Freedom of religious expression in the military: expanding, or dwindling? A real problem, or alarmist, political rhetoric?

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:49:51 -0400

A predictable cycle has been occurring in recent years. A group cries "violation of the Constitution!" regarding a religious expression of faith by a service member, the unit halts the activity immediately, the story is picked up by the AP, unit then realizes there is no Constitutional violation, freedom of expression is restored. What's going on here? http://www.stripes.com/news/us/navy-tells-lodges-to-put-removed-bibles-back-into-rooms-1.298351

Navy tells lodges to put removed Bibles back into rooms

The Navy on Thursday ordered Gideons bibles returned to Navy lodges and said it is reviewing a decision by the Navy Exchange to remove them from its worldwide network of military hotels.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jun 24 at 2015 1:52 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:52:44 -0400

Keeping it not associated with one religion but not completely secular may be the key, I have had some question my beliefs and well, the comments that were made were disrespectful, especially coming from NCOs.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 2:01 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:01:48 -0400

One incident does not mean there's a cycle of first amendment violations. I looked in vain to find other events with similar circumstances of an expression of religion is limited, then reinstated. Do you know any? Frankly, I'm not sure this one counts.

“That decision and our religious accommodation policies with regard to the placement of religious materials are under review.” Seems like only the activity was reversed temporarily until a decision is made. Saying there is no violation shows a bit of judgement from you, and not from the military.

"What's going on here?" What's going on here is that the only way for a government and its organizations to remain neutral regarding religions is to have absolutely no comment and show no preference. The easiest logistical way to accomplish this is to provide no religious text prior to it being requested by the individual.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 24 at 2015 2:54 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:54:26 -0400

I'd prefer That the role of religion remain static. The proselytizing, and mandatory prayer and prayer breakfasts are both annoying and unfair to those of other faiths and for those with no faith.

Keep your religion private is the best solution.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 3:35 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:35:17 -0400

The one positive in this is the Navy/government isn't paying for the Bibles.
As long as the Navy would allow any holy text to be donated into the rooms, I guess it should be okay.
So, how does everyone feel about having the Torah, Quran, The Book of Mormon, the Satanic Bible, and other holy books all in their room?

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jun 26 at 2015 12:51 AM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 00:51:58 -0400

Maj Jason Ladd, Some groups have taken to pushing their beliefs while other groups have taken to pushing back. Me invite me for a beer or two and we can discuss religion.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jun 26 at 2015 6:01 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:01:40 -0400

Maj Private RallyPoint Member . You need only look through the posts on RP regarding religion, really Christianity, to see the pretty open hostility toward it. George Washington wouldn't recognize the Army he stood up and fought with to secure freedom from Britain and liberty for us all. His chaplain corps would probably collapse in it's tracks.

It seems that in the current military everything is acceptable except open expressions of faith by Christians. I've never seen anything like it. Clearly no one should be compelled to attend events of a religious nature they do not wish to attend but just as clearly those that want to express their faith should be allowed to. If I can express virtually any other personal belief system why not a religious one?

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 15 at 2015 7:17 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:17:32 -0400

21 years in the Navy. I do remember Gideons Bibles being everywhere onboard ship. You would get them in Care Packages but never heard any proselytizing. If you started spouting Religious Rhetoric to any Sailor I know you would have probably ended up like Oscar the Man Overboard Dummy that we use you for Man Overboard Drills. We are Sailors. We Live in Red Light Districts all over the world. We are not Overtly Religious People.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 15 at 2015 8:46 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:46:20 -0400

One can adhere to and even champion the tenets of your faith without simultaneously attempting to convert everyone around you. Just look at Mister Rogers. A very devout Christian who espoused all of the very best teachings in his faith while not once ever saying a word about it.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 15 at 2015 8:47 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:47:18 -0400

This is expanding. Thanks to the 0c police things are getting out of hand

Response by PO2 Peter Klein made Aug 15 at 2015 12:47 PM

PO2 Peter Klein — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:47:44 -0400

How about we keep religion to ourselves for a change. Take the bibles and any other religious materials out of military lodging and exchanges. Freedom of religion means the government is not supposed to advocate or support any religion over another. Freedom from religion is better.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Aug 15 at 2015 12:54 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:54:14 -0400

If you get offended by my bible at work, a bible in a desk drawer, or a cross you see on a steeple of a church, does that make you hateful and a bigot. Those are the same standards Christians are placed under.