For C-12 or other fixed wing pilots out there, how is your quality of life?

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:57:51 -0400

Many people here at Rucker have opinions on what it's like to fly fixed wing for the army, none have experience. As I come up to IERW selection I'm am seriously considering fixed wing but some people I have a lot of respect for say think twice, that fixed wing is boring. Please advise, I love the mission and think I would be good at it!

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Oct 11 at 2018 10:06 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 22:06:37 -0400

You already rotor wing?

Response by CPT Nicholas D. made Oct 11 at 2018 11:27 PM

CPT Nicholas D. — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 23:27:23 -0400

To answer your question, the quality of life is excellent in the FW realm. Just as you will find in the RW world, the unit and the mission will have a large impact on the enjoyment-factor. Each Army Aviation platform has unique nuances that make its Pilots love them individually, but as a former H-60 guy, I am happy to share what I love about FW.

1. It’s a comfortable job. You won’t be crawling around the top of a searing piece of metal in the blistering desert heat. There’s no helmets, body armor, or bulky ALSE gear. Usually a Bose Headset, clipboard, iPad, and a coffee cup comprise your gear drag to the aircraft. FW deployments are cushy, and you typically aren’t soaking your uniforms in sweat after a 15 hour duty day. Most Army FW have air conditioning. Some mission sets will even stipulate civilian clothes. It’s a good gig.

2. Flight time comes fast. I was averaging 140-180 a year as a B-hawk Pilot. As a C-26 pilot, I try to stay above 300 for my rolling 12 month total. On deployment, I was able to fly over 300 in 4 months. If total flight time is attractive, you can accumulate it two to three times faster.

3. Next level airmanship. It takes coordination and talent to manipulate the flight controls of a helicopter. The most amazing RW Pilots in the world have a gift when it comes to intuitive hand-eye coordination. Despite the increase work load on moving cyclics, collectives, and pedals... most helicopter operations reside in the VFR realm. From time to time you will fly IFR, but objectively, it is basic IFR. Army FW does just about everything IFR. When the weather is 300-1, most RW Pilots are putting their helmets back in their lockers. FW Pilots are starting the engines, loading the DP into the FMS, and releasing the brakes. FW Pilots are using weather radar to dodge the buildups at 25,000 feet and doing the RNAV GPS approach to LNAV/VNAV DA mins. It is a different level of flying. That comes with an increased knowledge burden, but I can count on one hand how many weather cancellations I have had in an airplane in the last 3 years.

4. The pace is even and everything is procedural. Most Takeoffs and landings in an airplane are uneventful and routine. If you are following the SOP, checklist, and Procedures, it’s easy to get the rhythm down. There are a few different decision factors to consider, but doing everything IFR takes a lot of guess-work out of it. Follow the rules and it is easy to enjoy the best office view on the planet.

5. Doors of opportunity. It won’t take you long to have ATP minimums under your experience belt. The airline industry is in a hiring surge and it is possible to work your way to making hundreds (plural) of thousands of dollars flying for a living. There is no better way to make yourself competitive in the civilian aviation field than military credentials that you were paid to get versus going into massive financial debt.

6. Culture. Most FW units are small and that means a more familiar interaction than one might experience in large conventional Army Aviation units. Some people are highly motivated by Battalion runs, Staff Training Exercises, and gobs of big army games. The FW world is a little more business oriented and serves one purpose... fly airplanes. Whether it’s a VIP/Transport mission or ISR, the mission is flying. That doesn’t mean you don’t get hit with some of the same requirements that all Aviators endure, but the quantity of “out-of-cockpit” activities is noticeably less (in my observation.) Most FW Maintenance is provided by contractors. This adds some levels of contracting bureaucracy, but also means that most providers are motivated to retain the Army’s business. Customer Service is a primary consideration. I have a positive opinion of the support we get.

8. Avionics. If you have the fortune of flying an airplane with advanced avionics (pro-line 21 or better), you will be amazed at how technology makes challenging weather much more manageable. Don’t forget that the weather has killed more Aviators than enemy gunfire ever has. It’s great to be equipped with some of the most technologically advanced systems.

9. The mission. I’m not an ISR guy, and I have heard the word “boring” used to describe flying racetracks in the sky. As a VIP/Transport Pilot, you could find yourself hauling important folks internationally, crossing oceans, banking massive amounts of hotel points, and seeing a significant quantity of the US and Global Airspace. Some repeat destinations are routine, but not a single month goes by where I haven’t flown to a new city I have never been before. Most passengers are friendly and are genuinely grateful for getting them safely to their destination.

10. The Chess game. In an airplane, you are problem solving 100-150-200 miles in front of you. You are moving across the ground twice as fast than your rotary brethren. So an hour from your destination, you are analyzing the weather and getting set up for the approach and landing. It is a mental challenge that you tackle every flight. All Aviation requires a pilot to “stay ahead of the aircraft.” That range ring gets much larger at 250 KTAS at FL240.

These are just a few things that I can share. I loved flying the UH-60. It’s an incredible machine. You can’t go wrong with any aircraft assignment. Each has its benefits and drawbacks. But I will confess that I am very happy with life as an Army FW Pilot.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Oct 12 at 2018 1:22 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:22:52 -0400

I'd wondered if Army had fixed wing, not just rotary, that was interesting, I know nothing about it, I was just obv interested in 5hat aspect and had wondered about it for some time....

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2018 3:51 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 03:51:47 -0400

Personally, I'd never voluntarily fly rotary if fixed was an option. Higher speeds, more hours, fewer weather restrictions, less gear, more airline options on the outside.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Oct 12 at 2018 7:50 AM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 07:50:18 -0400

Jeremy - For those WO/CO grades I used to work with back in the ‘90s, they loved... Different kind of mission obviously - intel collection, and yes, race track, but decent assignments and another thing out of it, a clearance! Our unit used to fly the K models. We had some VIP models on our flight line. As a WO1, you should get plenty of time to transition nicely post retirement to another job - I know one former pilot whom currently flies for an NFL owner. There are some nice assignments all around and possibly some greater benefits to meeting the VIPs career-wise as your name might get tossed around.
And then there is the interrogation factor if you get shot down... Other countries know what we look like and know what to look for on our intelligence planes. Generally speaking, cannot think of the last time an RC was dropped outside of Vietnam, but...
Another positive note - glide time...

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Oct 12 at 2018 9:12 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:12:26 -0400

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Air_Force_Test_Pilot_School

Purely as a thought if you’re a STEM grad you might consider this, or the Navy one, there’s a private one called the Natl Test Pilot Dchool not government it’s private there’s also the UK one at RAF Boscombe Downs and the Grench one called EPNER all US aviation and technical warrants and commissioned in all svcs can compete a civil servant I was under when in got alternate fir this one while USAF that was why he got out of active also submit for USAF AFIT and Naval Postgrad School (NPS) the svc grad schools Armyvwarrants can also compete elaborate on your assocs, Bach, masters, PhD stuff I hear your eagerness for Army fixed wing I merely thought to suggest all that I had a unit CO recommend for NPS while in I was dying to go I couldn’t get it I’m total perm disabled now I have interest in career/educ topics....

U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School - Wikipedia

The U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School (USAF TPS) is the Air Force's advanced flight training school that trains experimental test pilots, flight test engineers, and flight test navigators to carry out tests and evaluations of new aerospace weapon systems[1] and also other aircraft of the U.S. Air Force. This school was established on 9 September 1944 as the Flight Test Training Unit at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (AFB) in Dayton, Ohio.[2]...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2018 9:22 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:22:14 -0400

On the same topic..if anyone could answer...what duty stations would I be looking at if I were to go FW?

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 12 at 2018 11:54 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 11:54:06 -0400

My encounter with Army fixed-wing pilots was during my assignment to US Readiness Command and US Special Forces Command at MacDill AFB, FL (1990s). An Army Flight Detachment was stationed at MacDill to handle transportation for the USREDCOM flag officers. The Air Force units at MacDill were all fighter aircraft at the time (F-16s). The fixed-wing Det was staffed with Warrant Officers. There was one Major, Det Commander, pilot. They flew C-12s. I flew as a passenger with the J3 (Army Major General) a few times to Ft Gordon or Atlanta. The Warrant Officer pilots were very professional and seemed satisfied with their jobs. They did have to be on-call on some weekends and holidays. Otherwise they flew VIPs around the CONUS.

Everything CPT Nicholas D. said about Army fixed-wing flying was true in the Air Force in the 1970s and 1980s. Probably still is. I flew a similar mission as a CT-39 pilot in the 1970s. We flew out of Scott AFB and mostly moved senior officers and a few space-available passengers around the CONUS. Most of our trips were to the Washington DC area. Sometimes we would get an interesting mission such as picking up a famous college football coach and flying him to address the Air War College class at Maxwell AFB and then taking him back home after lunch. We pulled alert duty on the weekend about every six weeks. Our instructor pilots had the biggest challenge because they had to fly copilot for General Officers who were authorized to fly the CT-39. Most of the Generals were excellent pilots and the Instructor Pilots (mostly captains) weren't overly concerned about safety or mission accomplishment.

After I retired, I heard that US Transportation Command and Air Mobility Command took command and control of all operational support aircraft in CONUS. Consequently, Air Force, Army, and Navy aircraft are jointly scheduled and tasked against a requirements list each day. Army C-12s would probably fall under this program. Hopefully it means smarter use of a limited resource. On the other hand, your local Army General may or may not have enough priority to get a ride to WDC on the Army aircraft stationed on his or her installation.