Females with mustaches?

2014-05-22T08:11:35-04:00

If you've been in long enough, you have seen this at least once. You come across a female, she has a mustache, what do you (or did you) do? I was present as another soldier to observe my 1SG tell her politely to either make it meet regs or to take it off. She lost her mind! I don't know what happened after I left the unit but I dont think his approach/execution was wrong.

This is another "slippery slope" topic. I'm genuinely interested in your responses, in today's ever changing Army, this could become something that occurs more often.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made May 22 at 2014 8:16 AM

2014-05-22T08:16:59-04:00

SSG Ray

There is absolutely no way on God's green earth I would ever bring this up to a woman. I don't care how out of regs it is; I don't care if someone says I don't have a backbone or Im not doing the "right" thing...nope, not going to do it lol.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made May 22 at 2014 8:20 AM

2014-05-22T08:20:41-04:00

After the "leg hair" discussion a while back, I guess it was only a matter of time for this one to come up.
I would not have wanted to be the 1SG that broached this issue with her, but I believe he was correct in doing so. I wasn't there so can't comment on whether his execution was tactful or not, but I would hope that it was.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made May 22 at 2014 8:28 AM

2014-05-22T08:28:32-04:00

I'd a told her, tactfully, in a heartbeat the same as I would any male Soldier....I had to keep mine within regs, by gawd she'll do the same!! :D

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 22 at 2014 8:38 AM

2014-05-22T08:38:26-04:00

I've been in long enough and never witnessed a female with a full-fledged mustache.

How, in today's ever changing Army, could this become something that occurs more often?

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 22 at 2014 8:40 AM

2014-05-22T08:40:06-04:00

Army regulations do not prohibit facial hair for women. All mention of beards and mustaches are expressly directed at males. She is violation of no policy.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 9:04 AM

2014-05-22T09:04:55-04:00

That would be the most awkward conversation ever!

Response by SFC Rich Carey made May 22 at 2014 9:21 AM

2014-05-22T09:21:48-04:00

I am surprised that the other women didn't say something to her in the informal channel. I have observed that women are brutally honest with each other in their own settings.

(Or is it that women are honest about other women that are not in the conversation?)

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 9:30 AM

2014-05-22T09:30:57-04:00

I have seen females with mustaches, but none of them had a mustache big enough to be out of reg.

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made May 22 at 2014 11:29 AM

2014-05-22T11:29:01-04:00

Gooney Goo Goo. And if you laughed at that, then you know exactly what it means and you are old too!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 22 at 2014 12:04 PM

2014-05-22T12:04:51-04:00

Man, are we on this female body hair kick AGAIN?. I find it hilarious to see some of the responses and even more hilarious that this is a serious topic of discussion, but that's what makes RP, RP! IMHO:

1. I haven't the foggiest notion why a woman would intentionally want to maintain a moustache? I know it does occur naturally, and usually very lightly and my observation is that women don't generally like it. I have enough older Italian aunts, so I know the deal.

2. If this is something that a certain female population wants to do then simply add "female" to the existing facial hair reg and call it a day.

This is too damn funny!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 4:50 PM

2014-05-22T16:50:11-04:00

As a platoon sergeant, I actually had a female troop who had to shave daily. Seeing her beside the males doing personal hygiene in the field was something very special!

Response by MSG Sean Milhauser made May 23 at 2014 12:18 PM

2014-05-23T12:18:28-04:00

When I first read your question, I have to admit it seems absurd on the surface, but after more reflection, I have to think there could be that "one soldier" that would try to push the standards, despite most reasonable people thinking "why would a female intentionally grow a mustache?"

Maybe the regulation should be amended to reflect similar standards for all soldiers in regards to this area.

Response by SPC Kara Sport made Jun 20 at 2014 12:26 PM

2014-06-20T12:26:20-04:00

My first though was did this service member have a hormonal issue? I deal with thyroid issues and have a few hairs I need to pluck off my chin but no full mustache...yet.

Response by 1LT Shawn McCarthy made Jun 21 at 2014 6:47 PM

2014-06-21T18:47:55-04:00

We had a female SSG in an accelerated course with a goatee.
After about a week the instructor told her to shave.
It was creep and awkward for all.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2014 5:32 PM

2014-06-22T17:32:40-04:00

Diplomacy is wonderful. Before 'confronting' the female, I'd run it by chain of command and preferably another female. Then I would call her in and give her 'piece of my mind'

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 22 at 2014 5:40 PM

2014-06-22T17:40:55-04:00

If there was another way, I don't know what it was...unless someone hit her on the head with a shovel and make corrections while she in out? This not something I would recommend, but it would be an option...a really bad one?

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 22 at 2014 6:24 PM

2014-06-22T18:24:04-04:00

I have never seen a woman in the military with a Mustache, Maybe a little peach fuzz. Now QM1 in the CINCPACFLTs Briefing Staff smoked a pipe and I thought that was pretty different first and only woman that I ever met that smoked a pipe.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2014 7:37 PM

2014-06-22T19:37:27-04:00

Not gonna lie.... I'm cursed with bad family genes. As I get older, this problem gets worse, but you can make DAMN sure that I don't go out in public if it's noticeable to the point that I am uncomfortable about it. As someone else mentioned, it is also hormonal and it's not easy to deal with :(

I don't shave or wax - I thread, regularly - approximately every 2 weeks. No one would ever know it was a problem.

FYI, check out this link if you have never heard of threading.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why ANY WOMAN with ANY pride would not just take care of it. Have a little bit of self respect and class! I understand not wanting to shave, as she may think that it would grow back thicker. I would be afraid of that too. But surely she'd be smart enough to explore her options.

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Response by PO3 Jordan W. made Jun 22 at 2014 7:53 PM

2014-06-22T19:53:11-04:00

It's not the fact whether or not there is a regulation enforcing female facial hair. It is now that all service members are to be treated as equals. (That's how it is "supposed to be"). So if myself as a male have to keep my face clean shaven then I believe that it is necessary for females to follow the same regulation. If however the female wishes to point out that there is no regulation on this then it is up to myself or another NCO to point out the fact that we are all held to a higher standard, regulation or not.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2014 9:30 PM

2014-06-22T21:30:54-04:00

Never met a woman with a serious mustache. I did meet one female that had enough facial hair that she couldn't get a proper seal on the mask of the A-4 (Oxygen Breathing Device). I took her aside and just let her know - it was her choice; she could shave periodically or she could possibly die from inhalation of superheated air / poisonous air when she was fighting fire onboard ship.

She chose to shave.......

Response by SFC Michael W. made Jun 22 at 2014 10:06 PM

2014-06-22T22:06:18-04:00

If a female is displaying a "mustache" she needs to be directed to properly remove it, especially when there are so many techniques nowadays to help remove facial hair, period.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2014 12:04 AM

2014-06-23T00:04:05-04:00

I have to admit, I do not shave my legs so who am I to complain? lol

Response by SPC Phillip Ludlow made Jun 23 at 2014 12:08 AM

2014-06-23T00:08:01-04:00

http://www.worldwideinterweb.com/item/4004-women-with-mustaches-pictures.html

and um, if it were me, no matter how far outta regs it is ( or may be), i whould't say ANYTHING. nope. nada. zilch. drive on.

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Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Jun 23 at 2014 2:26 AM

2014-06-23T02:26:59-04:00

Actually saw a Gunny inform a female sailor at a school that her facial hair was out of regulations. One of those awkward moments where you don't know how to avoid laughing or joking about it.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 23 at 2014 11:46 AM

2014-06-23T11:46:32-04:00

This discussion made my day. Thank you.

Yes, as you can see by my photo, I wear a mustache. I first grew it in the Army and have removed it only twice (then grew it back immediately). My immediate supervisor, a major, was unhappy when I first grew it. He warned that my men would also grow their own. They did. Most were anemic and shaded them with mascara. A subordinate lieutenant once suggested that I shave it off. The major beamed until the lieutenant finished his thought explaining that I should simply allow my nasal hairs grow long and groom them into a mustache. I could then suck them up whenever the major was nearby.

No, this has nothing to do with a woman with a mustache. Let me be clear, I know it happens. The first girl I dated grew fine facial hair. I didn't know this until I was talking to her on the phone one day. She shrieked and dropped the phone. When she came back, she explained that she had forgotten that she had put Nair on her lip to remove the hairs and forgotten it. Nair would give her a rash if she left it on too long.

So, how would I handle a woman with a mustache? Interesting question. I hope that I would stare or otherwise react. Any woman with the moxy to walk around so adorned, could probably take me down. Other than that, I suppose that there isn't much that could be said or done so long as it was within regs.

Gawd, what a dilemma...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2014 12:27 AM

2014-07-20T00:27:43-04:00

AR 670-1, para 3-2(a)(2)(b) does talk about male facial hair, but not female.

If you go to the same AR to para 3-1(b) it states, "A vital ingredient of the Army’s strength and military effectiveness is the pride and self discipline that American Soldiers bring to their Service through a conservative military image. It is the responsibility of commanders to ensure that military personnel under their command present a neat and soldierly appearance. Therefore, in the absence of specific procedures or guidelines, commanders must determine a Soldier’s compliance with standards in this regulation." Does the last line of the regulation allow a commander to enforce the regulation and require a female Soldier to shave it isn't a "conservative military image"?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 9:36 PM

2014-08-10T21:36:01-04:00

Well, in accordance with AR 670-1, mustache regs do not apply to females lol!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 11:33 AM

2014-11-02T11:33:22-05:00

SSG Ray--True story: Once upon a time I faced one of those awkward moments in a career when this Sgt Major had to require a female NCO to shave. Yes, she was the female version of Beetle Bailey.. It was not a mustache that was the issue--she kept that sucker waxed. Sometimes she waxed in public and it sounded like skinning a catfish. But that's another story. No, it was her very long chin whiskers that became the issue..which she apparently shaved to the point of having a beard and then let it go several days each month. Perhaps male NCOs were afraid of an EEO complaint. Perhaps it was because she'd gone native in Italy... where some of my older female relatives have bird's nests in their armpits. But alas, SGT Lack O'Hygiene had black curly whiskers crawling down her chin like inch long spiders. I mean, you couldn't help but stare at it with wide-eyed wonder and make the sign of the cross. Worse, she smelled like rotting tuna. When I arrived, she also needed a new uniform, soap, deodorant, toothpaste and shall we say, feminine products, which we cheerfully provided through a brave female soldier. Her POV was filled to the brim with empty beer cans indicating another problem. There wasn't even any paint left on on her once black metal pin on stripes so you wondered if her previous NCOs were asleep at the wheel or simply couldn't get past the smell with a gas mask...Since we had a male misfit with similar issues, we gave new meaning to the definition of Equal Opportunity. Both are probably now working at a fast food place nearest you. Let's hope they wash their hands.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 11:39 AM

2014-11-02T11:39:48-05:00

Equal Opportunity doesn't just exist for the beneficial aspects, but for all aspects. If a male has to keep his moustache within regs, a female should as well. Same goes for those females that have peach-fuzz on their cheeks, AKA Mutton Chops. Shave it, wax it, do whatever you need to do.

I don't care how sensitive you are about the subject, fix it or deal with the repercussions.

Response by SSG Jason Cherry made Nov 2 at 2014 12:01 PM

2014-11-02T12:01:29-05:00

I should like to propose this question in response:

What about the gender confused people that may be coming in soon? How will we enforce facial hair then?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 5:07 PM

2014-11-02T17:07:50-05:00

Uhm... I'd just look the other way? if its THAT bad I don't think I have the guts to mention it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 7:38 PM

2014-11-02T19:38:30-05:00

Are we taking about someone flagrantly disregarding regulations, or someone dealing with a medical condition?

If it's the former (which at age 41 I've never seen in this context), I'd definitely address it. If it's the latter, I wouldn't discuss it at all (unless I was a close friend). I don't believe the AR was made to penalize people dealing with medical or hormonal problems, and if it is, here is one officer that would never allow this silliness to occur in his command.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Nov 3 at 2014 1:13 PM

2014-11-03T13:13:33-05:00

The AF Reg says that if it "if it is not authorized or mentioned in this AFI, then it is not authorized for wear" it mentions male facial hair standards but doesn't mention female, so females must not be authorized facial hair.

Response by Cpl Gregory Hajder made Nov 3 at 2014 3:23 PM

2014-11-03T15:23:38-05:00

LOL . You Army guys crack me up....

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Nov 3 at 2014 3:40 PM

2014-11-03T15:40:30-05:00

The mustache visible to the left of this text was directly critiqued by my BN CO on perhaps two occasions. Though I may have personally disagreed, I got the message.

I can to some extent sympathize with the person mentioned, but regs is regs and as far as I can recall the facial hair provisions do not mention gender; I'm not at all sure what your Top could have done better.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 3:53 PM

2014-11-03T15:53:31-05:00

Ladies -n- Gents. For field expedience, may I suggest Duct Tape? Works great. Won't melt. Cheap. Better than wax.
Also removes sand, splinters, shrapnel, bacteria, cammo grease, shoe polish, viruses, and those dreadful dead skins cells that harm one's soldierly complexion. Maybe live ones too. Can also be used as second skin to prevent blisters and sunburn. At least for a while.

Doctor Dan says "Leave it on for a few days to remove warts and unwanted third eyebrows. Simply ignore the stares."

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Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Nov 3 at 2014 4:27 PM

2014-11-03T16:27:40-05:00

Interestingly enough I had to shave my mothers face as the folks at the retirement home would not do it. With age it really starts to get much worse for some reason, not a physician or scientist, have no idea as to why, but this is obviously something I don't want to slip on.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Nov 3 at 2014 6:00 PM

2014-11-03T18:00:51-05:00

Real touchy subject... I know it's not in the AR 670-1 about female facial hair, so he should have been as tactful as he was. If she had a beard, however (and there are some women with beards), he should be just as careful.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 11:58 PM

2014-11-03T23:58:00-05:00

Makes me wonder about the officers and mustache tradition. Should a female officer with a mustache shave it to go along with that tradition?

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Nov 4 at 2014 6:18 AM

2014-11-04T06:18:27-05:00

I solemnly do swear that the testimony I am about to make is 100% factual and as accurate as my hazy memory will allow.

In 1998 I arrived at an MI unit. I had a female soldier in my platoon who had what resembled a little goatee on her chin. It was a subject of conversation on more than a few occasions (naturally out of her earshot), and more than once it was used as a measuring point for males that had forgotten to shave, or were on leave/pass. Despite having talked about it to anyone but her, everyone was uncomfortable with the subject of approaching her and telling her to shave. I think even our BC may have cracked wise about refusing to be the guy to tell her. So nobody wanted to talk to her about it.

Except one guy. I can't remember him but I think every unit has one like him -- that crazy senior NCO who lives in the barracks and has had so many NJPs he becomes like a barracks lawyer. The one you think "God I hope that guy doesn't get drunk" followed by "Which general is his brother?"

This guy walked up to her one day when we were cleaning weapons at a picnic table. He comes up behind her and in his loud "I'm an NCO, hear me roar!" voice says "FIRST PLATOON I LOVE YOU GUYS!" and proceeds to put the soldier in a head lock disguised as a hug. He practically bellows "Especially you, Specialist [insert her last name, long since forgotten]."

Then this guy pulls out his knife, flicks it open, and proceeds to start sawing at the hairs on her chinny-chin-chin. He says to her, and I will never forget this as long as I live, "If I can't have a beard in uniform neither can you!"

The woman never had a beard again. I don't know if it was because she started practicing grooming, or it was one of those things that never grows back once it's gone. I think the senior NCO got another NJP off that one, but I can't be certain, nor could I be certain that his next NJP was for that shaving incident.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 11:09 AM

2014-11-04T11:09:31-05:00

You tagged "AR670-1" and "Standards" in your post. What part of AR670-1 and what standards is she not complying with? Sounds like you have an issue with those. She was meeting regulations. You were forcing her to comply with your interpretation of those regulations.

Response by PO1 Autumn Sandeen made Nov 5 at 2014 12:27 PM

2014-11-05T12:27:26-05:00

Y'know, having the military services provide hair removal services could be considered no more expensive, no more complicated, and no less medically necessary than healthcare services the military provides to service members and their families every day.

Sometimes we say "cosmetic" for treatments that really aren't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 2:09 PM

2014-11-05T14:09:57-05:00

I've seen a female or two with more facial hair than me (I was kind of jealous but that's beside the point). Its one of those things where on one hand you research the reg and it says nothing about females shaving and whatnot, while on the other hand you look at them and say that needs to cleaned up pronto. My thought process is this...if you can shave your legs, pits, unmentionables, and tweez your eyebrows, it wouldn't hurt to do a little landscaping if you look a bit on the manly side. Just my 2 cents.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 8:24 AM

2014-11-06T08:24:23-05:00

SSG Ray shame on her friends for not telling her to take care of her stache. (Girl Code). I once had to talk to a female about hygiene and it didn't turn out too well. I was later accused of harassing her. So I agree with SSG Woods, never again, lol.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Nov 6 at 2014 3:57 PM

2014-11-06T15:57:57-05:00

Humor - This is a nice mustache!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2014 11:47 AM

2014-11-07T11:47:26-05:00

Hmmm, my stuff keeps vanishing, can anyone find mine about the female NCO I told to shave? If you do, cut and paste for me will ya?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2014 6:30 PM

2014-11-07T18:30:13-05:00

I guess I never thought about this as being an issue, does the 'stache look better on her than you, probably wouldn't say anything, but if it's just peach fuzz, then still wouldn't say anything, now if it extends past the corners of her mouth, well, she better familiarize herself with the AR 670-1!

Response by SFC David Brunk made Dec 29 at 2014 1:25 PM

2014-12-29T13:25:39-05:00

Granted, it's been 20 years since I've read AR 670-1 and there's been a lot of changes during that time, but, a mustache is a mustache and should conform to the regulation, or not be worn.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jan 3 at 2016 11:53 AM

2016-01-03T11:53:10-05:00

Be careful of your answer...A transgender is coming soon. OOOH the fun the C.O.C. will have in the field.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2016 12:56 AM

2016-10-10T00:56:04-04:00

There is no instruction that I have seen that governs a female with facial hair. Thus, she is in regs. However, with that being said, I doubt an instruction exists for two reasons. 1. Most females do not or cannot grow facial hair. 2. This is not a common problem.

With that being said, I'd pull her to the side and gently and respectfully explain my concern. That her facial hair, though possibly subtle is being noticed by others and that I am concerned about her appearance. Again, I'd bring up that there is no instruction that governs this, however would advise she take a razor to it.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2016 11:03 AM

2016-10-10T11:03:11-04:00

Um.....I've seen a couple females that had a bit of hair on their upper lips and some on their chin. It's those damn hormone fluctuations. it sucks. I've known a few females who either bleach or just shave it off, some pluck the longer hairs (ouch!). I just think that during a PI and a female were to have hair, that a one-on-one should have been done than just outing her right there in front of everyone. It's different for a male because it's to be expected and it's in uniform regulations. Sometimes a female may not even notice the hair because it blends with a skin tone.....

Regs may go through another change.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 1:16 AM

2019-01-02T01:16:40-05:00

He did the right thing. It’s not a gender requirement it is a facial harp grooming requirement