Fort Carson Soldier faces possible court martial. Is this too harsh?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 14:58:21 -0400

http://m.gazette.com/fort-carson-soldiers-selfie-could-land-her-2-years-in-prison/article/1515459

Fort Carson soldier's selfie could land her 2 years in prison | gazette.com

Fort Carson leaders launched an investigation into a selfie photo of a soldier posted online with a note that said she was hiding in her car to avoid saluting the flag. The soldier's Instagram image went viral Tuesday, drawing a storm of criticism.Pfc. Tariqka Sheffey, of Fort Carson's 43rd Sustainment Group put the image on her Instagram account with a caption that read, This is me laying back in my car hiding so I don't have to salute the...

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 27 at 2015 2:59 PM

SFC Stephen King — Wed, 27 May 2015 14:59:37 -0400

My initial reaction is no. However, I feel if the Soldier has been properly counseled and has a understanding of her error than it is to harsh. That being said I have to quell my reactions every morning seeing all the Soldiers sit in the respective vehicles in the morning.

BLUF: At reveille and retreat ceremonies, during the raising or lowering of the flag.
officers and enlisted personnel stand at attention and face the music, or the flag if one is present and render a salute.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made May 27 at 2015 3:08 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:08:05 -0400

She brought this on herself and embarrassed the Army by her actions.

If she gets two years confinement (very, very unlikely), she will again have brought it on herself by refusing a lesser form of punishment (Art 15), which will in all probability be offered to her. If she does that, then, no, two years is not too harsh for this idiot.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 27 at 2015 3:08 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:08:26 -0400

Didn't know one had to step out of their vehicle in the Army. Air Force we just have to park and stay inside, and if we're working out outside (PT) we can ignore.

Response by CPT Bob Moore made May 27 at 2015 3:10 PM

CPT Bob Moore — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:10:51 -0400

It doesn't say she is being court martialed, just that she could face court martial and up to two years in prison:

"At worst, the incident could lead to a court martial for insubordination or failure to obey regulations. If convicted for such crimes, a soldier could face up to two years in prison."

Personally, I think a Field Grade article 15 with corrective action like SFC James S. mentioned would be appropriate. Two years in the jail might not teach her much, but saluting the flag twice a day, every day for a month while restricted to base will remind her about what she did each time.

One thing that she chose to do was put her blatant disrespect out there for the world to see. If the crime is seen world wide, you need to be ready for the consequences.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 27 at 2015 3:13 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:13:36 -0400

1SG Private RallyPoint Member IMO no this is not too harsh, stupidity sucks and this "soldier" failed to repair when she chose not to render honors to the flag at Fort Carson. Quite simply, you get what you deserve, and she deserves what she gets,

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made May 27 at 2015 3:24 PM

SGT Anthony Bussing — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:24:16 -0400

who hasnt done this? I know I sure as hell have...however...the difference being...I didnt post it all over facebook...I just lingered inside for an extra minute or two...plus, facebook wasnt even around when I had to worry about this...I think if I could get an article 15 for reading a book on guard post (not walking my post in a military manner blah blah blah) then she should get one as well...Id be ok with that

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made May 27 at 2015 3:24 PM

SSG Richard Reilly — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:24:19 -0400

Had a Soldier that had a Gym profile that got caught by the post commander hiding in his car during the flag detail while I was on leave.

He ended up pulling three months of flag detail.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 3:24 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:24:39 -0400

I personally think she should be punished, But I think a FG Art 15 would suffice. Do I think this will change her attitude? Probably not. I have seen a growing trend lately of disrespecting the flag and this country in general, and I don't think this trend is going away anytime soon. It certainly won't in the Military if we don't draw a line in the sand and make it clear that certain customs and courtesies are expected from our Service Members. If we turn our backs and ignore it, it will only get worse.

Response by SGT David T. made May 27 at 2015 3:28 PM

SGT David T. — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:28:00 -0400

Perhaps I would feel differently if I still wore the uniform, but I don't even think any UCMJ action is appropriate in this case. Assuming that the Soldier otherwise was a good Soldier this should be handled through corrective training. While I do think she was very wrong in her actions, I think this should be handled at the lowest levels. This has gotten blown way out of proportion. We all have seen people ducking the flag and I'd venture a guess that some of us here are guilty of it at one time or another. It does come back to the leadership about teaching their Soldiers about the importance of observing such traditions and make them want to do it with pride.

Response by SGT Robert Hawks made May 27 at 2015 3:32 PM

SGT Robert Hawks — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:32:33 -0400

I would recommend Article 15 not a court martial Company or Field grade on the recommendation of her platoon sergeant.

Response by COL D Zimmer made May 27 at 2015 5:57 PM

COL D Zimmer — Wed, 27 May 2015 17:57:52 -0400

Poor reporting from the Gazette; 2 years in prison for being an idiot is not a likely or reasonably probability. Appropriate punishment for her behavior:

- Failure to follow regulations: Co Grade Art 15, extra duty for 14 days (or she can volunteer for flag detail).

- Lacking self discipline and allowing her laziness to get in the way of dong the right thing,,,,and demonstrating a lack of commitment to her oath, and the flag that represents that oath: Assignment as the Company designated representative to put flags on the tombstones of the nearest VA cemetery for the 4th of July and Veteran's Day Holidays.

- For demonstrating stupidity by flagrantly showcasing all above on public media: Public scorn and derision.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made May 27 at 2015 6:08 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:08:47 -0400

2 years is way to harsh. I know we are held to a higher standard, but these idiots are stepping on the flag, she just ditched rendering honors. Her remarks brought shame to everyone who ever wre a uniform, and for that she needs a field grade and a boot through the goal posts of life. God forbid if she gets 2 years because it will cause an incredible poop storm and she will get some kind of statue after they burn down her home town and raid the pharmacy and liquor stores (.......because of repression). Will I cry if they do throw the book at her? Absolutely NOT.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 27 at 2015 6:12 PM

PFC Tuan Trang — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:12:51 -0400

I think it too harsh, I'll just issues a article 15.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 27 at 2015 6:24 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:24:10 -0400

She had one job; salute the colors. This actually offends me. She does not need to make this a court case run for the US Supreme Court. She would have already served her prison sentence and been released for good behavior when it would see light of day. I conduct flag detail about 4 times a week. I see people leaving while the colors are being taken down the flag pole. I can't stop them because I am conducting fag detail. She made it public with her "selfie" of her hiding in her car. I believe she has some reservations about saluting the colors which are similar to the same idiots are stomping on the colors.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 27 at 2015 6:27 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:27:00 -0400

Her corrective training: conduct flag detail everyday for the next 180 days.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 6:27 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:27:36 -0400

The soldier in question was given NJP last year for the incident that occurred in Feb. of 2014.

http://m.gazette.com/article/1516023

Response by SP5 Jerry Stotler made May 27 at 2015 6:42 PM

SP5 Jerry Stotler — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:42:18 -0400

There is 2 points here that need addressed. First is her intentional disregard for the flag. Obviously she was already outside, maybe just getting into her car or waiting to get out. Either way, she could have gotten out or stayed out and saluted. Second, maybe even worse, is her bragging about it on public social media and letting everyone know what she was doing. Either way, she is already paying the price for her stupidity. Since she likes to let post and let everyone know what she is doing, maybe they should let her "post" a sign around her neck and let her walk past the post flag for 30 minutes a day. After a week or so of that, bet she won't hide anymore or at least won't post about it.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made May 27 at 2015 6:48 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:48:17 -0400

Court Martial might be a little far unless she has a history of infractions. There is however plenty of other, probably more appropriate punishments for the behavior.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made May 27 at 2015 7:55 PM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Wed, 27 May 2015 19:55:41 -0400

A court martial would have been a little overkill, an Ar15 better, flag her,restricted to post, issue her an old school reel type lawnmower to mow the post main parade field

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made May 27 at 2015 8:11 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Wed, 27 May 2015 20:11:13 -0400

Considering that she's not the least bit sorry, I'd say she deserves what punishment is coming to her.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 8:43 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 20:43:19 -0400

There is no way in Hell I would want to be a teen or a young, First-Term Soldier in today's environment where everything is interconnected, the sense of privacy is an alien concept, and their is this insatiable compulsion to share EVERYTHING! Even when you're knowingly screwing up!

PFC Sheffey screwed up; she sandbagged in her car to dodge rendering honors to the Colors at 1700, and then she shared this with the world in an Instagram status update. Poor form? Yes. Poor judgement? Absolutely. Does this rise to the level of a felonious crime, worthy of two years confinement? Hardly! What makes her offense any worse than a small group of Junior Enlisted who purposely linger within their work area until after 1700 to intentionally avoid having to render honors to the colors? I have witnessed that happen once before. The intent was the same, mind you. NCO leadership jumped in with both boots, and that situation was swiftly corrected on the spot! Those Soldiers never tried that one again.

As Soldiers, we are all expendable, it's a risk that we all accept with this profession. But should we all be disposable, subject to the full weight of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and then tossed away like so much spent garbage over an incident such as this? Or is this a case where the concept of corrective training could be applied to assist this young Soldier in turning things around and continuing down the road to a potentially-promising career?

Lastly, given the fact that this incident occurred nearly two years ago but a decision has yet to be made in terms of discipline, I would not want to be in this Soldier's Chain of Command, as it is apparent that there are questions regarding leadership that may soon be brought to the surface in any ensuing investigations springing from a review of this case.

Response by TSgt David Holman made May 27 at 2015 11:12 PM

TSgt David Holman — Wed, 27 May 2015 23:12:20 -0400

Old story, and I would love to know the results of the investigation, however, this seems pretty cut and dry. She is new enough that it could probably be handled with a reduction to E1 and/or administrative discharge

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 12:22 AM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 00:22:22 -0400

The disrespect in this picture shows plenty of reason for this punishment. Its an act you should be proud to do. Not hide from.

Response by SN Earl Robinson made May 28 at 2015 7:57 AM

SN Earl Robinson — Thu, 28 May 2015 07:57:42 -0400

She should be punished with the Army's equivalent of a Captains mast I don't know about court martial. She should also be laughed at for being STUPID enough to put it on social media!

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made May 28 at 2015 9:31 AM

SGT Lawrence Corser — Thu, 28 May 2015 09:31:57 -0400

disrespect is not something to take lightly. especially when they brag about it. dont need this kind of morale killer in the units.

Response by LCpl Justin Cuevas made May 28 at 2015 7:38 PM

LCpl Justin Cuevas — Thu, 28 May 2015 19:38:30 -0400

She will get what is deserved. This is a volunteer military, if you cannot respect and honor the traditions of our military than you should not sign on the dotted line because you have no commitment to the values.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 12:37 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:37:48 -0400

I see it as fair. It's enforcing respect for the flag (with what is going on in todays world its something that is sadly needed), as a service member her actions were ridiculous and she should hold herself to better standards instead of flaunting her disrespect on a social media..now had someone seen this in person and it NOT been posted online for the world to see, there may have been smaller disciplinary actions taken.

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Jun 12 at 2015 12:58 PM

SSG Thomas Brousseau — Fri, 12 Jun 2015 12:58:00 -0400

Not harsh enough. There needs to be an example set in this case.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2015 1:14 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:14:52 -0400

This is all on her and it goes along with something else I see where ever I go and that's some females in the army trying to be cute rather than pull their weight and soldier up.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 13 at 2015 1:55 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 13:55:55 -0400

I believe a court martial and or time in prison is too much penalty for the crime.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2015 1:58 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 13:58:27 -0400

Courts Martial? Yes. NJP or, better yet, counseling? No.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Jul 19 at 2015 12:10 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 00:10:55 -0400

Article 15 and several months of unit level punishment. Every crappy detail that can be imagined. Back in the 80's, we used to build sandbag defense pits, tear them down, and rebuild them. Nothing like a little hard labor to adjust a bad attitude.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2015 12:45 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 00:45:00 -0400

No it is not too harsh. She should have thought about who/what she represents while in uniform.

Response by SGT Douglas Blackwood made Jul 19 at 2015 6:06 PM

SGT Douglas Blackwood — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 18:06:21 -0400

An Art 15 would be appropriate unless her disrespect continues. Then I would support a more serious sentence and BCD.

Response by PO1 Glenn Colby made Oct 13 at 2015 11:14 PM

PO1 Glenn Colby — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:14:36 -0400

Yes on the court martial. The thing that gets these young service members in trouble these days, is they feel the need to post everything they do on social media. Why would you out yourself for being an idiot? I'm not saying I was a perfect sailor, I'm just saying thank god there were no camera phones around when I was in my twenties.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 3:10 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 03:10:48 -0400

I wish I could feel bad for her but even after all the media attention on Soldiers (or anyone for that matter) posting unprofessional content on social media; they still do it.

Response by SSG Lon Watson made Oct 21 at 2015 10:24 PM

SSG Lon Watson — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:24:39 -0400

Isn't this a really old story that got resolved already?

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 29 at 2015 10:04 AM

SPC David S. — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:04:30 -0400

With the attitude she has displayed its probably best for her and the Army that she finds her way out of uniform.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2015 11:30 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:30:07 -0500

That's awesome! I think the military branches need to start doing something about the military members who try to "run away" to avoid paying respects to the very thing/symbol/America that so many others have died for! Leadership needs to Quit ignoring the problem and do something about this - make her an example - not only does she disrespect the US flag, fallen soldiers, etc - she brags about it on Facebook!! 2 Years may not be enough!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2015 2:51 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 14:51:00 -0500

"even pull over and get out of their cars" not sure where it say that in the regs, Come on who on here has not ducked into a building or sat in their car during colors. This should be a pool I bet it would be 100%

Response by PO2 Robert M. made Nov 19 at 2015 12:44 PM

PO2 Robert M. — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 12:44:32 -0500

NO - you are serving the nation and the flag that it represents!
I was ashamed when people "ran" when they heard the "five minute warning" to call to colors.
I was HONORED to snap a salute when I heard our NATIONAL ANTHEM PLAYED!
I was Honored to render honors when I was stationed in the U K to salute to "God Save the Queen", then the United States National Anthem!!!
I still get goose bumps when I hear them played......I embarrass my kids by telling people around me to remove their baseball caps when at a game. But that is just me! I still stand at attention, and I attempt to instill that respect to my children!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 12:59 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 12:59:41 -0500

I think two years would be overkill. The best punishment in my opinion would be to have her there every morning and evening for about a year. Make her do what she wanted to not do.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 3:50 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:50:27 -0500

In my honest opinion, I've done many stupid things as a private. The SM was entitled to her own beliefs and opinions but when the uniform is on, I believe no one is greater than the U.S. Flag. Disrespecting the uniform publicly is unacceptable.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Nov 19 at 2015 9:57 PM

SPC Brian Bay — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:57:39 -0500

Everyone is all up in arms about something that probably every servicemember has done at least once in their career. Yes, it was stupid of her to post it online and the fact that she was disrespectful in the IDGAF comment didn't help anything.

At least she had the decency to stay out of sight and out of mind...until she posted on social media. Her command group should've issued the statement that sent a very clear message "We've handled it in house." without sensationalizing of giving it any of the extra attention that it was intended to seek.

In the world that we live in, being an ass-clown seems to be what gains popularity and attention; examples would include the Lohan's and the Kardashian clan...need I say more? The sad thing here is that so many folks have inserted themselves in the incident and the public "demanding" to know what punishment is being dealt out on an issue that doesn't involve them at all.

She's clearly seeking some attention or else she wouldn't have posted anything, nor would she have prefaced the comment with "keep your comments to yourself." Leave it to the command to handle; who knows, when she submits for promotion, leave, etc, someone who processes those matters might decide to "Hide out" and not get anything done because they don't respect her. Life's kinda funny like that.

It's leadership that blows things out of proportion are the ones that I really used to laugh at. Sure I respected the rank and played the saluting game...especially out in the field, *Snappy salute* followed by "Sniper check Sir".

Speaking of customs and courtesies surrounding the salute; I remember I was walking to the PX with a friend of mine (both lower enlisted at the time) from the parking lot. We passed some LT that had been in the military since breakfast that morning. For whatever reason, we passed and LT felt that my friend's salute was insufficient. He stopped us and began yammering on, giving us our impromptu and unsolicited history lesson. Blah, blah, blah, salute the rank, not the man/woman (gotta be PC here). He took his hat off, placed it on the hood of his car and as "corrective punishment" made my compadre salute the LT's hat 100 times.

I noticed that standing off to the side a few cars back, was a guy that had a certain "look about him" but he was in civilian clothes. I had seen him before but could not put a name with the face. So 97, 98, 99....100; the LT begins to bestow his conclusion upon us when the aforementioned guy walks up to us. He made inquiry about what took place. The LT, still up on his high horse nearly ejaculated about how he exerted his rank and wisdom upon us, be fore asking "Who are you and why is this any of your business?"

The calm and calculated response was, "I'm CPT (name withheld), team leader of ODA (insert number here); you are correct about the customs and courtesies with regard to saluting. HOWEVER, you left out one key piece of information. You see (use of LT's first name only) when a subordinate renders a salute, it is customary for the salute to be returned." he held out his hand to my friend and gestured for his hat, "So all things being relative, I trust that you'll have the same integrity that I heard you speak about and in the interest of setting the example for these fine young soldiers here, that you'll return each one of the salutes that were rendered."

The CPT followed us into the PX and caught up with us inside; we went to salute him but he stopped us, "No need to salute, I'm not in uniform and it's not necessary...call me (first name), I'm off the clock right now. Let me offer a friendly suggestion; when coming to the PX or anywhere near the green army's staff HQ (the flagpole) there's bound to be some dickhead wannabe looking to make himself feel important. When you leave the compound (I was an SF Support guy at the time), be sure you're in civilian clothes."

The point of all of this is that I held that team leader in such high regard because he treated subordinates with respect, dignity and offered good counsel. We knew that he was professional and competent and he knew that we knew. Big dogs don't need to bark and soldiers that act like asses usually have someone in the wings that "corrects" the problem.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 10:36 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:36:56 -0500

Stick her on flag detail and call it a day.

Response by SSG Jeff Binkiewicz made Nov 20 at 2015 6:02 PM

SSG Jeff Binkiewicz — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 18:02:34 -0500

She is a dirt-bag. Punish her.

Response by TSgt AnnaBelle Bryan made Nov 24 at 2015 4:46 PM

TSgt AnnaBelle Bryan — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:46:26 -0500

Are you serious?!? She is no different than every rank I've seen run back into a building. she probably should get extra duty filling sand bags. But not 2 years in prison.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Nov 25 at 2015 7:49 PM

SrA David Steyer — Wed, 25 Nov 2015 19:49:57 -0500

Wasn't she booted a while back?

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 5:00 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 05:00:29 -0500

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I've been ninja punched for far less than that.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Dec 24 at 2015 1:56 PM

SPC Brian Bay — Thu, 24 Dec 2015 13:56:21 -0500

I think that the act itself, under black and white circumstances is disrespectful but in the grand scheme of things it really didn't hurt or affect anyone.

Enter social media. She posted on Facebook what she did and then added the "I don't care, etc, etc." She clearly wanted some attention and choose to flex her female Command Private Major muscle. She essentially issued an open-ended challenge to which the Army responded "Challenge accepted!" and is ready to drop the hammer on her ass.

The aggrivating factors here are her photographic evidence, willful admission and posting on social media. She's getting the attention that she's asked for.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Dec 24 at 2015 2:12 PM

SPC Brian Bay — Thu, 24 Dec 2015 14:12:23 -0500

I wonder if she'll post a "Duck-faced" selfie from the courtroom or while on extra duty?

Response by SSG Paul Ellis made Apr 11 at 2016 4:17 PM

SSG Paul Ellis — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:17:10 -0400

I don't know what the outcome is as a fact. (I've heard she was sentenced to two years.) If so, I'm glad. This little oxygen thief had the wrong attitude to be a soldier. Some may feel this is too harsh a punishment, but it's likely she was offered UCMJ and decided to roll the dice with a court martial. That's on her. Also if she took it that far, then she needed to be made an example of to ensure the other lower enlisted keep their heads on straight.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2016 6:33 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 18:33:29 -0400

If the OOD had caught her, article 15. Since she chose to broadcast her disrespect for the Army and America to the entire planet, I have no sympathy for her. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2021 3:04 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:52 -0400

I remember this, in my experience it would have likely been a field grade article 15 over a courts-martial. Punishment more than likely would have been full spread. So loss of rank, loss of pay, restriction and extra duty, and a reprimand. The reprimand would have more than likely been verbal as you seldomly see written reprimands with article 15's.

After six years with no update online, I would say that's probably what happened and she probably isn't in anymore.