For enlisted college education; should a degree that aligns with the Soldier's current MOS hold more weight for promotion consideration?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 22:31:55 -0400

For context, Army Continuing Education System regulation (AR 621-5) for enlisted career development objectives states:

"Earn an associate degree or complete education goal between the fifth and fifteenth year of service.

Establish a lifelong learning professional and personal plan by seventh year of service and/or complete a bachelor’s degree by twentieth year of service" (2009, para. 2-7a, p. 18).

The regulation doesn't care about the degree focus or major, but my question is: For evaluation and promotion consideration purposes and ceteris paribus, should more consideration weight in the civilian education arena be given to a Soldier who obtains a degree in a field directly relevant to either their current occupational field (if applicable) or general military usage (technical writing, organizational management, etc), versus a degree that is possibly only applicable after the Soldier leaves the military or transfers to a different field?

So for instance, a Human Resources Specialist (42A) Soldier obtains a technology degree in Nuclear Engineering Technology, versus a competing 42A who obtains a business degree in Human Resources Management.

Note: I know some will argue that college education doesn't matter, because it doesn't determine how well a Soldier applies the knowledge or actually leads. I agree. However, the Army clearly has certain goals for a reason, and I wonder if degree concentration focus while in-service should hold weight for promotion consideration. I also understand that degree concentration is irrelevant to first becoming an officer but that in-service degree acquisition and major might matter more.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2019 11:24 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 23:24:30 -0400

This makes sense...so it'll prob never happen. :/

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 23 at 2019 4:02 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 04:02:39 -0400

What you ask is interesting, in multiple levels...purely as an observation, I'd always found that it's generally not easy, or, in many instances, even possible, to do coursework in something one isn't actually working in, for myriad reasons. Chief among those is the simple fact that, as I found many times for me, no supervisor likes allowing those under them to spend time, or money, esp if a course is svc funded, on something not directly related to what a given supervisor actually expects someone under them to do for them day to day. Before my total perm disabikity, I worked under virtually every kind of boss, both active duty, as well as civilian, that walks, crawls, talks, and/or flies, and all, all, regardless of which svc someone is in, are pretty much going to think, and react, in pretty much that same fashion, irrespective of field, or the level of a given subordinate. Now, that being said, there is, good, bad, or indifferent, a certain minimal educational content that any educated mind is expected to be able to manifest, in order to be able to hold intelligent converse with others, that's simply a given, that applies as much to literary, historical, economic, sociologic, and psychological material, as it does to purely technical content needed to actually do a given job, per se. The more technical the area, the more prototypically the focus tends to be in specifics of technical content, whether a given science, engineering, math, physics, comp sci, chem, IT, clinical material, what have you. The purpose of education isn't purely vocational, though that is inextricably part of it, always...the purpose of education is to create a train of associations in the mind, that let one draw conclusions from accumulated fact, ostensibly on a usedul, practical level around suoeriors, oeers, and/or subordinates. And, the only way to accomplish that would be for all.svcs, all, irrespective of rank, irrespective of individual function, to quite simply require education for all svc mbrs, whether they want it, think they want it, think they don't want it, or don't want it...a teenager, or even a 20-something, is simply not old enough to have the intellectual and/or emotional perspective needed to discern, always, practically, what is desirable, and/or necessary for their career, plus, the prevalence of cell phones and video games as distractions only serve to compound that problem...no one can study off a computer screen, that simply isn't possible, and anyone who says it is possible, has zero clue what they're talking about...I've studied virtually just about every serious type of subject matter there is, I know how each of them is to be absorbed, how long each takes to absorb for normal minds, and specific study techniques I've either been taught, or worked out myself for being able to absorb them oroperly...the vast majority of students, I've observed, all too frequently have zero clue as to specific study skills,.and/or the level of.persistence, as well as dilligence, needed to be able to not merely pass a.given exam, on a given topic, but he able to actually retain the information thereafter to be able to hold such intelligent converse as I've described...some have, I've known many who have, I've known an equal fraction, however, who don't...most students done know how to read to study properly, which taxes their patience in seeking to absorb material properly...studying is a technical skill, that needs to be taught, as does reading, esp speed reading, which is absolutely necessary for any serious student to be able to absorb material with sufficient rapidity, to generate the needed train of assiciations...most college kids, I'd also observed,.also typically well their texts after a given semester, to try to save money, instead of developing a proper personal library...I've kept virtually every single set of lecture notes I've ever taken, with perhaps a few very old exceotions...proper students, properly trained minds, should eventually have a personal collection of, I'd guesstimate, sevl thousand texts, as personal reference material...computers have their place, but not as a substitute for the development of the mind, only as a supplement to such development...doing coursework part time while working is a major pain, I did it, for longer than I like to think about sometimes, I loathed the necessity, however, I had no choice, as that was the only way to learn specific topics I needed to absorb for specific tasks...degrees are mere signposts indicating an expected level of educational proficiency as a result of obtaining one...if one looks at the biographies of great military leaders, one typically finds that they all, for the most oart, had a mentor at one point, who was able to captivate the cupidity of their intellects...Gen Eisenhower, e.g., had one, I'd read, while assigned to the Panama Canal Zone...Gen MacArthur had a personal library inherited from his father, and read virtually incessantly, while not working...the svcs publish explicit reading lists, I'd continually get the USAF one while I was in, and spent virtually whole weekends at the installation library where I was...either a mind is going to take education seriously, or it isnt, all one can do is provide the tools, the regulations, the incentives...some minds will take advantage of such opportunities without being forced, others might need, candidly, a kick in the slate to make them do it, however, all, all svc more should, to my way of thinking, absolutely be read to do it, apart from at familial responsibilities, or necessary recreation, for necessary diversion, education is as much a responsibility of svc as marching, saluting, drills, PT, what have you...Gen Pershing went to law school, And Nimitz was an extremely serious scholar, Adm Rickover, whom a friend of mine actually interviewed with, though he decided he didn't want Navy, was known for being virtually superhuman as a student at Annapolis...the best military minds are ALWAYS, AlWAYS, the best educated minds on the pkanet, that's a virtually axiomatic principle of history, it always has been, it always will ne, there are ZERO exceptions to that dogma...those are my thoughts, such as they are, on that topic, for whatever they might be worth, they're obviously my own opinions, certainly, however, I think, also carry more than a fair grain of truth, that's all I'm trying to convey...if any of you have any reactions, I'd be most eager to hear them, of course, as well, many thanks....

Response by MSG Tony Williams made Jun 23 at 2019 2:33 PM

MSG Tony Williams — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:33:10 -0400

With so many younger SMs without degrees, the goal should be to get everyone educated!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 9:06 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:06:37 -0400

Yes, it should. If the Soldier is motivated enough to *EARN* a college degree in the field that their MOS covers, they're making their best effort to make themselves more valuable to the Army. An example: As a 25B SSG, I earned a Master's degree in Software Engineering after already having earned two B.Sc. degrees in Information Systems Management and Computer and Information Science. Why shouldn't that take precedence over another 25B SSG who earned his or her degree in Underwater Basket Weaving?

Response by 1LT Timothy Kahn made Jun 29 at 2019 3:09 AM

1LT Timothy Kahn — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 03:09:23 -0400

Since recent information put forth on this issue, I believe that a person with college education should have a better chance for promotion, if the education benefits them in their current MOS. Also, I believe that a licensed RN (whom the Army usually gives them the rank of SGT/E-5) should abolish that. MANY people do not even know that a person with a ASN has to take the same test that a BSN!!! It proves that both are required to know the exact same education!!! Therefore, since all the services are always undermanned in Nursing, since pay has a wide gap. Thus, why can they make licensed RN’s with a ASN degree Warrant Officers to start as? Just look at the persons & their jobs who are CWO’s!!! The thing that is most humiliating, is that a BSN graduate, will be most likely be trained/orientated by a ASN!! Yet will have to call them sir or Ms. Plus, the fact that for several weeks to months, the BSN will always have to lean on a ASN for support. Then the next thing to happen , is that the BSN will be their superior (and out of spite, 99/100 will give their former trainees a rough time due to their egos!!). At least as a CWO, it will offer some protection against this!!! Now, be honest to yourself, if you had to choose between an ASN, with four years of experience versus a BSN who has just 6 months of training (say you or a loved one is in the ER or ICU) who would you want to take care of you or family member (if you found out this information upon entering the ER or ICU???? I would really appreciate it if all of you out there could respond, so that we can ensure that the health care you receive is the best!!!!!