For those who have experienced UCMJ, how easy or difficult was it for you to bounce back afterwards?

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 06:35:35 -0400

Many service members dread ever being on the receiving end of an Article 15. When I was still in, I could still remember many of my NCOs telling me though that I would be hard pressed to find a good NCO that had never rederived one. I received three actually, over the course of my short career. If you ever received one, how did it affect you and were you able to bounce back from it afterwards?

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Aug 14 at 2017 7:33 AM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:33:58 -0400

That would very much depend on the atmosphere in the Army at the time and the individuals reputation before and after the action. I served with a 1SG that was court-martialed and lost two rockers worked his way all the way back to CSM(D) and retired as a 1SG.

Just to add this simple comment, screwing up and learning from it is how you gain knowledge and experience. If you go through your whole career taking not chances taking the easy safe way around you don't learn as much as you think. Failure is a teaching tool depending one what it is.

Response by SSG DavId Murphy made Aug 14 at 2017 7:53 AM

SSG DavId Murphy — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:53:43 -0400

One other thing to factor in is the type of Article 15. Company grade or field grade

Response by Sgt Jeffrey Fisher made Aug 14 at 2017 8:35 AM

Sgt Jeffrey Fisher — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:35:31 -0400

When they are BS, then it sticks with your psychy for ever.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Aug 14 at 2017 8:44 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:44:33 -0400

As the imposing authority, I can say that it would depend on the rank you carried when you received them. Even a Field Grade Article 15 should stay with your local file if you are E4 and below, so you can screw up pretty good, PCS to a new unit with a clean slate. E5 and above depends on whether the commander files it in the restricted or performance section of your OMPF. E6 and pull Administrative Punish that ends up on your performance fiche would have been hard to overcome when I was still Active/Active Reserve.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 14 at 2017 8:55 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:55:44 -0400

" I could still remember many of my NCOs telling me though that I would be hard pressed to find a good NCO that had never rederived one"

And Id bet they had UCMJ them selfs in their past.

On the other hand, the NCO's I grew up mentoring and training me 1984-2013 it was the careless, the screwups the ones that were gray area in honesty and morality and sometimes when stepping over the line got caught who had UCMJ in thier past.

In 28 years I was never UCMJ'd, but there were two times I acted in a manner I "COULD HAVE" had UCMJ applied, had the CDR and 1SG wanted to..

But, in a whole soldier concept, based on the totality of my actions every day, it was decided since there was no victim (I damaged a vehicle though stubbornness trying to recover it vice waiting on a recovery team , and I "took" a sleeping LT's weapon as it was unsecured and set it on top of the BDE CDRs rifle as he ate chow, to be discovered when they were done ("Hey, CSM, where'd the third rifle come from?") That one was the wrong way to to the right thing and again, no victim...So I learned from the mistake, grew as a Soldier, and the event modified my behavior which is the end goal of UCMJ.

Other Soldiers, other chain of commands, other time periods in the Army, and those might have been Court marshal events not just Art 15.
All that to say, I can see how an Art15 might happen to one SM for an action it would be an ass chewing and don't do that again for another....
But any UCMJ in your record is a mark on the negative side when you compare 10 SM for retention, QMP, UCMJ, selection for promotion or schooling, later in a career a nominative position...and 8 have No UCMJ, and 2 do....only needing 1 SM for the "thing" you compare the WHOLE Soldier, but that whole does include past UCMJ. Like it or not, past ART15 is not a badge of honor ...you screwed up, perhaps learned from it and past is past, but still, made a bad decision.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Aug 14 at 2017 9:23 AM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:23:34 -0400

I received one as an E3 for "Failure to Repair" from my first stateside duty assignment upon returning from Nam. I failed to go to an incoming Chaplains briefing as part of my inprocessing . Hell, I didn't even know what failure to repair was and replied nobody told me to fix shit. Needless to say, I left that unit asap and never looked back and had a wonderful career.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 14 at 2017 9:33 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:33:57 -0400

Times change. My summary courts martial my first year in the Navy popped up when I was up for selection fo E-8/9. I suppose that's why it took 18 years to be promoted to E-9. Just being a wise ass to show a mistake CAN be overcome.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2017 9:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:46:39 -0400

I don't understand why people say you're a good NCO if you've received some type of UCMJ. I've never received any type of UCMJ. I think I'm a good NCO. I understand people make mistakes especially when young. I came in at 22 after I graduated college so maybe I was more mature than some of my peers. I think it just depends on what you got in trouble for honestly. I don't think it means you're a better NCO than those who haven't gotten UCMJ.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Aug 14 at 2017 10:36 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 10:36:02 -0400

When I was with a contingency attached to a group of U.N. troops from New Zealand and Australia , I refused leave the U.N. arm band over the U.S. Flag. I was working the line and gave the grill cook a break to go relieve his self. Then it was my turn .. I went and took care of business and got right back and I hung my jacket and the arm band slipped off.. could of had a little help.. I'm working backing the line and one of the NZ Sgts asked where my Arm band was... it must of slipped off, Sgt... we were too busy to go get it so I kept working and finished serving the meal. Later I'm going back to quarters and a NZ Field Marshal mentioned I didn't have the arm band on. He commandeered some of his NZ troops to escort me back to my Contingency cmdr. and told him to put me on report and he wanted to see the disciplinary report and what action taken. He never asked for a copy, must have forgot Or expected the Cptn to forward it to him.. 3 days later our contingency pulled out.. we were across the aisle from ea. other on the plane.. He addressed me:" SSG. Herrst, remember that disciplinary report?" Yes Sir.. here, wipe your butt or s'thing with it and get rid of it!" I did get rid of in tiny little pieces in the loo of the comfort pallet . Later, the Colonel asked me what happened on the deployment with the Arm band sitrep.. "oh.. we took care of it Sir". That was the last I ever heard of it .. So not even a LOR came out of it, we all were so busy taking care of business, I believe That FM was just trying to make a show of it for posterity's sake. After 6 months I let it slip to the archives of my mind..

Response by SFC James William Bolt [ 40 Yards ] made Aug 14 at 2017 11:09 AM

SFC James William Bolt [ 40 Yards ] — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:09:09 -0400

The worse part was that I had to face my battery commander Captain Tony Stahleski for miss bed check .He gave 30 days and I cleaned mess equipment after 2 months in the field . The hot water was turn off after 2200 hour and I had to clean up in cold water I learn the hard way and was never in trouble for the rest of my time in service

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Aug 14 at 2017 12:12 PM

AA Joseph Moody — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:12:46 -0400

Considering how many kids in bad places, take the first ride out of there they can find, I can see the value in giving them the occasional pass provided they are on the right track and growing.

Now with that being said, there is a time and place for creative EMI, I'm not going to lie, I had to vacuum the parking lot once or twice. I had about the worst childhood a kid could have and it took me a couple years to get my head straight. But you know, I had good leadership and some of them had been there before

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Aug 14 at 2017 12:35 PM

SSgt Holden M. — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:35:26 -0400

It really depends on how the military is when you get one. I remember when I first joined there was an Air Force Chief Master Sergeant E-9 that had a few from when he was going through the ranks. I received one from my first official supervisor and I was her first official troop and I think she was on a major power trip after she got in trouble for telling me I couldn't go to chapel on Sunday during an exercise and the chaplains I was going to help out didn't like her answer. She ended up taking small things that I did and blew them way out of proportion and gave me paperwork for them and it ended up snowballing into an article 15. Luckily her and my senior leadership was there before she started giving me the paperwork and saw how hard working of an individual I was but their hands were tied because of the documentation she piled up. I really had an f#*$ the military attitude after for a little while but she ended up leaving and going to the comm squadron and had some great mentors/senior leadership that rallied around me and helped give me a good performance report after she left and ended up deploying probably about 6 months or more after she left and going on the deployment helped as well.

The funniest part about having the article 15 is when I had to do the re-investigation for my TS at my last base of course I had to put all the information about it into the SF86 and the investigator that came to talk to me about the investigation as we were talking about the article 15 he said man she sounds like she was a real b*#&% and I just said yep she was and he left it at that.

So with all that said I think it really depends on the culture of the military when you receive it and the reasoning behind why you received it. Because I was lucky enough that they helped me so I was able to still re-enlist but if that happened today it would have been the end of my career and never would have been able to re-enlist or anything.

I would also like to add that it's pretty sad in at least today's Air Force that getting any kind of paperwork can make or break an individuals career. I saw way to many people that got paperwork for small stupid crap that didn't really need to get paperwork for and they said f*#$ the military and their paperwork after their 4 year commitment. I think we have lost a lot of great leaders that way if things would have been handled better they would probably have re-enlisted and gone on to do great things.

Response by SGT Shawn Mendoza made Aug 14 at 2017 4:44 PM

SGT Shawn Mendoza — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:44:15 -0400

Its demoralizing, especially if you know you didn't deserve it. It sucks even more if you have to go infront of a POG chain of command and explain why its bullshit and you have 2E-6's, E-5, 2lt, and a CPT all in your corner and the fucken POG SMG and POG Colonel dtill day i wasn't acting like an NCO. Fuck them.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Aug 14 at 2017 4:53 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:53:33 -0400

One of my NCO's told me you weren't a soldier unless you had three of them!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2017 10:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:50:39 -0400

I minded my P's and Q's. I had a wife and three kids. I couldn't afford to lose any money.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Aug 15 at 2017 11:59 AM

SP5 Peter Keane — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:59:21 -0400

The troop on the left may get one for not knowing his medal placement

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made Aug 18 at 2017 6:15 PM

SGT Paul Mackay — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 18:15:18 -0400

I still haven't bounced back after 43 days when I never did anything to start with.