For what reasons should a CW5 stay beyond 30 years of service?

CW5 Andrew J. Foreman — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 16:12:43 -0400

CW5s are allowed to stay to 40 years of Federal service, 30 years of warrant officer service or age 62 (whichever comes first) with an extended pension to 100% base pay at 40 years of federal service. While the average time in grade for CW5 is 5 years the Army did a service retirement board for CW5s. Please provide thoughts why CW5s stay beyond 30 years of service.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 4:19 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 16:19:14 -0400

In the hopes to make CW6?

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jun 14 at 2016 5:03 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:03:26 -0400

Early in my career I had the honor of serving with several Warrant Officers who were in the process of being phased out by the Air Force. This was a huge mistake IMO. Every one of the WOs that I served with were the most dedicated professional people that I ever came across during my time in the AF. I think this was partly because they were proud of their roll in the military. Every WO that I came across years later in Joint assignments still displayed this pride. Yes, the Chiefs took over the old WO slots, but I think the AF lost a lot by eliminating them.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Jun 14 at 2016 5:20 PM

CW4 Guy Butler — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:20:22 -0400

I would have to say "love serving in Military" - CW5 tends to move out of MOS-specific jobs into more generalIst/management positions (and let's face it - most of us went Warrant to continue working in our specific MOS branches).

As far as over 30 goes, got to finish the tasker, don't we?

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 14 at 2016 6:09 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:09:36 -0400

It should be a combination of things. All the vote choices and more, i.e. location, resistance to change maybe, etc. For pension, you're getting 2.5% increase in the annuity based on whatever the base pay is when you retire. So with the typical 1.5% annual pay raise, the math looks better than most. Job security I'd replace with job opportunity. If you don't love the job, you won't love the military. Civilian pay has much more to do with what you can sell of yourself the hiring firm sees as a good investment. And finally, there is security in sticking with what you have known yet be adventurous in other aspects of your life.

I hit the point where I had to retire from Civil Service at 60 because between that, reserve retirement, rolling TSP into commercial, etc., it was the only way to get a pay raise. Besides, I had my fill of working for the Navy. So like everyone else, the true answer is whatever winds your clock.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 14 at 2016 6:41 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:41:27 -0400

Because they like what they do....?

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 8:35 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:35:34 -0400

If a CW5 can legitimately be value added, then let them stay in, they've earned it.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 9:07 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:07:14 -0400

Best one I can name is because he/she wants to.

Response by Sgt John Skibenes made Jun 14 at 2016 9:09 PM

Sgt John Skibenes — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:09:23 -0400

Because literally nothing is expected of them. Also, because they want to clog up the movement for everyone else.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jun 14 at 2016 9:17 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:17:41 -0400

Because he's old, crusty and no one wants to approach him about retiring at 30yrs in fear of getting their head chewed off.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jun 14 at 2016 9:35 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:35:12 -0400

Never Chief. Let others move up and enjoy the W5 position. There are too many W4's being forced to retire due to being a 2nd time non-select due to the lack of available W5 promotion slots.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 10:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:47:19 -0400

Possibly because they have already sacrificed their family and have no reason to go home.

Response by CPL Patrick Brewbaker made Jun 14 at 2016 11:43 PM

CPL Patrick Brewbaker — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 23:43:40 -0400

The best rank in the DOD. In my years in I only met one that was an asshat. In my experience as a rule they were always approachable and gave good advice and leadership.

By the way we called them gunners in the Marine Corps, of course that's back in the day.

Response by SPC Zac Long made Jun 16 at 2016 1:08 AM

SPC Zac Long — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:08:31 -0400

If I was in these shoes, it would depend on if I had been contributing to the TSP and how much was in said TSP.

Response by SMSgt Todd Grebel made Jun 16 at 2016 8:47 AM

SMSgt Todd Grebel — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 08:47:10 -0400

Cause you been in so long, you'll never make it on the outside?

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jun 16 at 2016 10:22 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 10:22:51 -0400

Chief, It really depends on why you serve. Every reason is different and if I could have stayed I would because I loved to serve.

Response by CW5 Leon Ewert made Jun 18 at 2016 9:38 PM

CW5 Leon Ewert — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:38:01 -0400

I served 43 yrs 7 months in the Army, Inactive Reserve and the National Guard and retired as a CW5, but I served 21 yrs 2 months as enlisted before being appointed as a WO1, then served 22 yrs 5 months of which 2yrs years 2 months were as an actual CW5. I don't see why a CW5 should serve over 6 yrs as a W5 regardless of total yrs or service yrs. I was retired because of age and I got the 2 yr extension so I served until age 62, I would have liked to stayed 1 more yr to finish the project I was involved in, but no chance of doing that.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2016 7:24 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 19:24:27 -0400

If your family is financially secure, and you're happy with what you do, and of course the Army still wants you, why not stay past 30?

Response by CWO5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 6:47 AM

CWO5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 06:47:58 -0400

In the Navy its 33 years of service as max for a CWO5. I retired this past May after 32 years. If the Navy allowed 40 years I would have stayed the full time and not have worked after (most likely). I was in the senior billet in my field for 5 years and a 6th year (to reach 33) didn't seem enticing. Thought it wiser to move on since I want to work another 10 or so years. It was an honor to serve for 32 years.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 7:13 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 07:13:44 -0400

I think every situation is different. I'm sure that most stay because enjoy their job. Most Warrant Officers regardless of rank have job satisfaction. I think any person that enjoys their work and get paid as much as a CW5 gets paid and knows that they will receive 100% of their base pay, would stay as long as possible. Prior to the SRB, there was little reason for a CW5 to want to retire. I think it was a mistake to allow CW5s to get the 100% but I don't get angry because they have stuck around and limited the chance for future talent to move up.

Response by CW3 Brian Lund made Jun 21 at 2016 11:06 AM

CW3 Brian Lund — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 11:06:40 -0400

I am a retired W3 in a very small field (670A). We are only authorized one W5. I believe in our case our W5 needs to think about what our field needs to do and grow. Once they no longer want to, can do so or simply want to give the next guy a chance; they should retire. I'm happy to say that my field is fortunate to have leaders like we have and we recognize when we need to get out of the way.
On the other hand, other series have vastly more promotion potential than mine. In that case, if the W5 is capable, does well and enjoys what he/she is doing, then why retire?
There are many factors that need to be accounted for before you retire: money, job and future prospects are the easy ones to think of. From a different perspective, fear is another reason to stay in. If a Soldier has 30 years in service, then they have been serving longer than they have been a civilian; that is all they know.
I got out after 20 years and I will be 40 later this year. I was terrified to get out because of the unknown factors. That's what Warrants are good at... Looking for the unknown and fixing them before they occur. Retirement brings a lot of unknowns and you can make plans. However, from personal experience, the issues I am dealing with are not the ones I planned for.
Leaving service is hard to do, for me at least. The longer you're in, the harder it is to leave. If the Soldier is willing, capable, forward thinking and making his field and his Soldiers better, why retire? if the Soldier can say yes to all of that, there is no reason to retire. If they cannot or hesitate to say yes, they need to leave.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 12:57 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:57:59 -0400

I see no reason why they should. We are in a war fighting bureaucracy where seniority outranks reason. We've all had the senior leader who knows everything because they trained that way as a young soldier. The unit embraces that experience and sometimes it's actually the not the best way to accomplish a mission, yet the unit or senior leader is in the "Army Rut" (do it like we always do it because that's all we know). The army today trains drastically different than it did 15 years ago thanks to recent relevant experience from its junior to mid level leaders. Those PFC's and LT's from 2001 are writing or implementing the doctrine of today. After 30 years in the military, you may know the bureacracy but you're out of touch with the fluid mindset required in modern warfare.

Response by CW5 Ivan Murdock made Jun 29 at 2016 7:28 AM

CW5 Ivan Murdock — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 07:28:09 -0400

It is a great honor to be chosen but they should at the 5 year mark be moving up along the job path or retire - job security and the ability to stay are negatively impacting the COHORT by changing the opportunities for CW4's. They should have upward responsibilities and still meet the PT and job standards that got them there in the first place. If not, it was a fantastic career and that same love of service should apply and let our Army be stronger and promote the next generation

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 7:37 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 07:37:16 -0400

Not if they are holding up the careers of other W4's.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2016 5:22 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 17:22:20 -0400

Warrant officer in medical fields that require liability insurance in Saline Strikers is a reason why many choose to stay military other than that the civilian sector is almost always going to be more lucrative

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2016 9:43 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Aug 2016 09:43:53 -0400

As long as they stay relevant in their field there is no problem with them staying past 30 years.

Response by CW4 James Hoffman made Nov 29 at 2016 7:04 PM

CW4 James Hoffman — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 19:04:13 -0500

Its not a bad job unless you have a job offer you like more. Took a long time to get to where you are and I don't think you'll find a civilian job that will give you the same status you are already at. Wish I would have taken the "5" when it was offered rather than retiring when I did. That was back when the "5" first came out.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2017 8:37 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 20:37:24 -0500

The CW5 should stay as long as their heart is still in the fight.

If their MOS has a civilian specialty equivalent, the CW5 could transition to the civilian business world and still do the same job, but probably make more money doing it.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 24 at 2017 11:44 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:44:33 -0400

"For what reasons should a CW5 stay beyond 30 years of service?"
Your still enjoying what you do.
Your still doing a good job at what is tasked to you.
You still have skills and or knowledge that is used/needed/ required to the units mission.

Response by CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. made Nov 6 at 2017 4:20 PM

CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 16:20:52 -0500

For the LOVE of the JOB!!!!!! Do it because YOU LOVE IT. I spent 33 years in service and only retired because there were no longer any jobs available to that I could get excited about. Retired and found a job with DoD that took me back where I wanted to be, WITH SOLDIERS, at an increase of pay. I LOVED IT and stayed with DoD for another 20 years. 53 years working for "Uncle."

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Nov 13 at 2017 10:17 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:17:09 -0500

If you are still contributing, and your family is willing to stick it out, you derive satisfaction from what you are doing, then I saw stay for 40 and retire outright.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 31 at 2017 2:29 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 14:29:08 -0500

While I never made CW5, I did do 34 years. 10 active the rest Guard. So I would say you either love it, enjoy the people, or just a glutton for punishment. I chose no civilian jobs pays that much, but not in reference to cash or benefits. What it does pay out is in richness of spirit, no civilian will ever know the feeling of going into a unit or Armory and have that since of price, determination, of being something that stretches back to the first colonists. It is something that you can only understand from having lived it. The day you hang that up, you are in a very unique alumni...A family tree that goes back centuries with names Washington, Greene, Revere, York, Murphy, and so many others.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Mar 25 at 2018 5:59 PM

Jerry Rivas — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 17:59:14 -0400

For the killer pay/retirement package?

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Dec 17 at 2018 4:40 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:40:08 -0500

Partner anything after 20 should be because you are having fun and enjoy it. When the service becomes work it's time to punch out.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2019 9:39 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 09:39:23 -0500

Anyone please correct me if I am wrong... for a WO to stay until age 62, that requires a waiver that needs to be submitted, well before the WO nears age 60? Also, a few years ago, I heard rumored that most of these requests to stay until 62 were being denied by HRC.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2019 12:08 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 12:08:10 -0500

Well, simple answer is 'if you love what you are doing, it's not a job.' Your job security is better than anything on the outside, that's for sure.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2023 1:28 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 May 2023 13:28:19 -0400

Pay!!! Get paid!!!!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2023 4:09 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:09:44 -0400

Looks like I'm a bit late to the party on this one

Let’s flip the question: Is it ok for someone to take up a legislatively limited billet for more than 12 years? CW5s are limited by law to no more than 5% of the total authorizations. If someone reaches CW5, they were obviously driven and apparently added value as a CW4. Now that they are a CW5, does that mean that an entire crop of CW4 and CW3s don’t or won’t add value? Of course not. In fact, it is critical to continually allow new blood with more contemporary experience into those top ranks.

I would go one step further: mandated selective retirement boards after 4 years TIG with the stated purpose to see proof of value. If you get to CW5, then you know that you are working at an enterprise level, and should be focused on large movements with lasting effect. This sometimes takes a few years of work. So, by the 4th year as a CW5, you should have something to show for it.

Response by PFC Doyle Hayes made Sep 13 at 2023 10:15 AM

PFC Doyle Hayes — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 10:15:28 -0400

Mentally ill

Response by SP5 Philip McClure made Oct 7 at 2023 12:45 PM

SP5 Philip McClure — Sat, 07 Oct 2023 12:45:57 -0400

You forgot to put nobody has the guts to tell him/her to get the hell out. We're talking a CW5 here folks.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2023 7:57 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Nov 2023 07:57:59 -0500

You didn’t ask about CW5s in the Active Dity or the Reserves/National Guard. I retired last year from the National Guard with over 39 years of service in Aviation. I was a CW5 for 12 of those years.
Our Active Duty counterparts have a basic 3 years at a post “rule” and they move to the next. This has value of broad experience and allows others a chance to learn that vacated job. It also uproots a family every three years. Imagine a teen entering their senior year and time to move. I understand there are clauses and exceptions and hardships and whatnot also to adjust these times. No less, a CW5 after 36 years gets uprooted eventually when settling is getting more important.
In the National Guard, we can “homestead” without relocating for our entire career. Let me add, that doesn’t mean we stay with our original unit the entire time. Eventually, everyone promotes out of their unit and serves with a hire unit. That involves longer drives to drill, getting a hotel or crash pad. In my case, when I became a W5, an airline to Southern California’s day before drill, a rental car, hotel for the whole drill, and an airline back. Came to a point where I banked only one days pay, with the rest covering expenses.
The price of service.
So….let me add, I was National Guard my entire career from a little E1-E5 to WO1-CW5. All California. All Aviation.
I had 9, DD-214s, more then 8 years of title 10 time (active duty while being in the Guard) and was away from my family for over 10 cumulative years.

So why the hell did I continue for 39 years? Because I was appreciated for my vast experience, 12,000 flight hours with 5000 in Chinooks doing just about every mission possible. In my last 9 years, I was one of only 5 people in the Army with my particular skill set and traveled an average of 100 days a year, conducting various training and evaluations in aerial fire fighting, aircraft maintenance, rotor smoothing and tricks of the trade.
Yeah see…I was not a political CW5. The ones that work for senior command as advisors. As a member of the National Guard, I had the honor to stay working at a Flight Facility as a Federal Technician while performing my weekend CW5 job in an aviation Unit. That means I worked with aircraft and the people who maintain them and operate them in real time. NOT from a desk. Thus…all 39 years was real world reality and experience. When I went into theater, I could advise the chain of command on real world realities NOT just what I thought they wanted to hear.

As I approached retirement, I was offered 9 civilian job opportunities I didn’t even apply for.

THAT…is the value of a CW5. The highest officer rank that still can work in their field of technical expertise.

Peace.