It was fought over states rights. Because of this, the Confederate flag has become a dark symbol in our country meaning that those who display it endorse slavery or are prejudice over African Americans. Many may be, but to me it symbolizes a time in our history that showed once again that when Americans feel oppression from the state, they are willing to fight tooth and nail, to the death for our freedoms. It just so happens the irony was to have the freedom to keep freedom from others. However, we are still dealing with the same issue today, only now the subject is the Affordable Care Act.
I did not set out to make this politically correct. I set out to state my opinion and back it up with facts. I make no apologies for my statements. In no way have I set out to hurt anyone. However, if you have read this in its entirety and feel I have offended you, please reread it as most likely there is something that I wrote that you simply didn't understand.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Aug 25 at 2014 4:08 AM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 04:08:32 -0400

Since the flag no longer has a country behind it, I don't think its much of an issue. Its just one's way of saying I'm from the south. Now if you were to fly the flag of another current country, thats a different story.

I had a quadron Gunny who was against it in any way. He'd make your life hell if you had it up.

Some attribute it to slavery, but some want to see the bad in all. The southern way of life is so different that the fast pace of other parts of the country. Hailing a cab in NY vs sitting back on the porch sipping a beer in Alabama. Thats how I see it. I'm not "southern", I've never flown it, but it doesn't offend me. There are plenty of other real issues to be offended by.

However, I do think the big flag on the back of the truck is overkill and an attempt to intentinaly piss people off.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2014 11:01 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:01:20 -0400

Arguing that people shouldn't judge you or assume things based on these displays is utter crap: if that's the case, why are you displaying it?

If you understand nothing else out of this entire thread, understand that people have extremely strong opinions about this issue, for and against. Every day you are judged by people before you speak based on how you look, how you are dressed, how tall you are..., etc. If you feel that you are in a position where making the best possible first impression is irrelevant for you, by all means, plaster your vehicle with your flags (confederate, rainbow, TX, Cuban, or otherwise), symbols (peace, hammer and sickle, Calvin peeing on a Chevy, whatever), and various sexual/political/hometown slogans. Wear your gang's bandanna, your football team's belt buckle, I don't care. But know that you are screaming information about yourself to everyone who sees it. Information that you may never have an opportunity to correct. You can puff yourself up and proclaim that the problem is them and not you but it will absolutely not change that first impression.

Look, I get that for you personally, it might mean something else. A great example is that someone might have an OIF veteran license plate, but that in no way means he/she supported the Iraq war on an ideological level or votes republican, but those are all things a viewer might assume. If you don't care that people will assume that, get the plate. If you do, you have to think about that fact before deciding to broadcast that information.

If you read my other posts on lots of topics, you know that I am against the idea of banning things. To ban something is to give it power. If you don't like it, ignore it. But on the other side, drop the argument that you mean something different when you fly the flag. That would be like saying I have a Miami Dolphins sticker on my car because I'm from Miami, not because I like that team. That might be 100% true, but that's not the impression my sticker gives the the majority of people viewing it. I can dislike that or disagree, but I can't try to say all of those people are wrong for making a perfectly valid assumption. Pointing out that there is different historical information doesn't take away from the umpteen interactions I have personally had with bigoted people using this exact symbol. You need to give those people your information and tell them to stop using this symbol if it means so much to you. You are arguing with the wrong individuals.

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Aug 25 at 2014 11:09 AM

CPT Mike Sims — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:09:59 -0400

It flies everyday on military bases in Mississippi as it is part of the Mississippi state flag. I know this because I am from Mississippi. As a former Enlisted Soldier and Officer - none of us from that state, black - white - Asian - Hispanic ever took issue with the flag. It doesn't represent hate at all. It represents a time in history where states separated from the government because they felt states rights were being trampled on by the federal government. As one gentlemen mentioned below, this particular flag was one of many variations of Confederate battle flags flown in the South during the Civil War. In today's time, it represents heritage of the people from the South - something that unites them. It is no different than the Mexican flag that my American friends with Mexican heritage display - or the African flag that many of my American friends with African heritage display - or the Irish flag that many of my American friends from Ireland display. Someone's interpretation of what a flag means to them is just that - their own interpretation... but the last time I checked, the U.S. Constitution guarantees the the right to free speech and freedom of expression - and the display of a flag does not pose a threat to anyone physically. So, even on military bases - the U.S. Constitution still prevails... at least I believe that's what we swore an allegiance to protect and defend!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2014 1:06 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:06:07 -0400

I dont like it. I hate to seeing it. Its distasteful. It was the Flag of the enemy. I can understand if it was a state flag, but it isn't. I think it a slap in the face for a service member to wear of fly the flag.It's one of the many things that causes division amongst the people of this nation. I lived in and went to school in Raleigh, North Carolina and I cant remember seeing this flag displayed publicly. How the flag reminds someone of home, I just cant understand it. Did I really just read a comment that said, "I had a Black Soldier from SC who had a Rebel flag up in his Room. I think he also had one on his huge pickup truck as well." Wow! But that's just my $0.02.

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Aug 25 at 2014 2:30 PM

CPO Rick Felty — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:30:51 -0400

The Confederate flag achieved the name confederate because of the beliefs of the south and mainly their pride forties outs. Today it is not shown or flown by. Most as a symbol of racism, but as a member of the south that lived or lives In the south or the southern customs of living and the lifestyle of the south. We like grits, BBQ, cornbread. Fishing hunting. Drinking beer with buddies and family and we are proud of the south. Other races think we are flaunting it in their face. Not the case. We are just damn proud of the south. Now..... If someone wants to bring up racism, during the civil war there were blacks that fought for the south, because they believed in it. If you truly go south you will see. Southerners still Speak politely to the blacks. We rub elbows with them and even drink with them, even have. Some of them come into our homes. I admit there are some hard heads that still have hatred in their heart but. Please do not stereotype All southerners. We fly the flag because it is a. Symbol of the south. If anyone Really wants to stereotype why do southerners have to look at the union flag everywhere and have it rubbed in OUR face ?

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Aug 25 at 2014 2:54 PM

CPO Rick Felty — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:54:31 -0400

The Confederate flag was termed by the Union as "Confederate" in regards as a. Threat to the north during the civil war. To Southerners it is a symbol of pride for the south, southern hospitality, hominy grits, collard greens, family reunions and. Just good ole boys having a drink together. It is pride for the south. Our way of life, and comraderie that no one would understand if you are not from the south or grew up there. Frankly southerners are just good hard working people that don't make a lot of money, but share what they have, and are willing to help. A neighbor out in a pinch. The flag. Does not intend to. Mean hatred or racism as it may have a long time ago. Frankly southerners are friendly. To the blacks, we drink with them rub elbows with them, work with them. Laugh and joke with them even. Invite them into our. Homes. This figment that hatred runs rapid in the south is a. Myth. Yes there are still some. Knot heads out there, but they do not represent the majority. If someone wants to bring. Hatred toward the. Flag. Then. Why do we have the observes and. Southerners have to look at the union flag everywhere and everyday. In Vietnam we were all brothers, we stood back to back, not a do or try. But a do or die black,yellow brown white. As for the. Confederate it is only a symbol for southern pride to a true southerner. It hurts me when I wear a T-shirt or a belt buckle. With the flag and. People look at me with disdain. It is meant For southern pride.

Response by LCpl Thomas Phillips made Aug 25 at 2014 5:58 PM

LCpl Thomas Phillips — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:58:04 -0400

For those that coincide the rebel flag(incorrect terminology for the battle flag of the North Virginia Army) with hatred or bigotry mainly do so only because of the use of the flag by hate groups(mainly the KKK) as a flag that they have decided to use to show their hatred of people with a skin color other than that of their own. The KKK uses the flag in a way to promote violence and hatred toward other races. Not all individuals fly the NVA battle flag for the same reasons. As to the same way that all Muslims do not share the beliefs of those associated with terrorists groups. So should we hate all Muslims just because they are Muslim, the answer is no. And no, I don't fly a NVA battle flag, just Ole Glory

Response by SFC Don Bracken made Aug 25 at 2014 7:56 PM

SFC Don Bracken — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:56:48 -0400

I really think we have a lot more important things to worry about that flag -- we have wounded warriors that need our attention.. Awake up

Response by SSG William Self made Aug 25 at 2014 9:59 PM

SSG William Self — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:59:40 -0400

Proudly displayed in Fort Wainwright

Response by PV2 Rick Isaak made Aug 26 at 2014 12:38 AM

PV2 Rick Isaak — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 00:38:09 -0400

First off by saying that in recent years I found out about my family history, and that alot of my mother's ancestors fought for the Confederacy(but some Union, too.). I always kind of knew that, and was proud of it. My ancestors definitely were not slaveholders, but loyal to their home state. Really confused some people around me, in school and such, that I was proud to have that heritage.(I went to HS in NJ, alot of Blacks in that school.) The majority of men that fought for the South, was just out of of patriotism for Virginia, or South Carolina, or Georgia...their home state, in the South it was just about their native state. The flag only really became a symbol of hate was when some Southern states flew them above their statehouses to defy integration. Really though, the US flag could be considered one too, because slavery was flown under that one way more. In reality, a flag is just a piece of fabric, sewn up in such a way to look like something. It's how people act, towards it's honor or disrespect, is how it should be truly valued.

Response by CPL Laie Holloway made Aug 26 at 2014 12:36 PM

CPL Laie Holloway — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 12:36:32 -0400

Umm all I have to say is that I'm black and I have the Mississippi flag (which has the Confederate flag in it) tattooed on my left arm. It's just a symbol of the south. It doesnt necessarily mean hate. Now the Swastika is a whole different meaning... ban that instead of the Confederate flag.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 5:19 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 17:19:20 -0400

(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post? Don't care whether the person is on post or off-post.
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently? I've always felt that most people who fly the confederate flag are just proud to be from the south. I've never known anyone who had a confederate flag to be racist or anything, it was just a matter of pride for them.
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader? N/A

As someone else said, people can get offended over anything today. Some might be offended by a confederate flag, others may be offended by another flag or a symbol.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Aug 27 at 2014 1:37 AM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 01:37:49 -0400

I don't know if it's because I am a historian or not, but I see the flag as being a symbol of a defeated enemy of the United States. I wouldn't wear or display it just like I wouldn't wear or display the rising sun or the swastika. I'm a southerner and I don't get the appeal from a heritage point of view. It's the flag of a defeated rebellion. Nothing more.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Aug 27 at 2014 7:19 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:19:58 -0400

I know of no regulation preventing it, when I lived in the barracks as a private, I had one hanging in my room, I feel that is about the same as Spanish heritage Americans flying the flag of their heritage. The civil war is over, but it is still a part of my heritage. I had kin folk that fought and died in that war. Teach your people to honor each other as a person and try to understand each others past. Do you also tell the other people not to fly other countries flags where their ancestors come from? stop looking for conflict and focus on respect for individuals.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2014 10:33 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 10:33:08 -0400

Let me preface my comments with this... there is no room in the military for any sort of discrimination. We all wear the suit, we all have a job to do and at the end of the day no matter the color of our skin, what reproductive function our organs serve, the name of the God we pray to (or not), we are all service men and women and each and everyone of us deserves respect if for no other reason than the oath and commitment that we all took.

With that said. ...

On this topic of the Confederate flag I see both sides, however the big thing of that particular icon at least here in the south is quite simply it is a huge part of history and those roots still run very very deep. The thing is interpretation. To most people in this country it is a sign of racial inequality, slavery.... etc....etc...etc... however in reality that truly has almost nothing to do with it. Like so many other situations it is made a racial issue when the truth is far from it... the Confederate or Rebel flag is a symbol of dissatisfaction with the status quo, much like the "don't tread on me" and other icons that have gained in popularity in recent years.
It is a symbol of pride much like your Mexican, Dominican, Puerto Rican flags that are hung from rear view mirrors decaled etc... so seriously if our military members are going to be so thin skinned as to take offense to some one being proud of being from the south.... to not being satisfied with the status quo I say get over it... do I choose to have one... nope I'm from Colorado.. i have my CR Avs and Broncos as well as a big Colorado flag and a mural of the only true mountain range in the country on my truck... is this offensive? Seriously race is only still an issue in this country because everyone makes it an issue in this country... GET OVER IT! Black people have not been slaves in the personal reconning of anyone alive in this contry... they are not the only ones in the history of this country to be slaves.... my great great great grand father was white as the new fallen snow and he came to this country in chains as a slave... slavery is an issue but no one has exclusive claim to it... racism is an issue but again no one has exclusive claim to it... quit making an issue of it and it won't be an issue... plain and simple every race, sex, religion, country, ethnicity has its trash and each have its greats... make the choice of which you want to be an be it.... be part of the solution or be part of the problem...but either way get over it.... that's my two cents... take it or leave it....

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Aug 27 at 2014 12:54 PM

CPO Rick Felty — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 12:54:04 -0400

CW2. ..in that. Light. Beings that she. Asked rather than told, as a courtesy. I suppose it was the right thing to do beings it was on the Tarmac, I agree tact should have been the key, To avoid. Hurt feelings and a confrontation. I agree in that instance.

Response by MAJ George Hamilton made Aug 27 at 2014 1:06 PM

MAJ George Hamilton — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 13:06:36 -0400

I feel that the display of the Confederate States of America Flag is racist at worst, and to be perfectly frank, ignorant at best.

1. It is the symbol of the Confederate States of America - a briefly lived country that stood for the institution of slavery and the degradation of their fellow man - period. There is not talking around that point.

2. The Confederate States of America lost the civil war - why are we still flying the flag? It makes no more sense than someone flying a Nazi flag post WWII, which brings me to my next point -

3. It is a symbol of hate in most circles, and wildly offensive. The argument of southern pride is a bogus one - as is the notion that the war itself was over states rights. We are Americans, and as such only have one flag that represents our great nation.

4. It is your First Amendment right to display it - however that right does not extend to military installations - it is contrary to good order and discipline in every sense.

Historical trivia and footnotes aside - you have to accept it for what is has become over the last 150 years - a symbol of division, hate, and ignorance.

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Aug 27 at 2014 11:41 PM

PFC Eric Minchey — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 23:41:22 -0400

I see these two things being mentioned on here a lot so here is my 2 cents on these matters

1. The actions and feelings of the KKK do NOT represent the Confederacy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCzemzjUbOA&index=3&list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7

2. The Southerners were NOT traitors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXdm7VLMJ8Q&index=6&list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Aug 27 at 2014 11:42 PM

PFC Eric Minchey — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 23:42:02 -0400

One more thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7flUYrs8X8

Response by PO3 Gordon Soderberg made Aug 28 at 2014 11:42 AM

PO3 Gordon Soderberg — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:42:22 -0400

The only thing the Confederate Flag represents is failure.

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Aug 28 at 2014 2:05 PM

CPO Rick Felty — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 14:05:47 -0400

My great grandfather was a union Sgt. From the 9th Pennsylvania as was my Great great great grandfather both were union. GGGF fought at Gettysburg, I have a picture of him ,his wife in. Her bee hive bun and him in his union Tunic. I have a copy of his diary and picture of his peach tree twigs notched from. Each battle. He was in. My GGGGF fought At Sharpsburg, Union known as Antietam.
The war has been over for over 150 years or more. The pros and cons will go on for another 150 years. It was a part of history. I am from the south. Born in Marietta Ga. Outside. Atlanta . I have lived in Texas Missouri. Georgia and. Am very proud of the south as it stands today,hospitality, friendly people, good food and atmosphere. There are customs and history from each part of the United States. We beat the French during the war of 1812 but we still drink. French wine. We were beaten at the Alamo, but we annexed Texas and California, and we eat a lot of Tex- Mex and drink Corona beer, we even beat the Red Coats from the British Empire, but we adopted a lot of thier customs. We invented a flag disturbing to the British Empire. Now.....GOING BACK TO the Flag of Dixie, it does not stand for hatred or racism, that is in the mind of the viewer, which is your. 1st AMMENDMENT rights. HOWEVER , I also have those same rights, to display. The Confederate flag where and when I want to, to remember Southern Pride, Dixie, hospitality. A beer with the good ole boys. Bubba, Buford or Mary Jane. It represents pride from being from the south and growing up in a land of near poverty for those living in near poverty and the Ozarks, but will help a neighbor out in a second. Therefore we are proud of Dixie, our way of life our customs our flag and our homeland . AGAIN RACISM AND HATRED AND THOSE THOUGHTS ARE IN THE MIND OF THE VIEWER.......NOT. THE DISPLAYER.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2014 12:21 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 00:21:54 -0400

It's funny how a one star Admiral or General fly's a confederate flag on their car or yahts. I'm talking about the Bonnie Blue Flag used by the Mississippi Army as their battle flag. And no one seems to say anything about that.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2014 12:27 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 00:27:25 -0400

It's funny how one star admirals and generals fly a confederate flag everyday, whether on their car, building, or yacht. I'm talking about the Bonnie Blue Flag which was used as the Mississippi army as their battle flag. And no one seems to talk about that.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2014 6:51 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 06:51:11 -0400

to the Southerners I've met that identify with it, they think of the flag as a symbol of the joys and values of being Southern. Most people I've met from the south don't like when someone compares them to confederate supporters but it still was used by the confederacy but I don't agree with not allowing people to show it, it is not like there is a civil war uprising starting

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2014 7:29 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 07:29:49 -0400

I'm going to keep this comment brief. If one is offended by the Confederate flag, then they know nothing about the Confederate flag.

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Sep 1 at 2014 11:51 AM

PFC Eric Minchey — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:51:30 -0400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgZTu0CzZsQ&bpctr= [login to see]

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Sep 1 at 2014 11:56 AM

PFC Eric Minchey — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:56:49 -0400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98FVtKSBCWs

I am Their Flag

Written by Ross Moore, and narrated by Michael R. Bradley. Deo Vindice!

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 3 at 2014 1:30 AM

SPC David S. — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 01:30:34 -0400

Interestingly enough California has spoken for everyone in the Golden State and is in the process of banning the display and sales of the Southern Cross and its likeness

Looks like the South will not be rising anytime soon in Cali. but then again there is the ACLU.

http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-confederate-flag-bill-20140820-story.html

Response by SGT Richard H. made Sep 3 at 2014 1:34 PM

SGT Richard H. — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:34:30 -0400

Tough call. The meat of the matter is really intent. The problem with that is that its difficult to impossible to determine intent at first glance, so someone who sees it as a symbol of racial division and hate and will be very offended, while someone else will see it as a symbol of home, and will not be.

My knee-jerk reaction is that Military Installations are just better off without it. Our bases serve one flag.

Response by COL Randall C. made Sep 3 at 2014 2:24 PM

COL Randall C. — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:24:14 -0400

I circled around to look at this thread and saw the comments were still going strong by a few. This reminds me of Anthropological Global Warming discussions where some refuse to see the view of the other side ("It's a symbol of pride and history and if you don't see it, you're ignorant!" ... "it's a hate symbol and if you fly it you're nothing but a racist!"). As LTC Paul Labrador, pointed out you need to accept the impact that symbols like this has on others - positively or negatively.

Is it a symbol of pride and history? Yes! Is it a symbol of racism? Yes! Many on both sides are correct and incorrect at the same time because as long as you discount the views of those in disagreement, then all you have is a narrow view of what "The Truth" is. The fact is that the majority of individuals have a neutral view and don't have strong feelings one way or another.

Army Command Policy specifically gives the Commander the authority to order the removal of symbols, flags, posters, or other displays in order to maintain good order and discipline (I suspect other Services do as well). As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it's another CAN versus SHOULD situation.

There are some individuals who will go out of the way to find something to be offended by. On the other hand, there might be a sizable population of people that might have a negative view instead of a few individuals. Determining which is the case and the appropriate actions needed in order to maintain the good order and discipline of the organization is the role thrust upon the Commander in these situations.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2014 2:33 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:33:57 -0400

Freedom of speech: yes.
Smart: No.

Doing this on post has only one reason I can think of, "pay attention to me."
The attention you will receive is bound to be both disruptive and negative. You will likely end up in some commander's office. So why?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2014 9:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 09:41:56 -0400

I am proud to be from the south, and more importantly, from Texas. My answer will be short and to the point. I don't celebrate failure. I am not proud of failure. If someone thinks it makes them a "rebel" to display that flag...then good on them. It makes it easier to recognize people I want nothing to do with. If you are a person that is so simple that you have an emotional connection the confederate flag....well...you are a dumb ass. I'm sure if you stepped out into traffic the world would miss the contributions you would have made.

There is only one flag I am loyal to. If This seems harsh, good. I take disloyalty to the flag of the United States of America very personal. And that is exactly what this is...don't try to twist it into something else. If you do, then you would be a disloyal coward. Our country, not ourselves.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 2:04 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 02:04:01 -0400

This issue is impact vs. intent. The intent of the individual may be Southern pride, but the impact can be different based on each individual person. It’s the nonverbal message that is important and this is where individuals can cross into the realm of an equal opportunity violation. It can be akin to displaying a swastika, a symbol that predates the Nazi party by 1000 yrs and has deep rooted religious and cultural meaning. However this meaning has been overshadowed by Adolph Hitler and Nazis. As an army we depend on each other and need to know that when the fecal matter hits an oscillating object your battle will be there for you. However if an individual is constantly watching their back because someone displays poor judgment this will have a negative impact on the units ability to function as a whole and affect the unit’s ability to complete the mission.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 11:08 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:08:40 -0400

Bottom line, you can't just wave a magic wand and expect all that has been represented by the Confederate Flag to go away just because you say so. If you want me to take you seriously about the "Heritage not Hate" bullshit, then convert to Buddhism and fly a swastika flag ..... THEN I'll take you seriously.

To insist that blacks MUST accept your version of what the flag is a symbol of and no other is to minimize how we've been treated, and how some of us are still treated today. That in and of itself makes me just want to walk away from you and not even know you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2014 2:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 14:50:03 -0400

From Texas. Wouldn't do it. My family fought for the CSA. They lost. I have no tie to that time. I was born in the United States. I'll fly a Texas flag and an American flag, because those are the only two I identify with.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2014 6:06 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 18:06:13 -0400

I personally don't think the Confederate flag is offensive at all. I see it as some honoring their heritage and history. Not bragging about the past but reflecting on love for the south. My father is 76 years old. My mother is Native American (Pure) and my dad is East Indian and Black. He was so big into history that we had Confederate Flag cups, plates, actual flags, table cloths, and much more. My father showed me that everyone has history that they represent. There are others that may use the flag in negative and offensive ways but this goes for anything. For example the biggest debate I ever got in was the use of the "N" word. For African Americans to use it seems ok but for anyone else it is a huge no no. Yet i look on as many use that word now even other races. This is the same as the flag I believe. Some may take it as history and some may not. For me I think you should show who you are and not be ashamed. If someone is offended and can CLEARLY express WHY they are offended let them do so then educate them...

(This may hit some nerves but it is my opinion)

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Sep 8 at 2014 12:41 PM

PFC Eric Minchey — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 12:41:53 -0400

The "Dispelling the propaganda" series
This is a series of videos to dispell and debunk 150 years of union propaganda and false accusations surrounding the Confederacy.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBA40FAD452C861F7

The "Dispelling the propaganda" series

This is a series of videos that I am currently working on to dispell and debunk 150 years of union propaganda and false accusations surrounding the Confedera...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2014 8:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Sep 2014 08:52:09 -0400

On Lee-Jackson Day, confederate re-enactors come to VMI to display confederate flags all over the front of the school.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Sep 12 at 2014 9:19 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:19:01 -0400

We live in a country where there was slavery under the Union Jack for about 200 years, and each flag that developed between 1776 and 1860. Around 384 years of these flags, and people are screaming about a "nation" that only existed for 4 years. Where is the indignation about slavery still being in existence in the Northern states during the civil war?

By my figuring the ratio runs about 96:1

Response by SSgt John Carroll made Sep 12 at 2014 9:58 PM

SSgt John Carroll — Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:58:56 -0400

1/2) Personally I don't care & seeing as I went to High School with a guy who not only had that on the back of his truck, on a giant belt buckle he wore proudly everyday & put it on his class ring, oh I forgot to mention yes he was black. That's right because he was born & raised in the south and had Southern Pride he loved the "Southern Flag." All I think when I see it is "Where are you from?"
(3) To answer this one here some info The Chaplain when I first got to McConnell was laid back & since I have an "Open-Christian" view on religion (I pull from many religions due to similarities) So i got a bumper sticker "333 Half Evil" That chaplain got it, no one was created perfect & all that. This is the Chaplain that was invited to my wedding as a guest.
After he left the new Chaplain saw me at the bank on base & his IMMEDIATE response; no hi, hey , how are you... nope straight to "What the hell is this, Are you some sort of Devil Worshiper; I don't ever want to see this again, you aught to be ashamed of yourself!" After resisting the urge to return the verbal lashing, I got into my truck & drove off never really bothered with chaplains since. if even 1 man with so low humility, who was so overbearing & disrespectful was to call himself a Chaplain then I wasn't going to bother going to that "Chapel" on Base again.
The problem is if you are going to be in the military you ARE going to have many people from many backgrounds if someone can't loose the ready, fire, aim attitude then they will never fully integrate anywhere they go & will be the one to suffer because when they've burned all the bridges in the first week somewhere, things will only keep going down hill from there & they'll will be the problem, no one else should have to take blame for someone else's ignorance.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2014 12:21 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 12:21:35 -0400

Let's share another point of view. Allow me to establish a credential as recipient of the NAACP Roy Wilkens award selection representing US Army Europe several years ago (for taking great risk in supporti of women and minorities.) That was part of a result of a substantiated DOD case where I had to force certain issues to resolution or go down with the ship. And no, I am not a zealot nor holier-than-thou crusader. I just like to be on the right side of right; made up my mind long ago to do my duty and to do it well; and if the day came that the Green Machine wants to slam dunk you for doing it, you must take a stand. For you must stand for something or you will for anything. Part of that time I also served as acting Garrison CSM at an installation where there was some rather serious leadership and puported racial issues. No doubt there were all kinds of issues simmering. From my perspective, the main issue was the failure to maintain order and discipline among a specific skill set that shall remain nameless. Anyone who did their duty was undermined and looked like the Ugly Duckling. Secondary to that was the command's propensity to act upon malicious gossip rather than fact, which was a tendency exploited by one or two individuals in the senior leadership as a divisive tactic to play other senior leaders against one another. Rebel flags came into the picture when a group of disgruntled officers--yes commissioned officers--in the medical unit made allegations of racial discrimination. They did so on the front page of a local newspaper, in uniform (contrary to army regs), and we had evidence that in two or more of their allegations, they personally arranged for the mischief--(1) small rebel flags placed on vehicles that were photographed and given media as "Evidence" of a negative racial climate and (2) personal procurement of the few copies of JET/BET magazine sold on base as "evidence" that the commander had somehow "stopped distro" which he of course did not. The brought in the rush to judgement as set the command up to look foolish, because dealing with the real issues involving the officers--which never came to public light--took a back seat to the media circus. During that time another former officer, a minority, who allegedly once had a poor OER hunted down the (white) officer who wrote it and shot him with a shot gun on the back porch of the HQ. Meanwhile I did what one is supposed to do with little or no support. That was not a fun time. However, the system does work, only very very slowly. So if there is some rule banning confederate flags, it was not in effect at that time. Long story, but one that could make a movie.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 15 at 2014 9:16 AM

Cpl Chris Rice — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:16:34 -0400

To preface this I would like to state that I was a History major for a period of time, and that I have read my fair share of history books. I disagree whole heartedly with the flying of the CSA flag on US military instillations, whether the instillation is in the North or the South. To me you are asking to fly the banner of those people who instead of striving to work out their differences with their countrymen through the mechanisms of the Republic, decided instead to take up arms. At every opportunity after the end of the War great mercy was shown to men that were not prisoners of war, but men who had committed treason. Jefferson Davis the President of the CSA spent 2 years in prison; while the leader of the Union was assassinated in the Ford Theater. The Union sent troops, and resources to the south to secure the peace, and quickly reintegrated them into the American fold, and what do they wish to do? They wish to fly the banner under which they fired into the lines of men who were Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines of the United States Military, an organization they wish to belong to. We as a nation should forgive the transgressions of both sides, but do not say it Unites us to fly the flag under which they tried to divide us. My $0.02

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2014 1:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:06:23 -0400

Solely in answer the original posters question.
Looking at symbolism alone as what this flag represented in our nations history, an part of our nation attempting to secede from the union. When that failed these states attempted a revolution to become a new nation which was not part of the union. They failed in this venture.

When you take the oath of enlistment you swear to support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

Looking at it solely from that perspective if your bearing true faith and allegiance to the united states of america, you shouldn't be displaying the flag of the area which attempted to revolt against it.

I am from California, you don't see me displaying Mexico's flag everywhere nor would I want to because i not a Mexican. I am an American and my faith and Loyalty lies with the United States of America. I love the area I grew up in. I love how diverse and cultured it is. I love its history with the Hispanic missions the pacific railroad, the gold rush, and the launching of the internet and the information age. I would never however fly or display the Mexican or Californian flag on post because my loyalty lies to the constitution of the united states.

Response by PO1 Shannon Drosdak made Sep 19 at 2014 1:23 AM

PO1 Shannon Drosdak — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 01:23:30 -0400

I have never seen an issue with it on may base i worked on.
I am going to say simply this. Should we ban country flags from being on a POV? There's tons of them out their? Or what about sports teams? How about gay pride flags on cars? Or the co-exist stickers? The cross or the fish symbols? Those are just some that can cause feelings of hurt and offense can't they? Where do we start? Where do we stop? Cultural Diversity is one thing they constantly bang into our heads, so if a southern male or female is proud of their southern roots than what would be the argument? You're racist? It's offensive to others? We have to stop being so sensitive about peoples pride in their cultures, to stop associating things constantly with the "bad" it could be. We need to worry more about what we are doing to offend others rather than what others are doing to offend us. We have become a world full of "overly sensitive, you hurt my feelings by wearing that you don't treat me equally as her/him or speaking with that accent or looking at me oddly" people. and I have to admit it's only gotten worse because of all the political influence and attention. We have let it get way out of hand.

Response by Sgt Randy Novak made Sep 19 at 2014 1:45 PM

Sgt Randy Novak — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:45:52 -0400

It only becomes a problem if you or the Nay-sayer is racist. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. People will always bitch and cry over someone else's style, taste, or preference. I look at it this way, if what you are doing doesn't cause harm and somebody doesn't like it... F#@k em'. That's why God made you who you are.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Sep 28 at 2014 7:18 PM

1LT William Clardy — Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:18:09 -0400

Being a native-born Virginian, I have what may appear to be contradictory answers to your questions.

(1) On or off post, any soldier proudly displaying the flag of the Confederate States of America should be reminded that they are implicitly endorsing either an alliance which waged war on the United States (during the War of Northern Aggression) or a treasonous insurrection waged against the Constitution of the United States (during the Civil War). Such an endorsement runs counter to the oath he (or she) took, and I suspect that no court would consider such a public expression to be speech protected from the military discipline.

(2) Despite my oath-bound answer above, the Confederate flag symbolizes the paradox of the Second Amendment, where the right to arm ourselves for defense against tyranny is spelled out but with no mention of the fact that any such actual defense would be the very legal definition of treason.

(3) I've lost count of how many military situations I've been in which offended someone.
That said, I've always felt that you can't be in a profession that calls for skill in breaking things and hurting people while still worrying about hurt feelings. Many, many years ago I used to drop in on meetings of Students Opposed to the Nuclear Arms Race right after ROTC Leadership Lab, sometimes still cammied up from field training. I found it amusing how visitors from elsewhere would frequently look disgusted, but the university students seemed to enjoy my contributions to the discussion (things like explaining why World War III wouldn't be over in 30 minutes after a single massive missile volley). It's amazing what being polite and careful about your facts can do for discussing serious matters with folks who are really open-minded.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Oct 4 at 2014 10:38 AM

SSG Maurice P. — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:38:18 -0400

CAPT Kletzing on the other hand off duty military people who display black red and green in their civillian attire offends me,the same way the confederate flag offends them...tit for tat!

Response by LTC Mark Gavula made Oct 4 at 2014 11:31 AM

LTC Mark Gavula — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 11:31:20 -0400

While on active duty, I was fortunate not to have dealt with this issue. I am not aware of any regulation that governs this, but I am sure there is an interpretation or legal opinion somewhere. I personally don't care because I don't think it is a sign of racism but a historic and lineage symbol. However, any individual displaying the confederate symbol should just be prepared to receive pushback. Then decide whether the displaying of this symbol is worth falling on your sword.

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Oct 9 at 2014 1:06 PM

PFC Eric Minchey — Thu, 09 Oct 2014 13:06:15 -0400

"Every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late. It means the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern schoolteachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision. It is said slavery is all we are fighting for, and if we give it up we give up all. Even if this were true, which we deny, slavery is not all our enemies are fighting for. It is merely the pretense to establish sectional superiority and a more centralized form of government, and to deprive us of our rights and liberties."--- Maj. General Patrick R. Cleburne, CSA.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Oct 10 at 2014 3:28 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 15:28:19 -0400

I know it is a Symbol of Southern Heritage and Roots and I understand the need to carry some pride in ones roots. Also no matter how much I would love to slam it. I am a Proud Razorback that served on the USS Arkansas CGN-41 and our Ships Flag was a variation of this Flag so it would be a bit Hypocritical for me to Bitch about it now.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2014 9:08 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 21:08:25 -0400

Just like all these 'talking points' we get a blizzard of political chaff that is meant to keep us from working together. Sure you have the pinheads who exploit the racists and their rants but then you get people blending the term 'redneck' and the rebel flag as being one and the same.

So as 1LT Sandy Annala alluded to, there is a lot of baloney that is 'urban legend' and that urban legend is a destructive political force. While I personally would not fly that flag, it has nothing to do with it per se and it has everything to do with the fact that I am not southern and can't relate to General Lee. But I do respect that part of culture who had their way of life, exclusive of slavery and oppression.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2014 10:49 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 22:49:26 -0400

CPL Torrence Williams What is with the cutting and pasting. It sounds more like contrived talking points and is coercive in nature. You are not engaging anyone but you are engaging in a written monologue with your mind already made up. It dishonors us all and is provocative!

Response by PO3 Gordon Soderberg made Oct 12 at 2014 9:42 PM

PO3 Gordon Soderberg — Sun, 12 Oct 2014 21:42:00 -0400

What ever makes you feel good about where you are from fly their flag all you want. Since american politics has been corrupted by football TBI mentality for the last 100 years it is only natural for a kid to tag himself with the fucking logo of the local team. In this case the South. By the way, they lost 0=1.

Response by PO3 Shaun Taylor made Oct 13 at 2014 2:44 AM

PO3 Shaun Taylor — Mon, 13 Oct 2014 02:44:24 -0400

To some people it really is JUST about southern pride.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 12:03 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 12:03:52 -0400

Is that flag not the battle standard of a defeated enemy military? If you are in the US military you are an active member of what used to be the Union Army/North. Symbols of racism/culture argument aside, it would be like displaying a WWII era German flag or a NK flag, and before anyone calls me a damn Yankee, my grandmother still calls it the war of northern aggression. The point is, you voluntarily joined the military of the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America so their battle standard has no business on base.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 2:57 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:57:33 -0500

Though very misguided and presenting an extreme example of bad judgement I am sure it is a freedom of expression issue though many places it would be out of character and could be deemed against good order and discipline. This type of expression would be akin to displaying the swastika if your heritage and ancestors fought on the German side of WW II. Though not an official flag of the CSA, it was a flag of The Flagship army of the Confederate Cause. Which fought for a nation rebelling against the nation, the institution of slavery and the perpetuation of higher classes. if that is the message you want to send as a soldier and leader in our armed forces; then you are a success. Would question your thought process and judgement though; but would respect your ability to make yourself look like a fool. I would ask anyone I came into contact with who thought that type of expression worthy to try and think a little deeper about their decision and be more selfless and a better representative of our Armed forces; not of the Confederate cause...

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Jan 13 at 2015 3:10 PM

TSgt Kevin Buccola — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:10:58 -0500

I was born and raised in the South - I feel the Confederate Flag is a part of our Country's History - like it or not. Depends on how the flag is used or displayed. Last year at a Mardi Gras parade and band from a all black school came through and they were awesome, everyone was cheering etc, then this group of people across the street who had their confederate flags out waving them at the students and booing was only out for hatred. Me being the strong silent type went over after the parade and told them they should be ashamed of themselves for the way they acted and it was very disrespectful etc and naturally they called me names and I just laughed moved on.

You cannot tell anyone that they cannot put items on their privately owned vehicles or what you can display on your private property. However on base you should not have confederate flags on your base house. If you have items on your vehicle that are indecent and offensive nature then the base commander should be able to do something about it.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 13 at 2015 5:32 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:32:32 -0500

Strongly opposed to display.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 5:34 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:34:33 -0500

When my youngest brother was an active-duty Marine, he came home on leave one time with a big-ass, dinner plate sized, Confederate flag buckle. I told him to take the POS off and he said he was expressing his "Southern Pride." I explained to him that I didn't have a problem with him being proud of being from Texas, but that he shouldn't be a "proud Southerner" because if the Confederates had been completely successful, neither of us would be here. Then I told him the story of the Massacre on the Nueces (my great-great-great grandfather was a survivor who ended up as a Union Captain). He never wore that buckle again...

NUECES, BATTLE OF THE | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)

NUECES, BATTLE OF THE. The Civil War skirmish known as the battle of the Nueces took place on the morning of August 10, 1862, when a force of Hill Country Unionists, encamped en route to Mexico on the west bank of the Nueces River about twenty miles from Fort Clark in present-day Kinney County, were attacked by mounted Confederate soldiers. The Unionists, mostly German intellectuals led by Maj. Fritz Tegener, had camped without choosing a...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 7:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:11:20 -0500

I could see an NCOER bullet point for poor judgement.

Flying the flag of a defeated traitorous enemy with strong connotations of racism and intolerance. Yeah that could reflect poorly on the soldier.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 7:47 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:47:04 -0500

Displays racism because it was used as the flag of the south where there was more racism to me if you fly it you're flying it with the knowledge that it represents racism among other things and I think the racism triumphs the other things.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 7:59 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:59:56 -0500

As much as I try not to judge people, and I will alway continue to get to know people before I open up to them about things like that with them. Every person I've met so far who has had that flag around and proudly displayed has been really rude about me being born in a northern state(which bothers me souly because I don't control where I'm born) and they also have been pretty racist. I will happily change that opinion as soon as people prove me wrong, but what that flag represents to me is a rude racist person who refuses to accept things about people that they literally have no control over.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 13 at 2015 9:46 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 21:46:12 -0500

To judge before investigating and to say, "oh he's white so he is racist" would actually make one racist. If someone wants to fly the confederate flag, I don't care. They would be able to as free people.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Jan 13 at 2015 11:04 PM

SFC Collin McMillion — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 23:04:31 -0500

I, like you, have some strong feelings about this, but would it be infringement on his personal liberties to deny this?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:12 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 00:12:49 -0500

Honestly sir, I think this rule is a bit ridiculous. Originally being from Iowa, I was not accustomed to seeing the Confederate flag. However, I married someone from Georgia and her family takes great pride in being from the South.

I think too many people view the flag as a sign of racism, while those proudly showing their heritage are doing it for just that reason.

We are currently undergoing a race issue... again. But the media blows it way out of proportion. To me, the Confederate flag is no different than the flags people hang from their mirromirror representing their heritage (Brazil, Mexico, Australia, etc.).

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Jan 14 at 2015 12:32 AM

MSG Scott McBride — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 00:32:46 -0500

You know, this rather fragile subject has been argued for as long as I can remember and now it's on RP. I'm not reading all of the responses to this question, but I will tell you this...I'm not from the south, but to me, that flag as it is today represents ones heritage and freedom where so many have fought and died; not racism or hate. Yes, at one time it represented a set of ideals that made sense to those at that time which included slavery. Mistakes were certainly made. What government hasn't made mistakes? Were you there? (Every ethinicity and race on this planet have been slaves, slave owners, or killed others for their ideals at one time or another) The confederacy also meant a split from the traditional government wrong doings at that time as well. Its unfortunate we still associate the civil war and the "stars and bars" with slavery and hate...As a whole, it was not about either. Now get back to work.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jan 14 at 2015 8:47 AM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 08:47:37 -0500

Having spent a lot of time in virginia, having seen a lot of "the south will rise again" kind of people, I shake my head when i see the confederate flag. I can't see how people have so much pride in it, it wasn't used much in the antibellum period, then what it stood for lost the war and in reconstruction it was used by those who wanted to keep oppressing black people. I just don't see it as a "heritage" item. Have seen it used for purposes of repression and racism.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 14 at 2015 9:53 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 09:53:55 -0500

The Civil War was fought over slavery. (That's a period at the end of that sentence.)

Sorry.

That's the truth of the matter.

Any attempt to paint the "Rebellion" as a fight for States Rights is simply not true. It's historical revisionism, and faces a flood tide of actual documentation laying out the real issue - slavery. (Again, period)

And, no, the evils of slavery didn't end with the end of slavery. It is a festering wound that still infects America today because there are still a number of people who insist on their truth that slavery was justified.

The Confederate banner is inextricably linked to that cause.

Again, sorry.

It's true.

I too think that there's a certain appeal to its color and design, but I can't see past the evil it implies.

So, wear it if you must. Display it if you must.

Just don't be surprised that some take offense.

You are linking arms with evil.

That doesn't make you evil.

But it does cause you to suffer guilt by association.

That being said, I understand that there are many to whom the image of being a rebel has a certain appeal. (I'm one.) And there is a flag that properly represents the spirit of rebellion as well as the legitimate struggle for States Rights over and against a blotted federal bureaucracy growing tyrannical as it grows in size beyond constitutional limits. It is the Gadsden Flag embellished with a rattlesnake proclaiming "Don't tread on me".

Inasmuch as the Gadsden Flag is today associated with the TEA Party don't be surprised if it too is forbidden on military posts some day. Not because commanders revile it, but rather because their political superiors revile it.

And don't be phased by claims that the Gadsden Flag represents slavery and racial discrimination like the Stars 'n Bars. These are pejoratives that have been launched against conservatives without evidence in an effort to shut them up.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jan 14 at 2015 10:01 AM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:01:26 -0500

I am from Alabama and the Confederate Daughters of the Revolution still fly a garrison sized one off of I-65 south. What it symbolizes to me strictly is history and one that is past, not present. I am not offended nor proud of what it has become. Some folks have used it as a symbol of a negative feeling or representation of hatred. It is a shame that has been the case. The state flags that have had to change due to political correctness is a shame also. Would any of us like to be say 40 or 50 years old (young compared to the age and history of a state) and be told our name is offensive and have to change it? I think not. I do not have offense to the flag itself, but if someone is clearly displaying it to offend someone, I think we all can identify that situation rather clearly. That to me is not tolerable and should be addressed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 1:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 13:13:56 -0500

With regards to the Stars and Bars, perception is everything. It will vary from person to person, whether they view its purposes for history, racism, or just a memory of home. That being said, I really have no problem, as long as it's displayed with respect and decency.

Response by SFC Jason Porter made Jan 14 at 2015 5:52 PM

SFC Jason Porter — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:52:04 -0500

The confederate flag once represented heritage of the South and how are Nation was split because of beliefs. A lot of American men died for that flag! What has happened the confederate flag was hijacked by the KKK, skinheads..etc etc. I see the flag for what it is.. History...while others see it as a bad thing! My thoughts.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jan 14 at 2015 11:07 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 23:07:23 -0500

1LT L S , your impassioned defense of SSG Porter is commendable, but do you know the back story to the issue? Firstly, no one threatened him with any UCMJ actions. He was merely warned that as a still active Soldier publicly denigrating the President of the United States was a stupid and potentially career-ending undertaking. His service, however commendable, does not make him immune to the repercussions of his own actions. You mentioned his various deployments in an Infantry capacity, again that is commendable and as an Infantry officer that would normally endear him to me but there is a reason I have called him out. How many of your Soldiers would call you a punk, how many will also be disrespectful to your 1SG? SSG Porter has done both to Officers and senior NCOs at rallypoint. Perhaps this tidbit will help temper your defense of his actions.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 6:56 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 06:56:38 -0500

These are the things that start fights but I will weigh my two cents like anyone else. No I don't think it would be waved around on a military installation for the meaning it has. Might not be the meaning it has for all people but what the flag stands for is ignorance of the foulest kind.

I have plenty of airmen who tell me that isn't what it means to them and they are welcome that freedom but when something like that becomes a poster for racism, sorry it is sort of hard to mean much else.

I have met both kinds of people that fly this very flag, so I have heard every reason on why it is okay to a person. However, what it currently means in the large part of todays society, this flag shouldn't be flown on a military installation out of respect for your brother who has every right to be offended by it.

Response by SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS made Jan 15 at 2015 7:39 AM

SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:39:58 -0500

(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?

My first impression is the person displaying this flag probably would attack me if he had the chance, because of what economic system fueled its origins. I think of Willie Lynch a businessman in the slave industry around the world. This is my opinion only, here is a statement he made while speaking to slave owners somewhere in the colony of Virginia in 1712,

“I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves, and I take these differences and make them bigger. I use fear, distrust, and envy for control purposes. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies, and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little test of differences and think about them. On the top of my list is "Age", but it is there because it only starts with an "A"; the second is "Color" or shade; there is intelligence, size, sex, size of plantations, attitude of owners, whether the slaves live in the valley, on a hill, East, West, North, South, have fine or coarse hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences, I shall give you an outline of action--but before that, I shall assure you that distrust is stronger than trust, and envy is stronger than adulation, respect, or admiration” (African American images, 2015 p. 1). http://www.africanamericanimages.com/aai/willie%20lynch.htm

Fact or fiction this individual or someone made up served as a catalyst to perpetuate the success of an economic system based off human labor for hundreds of years. This cannot be disputed.

As a black man this strikes me with fear. To think our Constitution once authorized this type of doctrine is even more terrifying. In addition, the reality is, some Americans still view this man (or the idea) in high regard today not only in the south.

I think of President Woodrow Wilson, who brought segregation to the North in the federal government. This flag represents the reality that with enough votes our Constitution can return to the acceptance of the doctrine translated into something else.

I don’t see it as a racial superiority issue as much as an economic belief system that used slaves all around the world as production capital. Some may say that the Bible condones slavery. Well, I was fortunate enough to hold a real slave bible from the 1800’s in my hand from a Professor from Colorado State foreign policy class in 2002. The bible is saw had verses in there reflected the 18th century ideas of what being a slave should be twisting the Bible texts out of context. Easy because speaking African language slaves probably did not know any better.

My second impression is the individual displaying the flag may have family legacy that may not have ties or beliefs to slavery, but was part of the Confederate Nation.

I think of a conversation I had with a German National who taught school at our American High School in Vilseck Germany. We started talking about Hitler. He said that Hitler was a good leader that got Germany out of their economic depression, but he did not agree with his racial superiority and world dominance agendas. His father was an officer in the SS before and during WWII. I think if we get past the high octane emotions of the fluff we can begin to find a path to snuffing out racial hate.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 11:57 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:57:49 -0500

I personally don't understand why people are so proud of the Confederate flag or why it is still flying any place in this country 150 years after the Civil War. From the flag's very conception it was Anti-American. It was flown by people who wanted nothing to do with America any more, and decided to start their own country. It is a complete contradiction to fight for the American flag and defend the Confederate one at the same time. Regardless of how it reminds southerners of fond memories of home, that doesn't change what the flag represents. To think that you can just change what something like that represents after 4 years of Civil War is as misguided as African Americans saying they are putting a positive spin on the N word by using it to address each, or dropping the "er" and replacing it with an "a". That word still means what it was originally intended to, and so does the flag. Then you throw on all the racial connotations associated with it as well. To me it's a no brainer. What's even more ironic is a lot of times people that support the Confederate Flag are the same people who get mad at Mexicans and Puerto Ricans for displaying their home country's flag in America. At least those flags aren't Anti-American.

Response by PFC Jim Mills made Jan 15 at 2015 1:55 PM

PFC Jim Mills — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 13:55:49 -0500

Growing up in the north and the south and having family from both and african American family aswell this has been a discussion many times and we have all come to the conclusion that the only reason the flag is an issue are people that use race as a way to build there own agendas !! Like the way the whole ferguson issue was carried on and now we have more hate and discontent and dead police officers ! The the problem is racism is a double edged sword and without proper education it will always make hearts bleed

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 16 at 2015 2:16 AM

SGT Michael Glenn — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 02:16:49 -0500

Kinda turning the table a bit here...but could someone please explain to me why a vehicle is dubbed a POV when its not??? when I was stationed in Germany I was a Neo warden and it was our job to ensure that we told all soldiers who had said POV to keep them fully tanked at all times in case we had to evacuate.The vehicles would be used to transport personnel as needed and then be disposed of as needed. Also while stationed in Germany I was told countless times that its not a right to own said POV but a privilege and if the commander didnt want a specific soldier to have one they couldnt. Also I was told that a vehicle that has Government plates or a military sticker in the windshield is government property. We had a soldier who was late for roll out, the company area was down hill a good half mile from the motor pool, so he threw all his gear into his trunk to include his weapon.When he got to the motor pool someone saw him pulling all this "sensitive Item gear " from his POV, the next thing he knew he was receiving a field grade for this, but it was dropped because the argument was brought up that a POV isnt in fact a POV but belongs to the Government. Clarification anyone ??? Ohh and by the way country boys will be country boys will be country boys....just saying....

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 3:22 AM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 03:22:27 -0500

A question for those who find this flag offensive due to the acts of a few closed minded/racist men. Do we ban the cross because the KKK consoder themselves chrsitian? Do we ban the half moon with the star because it represents islam and terrorist claim to be muslims?

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 4:57 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 04:57:25 -0500

The Confederate Flag is misunderstood. It was never carried into battle.

Each state carried its State Flag into battle, as there was more sense of belonging to a state than a nation (obviously) during the Civil War.

So for those who think that the Confederate Flag everyone sees now, was a battle standard, are mistaken. And while we're talking about misconceptions, the Civil War was NOT about slavery; it was about States' Rights vs. Preserving the Union. Lincoln himself was ambivalent about slavery, and wrote that if he could preserve the Union without abolishing slavery, he would do that. Slavery was simply a wedge issue that became a theme in the war.

Response by Sgt Bill Right made Jan 16 at 2015 5:02 AM

Sgt Bill Right — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 05:02:43 -0500

After reading many comments on the subject at hand what I find more interesting is that patriotism often blinds people to the truth-often plain truth that is readily available. There's a lot of things that we were all taught in school that's just not true under the light of day. Examples are: The Mississippi is the longest river in the United States (but it's not); The cheetah is the fastest land animal (but it's not); bad weather sank the Spanish Armada (but the ship and port logs all around of all the British ships at sea and in port had reported good weather ten days before and after that alleged event); however, I could continue and burst some of your ignorant patriotic or scientific beliefs but I won't. An exception I will make will be disregarded by 90% of the readers. No northern state legislature declared nor enforced the abolition of slavery but several southern states did in the 1850s. All ignorant people believe whatever they are told and this case if you just disregard my words without further research then you are nothing more than an ignorant hayseed and ten times worse than any self-proclaimed redneck; additionally, you believe that 2 plus 2 equals 7 in this analogy. Did it ever occur to any of you that are currently disregarding my comments that it's rather strange that the slave railroad was operated in northern states? Why? I would answer it for you but that would spoil your soon to be self discovery and your liberation from lies that divide and destabilize educated patriotism. But I digress, most of you won't read my comments down this far because you are truly bigoted and permanently enslaved in your ignorance. Truly, ignorance is bliss. If you live near or visit Fort Hood, then go to the last lobby outside of the NCOA classrooms and look at the miniature paintings of the southern armies. Or don't.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 8:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 08:13:06 -0500

I'm from the state they guy in the original picture is from (NC) and I grew up seeing the rebel flag almost on a daily basis. I personally don't have an issue with it. It represents southern pride, even though some people use it to incite hate. There were more Americans of African descent that fought for the south than the north. My only issue silly as it may be is when I see people from northern states with the flag I can of feel like there posing.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 16 at 2015 11:30 AM

SGT Michael Glenn — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 11:30:52 -0500

How would any of you react to say ...winning a clone or an actual Dukes of Hazard General Lee? would you keep the flag or get rid of it and down value the vehicle????I my self dont have a stand one way or the other, if a soldier is awesome in what they do and a hard charger always in the thick of things would it really matter what he drives or has on his vehicle or belt buckle??? If the person was a total reject and their name was amended into the UCMJ then why is that person still a soldier????

Response by PO1 Ron Clark made Jan 16 at 2015 1:03 PM

PO1 Ron Clark — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 13:03:09 -0500

I know that I may ruffle some feathers here, however, personally there should be only one flag displayed on a U.S. Military base! Old Glory! That being said, some people feel that the Confederate flag is something honorable to be displayed, I beg to differ. The folks fighting for what they believe in is honorable, but, people attempting to over throw a standing are known as insurgents, definition is as follows: "Insurgent" a person who rises in forcible opposition to lawful authority, especially a person who engages in armed resistance to a government or to the execution of its laws; rebel. Its very offensive and has no place to be displayed on a military other than inside someones' domicile.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 2:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:59:54 -0500

Am I the only one who is wondering about the "OBAMA 08" lettering in the photo?

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 6:32 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 18:32:40 -0500

A great forum. FREEDOM of expression is one of the things we fight for as active, reserve and national guardsmen.
Shaking someone's hand with your left hand is a symbol of disrespect... But it happens and no one loses sleep over it.
To most here....do the research on the flag in question. When one builds a case on "notions" it makes you look silly.
The bottom line is very blurry here..and permit me to explain. IF this flag is a symbol of racism...WHY are there large groups of Blacks hanging around each other on post in public? Same thing can be said about whites, Latinos, Asians and the whole lot of folks. ARE WE NOT all GREEN?
That action in itself is a symbol of racism...I hear the whole flurry of excuses...."white folks don't understand", "black folks are don't like hanging around with us"....blah blah blah....We are ALL American...we speak English....so what's the deal?
If you as an individual are too self inverted to take the time....AS A LEADER...to acknowledge, ask and get to know one another....then that in itself is a ignorant view of expression and what the term actually means.
The flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is similar to someone having a close feeling about a football team...or basketball team. Why do people wear sports jerseys on post? SAME REASON...different rationale. It is a symbol that defines an individual.
I can call Cowboys fans homos....or Lakers fans knuckledraggers....its the same logic....it is a symbol of pride to you...the individual. You never played on the team...you aren't an NFL or NBA player....but you still say " we had a bad season....bad game...we won...etc."
Would you like to be judged as a coward, a traitor, a racist, or just plain ignorant for being a fan of those faggety assed sports?
If that struck a chord in you...(and the above is just being used as an example)...just think about that when you see others having pride in something different than you. It doesn't make it wrong...or gives you the right to pass judgment... It just means that someone has pride in something that has value to them.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 6:50 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 18:50:17 -0500

I once had a roommate who hailed from Upper Michigan, but he flew the Battle Flag on the wall of our barracks room proudly. Once time, a health and welfare inspection came around and a SFC, who was black, ordered my roomie to remove that flagged based on racism. Naturally, my roomie followed the order, but at the same time, he expressed his concerns about a fellow Soldier across the hall that had a Malcolm X flag on his wall. As soon as this issue hit the 1SG desk, he simply said any and all flags are to not be displayed. He didn't care what kind of flag it was. If it was a flag, or a picture of a flag, it wasn't getting posted.

Response by SPC Christopher Morehouse made Jan 17 at 2015 11:42 AM

SPC Christopher Morehouse — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:42:50 -0500

My personal belief is that it is unappropriated. Regardless of your personal beliefs on the purpose and ramifications of the Civil War, and what the symbol means to you, the fact of the matter is it is the flag of a belligerent organization which violated the US Constitution. It was an enemy of which the United States Army fought it's bloodiest war. I do not believe it appropriate for US military members to take up the symbol of an enemy of which no peace was ever attained. I would expect US military not to fly the flag of North Korea, Nazi Germany, The Soviet Union, or the Saddam Regime Iraqi flag.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 17 at 2015 12:17 PM

Sgt Adam Jennings — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:17:17 -0500

What I think the problem is is that people are way too sensitive these days and let too many things that they really don't understand bother them. Also the majority of people are extremely uneducated on ALL of the issues that caused the Civil War, slavery was but one. How many times are we told to be tolerant of things just to have intolerance of our own opinions thrown in our faces because it might offend someone?

For instance, if people would actually educate themselves a little bit on the Civil War they, including those idiots in the KKK, would know that the battle flag was never an official flag of te CSA. It was only used in battle to differentiate forces because the First National Flag of the Confederacy, or the Stars and Bars, looked too much like the U.S. flag. Also the Second and Third National Flags of the Confederacy were mostly white and looked too much like a flag of surrender, even after a red bar was added to the end of the Third flag. So, battle commanders took the image in the upper left corner of the Second and Third flags and made a battle flag out of them. There are also other flags from the confederacy which don't invoke anger from the PC group which throws out the whole, "that flag represents slavery argument". If that were the case then why don't people get mad when they see a Hardee flag or a Bonnie Blue Flag? Because for the most part they are uneducated on the Civil War and too sensitive.

But, that is just my $0.02 worth though.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 12:24 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:24:40 -0500

The flag is to me like the "Allah Huwa Akbar" shout. It means one thing to devout muslims but to me it sez "Take cover, lock and load etc" The CSA flag has multiple interpretations. One's race and region likely serve as good predictors of your opinion on it.

In all likelihood few KKK types are openly running around advertising bigotry. Though I don't have any flag decal on any POV I have for years been involved with SCV. Sons of Confederate Veterans is not threat to anyone. No political agenda beyond their own self-described commitment to "Historical accuracy" as it pertains to "heritage violations"
And yet thru neglect and indifference the CSA battle flag increasingly has been commandeered by Klanners and other kooks, despite the best efforts of SCV to deny the flag's use to advance any modern 20th or 21st century political/racist agenda.

White good old boys are loyal to the south. That doesnt mean they celebrate George Wallace or Lester Maddux or Orval Faubus or (insert segregationist name here). For most folks I suspect the CSA flag is a point of "ethnic pride" not unlike the way Puerto Rican troops (even those born here in CONUS with zero connection to the island anymore) adorn their POVs with the flag of their beloved Commonwealth. Remember if the flag has blue stripes and a star on a RED field you may or may not be facing an ally!!

If you want to venerate the bravery of an ancestor (which is really what most old SCV folks want most to do) use the CSA "national flag": it is 7 stars in a circle on a blue field. Then to the right of the star circle is a broad red/white/red triple stripes.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 17 at 2015 12:26 PM

Sgt Adam Jennings — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:26:03 -0500

Case in point. When Gov. Barnes changed the Georgia state flag that had the battle flag on it in 2001 that was mostly a push from the NAACP and people mostly oitside of our state. Then Gov. Perdue let us vote on a new flag in 2003. This one is basically the First National Flag of the Confederacy with our state seat inside the circle of stars and the words "In God We Trust" as well.

What I think is funny is the state has had no problems with this flag as far as the NAACP claiming it to be racist. Why? I believe it's because most people have no idea that this is actually a copy of a confederate flag. It's all hypocritical of you ask me. From the pictures below you can see why we hated the 2001-2002 flag. I have them ordered 1957-2001 first, 2001-2002 second, and 2003-present third.

Response by CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner made Jan 17 at 2015 12:58 PM

CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:58:36 -0500

I think we are too easily offended. I see flags of various places where human rights are trampled upon (i.e. Haiti , Africa) and no one bats an eye! The Confederate Flag IS a part of American History, those who display it are not necessarily paying homage to slavery, but to their Southern roots. Is everyone who buys white sheets a part of the Klan? Will the. PX stop selling white sheets because they offend someone?

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 3:21 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:21:33 -0500

I am wondering what the regulations are as to the Rainbow Coalition Flag or the Coexist Banner were to be flown. They also represent a philosophy and an embodiment of the values of a people.

What about more of the Global Flags for a one people / one world?

I have spent the past 2 hours reading the many replies to this, most are extremely thought out and offer a very good perspective and how they personally or with family feel on this and why.

There is only one question that needs to be asked.....

When "Colors" plays, which flag do you turn and salute as a member of the United States Military?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 5:11 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 17:11:32 -0500

I see nothing wrong with the flag, I'm from the south and its a southern thing some of my closest friends growing up had them on their cars and it didn't bother me at all.

Response by PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) made Jan 17 at 2015 6:29 PM

PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:29:42 -0500

I have no problem with the confederate flag as long as it's flown for the right reason and not as a statement of being a racist biggest.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 9:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 21:33:26 -0500

As an EOL (Equal Opportunity Leader), my best advice is to refrain from using or displaying such symbols of controversy, even more so after recent events. I personally find it in poor taste, as well as disrespectful to display such "heritage". Keep it at YOUR HOME... it is not worth the risk of losing a career by creating hostile dialog leading to complaints. Just my two cents worth.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 18 at 2015 12:27 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 00:27:34 -0500

I have dealt with this issue since my days as a HS in NJ, in the NY Metro Area. As a company commander, as TAC at West Point, as BN and BDE Commander, and now a HS teacher in Missouri.

Symbols (which this is) mean different things to different people. In NJ, it means/meant a redneck and racist hatred. Here redneck is considered to be in vogue.

In my view, this flag, symbol, etc, should never be displayed anywhere... let alone on a military members clothing, skin, or vehicle. Regardless of what non-racist things they may state it means... for far too many Americans this symbol means nothing but evil and hatred.

To me, displaying it is simply insensitive at best.

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Feb 6 at 2015 7:09 PM

PFC Eric Minchey — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 19:09:14 -0500

http://www.vice.com/read/welcome-to-americana-brazil-0000580-v22n2?utm_source=digg&utm_medium=email

The Brazilian Town Where the American Confederacy Lives On | VICE | United States

The Confederados are one of the last remaining enclaves of the children of the unreconstructed South.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 7:52 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 19:52:56 -0500

I can appreciate that for some the confederate flag represents positive things like being a Southerner and the good elements of southern history but to me it has too much baggage associated with racism, slavery and the civil war so I'd prefer it not be flown. That being said, I'm not going to freak out if some military members want to display it. It's a free country.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 8:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 20:07:44 -0500

Here is the thing, if you are actually offended by the Conferderate Flag I think you need to read history... The feelings of hatred, hurt etc... Actually stem from a common misconception that the flag represented slavery or racism, the reality is the flag represented the right of the states to decide for themselves... If you actually read all of history you will find that slavery was not the real reason for the Civil War, though it was a contributing factor it isn't actually the reason... The southern States wanted less federal government and to be able to decide what was right for their constituents based on local votes and not federal jurisdiction... That being said it is through ignorance, politics and misjudgment that the harmless piece of cloth that represented a huge turning point in our great nations growth and development has been demonized... The reality of it is, we defend freedom of speech and expression.. If you take your oath seriously, then you shouldn't care what others are saying and doing as long as it is not causing harm to others... No where in the constitution does it say that we have freedom of speech, religion, expression etc.. Just so long as it doesn't offend others... Also to say they can't display the Confederate flag because others find it offensive, does that also mean that eventually you will also ban the GA state flag because it is part of their flag because someone is offended... Then what if someone is offended by the color green, do you now ban anything with that color, where does it stop? When do we either allow the freedoms that so many have died trying to protect, or do spit on their graves as we become the tyrants...

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made Feb 6 at 2015 8:57 PM

PV2 Abbott Shaull — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 20:57:08 -0500

As I have seen the flag used a symbol that many people raise issue with this particular flag of the Confederacy. To the point historically when they use this flag in such a way they are using not the Flag of the Confederate States of America, but they are using a symbol use by the Confederate Army only to help ensure to communicate in the heat and fog of battle that Southern Regiments could be identified due to the fact the Confederate Flag was 3 bars with blue patch with stars in a circle, one star for each star. Much like the flag of the Revolutionary war, but in the early battles this caused confusion with southern troops firing upon their own. So the more well known Battle Flag came about. My attitude about it is w

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Feb 21 at 2015 12:26 AM

SPC Stewart Smith — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 00:26:52 -0500

I think people are offended for the wrong reasons.
You should be offended by our countries education system. Offended by people actively telling others to not vaccinate their children.
This is a non issue. People making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If you're offended by this, then I say, 'so what. Who gives a fuck. Grow thicker skin.'

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2015 1:33 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 01:33:38 -0500

CPT Aaron Kletzing While some people may associate it for ethnic pride, heritage pride, or whatever reason, they have the right to display it. Personally, I don't have any problem with it unless it is used associated with extremist groups such as the KKK.

However, displaying this flag does associate one's self with certain mentality or culture. And yes, I am generalizing and stereotyping here.

1) Rebel: I get it. I am a rebel myself. But I don't intentionally drive a gas guzzling truck in order to represent how manly I am. Nor do I complain about how much the gas is while ignoring the fact of myself being part of the problem. BTW, yes, it is "REAL" manly for you to hang some testicles from an animal that you have no chance to kill with your own bare hand.

2) Eating habit: I get it. Butter, grease, lard, and bacon fat make everything taste better. Do people have to make such poor lifestyle choice and whine about how much healthcare has become? Again, these people are the problem and they blame everybody else but themselves.

3) Environmental concern: I don't know if global warming is real or not. But I know that pollution is a real problem and these companies are dumping toxic chemicals and materials into the environment that in turn poison us and everything else. If any of your friend and family member has any kind of medical chronic disease (that may be caused by pollution) and you think it is perfectly ok to pollute the environment or too lazy to do your part to make the environment better, you need to re-evaluate how intelligent you really are.

4) Hunting: While you think you have every right to kill any innocent animal with your advanced scope and rifle and display their chopped off head in your living room, you get all angry about the Muslim radicals killing people. I personally don't think you know what empathy is and you don't have any either.

The list goes on and I run out of time.

No, I don't have any problem with people displaying the flag. I just think your intelligence is questionable and some may even fail as a human being.

As usual, there are exceptions...

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2015 2:07 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:07:28 -0500

I personally have no feelings about it either way. I know that the flag represents heritage and other meanings outside of race. All that matters to me is how I'm treated and that I'm returned the same respect that I give when I'm engaged in a conversation with someone who feels they need to display the rebel flag.

This is not an uncommon occurrence because I live in Kentucky and I've talked with all kinds of people on and off base that either wear or display their heritage. From these conversations I've learned that the flag holds different meanings for different people.

I know I may get some backlash from those that are focused on the past, but nothing can change what has already happened. All we can do as citizens is focus on the future and respect one another.

Response by SGT Jamie Gilchrist made Feb 21 at 2015 7:23 AM

SGT Jamie Gilchrist — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:23:25 -0500

1) The Confederate Flag is a touchy subject, displaying it openly while on military undulations is wrong. It shows service members that you are not up for change and you only agree with one culture and not all cultures basically closed minded. What you do off base is your personal buisness, but you will still be under scrutiny because of your obligation to the military.
2) it means you still represent slavery, abolishment, and one nation, the confederate nation. Others see and think the samething.3) I have not personally experienced this stupidity, but I can say that majority of the nuckle heads that do wear or display the flag don't know half history behind it. Some do it for show and just to be seen or noticed, low self esteem medication.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 18 at 2015 1:23 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:23:45 -0400

Excellent topic... and I am way late.

I know this is not new, but this has been on my list since I left NJ in 1980... As a NJ resident, this flag/symbol etc always meant racism, white supremacy, and hate to me; plain and simple. I am educated, and I understand this particular symbol has different meanings to different people, based on where you are from, and even what color you are.

I have listened to both sides, and ultimately it is about what others think it means, not what you think it means. I see it, today, as insensitive and out of bounds. If I could, I would outlaw it.

Aside from personal feelings (bias/prejudice), I first saw this an issue, when I was at West Point, at an Army Football Game. Army was playing the Citadel, and all their fans were waving the confederate flag in the visiting teams seats... It was not well received and very emotional to many... At West Point, in NY, and in the Army, it was not considered to be a good thing... The Citadel crowd just saw it as normal...

Another time, as a TAC Officer, I had to explain to a Cadet (Plebe/Freshman) from Georgia, who had a full size confederate flag in his room, why he should not/could not have this displayed...

Now that I deal with HS students, this is actually part of the curriculum (Cultural Diversity, and being a Leader in a culturally diverse world). We actually discuss this and many other symbols. Still, since our student population is over 75% military family members, who move around a lot, the opinions are varied. This is actually one of my favorite classes.

I generally ask the Cadets how they would feel if their leader had this as a tattoo, or how would they feel if they reported to their leader and that leader had this flag hanging behind their desk (I have actually seen that).

In the end, they are all symbols, and as a leader you need to focus on what it means to everyone, not just the one displaying it.

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made May 12 at 2015 8:08 AM

Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay — Tue, 12 May 2015 08:08:10 -0400

I was doing a websearch for the Philippine KKK flag and found that the Sons of Confederate Veterans have been "fighting" against the KKK for use of the American Flag. The KKK have been flying the American Flag for decades.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made May 12 at 2015 4:53 PM

SGT Anthony Bussing — Tue, 12 May 2015 16:53:39 -0400

personally...whenever I see it being flown at events like a concert or a diesel truck show ( I dont go to those, but I live by the fair grounds that hosts one every year) I just point and laugh and think to myself "idiots!"

I also do not think it should be flown for the very simple reason...they are flags of a nation whose ass we kicked in war...yes, Virgina, the north DID win the Civil War...so, no, it should not be flown...or be given any special favor...its the flag of a losing side...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2015 10:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:01:58 -0400

I feel the same way about the "Confederate" flag (yes, yes, I know, I know, it's actually the battle flag of Virginia or Tennessee or whatnot... but it has *become* "The Confederate Flag* in common discourse and if I said the words "Confederate Flag" to a roomful of people, northerners and southerners, they'd all know exactly what I'm talking about) regardless of whether it is on or off post.

That said, the Confederate flag, to me, symbolizes a region of the country that took pride in its heritage as a place where white people felt it was their right to enslave black people; to exploit them in a cruel plantation economy justified by notions of racial superiority. Regardless of whether every individual Southerner or Confederate soldier owned slaves or even thought about the slavery system as an institution, they benefited from that system and were willing to fight to the death, even to literally kill family members from the north, to preserve it.

My personal experience with the flag is mostly just watching the kinds of people who display it. The more "loud & proud" they are, the more I tend to see certain stereotypes reinforced. Disdain for people of certain colors, for example, or a sense that they were unfairly picked on by bullying government.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Jun 22 at 2015 12:41 AM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Mon, 22 Jun 2015 00:41:12 -0400

As an American I have the freedom to offend or be offended, just as you have that same right or just ignore you and keep going. If we decide to fight, it should just be that and not a hate crime. Some people just need an ass whupping, and I've had some. The flag is part of American history and does not belong to Nazis white supremacist anymore than the swastika belongs to Nazi Germany. The swastika design is also a native American design and has been on many blankets way before Hitler adopted it.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jul 2 at 2015 11:35 AM

SSG Brian Kresge — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 11:35:47 -0400

I'm not a big fan of the flag, but it's mostly a "meh."

What I worry about with the current animus against the flag is that troops with a strong Southern heritage and do fly it proudly, will now be targeted as possibly being "extremists." We serve with these guys; we know they're our brothers and sisters and are not folks who hate indiscriminately.

While I'm all for removing the flag from government and whatnot, the more we get into banning sales of the flag or burying the historical value, the less enthusiastic I get. The arguments against are problematically reductionist, and are prompting inane arguments about the casus belli. Yes, the South seceded over slavery, it's in the majority of their secession declarations, for crying out loud. But no, the Union did not wage war to free the slaves. People did fight because they believed in states rights; it doesn't make it true that they fought or didn't fight for slavery, what was important was what they *perceived* they were fighting for their states rights, especially if slavery was as remote to them as it was for most of the people who fought. So often the argument gets arbitrarily drawn into a false, bifurcated choice, to the point where it's just not useful. All of that is immaterial. I'm just glad slavery ended, the Union was preserved, and that we have a rich tradition, until now, of objectively presenting all the facts about how and why it all happened. I worry, I really worry, that we're embarking on a path of sensitivity-driven revisionism, by all sides! Many that want the flag put out erroneous information, and many that want the flag banned want to pretend that things were just plain evil and there was no nuance beyond secession declarations.

Will the disappearing battle flag save people from being shot? I doubt it. Will it end racism? No. All these gestures, to me, are absolutely meaningless in the grand scheme of things. We need coherent, sensible moral constructs, religious or secular, and we need to abide by them. Hating and targeting a fellow American on the merits of race, color, or creed should just be a given. Everything else we're doing is just commentary.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2015 8:15 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 20:15:27 -0400

1. I have no problem with the Rebel Flag being displayed by anyone on base or off base. Those who have actually studied history are resistant to the propaganda surronding this flag. As it stands no other political flag is banned on base, including rainbow LGBT pride flags which can be also be seen as offensive, so I see no reason to ban any sort of flag on base. If we want to censor flags that offend us then we need a uniform ban on all such flags - not just one.

2. The flag to me symbolizes history and a great struggle in this nation. A lesson we should learn from and seek to never repeat. It represents the heritage of families in the South who fought for their rights. I know many people have chosen to remain ignorant of the topic and paint a picture of aggression, slavery, and hate when concerning this flag - I don't respect these people at all. It takes very little effort to research a topic and I am concerned with how many in this nation jumped on the bandwagon without first doing so. We cannot erase our (good or bad) history.

3. As a leader I would tell a person coming to me with a complaint to follow their natural chain of command. Did you first calmly and respectfully take your case to the one displaying the flag and try to resolve the problem at the personal level? If that doesn't work then what are the circumstances of the flag - is someone trying to provoke a response? If it's just display than I would tell the person complaining that they are in the military and that they need to research the topic and get past it. If we banned everything that offended us...we'd have nothing left.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 14 at 2015 9:09 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 21:09:31 -0400

@CPT Aaron Kletzing, A pickup truck displaying a huge Rebel Flag, a good ol'boy wearing a Rebel Flag shirt while the bumper of the featured pickup truck has an OBAMA sticker? I think that ol'boy may be confused!

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 14 at 2015 9:50 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 21:50:06 -0400

@CPT Aaron Kletzing, 1LT Sandy Annala

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 14 at 2015 9:55 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 21:55:57 -0400

@CPT Aaron Kletzing, @1LT Sandy Annala, Please see, LCpl James Robertson's response to MAJ Jason Miller re: the Confederate Flag. His is an extremely moving reminder of preducices most Americans are not aware of! Discussions such as this are very disturbing.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2015 10:19 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 22:19:58 -0400

A couple of things.
1. Anytime someone quotes a Regulation they need to be able to find it. There have been a couple of times that someone tried to use a reg for why I had no authority to do something. When I looked them up, they either did not say what they thought or it was changed. always verify.
2. The Confederate flag has different meanings dependent of how informed a person is on its history. If they want to be indignant on something they do not understand they will be. Most will not look in to its history. A Buddhist symbol is just like a swastika to someone that does not know the difference. The swastika has been in use for thousands of years before Hitler and in many cultures it still means eternal life.
3. I would say if you have an issue with something like a flag or bumper sticker on my car or bag you can take to me about it. Talk not yell. If you are in the mental state that you have to replace a honest logical conversation with yelling then you have stopped caring about the meaning and just want to yell till you win. At that point I will stop listening.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 15 at 2015 12:51 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:51:34 -0400

I am not going to judge people if they display the Confederate flag just because the media wants to go bonkers over ratings. If this flag brings anyone such great discomfort and there is a legitimate reason why said offended person is on a the installation, file a complaint in an orderly fashion. Not that I think anyone would do this but following someone until the get to their destination to talk to them about their flag is harassment.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2015 3:48 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 03:48:45 -0400

Aaron, let's dispense with the current subject matter which tends to push people to one end of the spectrum or the other. The symbol is not the issue, the issue is in a country that prides itself on free speech and other broad freedoms. Are we at a point where we can't offend one another? I find the popular "COEXIST" bumper sticker offensive. Should we ban that too? Where does it end? Now we have major universities banning "micro aggression." For the record, I grew up in the north where we learned that the civil war was all about slavery. While in the military my kids attended schools in the south where they learned it was all about state rights and northern aggression. The battle flag of the Confederates simply represents the losing force of the civil war. While I understand how some feel it relates to slavery, I personally feel it's a stretch. Most importantly, while it is an unfortunate part of our nation's history, it is in fact our history. Imagine how we would view Germany completely burying its history and role in the holocaust. Bottom line is this, I may not like it or agree with it, but I don't defend the constitution so someone can dictate what is appropriate to say or display. That's not how it's supposed to work. I just think this is a slippery slope creating a precedence for really ridiculous restrictions in the future.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jul 19 at 2015 9:36 AM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:36:46 -0400

During my first tour in Korea, my roommate had a Confederate flag on his wall. Our African-American 1SG did not mind my roommate having that flag while performing a barracks inspection however he was upset that my roommate had a People's Republic of China flag.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jul 23 at 2015 2:04 PM

1SG Harold Piet — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:04:06 -0400

As you can see the opinions are varied and there are many, There is no Confederate country as the war was lost and America was united, all flags and other mementos are reminders to us from the South of our heritage, Reminders to the north of our rebellion and to some the pain of the mistreatment of people through slavery. In the end it is just a piece of cloth and does not define the south. The heart of the individual will carry the love or hate for the fellow American and fighting over a flag encourages hate, not love.

Response by SPC Lee Beach made Dec 14 at 2015 10:17 AM

SPC Lee Beach — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 10:17:18 -0500

If devergent religions are allowed to deviate from uniform and appearance standards. Southerners should be allowed to display pride in their heritage

Response by SGT Kevin Meehan made Dec 24 at 2015 11:27 AM

SGT Kevin Meehan — Thu, 24 Dec 2015 11:27:06 -0500

I've never had a problem with the Confederate flag. I've always seen it as the symbol it is. A battle flag. I've respect for what that symbol is and means to others; symbol of strength and fortitude of Americans. It has also been recognized by congress as a flag of America, for lack of a better term. Flying this flag, anywhere, is not/ and should not be a crime. It is the same as (no disrespect intended) flying, wearing the colors, logos... of your favorite NFL team. Anybody who views the Confederate flag with anything but respect and maybe even some pride is certainly viewing it in a light that should be turned off.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made May 22 at 2016 8:26 AM

SFC Marcus Belt — Sun, 22 May 2016 08:26:53 -0400

1. Seems divisive. If we're going to get our drawers knotted over some USMA cadets raising fists, then that flag seems like it should be an even bigger issue.

2. The men who went to war under that flag went to war for a set of ideals. Some of those ideals are good, some not. In the 21st Century, a person flying that flag has to understand and accept the fact that that "movement" attempted to destroy the country, enslaved MILLIONS and the racial tensions and disparities that existed under that system have yet to be fully rectified. And maybe never will.

3. I am thick-skinned. You can't offend me by flying a flag. Any flag. And hell, I like guns n' freedom as much or more than most folks flying that flag. And by flying that flag, you have to not just accept the historical negatives, but the contemporary associations based on the fringe groups who have co-opted the symbol. So I figure that if you're aware of all that and still choose to ride out under that flag, you and I aren't going to have much to talk about.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made May 26 at 2016 3:41 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 26 May 2016 15:41:26 -0400

I don't have a problem with it. My grandmother was a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy and my father was a member of the Sons of the Confederacy.

They were mostly historical societies and did a lot of genealogical and historical studies. The Confederacy is our family background on my father's side; my mother's family fought for the Union.

There is no call to continue to disparage our family or our traditions over things that happened generations ago.

Those that are hypersensitive over the Stars and Bars today need to look into their own histories a bit more closely - they will find plenty to be ashamed of in their own houses without going about tearing down others.

For what it is worth, I also have German and Jewish relatives in my family tree, but I don't go about fighting WWII all over again.

The thing about history is that it is past; we cannot change it by trying to erase its memory or hold today's generations responsible for things their ancestors did. The best thing we can do is to study history and try to learn from it not to repeat the failures of the past.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2016 3:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 May 2016 15:09:24 -0400

Displaying the flag in or out of uniform, on or off post is a persons personal preference. I personally wouldn't be offended by it, it is their right as an American citizen to fly the flag.

The Confederate flag means a nation of traitors to me. As a kid I never knew what the Rebel flag meant other than it was a cool flag on the side of the General Lee on Dukes of Hazard. After joining the Army I took a Civil War class and found out exactly what the flag meant. After learning I saw the Rebel flag as a traitor flag, they rebelled against the United States and lost the war. Ask yourself this question, had they won would we be able to fly the Stars and Bars?

Most say it's part of their heritage, when they say that I ask what part of the heritage? Is it the right to fight for what they believe is right against the Federal government? If that's not their answer than I can only assume that their heritage is king cotton, slavery and Jim Crow and that I do not respect. Some just don't understand the pain caused by the sight of the flag being displayed. I'm only 43 years old and I've had relatives lynched, beaten and tied to train tracks. If that is the proud heritage they speak of then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Response by SP5 Andy Downs made Jun 16 at 2016 1:44 PM

SP5 Andy Downs — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:44:27 -0400

bottom line is we all took a oath when we entered the military.. this offends me bs has to stop.. I ve run into this same issue myself and had to stand up and say enough is enough..

Response by SP5 Andy Downs made Jun 16 at 2016 1:46 PM

SP5 Andy Downs — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:46:05 -0400

and also no they cannot say no to you doing this it is against yr constitional rights. and there is no regulation on this. but however, if you wish to argue this with command always remember be respectful but firm.

Response by SP5 Andy Downs made Jun 16 at 2016 2:26 PM

SP5 Andy Downs — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 14:26:51 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 1:46 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:46:04 -0400

1) I'm a big supporter of 1st Amendment rights and I personally find it insulting that the very people who have sworn an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States" are the first to be forced to surrender those freedoms. That said, if someone wants to fly the Confederate flag on their vehicle or person, on or off post, by all means let them.
2) I personally think the Confederate flag is a symbol of traitors to the United States. At the end of the day, it was flown by an entity whose purpose was to dissolve our country. To me, anybody who flies that flag holds that same mentality - they believe that an enemy of the Constitution should have prevailed and been allowed to split the country in two. And that's without even taking into account all of the racist overtones and attitudes that flag has come to represent.
Question 3 doesn't really apply... I haven't experienced this yet - and I hope not to.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2016 11:49 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Aug 2016 11:49:04 -0400

Wow, what a discussion.

I see this much the same as I see the speaking of Merry Christmas.

It should not be disallowed. But, at the same time, anyone using it should consider the effect of it on the persons around him/her. If I know that it offends you I will not display the flag nor say Merry Christmas in you presence. However, neither will I accept a blanket judgement for it.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Feb 18 at 2017 10:20 PM

PO3 Scot Fahey — Sat, 18 Feb 2017 22:20:21 -0500

to clarify Confederate Naval Jack is displayed in the photo. The Confederate states went through three official flags during the four-year Civil War, but none of them was the battle flag that's at the center of the photo

Response by SrA A.A. Hall made Apr 4 at 2017 10:41 AM

SrA A.A. Hall — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 10:41:28 -0400

Here's my take on this matter. It seems that nowadays everyone's way too sensitive about everything. I was born a Texan, & proud of it, but I was raised in lots of different states, (military brat) lol. I love my Texas flag as well as Confederate flag. But above all the Stars & Stripes are Number One! Having been raised with a deep southern background, I was taught to respect my elders, believe in God, & be respectful to others. I'v had some great friends from all kinds of backgrounds, & we always got along. We never played this racist / ethnic card. Everyone should do one of those 23 & me DNA test. You'd be so surprised at who you really are. And Heads Up people " NOT EVERYONE WITH LIGHT SKIN OWNED SLAVES!! Get Over It!! I'm Irish, Scottish, & Native American. My family never owned a slave, if anything my relatives probably were slaves themselves. But Who Cares!? It was along time ago. You are an American above all else. Be proud! Quit being a bunch of babies! It's great to know your families history, But it's HISTORY. I'l treat you with respect if you treat me that way as well. After All "We Are Americans"

Response by SSG William Jones made Apr 17 at 2017 9:52 PM

SSG William Jones — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 21:52:34 -0400

@CPT Aaron Kletzing

Check this out...
https://youtu.be/zDH5o1gUamU

The Truth Concerning the Confederate Battle Flag

For 224 years America was a country of slavery under the stars and stripes of the American flag. Why then should a person feel hate toward a flag that flew b...

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Apr 20 at 2017 4:51 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:51:18 -0400

In a recent email I received.......It seems appropriate given the nature of this site....:
" It was the 12th of April 1861. General Gordon led the Confederates. He had been shot five times at Antietam, and was nursing a bullet wound from 18 days ago. General Chamberlain commanded the Federals. He was also aching from a chest wound received two weeks ago, his sixth serious battle injury. Two remarkable generals, and some of the most rugged soldiers in history, closed on each other. Their meeting was arranged three days ago, at Appomattox: Gordon to surrender arms and flags, Chamberlain to receive them. In Chamberlain’s words:

“Before us…stood the embodiment of manhood: men whom neither toils and sufferings, nor the fact of death, nor disaster, nor hopelessness could bend from their resolve; standing before us now…with eyes looking level into ours…. was not such manhood to be welcomed back into a Union so tested?”

What happened next was not part of the plan. Chamberlain had the bugle blown and his entire line came to attention: “Gordon at the head of the column, riding with heavy spirit… catches the sound of shifting arms, looks up, and, taking the meaning, wheels superbly, making with himself and his horse one uplifted figure…as he drops the point of his sword to the boot toe; then facing to his own command, gives word for his successive brigades to pass us with the same position of the manual, honor answering honor.” The last salute, given and returned, was a fitting honor to former foes."

As far as I'm concerned.....
Heritage, Never Hatred.

Response by MSG James Hughs made Apr 20 at 2017 6:17 PM

MSG James Hughs — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 18:17:02 -0400

MY FEELING.... (1) Do not care in either case
(2) history....southern pride ; to others.....a variety of responses....some consider it a racist symbol reflecting white supremacist feelings
(3) Had a black panther SFC once tell me "Kojak, I do not like you" I asked him why?.....He said, "Mainly because you are white' I responded with a smile "There is not much I can do about that"..... he looked in my eyes and said..... " But I respect you"....I looked back and said "That is all any man can reasonably expect"
The flag was not much of a problem in my time but racism has always been a problem.....
NOW lets get to the heart of the problem.... For many people....perception is reality.....If it looks like a duck....walks like a duck....dresses like a duck......for many it is a duck even though it is a goose..... You want to wear the flag.....display the flag..... appear to many as a "racist" even though you are not a racist..... that is your option..... but remember there is a price for being John Wayne..... it will impact your life and how people will see and respond to you..... the likelihood it will adversely impact you is higher than the chance it will help you.....if people perceive you as a racist....they will see racism in you even when it does not exist....
CONTROL.....you can control you.....but you can not control how others feel about you.....and not seeing how your actions hurt or irritate others....has a price.....just do not complain when you pay a price for being John Wayne

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 2 at 2017 8:59 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 02 May 2017 20:59:53 -0400

So long as you're honest about the message you're sending...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 1:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 May 2017 13:25:09 -0400

A romanian friend and I were discussing this a few weeks ago and he brought up valid point that changed my view. While I grew up seeing this flag in my country town in Maryland I never had positive or negative feelings towards it. I had looked towards it as something historic and of free speech to those who liked it. But my friend told me reminded me the confederacy lost the war and it's "right" to slavery. He reminded me that that you don't see Germany flying the nazi flag anymore either and what it stood for. Boom. I now look at that flag in the same way. I no long believe it should be a sing of pride as only one group of people really fly it

Response by SSG Mac Ashworth made May 4 at 2017 1:34 PM

SSG Mac Ashworth — Thu, 04 May 2017 13:34:35 -0400

Losers they lost that war

Response by MAJ John Adams made May 4 at 2017 1:43 PM

MAJ John Adams — Thu, 04 May 2017 13:43:20 -0400

1. Display of the Confederate battle flag on post is probably not a good idea if it's large and obvious, such as an actual flag or a central element of a T-shirt imprint or such. If it's inconspicuous, I have no issue with it. Off post, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if someone wants to have a Confederate battle flag on a pole outside their house, mounted on his/her truck, or emblazoned on his or her clothing. That said, the only uniform that should be worn when prominently displaying that flag is a Confederate uniform, and only when participating in a function, like a historical parade or Civil War reenactment, at which wear of a Confederate uniform is appropriate. If someone wants to make a stink about it off-post, then that's the problem of the person making the stink and the person with the flag. They'll work it out.

2. The Confederate battle flag symbolizes the armies of the Confederacy. They fought bravely, well, and honorably, the same as their estranged brothers who fought for the US. In that sense, it's no different than the regimental standards of German units (I'll agree that the SS units are a special case) that were raised during WW2 -- military organizations who did their duty to their country to the best of their ability. It's a military flag that has been hijacked and disgraced by racist SOBs who think that it's a pro-slavery banner, and now far too many people believe that the only thing the Confederate battle flag has ever symbolized is anti-black racism or white supremacy.

3. Nope. Never saw it.

Response by SGT Merce Figueroa made May 4 at 2017 2:07 PM

SGT Merce Figueroa — Thu, 04 May 2017 14:07:04 -0400

I say fly or decorate away. As long as they don't disrespect the US flag or myself I could give two shits about it.

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made May 4 at 2017 2:13 PM

SPC Rob Lewis — Thu, 04 May 2017 14:13:09 -0400

It would depend on why you are displaying it? Heritage or hatred? Yes, the south was defeated but I believe that congress declared confederate soldiers to be US military veterans. I see people with memorials to fallen friends, family, and comrades on their vehicles and tat’s on their bodies. Is there a difference just because it is the starts and bars? Would you tell someone to get rid of their “in memory of” display? Just saying….

Response by SFC Daniel Zelch made May 4 at 2017 2:23 PM

SFC Daniel Zelch — Thu, 04 May 2017 14:23:14 -0400

I am from Missouri, my family arrived in the USA the poor way. They arrived in New Orleans and worked their way up the Mississippi River to a German section of the St. Louis area. This was 1890's. I say all this to establish that I don't really have a steadfast connection for or against the stars and bars. I have no more a problem with one displaying the battle flag of the CSA, then one flying a flag of any other country (past or present). While I was serving as the 1sg at Ft. Hood in the late 90's, the CSM told us "By Monday I want all those flags with X on them taken down". So all CSA battle flags and all Malcom X support flags were removed. Now this caused something of a stink, I figured an X is an X, it was all or none.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 2:25 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 May 2017 14:25:08 -0400

I will ever only hoist one flag on a pole above my head. She is beautiful, she is 13 stripes red and white with a field of blue and white stars. No other is worthy of my effort.

This flag has only been used by the Klan, by those in opposition of segregation, those against equal rights and finally by those who honor the South's willingness to stand up and rebel against what they believed to be an oppressive government. This flag was never carried into battle against the north. The Northern Virginia battle flag was "square." Today however, I think the majority of people who wave it are simply proud of their Southern heritage. Still there are a great many people who wave this flag with respect to racism. So, I don't get why peaceful caring people would want to associate themselves with the same flag carried by the Klan and those who oppose equality.

So, my personal opinion is that,
When this flag was square and used as a battle flag, it lost.
When it opposed the 14th & 15th amendment in 1868, it lost.
When opposition carried this flag in opposition of segregation in 1954 & 1964, it lost.
The Klan carried this flag for many year and they are but a memory today, They lost.
So, in my view anyone who carries this flag is a loser. History proves it.
I just giggle to myself when I see losers waving it.
Still, I get how some people see it as every thing good about the South. Why choose such a historical symbol of hatred to represent you? I don't get it.

The swastika was original a sign of peace and good fortune in many cultures around the world. Yet today, we can only see it for how it represented German Imperialism in the late 1930 and early 1940s. So, which emblem is worse? And why does any symbol have to have one meaning to everyone.
https://aratta.wordpress.com/the-history-of-the-swastika/

The history of the Swastika

The earliest swastika known has been found in Mezine, Ukraine. It is carved on late paleolithic figurine of mammoth ivory, being dated as early as about 10,000 BC. It has been suggested this swasti…

Response by SGT Eric Hawkins made May 4 at 2017 2:26 PM

SGT Eric Hawkins — Thu, 04 May 2017 14:26:34 -0400

I have deep-rooted love for the CSA and what it represented. Many, many people will argue to no end about the causes of the US Civil War without knowing anything about events that led up to the armed conflict. To me, the war was about a states' right to nullify federal laws that a state's leaders felt were bad for a largely rural South. The abolition of slavery became a tactical position that was taken by the leaders of the Union to create chaos in the "states in a state of rebellion." Slavery was wrong. But it occurred over 150 years ago.
All that being said, the Battle Standard of the Army of Northern Virginia (most people couldn't pick a real CSA flag out of a line-up) remains a divisive symbol. ANY SYMBOL that stands in contrary to the good order, dicipline, and cohesion of a fighting unit should be strictly prohibited by leadership. Same should apply across the board. CSA memorabilia, Black Power regalia, White Power regalia, Mexican flags, African Flags, Crusaders Flags, etc. (Don't read into what I included or excluded in that last statement. Really! Don't be a Sally Sue.) Remember...we are in the business of winning wars not popularity contests.

Response by Sgt Justin Vickers made May 4 at 2017 2:28 PM

Sgt Justin Vickers — Thu, 04 May 2017 14:28:36 -0400

really....this is what we are talking about...

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 3:03 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 May 2017 15:03:45 -0400

To me it symbolizes rebellion. They were brothers fighting brothers. The darkest part of our history. It should not be flown without the US flag at the bare minimum.

Response by Sgt John Koliha made May 4 at 2017 5:31 PM

Sgt John Koliha — Thu, 04 May 2017 17:31:46 -0400

Why the heck should the U.S. Military tolerate the display of symbols of treason. That is what the Confederacy was, a treasonous body that made war on the United States. If this is OK, then bring on the Battle Flag of the Third Reich, the Vietcong/North Vietnamese or ISIS Battle Flags; all of which are far less repugnant - since they were mere enemies, not TRAITORS!! Forever NO to the display of Confederate garbage. They were traitors, and anyone who displays it are seriously close the being the same.

Heritage, slavery, prejudice, state's rights, symbol of the South - all don't matter, It is about treason to the United States and them making war on this country. If you see it as representing your "heritage" then your "Heritage" is all about TREASON; not anything that is at all heroic.

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made May 4 at 2017 5:58 PM

SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity — Thu, 04 May 2017 17:58:03 -0400

I was born in NC and to me tbe flag represents division and racism. Do I think this was its intended use no...however over time it has morphed into that. I am of mixed ancestry Germanic on one side black and Native American on the other. I would like for the people of NC and other places still showcasing the confederacy to host educational talks on tbe subject for both sides in other words begin the healing process for the divided people.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made May 4 at 2017 7:00 PM

SSgt Michael Cox — Thu, 04 May 2017 19:00:45 -0400

(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?

If it is someone who is still serving active, guard, or reserve then they aren't allowed to have a political view. This means bumper stickers, flags, other stickers, social media everything is off limits. This is on and off base. If it is a veteran then it is up to them until something comes out saying that this kind of thing is not allowed for veterans.

(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?

I look at the flag as a piece of history. While I don't agree with slavery I do understand that it was a rampit problem all over the world at the time and not just in the South. I do hate to see all the monuments getting destroyed, vandalized, and taken down across the South even as we speak. To me even if you don't agree with the message or what they stand for it is still this countries history and you can only learn if you teach history. If you erase the past we are likely to repeat it again in the future.

(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?

While I have never seen anyone punished for a flag or symbol I did receive a verbal reprimand because I identified myself as a redneck and a hick and another NCO was offended that I identified myself that way even though I was country boy growing up.

Response by PFC Josiah Schmid made May 4 at 2017 10:36 PM

PFC Josiah Schmid — Thu, 04 May 2017 22:36:31 -0400

I personally have no feeling on this issue and think people spend too much time debating it. All I care about is the Confederacy was defeated to keep the nation unified. and slavery was abolished.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made May 5 at 2017 12:24 AM

SPC Jeffrey Reese — Fri, 05 May 2017 00:24:31 -0400

My statement to you on this is if you worry about what others think all of the time you will never live your life and never have your freedom of speech because you will always worry what others think. Try living your life and let others live theirs with out being so thin skinned that if they glance in your direction you get offended. What others have on their vehicle is none of my business as long as it isn't obscene or crude or blatantly racial on post what difference does it make it is their choice to put it there. They have just as much right to free speech as you do that is why they put on the uniform. if you take things like that to heart then you need to do away with every thing that could be remotely be offensive and that would be just about every thing. No bumper stickers no logo t shirts no logo shoe's nothing but 1 style hair cut no ring tones because some one might over hear it and be offended. Live your life and let others live theirs stop the decline grow up be an adult let others live free to the real limits of good taste quit being so easily offended.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2017 12:35 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 May 2017 00:35:49 -0400

To display the rebel flag on a military instillation should not be a question. You should be allowed to display it. Hell Fort Bragg is named after confederate general Braxton Bragg who was a North Carolina native. Its not a big deal. Let soldiers be happy.

Response by MSG James Hughs made May 5 at 2017 2:03 AM

MSG James Hughs — Fri, 05 May 2017 02:03:21 -0400

NEWS FLASH.....Almost anything you do could offend or upset someone.... We are becoming a nation of wimps.... for me the racist I can see is better than the racist hiding behind a plastic smile.
FIRST For some people this flag is a symbol of racism and the ugliness of slavery....for others it has nothing to do with racism but is a symbol of heritage and southern pride.....
SECOND Does forcing someone to take down this flag make them NOT a racist anymore.....
THIRD the US Constitution....the Constitution we swore to uphold, defend and protect ....guarantees EVERYONE the right to fly or burn whatever flag they want..... that includes the rebel flag....the Marcus Garvy colors....the Black Power banner ..... the constitution gives you the right to be an IDIOT if you want to be an idiot.
The logical question is there a correlation between yelling fire in a crowded theater.....inciting a panic.....getting people hurt.....AND flying this or any other flag that could or might cause a violent outburst / riot? ..... MY OPINION....the comparison is weak .... the risk is small..... and the violation of the first amendment is a greater danger
SOLUTION....Grow a set and stop letting STUPIDITY or your imagination create problems
TRUE STORY At an 82nd Div CSM meeting.....we had a racial mixture but the division CSM was a known racist good old southern boy..... as he was about to take a drink of his coffee..... one of the black CSM's said, "Careful sergeant major....black coffee will turn your skin black!"....the sergeant major almost broke the cup setting it back down.... everybody laughed..... racism is REAL....DEAL WITH IT..... nothing is more important than you make it

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2017 11:07 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 May 2017 11:07:37 -0400

I live in Mississippi and there is a constant and ongoing debate about the confederate flag being on our state flag. My thoughts on it are that if it offends people, remove it. With that said, I don't think society should cater to every single person who is offended by something but the confederate flag flew over a country that enslaved people and treated them like animals. Like it or not, that's grounds for being offended. Does anyone get mad at Jews who are offended by swastikas? Maybe at one time the confederate flag wasn't offensive. But groups like the KKK and neo-Nazis have gone out of their way to ensure it's offensive by flying it while they commit atrocious hate crimes. Does flying the flag make you a member of the KKK? No, but can you see how someone might draw that conclusion? Here's a hypothetical: I'm a Christian and as such I have things with crosses on them. It's a symbol of my faith. If some terrorist group started using the cross as their symbol to the point where the general populace saw a cross and immediate thought of a hate group, I'd stop displaying the cross. It wouldn't make me less of a Christian. It's simply a symbol. If my practice of Christianity offends you, that's a different story. I won't stop being a Christian just like people don't have to stop being proud of their heritage. This philosophy can be applied to anything. I drink alcohol. That's my right. And it's also my right to talk about it around those who don't and those who are recovering alcoholics. But why on earth would I do that knowing that I was offending these people? I don't have to stop being who I am but I don't have to celebrate it in front of everyone either.

Response by PFC Kip Day made May 5 at 2017 12:04 PM

PFC Kip Day — Fri, 05 May 2017 12:04:09 -0400

I think it is disrespectful to display the confederate flag on a military base. It would be like displaying a Nazi flag on a military base or in front of a WWII veteran.

Response by SFC Charles Temm made May 5 at 2017 12:17 PM

SFC Charles Temm — Fri, 05 May 2017 12:17:29 -0400

so?

First Amendment, second part...you don't agree w/it but since this doesn't have any effect on a troop's military performance it's tough it may hurt somebody's feelings...

We ARE discussing something that is happening in the armed forces and not some college right?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2017 1:52 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 May 2017 13:52:47 -0400

There's a lot of racism against native Canadians indigenous Canadians also known as Indians in Canada and it seems like a lot of the guys who mouth off to these people have Confederate flags on their car or covering their window so the thing to do with the South nothing to do with the it is to do with racism at least up here in Canada.

Response by SGT Michael Sholtis made May 5 at 2017 3:25 PM

SGT Michael Sholtis — Fri, 05 May 2017 15:25:51 -0400

That flag is as disgusting to me as is the Nazi flag the Soviet flag or The ISIS flag. Regardless of your "Heritage" (I am from Virginia) it's the flag of an enemy of the United States of America. That symbol is responsible for a lot of Americans Dead. It represents Hatred and prejudice and there is no room for that in the Military of the United States. You swore an oath to defend the United States not the CSA. The excuse of heritage is also bullshit! We all came from somewhere as far a heritage goes. Doesn't mean because my ancestors came from Norway I should display their Flag, nothing against Norway, I'm sure it's a fine country, it's just not my country....

Response by PO2 Jerome O'Neil made May 5 at 2017 4:40 PM

PO2 Jerome O'Neil — Fri, 05 May 2017 16:40:32 -0400

It is the flag of treason, and we aught to hang our head in shame any time someone starts waving it around.

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made May 5 at 2017 5:57 PM

SSG Darrell Peters — Fri, 05 May 2017 17:57:09 -0400

How the Confederate Flag Saved My Father’s Life
(This is a true story Based on Interviews from several members of My Fathers Unit in Vietnam, SFC Jim Ross, SFC AL Lingo, SFC Ernest C. Peters and others.)
By Darrell W. Peters

I realize when people see the Confederate Battle Flag it evokes a lot of emotion. Some organizations have even used it as a symbol of hate. Yet having a Grandfather who was born months before the Civil War and having family who fought on both sides of that war and who fought and died for what they believed in. I suppose I look at the symbols of the War of the Rebellion through different eyes.

During the Vietnam War well over One Hundred years at the end of the Civil War the Confederate Battle Flag saved my father’s life. It seems that the Unit my father had been attached to had two shifts of cooks. One shift of cooks was from the North and they prepared food common to the Northern States, Boston Baked Beans, Corn Beef and Cabbage, Parker House Rolls, and other notable favorite foods.
The other shift of cooks was from the South They prepared food common to the Southern States, Grits and Gravy, Southern Fried Chicken and other notable food famous from the Region.

If the soldiers wanted to know which shift of cooks were preparing a meal all they had to do was look to see what flag was flying over the Field Kitchen. If it was the Stars and Stripes the Northern Boys were making the meal and if it was the Stars and Bars of the Confederacy it was the Southern Boys making the meal.

On this particular morning for Breakfast the southern boys were preparing the meal and the Stars and Bars of the Confederacy was flying over the field kitchen early that morning since Breakfast didn’t start until Six O’clock in the morning. As the day wore on an American Patrol brought captives from a Vietnamese Patrol into the camp, the North Vietnamese soldiers seemed confused. When they were questioned they wanted to know what new country had entered the war. They had never seen the strange flag that was flying early over the base before. They had orders to find an American Camp and Attack. When the North Vietnamese saw this strange flag they did not know to what country it had belonged to? They thought they found the American camp but this flag confused them to the point of not ordering an attack on the camp.

To this day I am forever grateful that the Southern boys were preparing breakfast that morning in Vietnam. The Flag of the Confederacy Flying over the Field Kitchen saved a lot of lives that day, to include the life of my father SFC Ernest Christopher Peters.

Response by MSgt Hamish Barrett made May 5 at 2017 9:27 PM

MSgt Hamish Barrett — Fri, 05 May 2017 21:27:41 -0400

I have lived in many of these united states. Many of them were once foreign territory. These states fly the flags of the US, Spain, France, & the Confederacy. I do not feel insulted or afraid of any of them. I say who cares. There are more pressing things to worry about. Its like the English worrying over Roundheads & Cavaliers or red roses & white roses. Get over it.

Response by TSgt Ray Rock made May 6 at 2017 12:13 PM

TSgt Ray Rock — Sat, 06 May 2017 12:13:20 -0400

I don’t care what people wear or display.

To resolve this they should make this flag and “X” hats, shirts etc. the same. They are either signs of pride in one’s heritage that are allowed or they are both signs of racism and hatred and neither are allowed.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 1:47 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 May 2017 13:47:01 -0400

Who cares? If it's about heritage then fly the flag of your State or where your family immigrated from, but if you want to fly it go ahead. I only fly one flag and it's the American Flag. Whether you align with them or not, it has been used by some bad folks that have done some bad things. Nobody but you will know your reason for flying it but I support your right. Even if you do align with them, that is your right also, provided you don't act on it against others. I don't think it should be flown in any official capacity and never with our US Flag, but otherwise it's much ado about nothing.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made May 7 at 2017 11:31 AM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Sun, 07 May 2017 11:31:10 -0400

As long as I don't get called the "N" word or get treated like I am not human. I am ok. I expect to be respected as he would any other person walking the earth. I have southern pride too being from SC. I actually understand part of the southern pride. But only as far as they way of simple livin and all. Hell...I even love country music even though it never had me and my race in mind. I like the Merican feel of it. But I know it is for a target audience or group. And some would even say it is not my music...but whatever...it is a mindset. And the flag is also a mindset in the same way. I know the roots to the flag and it's links to the hood. I would even go as far to saw that there are two different groups of flag people. Ones that are racist and ones that are just cool guys that love all and love their southern roots. It is damn hard to tell the difference...often until it is too late.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made May 7 at 2017 11:33 AM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Sun, 07 May 2017 11:33:35 -0400

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made May 7 at 2017 11:35 AM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Sun, 07 May 2017 11:35:13 -0400

Response by SGT John Hamby made Jun 4 at 2017 12:07 AM

SGT John Hamby — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 00:07:00 -0400

it should be up to the Post Commander as to whether or not something like that should be allowed or not.
and an article from 2015 in USAToday about it says a lot about how the DoD is handling that issue.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/25/military-ok-confederate-flag-now/29307077/

Military is OK with Confederate flag — for now

It's not clear how leaders will respond, if at all, to the anti-Confederate groundswell.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2017 2:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 02:31:16 -0400

Any soldier displaying the rebel flag ought to be processed for separation immediately for displaying allegiance to an enemy of the state.

Response by SSgt Dennis Brown made Jun 15 at 2017 12:10 AM

SSgt Dennis Brown — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:10:30 -0400

Like it or not, the Confederate flag (stars and bars) is just like old glory, a part of American history... And Most of those complaining about the flag really know nothing of the flag... In it's beginning, it had NOTHING to do with the hate, bigotry, and racism as it it's depicted by the unknowing bunch... It wasn't until AFTER THE NORTHERN DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS created the KKK (who adopted the Confederate flag as their symbol) to keep Uncle Tom and the rest of the former slaves in line thru threats and violence towards them...I know if many educated black men and women who will outright tell you there is nothing wrong with the flag and that it it's a part of our American history... Or as we say in the South, HERITAGE, NOT HATE

Response by SFC Gary Fox made Jun 22 at 2017 1:08 PM

SFC Gary Fox — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:08:58 -0400

The Stars and Bars on the bottom left was the national flag for the Confederate States of America. The flag on the right is most mistakenly known as the "Stars and Bars" and also mistaken as the national flag of the confederacy. There was much confusion on the battlefield when the Stars and Bars was used as many confederate soldiers confused it with the US flag as it both looked similar from a distance. Generals in Lee's Army of Northern Virginia came up with the battle flag on the right to create an esprit de corp on the battlefield and to remove the confusion resulting in the confederacy's national flag looking similar to the Stars and Stripes.

I live in Georgia and grew up in the South during the majority of my youth. Not one of my friends who displays the confederate battle flag does in support of slavery or for any racist reason. They utilize it to demonstrate the love they have in their southern heritage, especially when it comes to states' rights issues while the federal government imposes its will where it infringes on those rights.

The flag does not offend me one way or another. I believe slavery is wrong and I'm grateful our nation no longer participates in it. During my 25-year career, it never bothered me to see the flag displayed in one form or another on vehicles on or off post, nor did it bother me to see it displayed in one form or another in soldiers' rooms in the barracks. I understand some people are offended by it because they look at it being displayed as a support of slavery, but slavery no longer exists in this country, nor will it ever exist again. It's time to just move on.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Aug 7 at 2017 2:12 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 14:12:22 -0400

It has taken the Army years to understand that Regiments are families and not machines. For years the Army was trapped in the World War Two Individual Replacement System which looked at people as parts of a machine and not as human beings. The British Army never made that mistake they understood the emotional attachment that soldiers have for their Regiments. I served with the Fifth Cavalry Regiment which has a long and proud history and now the Army has finally realized will keep people going when any “rational” person would run like hell.
I live in Virginia and down here I am referred to as a "d*mnedyankee" and that is said as one word. Of course it really doesn't help my case that I wear a U.S. Cavalry Stetson hat with the crossed sabers marked with my regimental number and yellow cord and tell them that I am part of the Yankee Army of Occupation. I love southerners I have almost as much fun yanking their chains as Texans. Of course Texans have as wild a sense of humor as I do. I made a wise crack that “If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell.” Someone asked this Texan if he was not offended by my remark, he replied “Of course not damn a man who won’t stand up for his home state!”
I enlisted in the United States Army at age 17 and served with the Air Cavalry Division in Vietnam so I come with what we call the “standard issue Cavalry smart mouth”. My family comes from Spain and my first langue is Spanish although I was born in the United States. My grandfather, my father and my uncle Willie were also Cavalrymen so the “standard issue Cavalry smart mouth” is also genetic as well as professional. . My mother was crying that I was going to die in Vietnam if you have never seen a Spanish langue soap opera you have no idea of the production that is. So my grandfather said “My grandson who are you going to war with?” I replied “The First Squadron of the Fifth Cavalry Regiment grandfather. My grandfather said “Julia do not be concerned the Fifth Cavalry Regiment is a magnificent regiment I fought them in Porto Rico they fight like tigers led by jackasses but still they fight like tigers. Honestly what could I say but “Gee grandfather, I did not know you knew my officers.” My grandfather, my father and my uncle Willie and I all started laughing my got this Queen Victoria “we are not amused look on her face and muttered “canallas” which can be loosely translated as swine which made the four of us laugh even more. There is a legend that George IV (George Augustus Frederick; 12 August 1762 – 26 June 1830) is reputed to have asked his George Bryan "Beau" Brummell (7 June 1778 – 30 March 1840) of the Tenth Royal Hussars why the British Army had cavalry regiments his reply was “Why Sir? To lend a little tone to what otherwise would be nothing more than a vulgar brawl.”

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Aug 7 at 2017 5:18 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 17:18:48 -0400

Very well written response 1LT Sandy Annala. It allows me to see things from different angles.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 7 at 2017 5:39 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 17:39:23 -0400

Display whatever you want, so long as you're honest about what it stands for...

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Oct 18 at 2017 12:14 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 00:14:53 -0400

Might as well be flying an IsIs Flag or a Nazi Flag. I wonder what this traitor does during the National Anthem. I guess he strips

Response by SrA James Cannon made Jan 19 at 2018 10:32 AM

SrA James Cannon — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 10:32:33 -0500

I used to have a rebel flag license plate on the front of my vehicle that I drove onto a base in Oklahoma in the 1990s. I never had a single issue or cross word about it from anybody. My purpose for it was to show that I was from the South. What someone else's view of it was doesn't matter. It's my vehicle. Someone else can choose to attach any meaning they want to ANY symbol out there.

I should not have to change what I have simply because someone else chooses to attach a negative meaning to something. What's next, folks of the Muslim faith being offended by and demanding the removal of Christian crosses? That's right, we already have that. Don't you folks realize the Pandora's box you have opened?

It's basically like someone else on here said when they made the comparison of wearing a Red Sox jersey to a Yankees game. Just because I like the Red Sox does not mean that I hate the Yankees.

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 19 at 2018 10:46 AM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 10:46:26 -0500

Just like how folks on here have commented about hair styles, or regs or anything like that... its the military, suck it up buttercup. AD soldiers don't have freedom of speech. They lose it when they go it don't like it don't join. The flag means different things to different people but the fact of the matter is, its not the flag that represents America.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 19 at 2018 12:32 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 12:32:14 -0500

Then he is in the wrong Army. The people who fought for that flag killed AMERICAN soldiers

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 19 at 2018 7:48 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 19:48:22 -0500

As long as you don't mind me smoking near it...with an Oxy Acetylene torch. No issues what so ever.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2018 11:26 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 23:26:26 -0500

Do you support and defend enemies of the United States of America? it's really that simple.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2018 10:05 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 May 2018 10:05:55 -0400

The real problem is that we as a people are unable to sit and have a conversation about it all without someone becoming offended and it becoming an EO issue or personal distrust growing between members that cannot afford that kind of animosity where distrust can get someone hurt or killed. I have seen and been part of this conversation many times in the last 26 years and it never ends well because neither side is willing to really hear the other opinion and it almost always makes the problem worse for the near future. We cannot have a serious conversation because or history is emotional and poorly taught and more often than not it is taught with a one sided POV and no consideration is given to the rest of story. If we are going to start making emotional decisions that will personally effect a large portion of the military it may not go as well as many think since an extremely large portion of our military and its bases are located in the area we intend to tell they can no longer take pride in their history and culture. U.S. units that have Confederate Battle Streamers on their colors will have to be stripped off and I know a lot of Guardsmen of several colors that will take that pretty serious. This will continue to be an issue until we become mature enough to openly discuss it and there are way to many profiting from top to bottom to allow that to happen

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 2 at 2018 10:33 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 02 May 2018 10:33:38 -0400

OK- 1. Born in the South, but my family were immigrants who fought in Civil War from up North. 2. It is a flag, and part of our history- why delete it?. 3. Read your history for the 20 years leading up to the Civil War- the only reason slavery had any part in the War was the South was losing fair representation in Congress and tariff controls. 4. CSA veterans are recognized by Congress as American Veterans. 5. The Civil War ended over 150 years ago, there are no slaves still living in the Nation. 6. All people should be offended by slavery- yet almost every nation had slaves. 7. Most slaves were sold by African tribal leaders, to Arab slave traders. 8. There were slaves throughout the US prior to the War- to include up North, and almost 3000 black men owned slaves. 9. Whites were slaves in the New World some 80 years prior to blacks. 10. Why are American Blacks upset over slavery- Celts were slaves to Rome over a 1000 yrs before them and were slaves for almost 400 years- when Blacks in America were only slaves for around 150 years.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made May 5 at 2018 9:41 AM

SFC John Fourquet — Sat, 05 May 2018 09:41:44 -0400

1. The confederacy lasted from 1861 to 1865. After the civil war the confederate flag was adapted by the KKK which was created after the civil war and still exist now. So when someone say the flag is part of their heritage I ask, what heritage. The confederacy or the KKK?

I do not like it when I see the confederate flag displayed, but I respect the individual’s right to display it.

Response by SSG Stephen Abm made Aug 8 at 2018 6:04 AM

SSG Stephen Abm — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:04:14 -0400

This New England Yankee respects this American flag.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Aug 20 at 2018 7:54 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Mon, 20 Aug 2018 07:54:12 -0400

Like it or not, this symbol has come to represent racism, white supremacy, hatred, rebellion, etc. While many will argue that for them it means something different, that really doesn't matter. The military is comprised of people from all races, religions, geographic regions, cultures, etc. For the majority of those people, this symbol is hate speech at most, political speech at the very least. Much like a bumper sticker disparaging the POTUS, it has no place on a military installation and should not be allowed. Military bases are not free speech zones, nor are they public squares.

Response by MSgt Jim Albano made Sep 15 at 2018 9:56 AM

MSgt Jim Albano — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 09:56:33 -0400

Your absolutely right, in today’s touchy feely military the last thing we want to do is hurt somebodies feelings.
Cut the crap, this is the military, killing people is decisive. The next thing you know we’ll need safe spaces on the battlefield. Stop trying to make the military some kind of liberal social experiment.
The military is a big sledgehammer designed to do one thing “take away the enemies will to fight”

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Sep 15 at 2018 1:22 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 13:22:23 -0400

I don't care one way or the other. I dont like che Guevara tshirts. Or nazi crap. Or anything to do with communism. But I'm not in charge of anyone else's mind.
As a matter of fact, the whole you cant say this or that because someone might get offended is absolutely ridiculous.

Response by SFC Tracy Scott made Sep 15 at 2018 3:44 PM

SFC Tracy Scott — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 15:44:26 -0400

How do I feel about the Confederate flag?
I view the flag in several different ways
A. As a symbol that was used to direct the flow of battle during the war.
B. A symbol of defiance, people stood for what they believed in, how you view that is on you.
C. A symbol of the heritage of family, in that so many lost family members that never returned.
D. I see it as a symbol of defiance.

2. The Confederate flag to me is simply a symbol of my heritage and family
Anything can be viewed differently as both good and bad because of everyone having an opinion but does your opinion trump someones else opinion (no)
3. Have I ever experienced regs against it? No, this flag has been displayed in some way shape or form on every deployment, if anyone was ever offended them they never brought to my attention as most people don't give it a second thought.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Sep 16 at 2018 7:03 AM

1SG John Highfill — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 07:03:51 -0400

In this day and age it should not be displayed . Our armed forces are about respect , you can’t do that if your polarizing one group or anther

Response by MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge made Sep 16 at 2018 8:35 PM

MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 20:35:51 -0400

Ok let’s talk first impressions. Many people today see the military uniform and are then turned off or say they are offended. I say don’t worry so much with your first impressions and always consider your consistent impressions.
Next many southern states have the confederate flag on them so should not display those flags? The entrance to many bases are lined with flags from each state. Should we take those down with the confederate flag so no body is offended?
The confederate flag is a part of our history as a nation, as well as the confederate statues that are being torn down. And as Forrest Gump said, that’s all I got to say about that.

Response by SPC Phillip Vossler made Sep 16 at 2018 9:04 PM

SPC Phillip Vossler — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 21:04:42 -0400

I served on active duty from 98-05. Was stationed at Ft. Eustis. I ended up in the barracks in 02, just before deploying to Kuwait in 03, i am from Georgia, was born at NAS Jax in Jacksonville FL, in my barracks room, i had 2 belt buckles in my room, that celebrated Georgia and Florida being apart of the CSA, and no one said a word. Ive been out of the army since feb 2005. Not sure if there were regs then, or now, but nobody seemed to care. Just my 2 cents

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 11:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 23:11:22 -0400

Much like the origins of the swaztika were peaceful, the Nazis changed the attitude towards the symbol. While I can understand some people’s feelings toward the southern flag as well as the history behind it, I think the symbol has evolved over the last 150 years. Today I see it as representative of regional pride. Much like the Cascadia flag of the NW or the State of Jefferson of Nor Cal & Southern Oregon. Multiple Native American tribes were defeated, yet almost all have tribal flags which they proudly fly.

We can’t cleanse our past by removing it. Some people flying the southern flag is not a sign we are going to have another civil war and institute slavery. To coin a term from the left, our diversity is our strength. This flag is nothing more than another piece of our diversity.

Response by Pvt Robert L. Lamoreaux made Sep 17 at 2018 6:06 PM

Pvt Robert L. Lamoreaux — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:06:19 -0400

WOW! Captain, I hope your helmet is firmly secured on your head! I can't answer your first two questions, though my gut reaction is that ostentatious display of the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia by an active duty serviceman is distructive of "good order" and the culture sought to be advanced. This might take educating troops, both those who hate that flag and those who "love" it. The issues that stand out to me are that those who display that flag may simply be doing so to express somewhat unfounded beliefs about "freedom" and "independence" and "individuality" and not necessarily expressing a "racial belief". Others may find the flag offensive because they see it as a very racist symbol. (I wonder how they feel - either one of these positions - about being stationed at A.P. Hill, Bragg, Stewart, or any number of installations named for Confederate generals?)
I believe it is well accepted that the Civil War was fought over slavery. But there was a deeper, philosophical cause as well: could the Union, once entered into, be dissolved?
One of the key issues is that the battle flag - which was not the flag of the C.S.A. - became the flag of the KKK. The reaction to the battle flag is sort of like the reaction to the swastika: an innocuous symbol (used by Finland) before adopted by the Nazis.
Which symbolism does the battle flag reflect? A flag followed by brave men - most, I suspect, not owning slaves - fighting for self-determination or a flag making a racial statement? As an old man, an historian, and born-and-bred Northerner, it represents the former rather than the latter. And this is the distinction that education might help troops to understand.

Response by SPC John Georges made Sep 17 at 2018 6:22 PM

SPC John Georges — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:22:40 -0400

Why would you want to fly the flag of the enemy of the USA? You can make any justification you want, but you can't argue against the fact that it is the flag of the enemy of the United States of America. That's a fact.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Sep 17 at 2018 6:30 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:30:13 -0400

It's part of the history of our country. If they aren't shoving it it into my face I say tolerate it. Drive on. If I want to drive around with a Minnesota Vikings flag on my truck there are a large percentage of people from Wisconsin that aren't going to like it either!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2018 9:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 09:50:14 -0400

There are local policies in place that forbid displaying offensive content. Trouble is defining offensive content. The Army wont let you display the Confederate flag in view of others from your quarters. State flags are fine, other country flags are fine. They used to tell us that it was unprofessional behavior and unbecoming of a SM to display a symbol of hate. My own opinions differ but, again, how do you define offensive content?

Response by SPC Paul Fiske made Sep 18 at 2018 4:19 PM

SPC Paul Fiske — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 16:19:13 -0400

Remember that most of the military are southerners! This is something close to their hearts. It doesn’t mean that they are ‘white’ supremacists. They are patriots!

Response by SSG Mark Matteson made Sep 18 at 2018 4:20 PM

SSG Mark Matteson — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 16:20:50 -0400

Nothing wrong with it at all, its a symbol of American Liberty.

Response by PO3 Ian Favata made Sep 18 at 2018 5:26 PM

PO3 Ian Favata — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 17:26:54 -0400

Great question. I am from South Carolina and here is my opinion. The flag for me represents a most horrific war that killed and maimed more men than all other wars we fought put together. It was a necessary war and as far as I am concerned the Confederate flag deserves a place because it is a reminder of the suffering of slavery and the men that fought on both sides. The cliché that those who don’t remember the past are doomed to repeat it is apro po here. We must honor our past and the struggles we made to strive for equality and doing the right thing. I don’t have anything against people that don’t like the flag but every one of us veterans and those that serve protect the 1st amendment. Whether you like it or not the flag should be allowed to be displayed.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2018 6:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:28:00 -0400

1. No problem. I’m not inclined to fits of righteous indignation on behalf of unknown third parties who I merely assume would be offended. Also, there is no right not to be offended.

2. Losers who can’t let go. Also, laughable historical revisionism. “States’ rights” to do what exactly? Their ‘right’ to force other states to hunt down and forcibly return escaped slaves.

3. No.

Response by SFC Jim Me made Sep 18 at 2018 7:58 PM

SFC Jim Me — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:58:38 -0400

Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine. Way back in 1978 a Buddy of mine, Joe, whom is from NY and black, did not have a drivers license due to the cost to get one in NY and the drivers training classes one had to attend. We were stationed in Ft. Polk La. We got him a book and took him out to drive and he got it all down. I had a 1977 TA Bright Red he was using for the driving part. Well off he and I go to the local License testing branch. He took the written test and passed and so was told the Trooper would meet him out by his car for the driving test. He comes out and says he is about to take the driving test I tossed him the keys. an old(looked like a tree old kinda guy) 6'4" Louisiana Trooper not 10 feet behind him. There were 2 cars in the lot, real busy place back then. One was the old big black titanic Cadillac and my bright red Trans-Am, adorned with the Stars and Bars front plate, inside it had a Stars and Bars flag headliner. So the trooper looks around, heads towards the Caddy, Joe starts towards the T/A. The trooper was half way to the caddy when he noticed Joe not with him. He looked around and saw him headed towards the T/A and quickly headed that way. Once he got there the 1st thing he did was look at the front Stars and Bars plate and kinda looked at Joe. Then he got in immediately looking up up at the Stars and Bars Headliner and back at Joe, again with a puzzled look on his face. He pointed and off they went. Well I watched that trooper keep reflecting up and at Joe as they drove away. I watched the car go out of the lot, down to the 1st road turn around point and right back to the lot to park. The trooper got out and went inside, I asked Joe "WTF over?" He said "all he had me do was turn around after we got got on the road." I asked him if he passed he said "I don't know all he said was turn around and go back, when we got back he simply got out and walked away". I told him to go inside and see. So he did and about 10 -15 minutes later he walks out with his Drivers License in hand. Again I asked him about the driving test and what the trooper said, his reply made us both laugh "the trooper told me if I had balls big enough to drive around in a Bright Red sports car with the Stars and Bars all over it, you deserve to pass". Never judge the books, read the pages in between. Life's good

Response by CPT Jeff Reichardt made Sep 19 at 2018 1:41 PM

CPT Jeff Reichardt — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:41:42 -0400

By congressional act and signed into law by the president at the time, all confederate veterans are to be treated as any other US veteran. I see no reason for this to be an issue.

Me personally, it’s part of American history. Let us not forget.

Response by SGT Mike Ange made Sep 19 at 2018 3:01 PM

SGT Mike Ange — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:01:48 -0400

To me the flag is a symbol of southern heritage and is not representative of race suppression. I believe all considerations of symbols and actions must be taken in the context of the times. Changing that context to accommodate more current views distorts the history. We know or have read about POWs who have returned to Vietnam to shake the hands of their captors. Once they were enemies and now friends, these things change but that does not erase the lessons of history. Because that NVA soldier is a friend today does not change the heroism of the American Marine that earned a MOH trying to kill him to save a teammate 50 yrs ago. This is essentially the argument placed in a different context. Less germain but worth mentioning, I also believe that a people who suppresses, misrepresents or erases history is destined to repeat that history.

Just like every other war - the average soldier serving in the Confederate military had no political agenda. He probably had a view on slavery or states rights but it did not impact his service and he certainly had no policy influence on the wars course. He was called upon to serve his state and the evaluation of the character of his service should not change with the views of the politics of the times. The heritage of the civil war soldier on either side is simply a part of history and we should embrace the lessons learned from that history.

With all of that said let me also say, I would never post, wear or display a confederate flag where it offends those with whom I served. Not because of a regulation or a rule or a political agenda. It is simply respect. These are the people you serve with, sweat with and may be called upon to bleed with. I will do everything in my power to have your back and I have to trust that you willl have mine if I serve with you. So shouldn’t we be respectful enough to avoid something so offensive to some of those same teammates especially when it is so easy to avoid? How is this different from pornographic posters where female soldiers serve or symbols condemning a religion. I would also argue that If you need a regulation to force that basic consideration - a little self assessment may be in order.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Sep 19 at 2018 3:18 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:18:39 -0400

To answer your questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? Private vehile is just like a home...private. They have freedom of speech and should be able to display whenever or wherever it is personally owned.
How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post? None
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? The flag to me is irrelevant. I am from MS and could care less. The flag is not my flag nor have I ever served under it. It is part of our state flag so I guess it is ok to have it on there as it shows part of our states history.
What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently? I think it can be interpreted as Historical and represent heritage...I think to some it can represent hate since it was and is used by hate groups around the nation.
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader? Never experienced it and never had to deal with it.

My editorial-If you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. What I mean is that with actions come consequences. If I chose to eat my French Onion soup with the cheese bubbling from the heat on the top as soon as it arrives, I am going to burn my mouth. Same principle applies to displaying the flag...if you are going to display it then man up and be ready to accept the consequences good or bad. I do believe it is their right to display on private homes, vehicles, motorcycles, RV's etc...I do not think it is acceptable to display it at work, government facilities (Dorms) because then it becomes the voice of the government and we don't serve under that flag. Just my two cents and now I am broke again.

Response by MSgt John Bowen made Sep 19 at 2018 5:06 PM

MSgt John Bowen — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:06:34 -0400

To me it represents heritage. Also, that isn't the Confederate flag but the battle flag of Virginia.

Response by MSgt John Bowen made Sep 19 at 2018 5:12 PM

MSgt John Bowen — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:12:28 -0400

To me it represents Heritage, nothing more and nothing less. Also, this isn't the Confederate flag, but the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia. Now regarding displaying on base, I think that should be up to base policy if there's not a double-standard in place.

Response by SFC Benjamin Harrison made Sep 19 at 2018 7:19 PM

SFC Benjamin Harrison — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:19:01 -0400

I personally don’t see any issue with it. The Confederacy was one half of our beloved nation that, just like the North, fought for what they believed was right. This war cost more American lives than any other conflict. To ban or restrict this piece of history is just as disrespectful in my opinion as kneeling for the National Anthem or burning the National Colors.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 7:43 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:43:09 -0400

I would say that as a member of the military we take on a neutral responsibility and understanding that we represent the U.S armed forces and should refrain from individual displays of the sort. If you are off post and not in uniform, I wouldn’t see an issue with expressing your freedom how you see fit. On post in view of subordinates, peers, and leaders would most likely not represent the spirit of our volunteered profession.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Sep 19 at 2018 7:55 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:55:29 -0400

Off base, do what you want, but be ready to answer for it...on base...remember you're on a military installation and the Post Commander dictates what can and can not be done on HIS installation.

Response by PO1 William Van Syckle made Sep 20 at 2018 11:14 AM

PO1 William Van Syckle — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 11:14:01 -0400

I have no feelings for the flag. It does not bother me except when it is used with a hammer & sickle or a swastika. Those symbols piss me off and makes me want to pound somebody into the dirt. My Dad fought against the swastika of Nizasim and my dad and I both fought against the hammer & sickle of communism. The confederate flag is a part of our history and does not represent slavery. And, the stars and bars was a battle flag and not the southern States main flag. I have a problem with people making mountains out of molehills.....

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2018 10:36 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:36:58 -0400

I think this is a freedom of speech issue. Of which we did or do not have on base. Such as wearing a cross on a necklace that can be seen while in uniform. Having said that, you can wear the cross in civilian attire on base.

We have to level the playing field for everyone. If the US flag can be burned, football players can kneel during the anthem, people can walk around DC wearing fake genitalia on their head, and all sorts of other things that we see and hear, then this is just one of them. Freedom doesn’t mean freedom from being offended/offensive. Having said that, respect and dignity must be the standard — especially in uniform. And frankly understanding the other perspective. We have to separate radical racists from heritage-oriented people. Not everyone is a racist who displays the confederate flag. And no, I don’t display it or even want to. I’m just trying to protect our right to freedom of speech. We have to fight to keep everyone’s right, not just those we agree with.

Response by SGT Gabriel Brown made Sep 21 at 2018 12:07 PM

SGT Gabriel Brown — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 12:07:21 -0400

Fun fact: Every confederate soldier that fought was granted United States Veteran status. Honoring our ancestors who fought for the south should not be divisive, especially if you know your history.

Many of those commanders of the Confederates were prominent members of the United States Armed forces before the war, and many of their doctrines and tactics are revered to this day.

I personaly knew a Marine whose entire hood of his truck was a Confederate Battle flag. His roommate and best friend was a dark green Marine who borrowed his truck on a regular basis lol.

Bottom line, if someone wants to display their heritage in a tasteful manner, then let them do so. The Germans were Nazis in WWII, but if I had a nickle for every german flag licences plate I saw on base I'd have at least 10 bucks by now

Response by SGT Kevin Karvinen made Sep 21 at 2018 1:33 PM

SGT Kevin Karvinen — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 13:33:23 -0400

Just remember, the American flag flew over those same slave states prior to the Civil War.

Response by SPC James Jones made Sep 21 at 2018 1:35 PM

SPC James Jones — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 13:35:20 -0400

I hate that flag and and all it stands for, Treason, hate, slavery.

Response by Sgt Leland Parker made Sep 21 at 2018 3:04 PM

Sgt Leland Parker — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:04:33 -0400

On a military base one and only one flag should be on display

Response by PV2 Charles Adams made Sep 21 at 2018 3:19 PM

PV2 Charles Adams — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:19:24 -0400

I have ancestors who fought for the Confederacy, one is well studied for his artillery tactics Maj John Pelham and my G-Great grandfather who was captured during the siege of Petersburg and took to Point Lookout. I use the flag to honor their sacrifices.

Response by COL Rich McKinney made Sep 21 at 2018 5:30 PM

COL Rich McKinney — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:30:37 -0400

Not sure about the other services but I know in the Navy it is prohibited on post. What it means to you personally means something off base, just not on base. The issue become how much your off base behavior is known on base. My experience over 30 years is that nothing that happens off duty stays hidden for long. Eventually it will create a situation "contrary to good order and discipline".

Response by CW3 Tj Fallon made Sep 21 at 2018 6:48 PM

CW3 Tj Fallon — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 18:48:59 -0400

The US Congress several years ago enacted a law that stated that all personnel that served in the Confederate forces are US Veterans eligible for all rights and privileges of the US military forces. So, it seems to me that includes the it flag. Secondly, the Civil War was fought over states rights, not slavery. Yes, Pres Lincoln did emancipate the slaves, but again, the war was about the rights of the several States to secede from the union.

Response by SSgt Ronald Endsley made Sep 21 at 2018 7:28 PM

SSgt Ronald Endsley — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 19:28:45 -0400

I really don't care one way or the other about the Confederate flag. However Congress passed an act that made all those that died fighting for that flag U.S. military war dead. That pretty much sums it up for me. I respect that flag as I would any other military flag.

Response by CSM Sally Bailey made Sep 21 at 2018 9:05 PM

CSM Sally Bailey — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 21:05:08 -0400

Salley

Response by PO1 Glen Cook made Sep 21 at 2018 9:53 PM

PO1 Glen Cook — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 21:53:27 -0400

Freedom of choice anf support for ALL American Veterans...

Response by SP5 Dwain Sanders made Sep 22 at 2018 9:25 AM

SP5 Dwain Sanders — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 09:25:07 -0400

Do you know that Confederate veterans were declared by law to be U.S. veterans?

Response by SN Lloyd L Williams made Sep 22 at 2018 9:36 AM

SN Lloyd L Williams — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 09:36:03 -0400

The flag of the Confederate States of America should by no means be displayed in any form or fashion on an american military base because it represents traitors. It is the flag that caused the death of nearly 600,000,00 americans for the purpose of maintaining slavery. Furthermore, it is an abomination against the concept of democracy and freedom for all in this country.

Response by PO1 Dutch Weakland made Sep 22 at 2018 10:37 AM

PO1 Dutch Weakland — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 10:37:02 -0400

It's part of our history, and making of America, if you boycott this then by same standards you should not display any Vietnam, WWI, WWII, Korean or desert Storm decals. Of which I think is completely foolish. The civil war veterans are and proclaimed as such veterans.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2018 12:49 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 12:49:00 -0400

Perceiving something is someone’s opinion, opinions aren’t always right. Our confederate vets are considered US vets. If people would actually read our own history they would find that the confederate flag does not symbol hate and represent slavery. The civil war wasn’t even about slavery, the north just wanted everyone to think that. Reading is a powerful tool many have forgotten how to do. Reading something for what it is, is also a dead art. People read the words but assume it’s meaning

Response by SPC Travis Hopkinson made Sep 22 at 2018 1:06 PM

SPC Travis Hopkinson — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 13:06:14 -0400

One considering it is their battle flag, and not the actual Flag of the southern states of . I guess if yah want to display it fine with me. i was from the west never mattered to me, had people in the barracks that sometimes i was surprised by who had it in their rooms. If people continue to try to Find fault or problems with just a flag, well what is next there are a lot of things out there. Maybe people should just mind your own business and Love they neighbor a little more.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Sep 22 at 2018 4:35 PM

SFC Don Ward — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 16:35:41 -0400

What is really interesting to me? The animus attached to an inanimate object that has been corrupted by hate groups.

Response by SP5 Eddie Morris made Sep 22 at 2018 8:46 PM

SP5 Eddie Morris — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 20:46:06 -0400

When I was stationed in Korea we couldn’t have a southern flag up but you could have a Africian glad with the black power fist up

Response by SSG Steven Pike made Sep 22 at 2018 8:50 PM

SSG Steven Pike — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 20:50:24 -0400

I am from Vermont and I have a Texas mother, so I have family who fought on both sides. I offer exactly the same respect to my Union and my Confederate ancestors. I am not offended by the Confederate flag and its display does not bother me. It does not matter where it is displayed. I am absolutely uninterested in whether or not the flag offends someone. The military is not a place where sensitive feelings are nurtured. Whenever I see the latest hysteria over the Confederate flag or monuments, I look to Gen. Joshua Chamberlain's words, who took the surrender of Lee's army at Appomattox. It explains why this country did not dissolve, as it well could have done, into years of insurrection and guerilla warfare. Men like Chamberlain and Lee put aside their swords and respected each other In Chamberlain's words "T he momentous meaning of this occasion impressed me deeply. I resolved to mark it by some token of recognition, which could be no other than a salute of arms. Well aware of the responsibility assumed, and of the criticisms that would follow, as the sequel proved, nothing of that kind could move me in the least. The act could be defended, if needful, by the suggestion that such a salute was not to the cause for which the flag of the Confederacy stood, but to its going down before the flag of the Union. My main reason, however, was one for which I sought no authority nor asked forgiveness. Before us in proud humiliation stood the embodiment of manhood: men whom neither toils and sufferings, nor the fact of death, nor disaster, nor hopelessness could bend from their resolve; standing before us now, thin, worn, and famished, but erect, and with eyes looking level into ours, waking memories that bound us together as no other bond;--was not such manhood to be welcomed back into a Union so tested and assured?
Instructions had been given; and when the head of each division column comes opposite our group, our bugle sounds the signal and instantly our whole line from right to left, regiment by regiment in succession, gives the soldiers salutation, from the "order arms" to the old "carry"--the marching salute. Gordon at the head of the column, riding with heavy spirit and. downcast face, catches the sound of shifting arms, looks up, and, taking the meaning, wheels superbly, making with himself and his horse one uplifted figure, with profound salutation as he drops the point of his sword to the boot toe; then facing to his own command, gives word for his successive brigades to pass us with the same position of the manual,--honor answering honor. On our part not a sound of trumpet more, nor roll of drum; not a cheer, nor word nor whisper of vain-glorying, nor motion of man standing again at the order, but an awed stillness rather, as if it were the passing of the dead." That was what men were then.

Response by CPT Melanie Ryan made Sep 22 at 2018 11:01 PM

CPT Melanie Ryan — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:01:44 -0400

The Confederacy was an enemy of the United States. No one who swears an oath to protect and defend (the US) Constitution has any business flying the Confederate, or any other enemy flag.

Response by MAJ Shannon Read made Sep 22 at 2018 11:11 PM

MAJ Shannon Read — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:11:15 -0400

The flag was flown over American soil by American soldiers. Their bodies are in graves in our National cemeteries. Lincoln forgave them. It should be treated no different than any versions of the stars and stripes.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2018 6:57 AM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 06:57:40 -0400

The Confederate flag needs to be relegated to museums, not displayed on bumpers.

There is so much disinformation being pushed at our youth about the causes of the Civil War and the symbolism. Here’s my take:

1. The Civil War was about economics. In fact, economics divides our country well before. The North actually came close to seceding because of Jefferson’s Embargo Act, to the extent that Madison’s administration persuaded Congress to declare war on Britain. This is a classic play, repeated many times since.

2. The Civil War, by extension, was about the preservation of slavery. Abolishing slavery would impact the Southern economy, which is why their political leaders fought so hard to preserve it.

3. The Union screwed up Reconstruction. The reforms were aggressively imposed to the extent that we immediately had a handful of Black Congressmen for a while. Then the federal government left the South, creating space for the KKK to rise.

4. The monomers were erected during the first and second KKK surges and after the Brown decision. These monuments and all the schools that are named for Confederate leaders, were by design with the intent of reminding Blacks of their inferior status. Ergo for displaying Confederate flags.

5. Facing a threat to their control of the system, the white minority of the South fought as hard to preserve the status quo as Blacks did to exercise their right to vote. We aren’t not truly past the Civil Rights era and displays of the Confederate flag show that we are not finished with our efforts to achieve equality.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Sep 23 at 2018 7:15 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 07:15:12 -0400

This applys to all subjects not just the Confederate Flag or the UNIA Flag.
Ok - if you're offend then say it up front to the person AND THEN WALK AWAY. You don't have to explain why or lecture the person. You don't have to cry or whine or nag. You do have the responsibility to speak your mind then shut up.

Response by MAJ Thomas Amsler made Sep 23 at 2018 10:59 AM

MAJ Thomas Amsler — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 10:59:50 -0400

During WWII, the 45th Infantry Division was composed largely of Hopi, Navajo, Zuni, and other southwest tribal members. Their divisional insignia was a yellow swastika on a red diamond. The swastika was a religious symbol in their indigenous religion, but because of the swastika's affiliation with the Nazis, it was changed to a thunderbird. I am a southerner. To me, the confederate flag represents courage, élan, and a sense of home... in fact, when I was a young Marine, what it really represented to me was Lynyrd Skynyrd and the Atlanta Rhythm Section. However, our flag has been conscripted by a bunch of wet-brained racists to represent their idiotic dogma, and is a symbol of hatred to many people. So, the bottom line is this: use the manners that your mama taught you. Don't go out of the way to offend people. As an American, you have the right to display whatever you want (as long as it doesn't directly incite violence), but as a human being, you should demonstrate respect for other people's feelings. Caveat: I'm not talking about the I'm-so-special snowflakes. I'm talking about your buddies.

Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Sep 23 at 2018 4:43 PM

SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:43:09 -0400

I don’t have strong feelings about this, but, when I was at Ft. McClellan in 1962, members of the Alabama National Guard wore the Confederate Battle Flag above one of their front pockets on their fatigues.

Response by CPL Keith Jensen made Sep 23 at 2018 5:50 PM

CPL Keith Jensen — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 17:50:12 -0400

What about the Mexican flag? I have seen those on different bases.

Response by PO2 Ed Loonam made Sep 23 at 2018 8:30 PM

PO2 Ed Loonam — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 20:30:30 -0400

Nope. I completely understand those that want to display the flag. I can argue for it.
Guess what? It’s not okay.
You work within the whole. Not just a little bit.
The Battleflag meant something. It’s not there today. You are part of a whole. Black and white.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Sep 23 at 2018 8:52 PM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 20:52:04 -0400

On November 28, 1861, Confederate soldiers in General Robert E. Lee's newly reorganized Army of Northern Virginia received the new battle flags in ceremonies at Centreville and Manassas, Virginia, and carried them throughout the Civil War. ... It was sometimes called Beauregard's flag or the Virginia battle flag.... This is a flag flown in Battle against the Army and Navy of the United States of America. It does not celebrate the culture of the South, it celebrates the Army of the South. It celebrates an Army that fought and lost to preserve the right of the states to preserve the insitution of slavery.

Response by SPC Stephen DeVisscher made Sep 23 at 2018 9:26 PM

SPC Stephen DeVisscher — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 21:26:57 -0400

It's part of our history.

Response by 1SG Charles Shank made Sep 24 at 2018 10:40 AM

1SG Charles Shank — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:40:24 -0400

If there is any question on what it symbolizes, just ask it’s creator. Just because someone has been lied to, failed to research it, or just wants to believe what grandpa said does not negate the true meaning of this flag of the losing group of states who went to war to affirm their rights to maintain slavery. If there is any doubt in that read the separate letters of succession by each state of the confederacy. My question to those who wear this symbol and claim “southern pride” is, what exactly is It that you are proud of? What is the basis of the pride you claim when you say heritage not hate? How is it that the heritage of enslaving generations of people is not contained in that heritage you claim to be so innocently representing the “old south”? I am from the south and drive through a KKK traffic stop as a three year old and it scared the hell out of me even though I am white. There is no positive meaning in that flag to me.

Therefore it is my humble opinion that it has no place on a military installation where people of all backgrounds are supposed to serve together as one in the defense of this whole nation. Do what you want in your own time, pretend to display pride not hate at your residence, but let’s not insult anyone’s intelligence here.

Response by Cpl John Combs made Sep 24 at 2018 11:25 AM

Cpl John Combs — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:25:29 -0400

Which one? There were three official national flags for the CSA

Response by CPL Richard Nettles made Sep 24 at 2018 12:41 PM

CPL Richard Nettles — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:41:03 -0400

I have zero problems with the Confederate flag. Whether on or off base. Honestly, i have more problems with people that choose to fly the flags of other countries on base. The confederate flag is part of our history. It isn't a symbol of racism. If you go and research the civil war, you'll find that the main reason the sounth seceded, was because of the high taxes that were being placed on all their goods (the same reason the U.S. decided to become it's own country) and slavery wasn't an issue until the north needed to garner more support for the war because they were loosing. That's why slavery wasn't even abolished in the north until about halfway through the civil war. On the other hand, flying the flags of other nations makes it look like your loyalties are split. Flying a mexican flag? What would you do if we ever went to war with mexico? Same with puerto rico or any other nation. (I name those 2 because I've seen those the most).

Response by SGT Floyd Shown made Sep 24 at 2018 2:07 PM

SGT Floyd Shown — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 14:07:43 -0400

What will come next? Let us rename all the bases in the south. Yeah, Gen, Braxton Bragg, Confederate. general George McClellan, Confederate. Fort Lee, Fort Eustis, Fort Gordon, Fort Benning and Fort Polk were ALL named after confederate generals. We need to stop pushing the racist diatribe of the left and remember that men on BOTH sides fought for their state and their Nation. The secession of the south was IDENTICAL to the secession of the 13 original colonies from England. Stop perpetuating hate and realize that honoring the fallen is not wrong. Honoring your state is not wrong. Honoring your ancestors is not wrong. Learn the REAL history of the war and stop perpetuating the revisionist lies about slavery that was used to justify the invasion of the CSA. We are now ONE NATION. Start behaving like it and quit being pansies taking offense at everything.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2018 4:23 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 16:23:22 -0400

A few of my Soldiers asked me about this and I said it is simple. We have one flag, Old Glory. Furthermore, if things like this offend your bro/sis in arms, is it really worth it to fly the Confederate Flag?

Response by CPO Paul Klein made Sep 24 at 2018 11:19 PM

CPO Paul Klein — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 23:19:41 -0400

I personally have no issues with anyone displaying the Confederate battle flag, and believe it is a part of both Southern and US history. I understand that some may have issues with it, but also feel that much of the hysteria is being inflamed by the media and troublemakers trying to create an issue. I have never had an issue with anyone wearing or displaying the confederate flag, but did have one issue with someone wearing a Nazi swastika.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2018 9:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:36:00 -0400

I remember I was heading into the headquarters building of 3id Fort Stewart for work I saw the division CSM ripping this guy a new one in the parking lot. The soldier was displaying a huge confederate flag from the tailgate of his truck. Later that same soldier and his entire battalion chain of command appeared at my desk requesting badges for access to the building. I later found out that the soldier was flying South Carolina klan colors, and th CSM ripped the soldier again in front everyone that meant something in his battalion, along with a courts martial to get him pushed out.

Response by SSgt Albert Childress made Sep 25 at 2018 9:41 AM

SSgt Albert Childress — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:41:46 -0400

I own a Confederate flag, was not born in the U.S., am a legal immigrant who identifies as an American, but I know true history of civil war. And, for those who are offended by a flag, or a statue, of something that actually occurred in the history of this country, are those that only know what the media and others tell them, instead of researching facts. Most in the South, who own the flag, to include black Americans, do so to show pride in where they live and were born. But, because of weak politically correct minded individuals who are trying to erase history, as if it didn't happen, are offended by something that most know absolutely nothing about.

Response by SPC Steven Caliendo made Sep 25 at 2018 7:35 PM

SPC Steven Caliendo — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:35:19 -0400

First of all, that is not the Confederate flag, that's the Confederate Battle Flag. I'm an old soldier who fought in Vietnam, anytime I would see that flag I really thought nothing of it back then, just some Southern Boys showing their pride in where they came from. It never diminished their pride in America or their sense of Duty or their willingness to engage the enemy. In my opinion it still doesn't! I find people kneeling when our national anthem is played and Our Stars and Stripes displayed as more offensive! But that's my opinion.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2018 7:43 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:43:41 -0400

If you’re going to ban one flag ban everyone that’s not the US flag.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Oct 1 at 2018 8:52 AM

1SG Dale Cantrell — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 08:52:51 -0400

The rebel flag is just a rebel flag, shows wild character, just like a Texas or New York flag . But I do question seeing all those flags flying from different countries, if the s--- hit the fan, what flag do they follow

Response by SPC Jesse Davis made Oct 2 at 2018 5:23 PM

SPC Jesse Davis — Tue, 02 Oct 2018 17:23:59 -0400

It is distinctly unprofessional, provocative, and political as all hell.

One way or the other, that treasonous and racist nonsense has no business in the military or on any installation.

Response by SMSgt Jane B. made Oct 14 at 2018 1:53 AM

SMSgt Jane B. — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 01:53:46 -0400

Many of my ancestors fought for the Confederacy (and many more for the Union). I personally am not offended by the flag, but I understand that many folks are. I wouldn't have an issue with display of the Confederate flag on or off post. To me, the Confederate flag is a symbol of history, a symbol of family, a symbol of home. Now, some folks have used the flag in a racist way--I denounce those actions.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Oct 14 at 2018 3:38 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 15:38:12 -0400

My experience with the confederate flag really began in 1971, when upon after enlisting in USAF, I was to Lackland AFB for training. Being in Texas, I saw alot of Confederate flags. On and off base, on cars, trucks, belt buckles, etc. Being a New York raised teen, I didn't feel intiminated or threaten. After BMT, came tech school in Illionois. More Confederate flags on base, not so many in town. Then came my first duty assignment to Udon RTAFB, Thailand., my assignment was in Det.1, 56SOW. The AGE shop had a break table (hand made, picnic type) with the top painted with a Confederate flag on it. 99% of the 10 of us were southern born raised or sympathectic. Talk about : the sole yankee in the deep south! I made myself clear, that the battle flag of the south, didn't make me feel uncomfortable, angry or out of place. We all got along fine. After my tour came LittleRock AFB, Arkansas. I felt like the assignments God in D.C., was a southerner! No problem there either. Five years there, a BOP for Hurlburt Field, FL, back to Special Operations and deeeeeeepp in the heart of Dixie. Confederate flags on the flag poles everywhere! The base even had the old flag of Florida, with the Confederate half flag flying. Tours in Germany, Japan, TDYs to Saudi Arabia, Korea and numerous other countries and the stars and bars of the south followed me. Finally my last duty station would land me in Holloman AFB, NM. Not many stars and bars there, but still there were many to be seen. Was offended by seeing them everywhere I was based? NO. I remember a race relations class in Arkansas, with a black instructor. He played high school football in Louisiana and had a white team mate who had sewen a confederate flag on his team jersey. Their team was playing another state's school that was up north. This teenager became really concerned about showing the stars and bars at that game. The instructor told him, that flag he worn was colored red, white and blue. Just like the American flag. He was a southern American and should stand proud as one. I agree. If you weren't born in the USA, but became a citizen, and you xsewed on your homland's flag or fly from the mirror of your car, along with the American flag. Be proud, you're an American now. Okay haters come at me

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Oct 14 at 2018 8:29 PM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 20:29:03 -0400

Hello Fellow Rally Pointers...
I grew up in California...a State since 1850 that was on the Winning Side of the American Civil War. I was ignorant of the underlying causes of the war except to know it ended slavery in the United States of America.

After my commissioning in 1980 I started to clear up some of my ignorance by reading "Lee's Lieutenants" by Douglas Southall Freeman...three volumes published from 1942 to 1946. Freeman had access in some cases to survivors of the War as well as primary and secondary sources. His work pioneers historical research based on eyewitness accounts that were written down by participants themselves.

Before 1860 the first challenge to the SUPREMACY of the U.S. Constitution took place in DEC 1832...over tariffs...South Carolina passed an "Annulment Act" to disallow collection of tariff revenues from Charleston. They did not like the Tariff that Congress wrote, and that President Jackson "Signed". In response to the SC Legislature, President Jackson asked CONGRESS to authorize the use of force to collect the Tariffs from Charleston. Congress passed the "FORCE ACT" authorizing the use of FEDERAL TROOPS to enforce the Tariff of 1832 in Charleston.

SC attempted enlist GA, NC and VA to join them in "Annulment"...Virginia ignored the offer; GA never got around to making a response...NC thought about it until President Jackson asked them, "You want all of those Cherokee to come back from Oklahoma?"

As Federal Troops took the road to Charleston, the SC Legislature rescinded the "Annulment Act" and then voted to annul the "FORCE ACT"...and there history holds its breath for 28 years.

The Confederates believed in something about Southern State's Rights...preservation of slavery was one of those "Rights" that were threatened with infringement because expansion of the Country meant slave-states would eventually be unable to preserve the Institution of Slavery in the Federal Government...also, recall that New York, Delaware, New Jersey and Maryland were "SLAVE STATES" who joined the Union against the South because preservation of the UNION was paramount in their allegiance to the USA.

The Union utterly destroyed the Confederate States because TOTAL WAR was applied to their sovereign territories; was it worth it?

Today the magnitude of the struggle from 1860-1865 to PRESERVE the UNION can be guessed at by visiting Battlefield Monuments...go the Chattanooga Battlefields...massive granite monuments for the Union and Confederate Regiments are there to mark the passing of men, horses and armaments.

Go to the Shiloh Battlefield in Tennessee...24,000 men became casualties in two days of toe-to-toe slaughter. Look at the graves marked "UNKNOWN"...what did that man die for?

680,000 Americans died in that war...380,000 on the Union side...50% of every death was a "Camp Death"...not from combat but from living out in the open...respiratory illnesses and camp fevers.

What does a statue of Robert E. Lee, Jeff. Davis, P.G.T. Beauregard and George Pickett mean to me? They beg to be studied. Did their own psychological attachment to an economic system based on slavery make any sense in the 21st Century? What did mid-19th Century men consider their inalienable rights?

They all participated in the Mexican American War which defeated the Mexican Army and annexed vast parts of North America for the USA. It was a "LAND GRAB" at the expense of Mexico...and in defense of President Polk, I would say that the Mexicans didn't have very big plans in first place...so, better for the USA. Taking Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California away from Mexico was a better deal for Americans. Americans had plans to tie the country together with railroads and settlement...the Mexicans did not share the same vision.

In defense of Mexico, they were oppressed by the Spanish and a certain church from 1521 to 1821...colonial administration left the population at 97% illiteracy...a real handicap for a group of people suddenly expected to govern themselves without a single legacy institution like the "House of Burgess of Virginia" to build upon. It took Mexico from 1821 to 1880 to have a balanced budget under Porfirio Diaz, Dictator from 1880 to 1910. Hardly a democracy in being. The lesson is that a population with a liberal education is better equipped to determine their own future...otherwise ignorant mob behavior is the best you can expect...just look at the ANTIFA losers in the news today.

So why did the US Army Lieutenants of 1845-1846 decide to partition the "Whole Country" as CSA Army Generals of 1860-1865 into separate parts...Free and Slave parts?

Flags carry meaning. The United States of America Flag is posted on the MOON...it is there because a Country named United States of America put it there. Our Flag carries meaning for every person on Planet Earth...our enemies despise and fear us; our Country men and women see it for their own experiences...around the world that Flag evokes an emotion no matter where it is seen...Americans are special...we are non-conformists...the Flag carries that message.

The "Stars & Bars" represent the Army of Northern Virginia...the striking arm of the Confederacy that forged its own winning record...a shield of men, horses and armaments that protected Richmond, Virginia all the way to APR 1865. Under Robert E. Lee the "Army of Northern Virginia" defeated half a dozen Union Generals for four and a half long and bloody years. In the end the Union applied a policy of "Total War" against the CSA...General Grant applied attrition warfare against the Army of Northern Virginia to the point that resistance collapsed for lack of men, horses and armaments...the Peace between Lincoln and Grant was interrupted with the Johnson Administration...an unexpected break in policy continuity that didn't help anyone.

When I was in high school the "Stars & Bars" were used as sort of an infantile symbol of defiance...like when you decide you are going to drink beer before you are of legal age, all the way through high school...something silly...the "Stars & Bars" evoked a feeling of "futile act of defiance". As a symbol of repression or denying someone their Constitutional Rights? Not really. The Ku Klux Klan makes that message clear...not the Stars & Bars.

I recently found a newspaper obituary from 1900 that mentions a distant relative...George Hearn of Arkansas, who joined the 33rd Georgia Regiment, CSA. What moved this ancestor to join arms against the UNION? It deserves more research. Did he own slaves? I don't know, yet.

From my grandmother (1907 to 2010) I learned that Union Guerillas tortured my Great-Great Grandfather Johnson to give up the location of valuables and livestock by burning his feet in a fire. I would guess he did not take a loyalty oath during RECONSTRUCTION. My family roots in Arkansas and North Carolina were Southern Sympathizers...the question is, "Why?" The way we see news reporting today, population segments can be overly influenced in the absence of multiple information sources. We see this all the time in the "Shock Entertainment Industry Media" (Left-Wing Journalism) and what I accept as "more balanced"...Conservative News Outlets...so what sort of news shaped their attitudes and opinions to support the Southern Cause? I assume they were literate...planters...had access to at least ONE NEWSPAPER in the wilderness farms of Arkansas in the 1850s.

I don't display the Stars & Bars because I have no emotional connection with the symbol. I recognize that there were Brave Americans living between 1860 to 1865 who chose to fight and die believing in their purpose under that FLAG. So I don't ban the Stars & Bars because it would shut down introspection...inquiry...as to what motivates brothers and sisters with a common political heritage to kill each other in fighting that was "Hand to Hand" at times. In the end, slavery was abolished and the Confederacy burned to ashes...was there an alternate way to avoid the bloodshed?

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Oct 14 at 2018 9:02 PM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 21:02:06 -0400

If wearing a "STARS & BARS FLAG SHIRT" and an NC State Flag on your truck (in combination) gets you "LAID"...what's wrong with that?

Response by SrA Larry Ingram made Oct 15 at 2018 7:37 AM

SrA Larry Ingram — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:37:09 -0400

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it

Response by SGT Jon Creager made Oct 21 at 2018 8:01 PM

SGT Jon Creager — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:01:51 -0400

It only creates a problem when asshole want it too. So you say Soldiers dont have the 1st Amendment rights. I think its time for you to leave the military .

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Oct 21 at 2018 8:27 PM

LTC Stephan Porter — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:27:31 -0400

Without entering the “confederate” issue discussion specifically; I had another though based on your preamble to the questions:

Regarding the, “...one member deeply offending another...”

Frankly, agree that there are things that are just too hurtful and should not be allowed (like the Confederate flag), but...

How far should this go? To what degree and lengths, hiw for teaching should a policy forbidding “offensive” things be amen?

Just a thought.

Response by CPL William Brown made Oct 25 at 2018 10:57 PM

CPL William Brown — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:57:37 -0400

The Civil War WAS NOT ABOUT SLAVERY. It was about session from the union. Why would 4 slave states join the North to fight against the south if it was about slavery. If you and I lived in a southern state and the North invaded our homeland, we would have risen up to protect our homes and family would we not? That is why the confederate flag is important. Many heroes and patriots died under that flag defending their homeland.

Response by SPC Phillip Anderson made Oct 28 at 2018 3:06 PM

SPC Phillip Anderson — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 15:06:04 -0400

It's a First Amendment issue and the leaders of the post can suspend First Amendment rights for the welfare of the whole.
That being said, I also believe that images of Che Guevara should be banned.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2018 6:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 18:32:30 -0400

First off, good Q/A.
Personally, I don't get offended too easily. When it comes to this flag, it can be offensive to some, especially if there are certain actions that accompany it. To me, it symbolizes racism and hurt that was caused to some of my family members.
It wouldn't matter if a SM was on or off post.
From a leader's point of view, if ANYTHING was displayed that others found offensive, then there is cause to have said item removed as to not disrupt good order and discipline. If any such display distracts from mission accomplishment and lowered moral, then it has no business in the AO.
To ask someone to remove something deemed offensive to others would be the right thing to do. It doesn't mean that someone is being judged or treated differently because of their beliefs. It would mean that someone is now having to work in a hostile environment, making it harder for the organization to be fully mission capable and to complete the mission. We have to learn to be cognizant of our surroundings and understand that there are differences amongst all of us. It's about being a part of a team and doing what's best for all, and not just one.

Response by 1stSgt Phil Mendoza made Nov 1 at 2018 10:24 PM

1stSgt Phil Mendoza — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 22:24:49 -0400

I agree 100%! The confederate flag is a symbolism of the south, it does not represent hate. Even though those spreading hate use it, that is not what it represents. I blame social media and dumbasses. Who by the way wanted all the confiderate general statues taken down. They want history to be erased. Some people are very proud of their state flag, and where they are from. As far as base goes, I wish I had an answer for you. Every base regardless of orginazation is a melting pot of personalities, races and cultures. If your not flying anything Derogatory or vulgar, you should be allowed to display it. But, that is the base commanders desicion.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Nov 11 at 2018 12:22 PM

PO3 Scot Fahey — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 12:22:51 -0500

First understand, this is a Naval Jack. I have no requirement to accept how activist have tried to redefine historic artifacts. Two, if you allow your emotions to be controlled by this symbol, then you are no longer in control of your emotions. The equals a really bad plan.
Remember not to allow your self to be provoked. The moments after you respond to being provoked, you will often find there was a camera recording you . Often a really less than positive outcome.
DO NOT play the game, there is no way to win.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Nov 18 at 2018 8:23 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Sun, 18 Nov 2018 20:23:37 -0500

CPT,
The Confederate flag is a symbol if rebellion against these United States. It is not a symbol of American culture.
American culture is small government and Independence from same. Freedom has it's limits, or you have Anarchy.
I realize, the Confederate flag started over States rights. Again, Freedom has limits.
A lot of people see it has a symbol of oppression. It is, in a way a symbol of oppression. Therefore, it should be placed into history where it belongs. We don't have to destroy everything to change history. For example, we don't destroy Italy because it enslaved the world.
In America's military, now, we judge by action. Not color. This is what JFK, MLF and RFK stood for. Let us set the example for our fellow citizens and the world.
Have good evening CPT.

Response by CAPT Hiram Patterson made Nov 24 at 2018 10:36 PM

CAPT Hiram Patterson — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 22:36:00 -0500

The US flag flew far longer over states that had slaves than the Confederate flag did. It was the northerners of New England who were some of the biggest slavers long before the Civil War under the the US flag when slavery was legal throughout the states.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Dec 3 at 2018 1:37 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 01:37:12 -0500

The Confederate Flag is the symbol of those who chose to secede from the United States in order to prevent the loss of their slave labor.
In other words DEMOCRATS.
Personally I wouldn’t cross the street and would step over rather than piss on a democrat politician to put them out of on fire.
Democrat voters are those who have never bothered to pull the wool (or perhaps I should say cotton) off their eyes or out of their ears while listening to the constant drone of the democrat mosquito which carries in it the poison of racial division and identity politics.
So no. Fuck the confederate flag.
Too many men died defending for and against slavery to maintain that symbol.
I think that if I started printing toilet paper with the confederate flag embossed or emblazoned on it then I should make my fortune.
That piece of asswipe belongs in a museum focusing on the evils of war and slavery rather than in public.
I forgive those ignorant of its history and understand the why of its appeal to even non racists.
Amen to that.

Response by CPT Johnny Morris made Dec 3 at 2018 1:15 PM

CPT Johnny Morris — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 13:15:21 -0500

As a Platoon Leader during the early 1970’s this issue surfaced while we were in the field. A soldier had displayed the stars and bars flag. I had the Plt. Sgt. assemble the platoon for a history class. I gave a brief overview of the wars fought against the Stars and Stripes. Then I ask the question if anyone thought it be appropriate to fly the union jack, the rising sun, the iron cross & etc., carefully skipping the stars and bars. Almost 100% said it would not be appropriate. Then I ask why then would it be appropriate to fly the stars and bars while swearing allegiance to our country enemies, both foreign and domestic. A soldier got up and went to his flag pole and removed his flag and apologized to all present. This worked for me, at that time, and maybe difussed a potential situation. Every situation is unique and each group has their own group personality.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Dec 30 at 2018 11:55 AM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 11:55:09 -0500

I think, as long as you're in the military, whether Active, Reserves, or the National Guard of any branch of service, you're subject to UCMJ and should follow suit. If Veterans are back home and don't involve themselves in criminal mischief, it's a freedom of expression and have the right to do so, as long as it doesn't step on other people's toes, e.g. Nationalist of any race intentionally going to cities and causing trouble.

Response by LTJG Jeb Raitt made Jan 2 at 2019 9:23 PM

LTJG Jeb Raitt — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 21:23:49 -0500

The Confederate Battle Flag (aka the Southern Cross) is and has always been a symbol of armed rebellion against the established order and should be TOTALLY banned except in specific historical contexts. And as much as possible, in such contexts one of the actual National Flags of the Confederacy (there were three) should be used instead of the Battle Flag.
(One such context is in the Confederate section of the Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond, VA, where they fly the Third National.)

Response by LTC John Bush made Jan 18 at 2019 3:00 PM

LTC John Bush — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:00:08 -0500

You can make a very good intellectual argument that the confederate battle flag is just a southern symboland not a symbol for slavery. For example the Hawaii flag has the union jack which represents Britain which actually introduced slavery to North America and no one says a word, the Georgia flag is actually based on the Confederate national flag and no one has issue with it. Reaction to the "stars and bars" battle flag is purely emotional and displaying it as an American soldier is probably currently in poor taste.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2019 7:13 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:13:37 -0400

I have been dealing with higher ranking telling me to take the Confederate flag off of the front of my truck (since i have no front license plate for the state i put a rebel flag plate on it) the flag by no means has any rude or insulting meaning but according to the higher rankings it's article 15 worthy but there no rules or regulation against it from what i looked up. Someone help me if therw any regs please site them to me

Response by SFC William Bethea made Jun 4 at 2019 9:04 PM

SFC William Bethea — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:04:07 -0400

You can not display the Stars and Bars, except for certain occasions by federal law.

Everyone displays the Southern Cross (Dixie), GEN Robert E. Lee's personal battle flag for the Army of Virginia.
He did not formally own slaves, he was against them. The only reason he fought for the South was Virginia seceded, read history.
(There is a belief that he gave up his final battle plans to save the Republic?)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2019 7:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 19:47:06 -0400

I’m not a fan of flags on trucks at all, I’ve never done but. I feel it would be a safety or a distraction, like I said I’ve never done it.

I like looking at flags, especially civil war flags. I really wish states would not change the state flags, such as Georgia, that state has had way to many flags. Luckily Florida still holds its confederate history in the flag.

As for the flag in the picture that’s not even a real flag.

As far as flying the battle flag of Virginia (what everyone knows as the confederate flag) it’s hard to say I feel it should be ok. However most people don’t know the history and say it’s the confederate flag. Which leads me into saying that no one should be flying the stars and bars or any Confederate National flag (there is 8 in total). I could also no flag from the confederacy to include the Battle flag of Virginia. I say this only because that flag was a square. The flag most of America knows as “the Confederate Flag” is actually The Second Confederate Navy Jack and should be seen nowadays as someone saying I’m from the South, not necessarily the Confederacy.

This is where leaders need to pay attention to see if other signs are shown towards a negative value, then revoke that person’s ability to fly it and remove them from the Army.

Response by SSG Terry Cummings made Nov 28 at 2019 1:08 PM

SSG Terry Cummings — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:08:45 -0500

that is a touchy subject ! I live in south and have had bad vibes from civilian and military people over similar things for years all I heard was you D_ _ Yankees need to go back north .I can respect if your from the south and had family in that battle I understand it's a battle flag. but unfortunately another type group claimed that flag.so that puts in a category that it should not be flying in or on a military institution. you and I and others have family members that fought battles in other other countries and we should respect thier flags . different situations smaller concept if I was from Texas and proud of my flag and wanted it on my uniform ? military installations and military uniforms have same rules and vfc respects.

Response by SP5 Robert Hayhurst made Dec 9 at 2019 11:26 AM

SP5 Robert Hayhurst — Mon, 09 Dec 2019 11:26:27 -0500

It was a flag created by soldiers to represent their values and to keep from being mistaken by the opposing force. It has been usurped by nefarious groups, and so has the us one. I don't care as long as they aren't being obnoxious. I had to tolerate probably and mexican flags and all.kinds of.college stuff. As long as we aren't exclusive and causing trouble why not

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 22 at 2020 10:39 AM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 10:39:17 -0400

I'm going to answer your questions indirectly.
1) If I'm going to offend someone, I want the offense to be intentional and targeted. Knowing that a large number of people might be offended, people who I do not want to offend, I'll have nothing to do with the Confederate Flag. If someone I knew, peer, subordinate, or senior; I'd ask them if they were aware that they might be offending people. How they respond would probably tell me all I need to know.

2) To me the Confederate Flag is a historical icon. It has no meaning. I know that some other people feel differently. I find it odd that a symbol of rebellion against the government still incites favorable passion in the some people who are also "proud to be an American."

3) My troop commanding days, the platoon's were in open squad bays, so there were no personal displays. The Marine Corps was in the tail end of pretty bad racial violence, so anyone displaying any type of racial symbols (Confederate Flags, Black Panther symbols, Latino gang signs) got "extra special" attention.

Response by SPC David Williams made Jun 7 at 2020 7:43 PM

SPC David Williams — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 19:43:29 -0400

To me the Confederate Flag doesn't bother me in the slightest so it would not bother me if someone displayed it.
The Confederate flag reps the south and it heritage. To others I know it reps something totally different and mostly because the symbol of the flag has been adopted by hate groups which gives it the bad rap it doesn't deserve. I guess I have an affection for this flag because I had family members fight in the south during the civil war, although I disagree with their reason they went to war with the north.
I can not remember any instance during my time in service that the Confederate flag was an issue.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Jul 12 at 2020 4:08 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 16:08:47 -0400

I believe this question has become moot because more and more units check with the Marines have now ordered the Confederate flag to be removed from everything. Anyone that displays the confederate flag can we easily be assumed that he or she is displaying it for a reason. I have found no one that can give me a good explanation of that reason. Many people say it’s because we’re proud of our southern heritage. But when I asked him what the sudden heritage that you’re proud of is either they can’t articulate it or it has nothing to do with the confederate flag.

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Jul 13 at 2020 7:43 PM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:43:16 -0400

According to many historians the flag had nothing to do with slavery or owning slaves sent
from Europe or Africa. It was about States Rights. There were several Southern Flags flown
by different states. The current Confederate flag grew to become the most popular and stands
for State Rights even today. It has become a hate symbol by those who are looking for something
for a reason to hate and/or change history.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2020 6:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 18:36:11 -0400

No, only on your personal civilian clothing

Response by LT MaryBeth Southwell made Aug 7 at 2020 7:26 AM

LT MaryBeth Southwell — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 07:26:31 -0400

I am a white person I'm a history major. I get offended when I see what is now called the "confederate" flag. I feel that those who display it unfortunately believe in the lost cause narrative which was a must education of the southern youth on purpose by the confederacy and racists. Even if the flag meant what they think- Why what do you want to display your pride in the fact that one of your ancestors committed treason Hand to the point you had to wear Something proclaiming their treason on you unless you still held their values. The Civil War was not about states rights it was clearly and only about slavery ask also clearly stated in the declarations of war. Wearing the symbolism also implies to me you feel the south will rise again - that also feels un patriotic and offensive. Finally a person who feels They need to wear a divisive symbols such as this to display their heritage regardless of who they offend tells me that person is not a thoughtful or caring person. That is not who I want to represent me as a member of the military and as a retired officer.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2020 10:49 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 10:49:06 -0400

I feel that the confederate flag should be allowed just like the US flag or another flag that is not deemed to be a symbol of hate. That being said I know that some people see the flag as a hate crime but "in my opinion" they only refer to this flag not for what it stood for as a symbol of the states the withdrew from the US but as a slave banner. I fly both as a testament to all our history but that is just me. With that being said I think if people hate the confederate flag they should also hate the US flag based on the same reasons. It was a symbol for the men and women of the south to rally behind just like our now 50 star flag we of the armed forces rally behind and fight for a symbol of freedom we have all shed blood sweat and tears.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Sep 6 at 2020 4:29 AM

CPT Carolyn Andrews — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 04:29:24 -0400

It's part of our history.

Response by SFC James Welch made May 3 at 2021 3:24 PM

SFC James Welch — Mon, 03 May 2021 15:24:41 -0400

Being born and raised in Kentucky my early Heros were Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, John Mosby along with George Washington and Francis Marion. Kentucky was truly torn as it’s families frequently fought on both sides. None of my people owned Slaves or knew anyone who did but they were against the North telling the South how to Govern themselves. The Slavery Question was a political argument and did not involve the Common man who farmed his rocky acres with one mule and owned one cow, if he was lucky. Children went barefoot in the summer. Usually everyone owned a Squirrel gun and shotgun in order to kill small game to supplement their garden. The Stars and Bars Identified the Southern Troops to keep from shooting their own people as war is very confusing at times, especially then. So now we are here so many years later and and people who had nothing to do with the War are upset when a person wears a flag to remember his or her Heritage of Brave ancestors who answered the call of their State to defend it from attacks from the Northern Armies. While My Hero might be your Villain, so is the reverse true. Talk to the people of Atlanta about General Sherman. Still his ancestors are proud of him and rightly so. Today we have much to disagree over. No one who has a Confederate Flag beloved in Slavery and they Damn sure have never owned a slave nor their Father or Grandfather. Today things like this are a personal choice. Let them stay that way.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2021 9:57 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 09:57:26 -0400

My late stepdad retired from the Army as a CW4. He was a Purple Heart recipient and member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. He said that had he been around then he would have fought for the south. He was a good man and it’s because of him that I just cannot see the Confederacy as the embodiment of evil that I feel like I’m being told it was. At the very least I have some respect for those guys as fellow soldiers.

Response by SFC Antonio Baird made Aug 7 at 2021 2:43 PM

SFC Antonio Baird — Sat, 07 Aug 2021 14:43:22 -0400

DOD should institute a comprehensive policy for all the services both on and off post.
When I see a rebel flag I immediately think of slavery, lynchings, and other demeaning actions such as white only sections. On a battlefield the rebel flag supporter may move slowly to help a Soldier of color. Conversely, a Soldier of color may be slow to help the rebel flag supporter. You cannot even have the mere thought of something like these deliberate acts in a unit.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2021 12:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 12:48:49 -0400

this is simple.
the Confederacy was an enemy of the USA and unlike other past enemies of the USA, it is not was not recognized as an ally or partner.