Female to Female Mentorship... Doing it right or wrong?

2014-01-10T15:04:37-05:00

The following came across a facebook page I watch today, about a F2F mentorship event at Fort Stewart.<div> </div><div>"Today on Fort Stewart, every single female Soldier attended a mandatory "female to female mentorship" program. During the introductory speech, a full-bird colonel referenced the female Soldier population as "Diva's in boots" and talked about how males don't take us seriously and we have to band together. Then they released us to attend 20 min "classes" set up by 3rd party groups. Those classes included the proper application of makeup and sterilization of brushes, the importance of sports bras and other supportive workout gear, and couponing, to name a few. Seriously, you can't make this shit up. This actually happened. There was also a class on "performance enhancement"… we were half expecting them to be issuing out kneepads." </div><div> </div><div>Good idea or bad? Could it have been better thought through? Suggestions?</div>

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 10 at 2014 3:34 PM

2014-01-10T15:34:33-05:00

I think it is an example of reverse sexism, based on the things you mentioned from the event, I would be a little concerned of the male bashing comments and verbiage that took place behind the closed doors that the press were not privy too.

I don't think it was thought through very well at all, especially with the comments made by the COL, this is very similar to the comments made by the female COL who talked about pretty women in the Army not being able to portray the truth.

This is a powder keg about to be ignited in the near future.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 10 at 2014 3:35 PM

2014-01-10T15:35:36-05:00

I read that today Chief. Almost posted it like you did. Glad you did. At my last unit, the leadership had a "female only sensing session." It did not go over too well by the number of female Soldiers that spoke to me about it afterward. I believe that there is absolutely lessons learned that should be shared from current female service members to new generation female service members. While we as a nation and as an Army have come a long way over the past 20-30 years, there is still a long way to go. Lessons learned passed down is a great way to ensure forward motion is maintained. I believe that mentorship is a must.

I am also curious how female Soldiers feel about this topic.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2014 5:07 PM

2014-01-10T17:07:37-05:00

It sucks to say this but in my short time in the Army I have found this to be true. The female population is significantly smaller compared to ours. Don't get me wrong there are STELLAR female soldiers but on the same side there are some that drastically need improvement. Since it is a smaller pool of to pull from at times we all lump them together saying things like "She is a female they all skate through." Which is not always the case. If we want things to get better for the opposite sex it is our responsibility to hold our soldiers to a standard. Even if that means for males to learn regulations pertaining to females. These performance enhancing classes are bogus to me, where is mine!?! when I see a female SM I see exactly that a SM not a woman. And the sooner we all come to this realization and this includes females as well (not talking about all of them just the select few who think they are special because they are female SM's) the better off our military will be.

And maybe making PT standards equal across the board.... You all are fooling to yourselves if you say you don't know at least one female who can whoop you in PT. but thats a whole different topic.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2014 6:03 PM

2014-01-10T18:03:28-05:00

Hello CW2 Evans,

Sometimes the core purpose of an event gets lost when relayed from blog to blog. My read (below) is there may have been more substance to the Fort Stewart program than I thought. While I strongly prefer one-to-one mentoring, sometimes we need this kind of mass event to put service members together where they meet potential mentors.

This specific Fort Stewart program included classes focused on Sexual Harassment Assault Response, Community Service and Family Advocacy programs. I personally believe the Divas in Boots title may be an unfortunate and demeaning choice. But, I understand why it may help to put women together to explore mentoring opportunities in a safe environment.

Warm Regards, Sandy

Source: http://www.fortstewartfrontline.com/archivedFrontline/Frontline12-12-13News.pdf

4th Brigade program goes installation-wide

Sgt. Joshua Laidacker, 4IBCT Public Affairs

Female Soldiers of 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team gathered for one last Female- to-Female mentorship session at the 4th IBCT Headquarters building on Dec. 5, before the program goes installation wide in January.

On this particular occasion these female Soldiers participated in many classes with varying themes more specialized toward women, which included Sexual Harassment/ Assault Response, community service and Family advocacy programs woven into each one.

Sergeant First Class Erendira Cortez, platoon sergeant and an Army SHARP representative with the 703rd Brigade Support Battalion, 4th IBCT, started the Female-to-Female mentorship program in July of this year with the intent of enhancing the lives of the female Soldiers in her battalion. As word spread of the program, it grew bigger in size and soon Soldiers from all across the 3rd Infantry Division started to attend the mentoring sessions.

“Fourth Brigade had already got the ball rolling and it just made sense to expand it installation wide,” said Col. Dianne Pannes, Dentac Commander, who is also the senior female commander on the installation and was newly appointed the duty of heading the Female-to-Female Mentorship installation program.

Pannes says the program will have an installation wide kick-off at the Main Post Chapel, on Jan. 10, and expects about 2500 female service members to attend the event that is slated to include several guest speakers.

Cortez said from the beginning she dreamed the program would become a division-wide program.

“It’s hard to believe but it’s a good miracle come true,” Cortez said of her program’s growing. “I’m glad that it’s in the right hands with the right people and I can see it blossoming.”

“They’re [females] less than 10 percent of the Soldier population on Fort Stewart,” Pannes said. “They’re, just by numbers, challenged with isolation and reduced networking opportunities. Some of the females in the unit may be the only female in the unit.” Pannes said the amount of support was overwhelming with requests from the mayors of Savannah, Pembroke, and Hinesville, as well as many others from the installation.

“It does bring visibility to the tools and resources that we have on the installation,” Pannes said, who spoke at the Dec. 5 event. “I’m excited about the off-post support, but the on-post support is unsung actually and I’m really appreciative for their enthusiasm.”

“Today we held our Female-to-Female mentorship and it was called Divas in Boots,” Cortez said. “It’s kind of a bitter sweet special because it’s the last one I get to see here in 4th Brigade.”

Just after having her dream realized, Cortez is changing stations, though.

“I’ll be going to Fort Irwin, Calif.,” Cortez said. “I’m hoping to take the program, and if they don’t have one, initiate it there.”

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2014 6:30 PM

2014-01-10T18:30:04-05:00

I think they went about it the wrong way, but it is definitely something worth having in a chain of command, along with peer groups, MOS groups, etc. in order to enhance an organization's knowledge, capacity and readiness, but what you described Sir, sounds like a shit show.

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Jan 10 at 2014 6:38 PM

2014-01-10T18:38:28-05:00

Female to female mentorship? My thoughts are when I came in as an e-1 and
17. I was clueless. I look
back, and I needed female mentorship. Believe it or not yes, you need to wear a sports bra.
Yes, you need to ensure that if you chose to wear make-up that you do not see the make-up before the uniform. You need to know how to address an inappropriate conversation before it starts. I just recently had to talk to a Soldier and inform her that she needed to address the dumb blonde comments. What others think are funny early in your career you are shaped by what you allow others to do to you. Yes, you need to be professional and due to the ratio as a young private it can be overwhelming and those senior females should pull them aside and provide them with instruction on how to handle unwanted attention. The female chaplain core is very small, and I welcomed the guidance on how you handle resistance when you are not welcomed. We don't talk about the
elephant in the room and how many trusting naïve female Soldiers to go to (those that abuse their position) male
NCOs and confuse intimacy for acceptance. Talk, time, and together is how you bond, and as a young individual who does not have the concept of their identity of
self, it is easy to get caught in the snare. The military has been a hidden secret of being a surrogate parent for many that didn't have the guidance in their childhood.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2014 6:54 PM

2014-01-10T18:54:04-05:00

After reading this I could not help but think this was some of that DuffleBlog satire. Unfortunately, it isn't and the personnel responsible should probably prepare for the inevitable fallout from this bit of ridiculousness. In my opinion professional development has been ignored over the last 10 years. It is rare to see an LTP on a training schedule these days. Twenty years ago, professional development was a regular occurence across the Army. Regardless of gender, most junior leaders receive little in the way of mentorship from their superiors. The grind of the deployment cycle leaves little room for a sustained and robust professional development program in most units. If you want good leaders you have to build good leaders, regardless of gender.

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Jan 10 at 2014 7:04 PM

2014-01-10T19:04:00-05:00

Chief:

The attrition rate of young female Soldiers who leave the Military due to the toxic work places and the lack of understanding. I was punched in the face in formation back in the
80s. I wish I would have welcomed a female mentor. The sad thing was I didn't have a male or female mentor. I was not wanted there in my
workplace and thank God. I had the tenacity, and fortitude to push through.

I went through hell when I came in 1984, and many of my male counterparts did not take me seriously. Have you thought about the psychological stressors that occur due to the unwanted attention or the inability to be able to address those that are violating boundaries?

On a serious not look at PFC LaVena Johnson would she still be alive if she
had a senior female NCO that would have advised her. This is not a laughing matter, we have
warning signs posted in the barracks.

Our CIC just signed Defense Bill into Law, and women make up approximately 15 percent of the
active-duty force and 20 percent of the reserve components. We are looking at
an overall young force that lacks the
social and relational skills due to. they are members of the
social media generation.

I could address countless issues and situations that I went through the ranks.

http://jezebel.com/5020732/lavena-johnson-murdered-by-her-colleagues-ignored-by-the-army

http://yubanet.com/usa/SWAN-Obama-Signs-Defense-Bill-Into-Law-With-Record-19-Sexual-Violence-Provisions.php#.UtCIcHKA2Wg

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Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 10 at 2014 10:08 PM

2014-01-10T22:08:01-05:00

I am waiting on the class for make that tell us they are insensitive unfair pigs who need to feel bad about our conduct towards females.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 6:02 AM

2014-01-11T06:02:27-05:00

Chief, please say that was a joke Sir.  I'm trying to understand "Divas in boots and males don't take us seriously".  Well I would completely understand why, if WE are being referred to as Divas in boots by the COL and are being mentored on how to apply makeup and sterilize the brushes.  Sounds like an episode of Legally Blonde gone awry...... just please say it ain't so.  With the recent openings of females to combat arms positions, that angle could've worked with them presenting other females from ALL services who are serving or have gone through training to serve in those combat positions.  Talk to me about women's health issues, conducted a women's self defense class, talked about FEAR of REPRISALS with all this SHARP mess going on and definitely conducted a Zumba class if I wanted to "band" us "together".   Make up tips during MANDATORY training is ironic to say the least and perhaps I am missing the BIG picture completely (as I have no idea what all the moving parts were), but from this post, I would've felt like it was a waste of military and personal time.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 11:27 AM

2014-01-11T11:27:20-05:00

Being on Fort Stewart the social media post in question caught my attention. I immediately contacted my wife, an NCO, to find out what exactly the mandatory meeting for females was all about. She kinda ignored the "mandatory" part and just didn't go. She had priority tasks to perform. So I can't independently verify the content of the meeting. So all I can say, is this. On the whole, I don't feel that mentorship can be artificially imposed from above. If forced it will be ridiculed, mocked and actively resisted by those it is intended to help. Commands should encourage it and support it but not try to force it. This might be a case of good intentions that came out wrong in the execution. 

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 12:30 PM

2014-01-11T12:30:20-05:00

This is an interesting thread, with good discussion from participants. The posts do seem to help outline some diverse viewpoints, and as well as the variety of experiences men & women have both experienced in their career. In this specific event mentioned, while the original intent might have actually been positive, the delivery & result were disastrous.

In my opinion, it's best to agree this was a (somewhat huge) mistake, don't let it affect your own personal behavior and move on. Make it useful. If you see it as an example of what not to do, be satisfied you have the right read on the situation that this behavior isn't acceptable. Commit to yourself that you'll speak up if you see something similar. Continuing to support generalizations/stereotypes will only further miscommunication and exacerbate the divisiveness.

Response by CW3 Kim B. made Jan 11 at 2014 6:54 PM

2014-01-11T18:54:21-05:00

Mentoring your Soldiers is the responsibility of all leaders. In 1979, women supposedly needed women mentors; in 1989 we needed them again; in 1999 ..... things should have changed by now! Women have proven themselves as Soldiers! Please stop looking a women as new to the armed forces. Continuing to make women a special group in the military only serves to hold them back. As far as conduct towards females, you should conduct yourself as you would with any other Soldier!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 7:08 PM

2014-01-11T19:08:00-05:00

I have a roommate that needs a bra. But I digress. :)

Response by SFC Lamont Womack made Jan 12 at 2014 6:12 AM

2014-01-12T06:12:48-05:00

I agree with the majority of the responses to the post. I just wanted to address the terms "reverse sexism" and "reverse discrimination". There are no such things. Sexism towards ANY sex is sexism. Discrimination towards ANY group is discrimination. There is no such thing as "reverse". Please avoid using these terms. These terms indirectly create an "us" versus "them" type of thinking and are counterproductive to addressing any issues of discrimination or sexism.

Response by 1SG Jeremy Parkin made Jan 13 at 2014 8:42 AM

2014-01-13T08:42:48-05:00

We have started to do Female mentorship programs and they are geared more in the direction of having the more experienced females help the less experienced females. The intent is to reduce SHARP incidents through awareness. On the flip side I think an male mentor ship is also a good idea any thoughts?

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 17 at 2014 1:29 PM

2014-01-17T13:29:26-05:00

There has been some really great conversation on this thread. Looks like Army Times was a little behind the times and finally posted the story today about this incident. There's a lot of "positive" in the story. Take a read...

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140117/NEWS/301170010/-Divas-boots-Female-mentoring-divides-troops

'Divas in boots' Female mentoring divides troops

Internet outrage is brewing over a female mentorship program at Fort Stewart, Ga., that featured a couponing class and the slogan 'divas in boots.'

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2014 6:46 PM

2014-01-17T18:46:54-05:00

is it wrong that I detest the idea of this mentorship program?  I believe that I mentored male and female Soldiers equally.  I just am having a really hard time wrapping my head around this program.  Hopefully people are going on their own time and volunteered and weren't selected.  I have heard various things about this and because I was not personally there, I don't want to judge.  but the things I have heard, I have yet to like. 

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2014 7:47 PM

2014-01-19T19:47:46-05:00

Females do need mentors, as well as males; all Soldiers (enlisted and officers) need mentoring to improve their ability as a Soldier and to become an effective leader. It is the responsibility of the leaders to give this mentoring. If you are a male and have female Soldiers get into the regulations and know how the uniform is setup, actually help your Soldier setup the uniform, know the regulations on make up, and don't be afraid to talk to female leaders about what a young female Soldier needs to know. To have proper equality for all sex and races you have to get rid of specialty groups or programs catered to one specific group.

Response by LT Jessica Kellogg made Jan 19 at 2014 8:02 PM

2014-01-19T20:02:45-05:00

When I first saw this post, I didn't agree with this "mentorship" but now that I think about it, it seems like they were trying to make a program that would be attractive to young females, and so with the "spa-day" style seminar.

Maybe not the best for publicity, but it may be a good way to connect with young females and allow them to talk to more experienced females.

Personally, there was a while that I was the only female officer at my command. There were times it would have been nice to have a female mentor. Advice about how to get a bun to stay in place all day is not something the males were particularly helpful with...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 3:22 PM

2014-03-22T15:22:42-04:00

Our BN does an event once a month for the females during a work day. Yesterday they went to Kuwait Naval Base here in Kuwait to BBQ, play sprorts and whatever else females do...gossip, ponies, facebook , pillow fights etc... Point is they get to hang out and stuff while we are at work doing the daily grind. Yet if us the males had something similar we would never hear the end of it.

Response by PFC Celeste Quesada made Jun 26 at 2019 11:49 AM

2019-06-26T11:49:08-04:00

This actually reminds me of when our unit held a group wide cencing session for females that lived in the barracks due to the amount of sharp incidents happening. They told us to show up in civilian attire to remove rank so that we could come forward about the issues we were facing with harassment and how to fix it. All chains of command were informed about it to inform us. My NCO actually said "Why would they do an all female cencing session for the barracks? Guys can get sexually harassed too. So much for equal opportunity... " Then my 1Sgt responded "Because the guys aren't being catcalled and abused."

I get where my NCO was coming from but there was serious shit going down with the females and it needed to be addressed.